Author Topic: Will Christy stay?  (Read 24293 times)

mellinatre

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #45 on: May 09, 2016, 09:05:28 am »
Well I don't think that Christy is so mean spirited to have forced in any way the idea to have a baby with Adam, also they were married and to me it make more sense the idea that at some point they have started to want to try to have a baby..... and usually if one is totally against having babies it is usually a talk that occurred before people get married to make sure that you want the same things before this kind of commitment

I understand that Christy is not a loved character but I also feel like it is like a little too much to make everything that have happened when she was Adam's wife her foult...probably Adam should have also take more time to understand if she was the right woman for him before proposing

And last but not least no one will ever be able to persuade me to think that a woman like Christy could be so self-disctuctive to put herself trought the heartheache of multiple misscarriages only to have another tool over Adam's  (quite frankly I don't think that she have ever needed something other then herself to make Adam do what she wanted...every time that it is discussed in the books it is also explained that her looks, frigility and figure was more than enough to make 98% pack want to protect and help her in anything)

I also feel kind of unfair to point out the marriage problems as the reason that had made Adam think to not want more babies...I think that it could be actually understandable that also for the husband and father is painful to lost baby after baby....just like it was for Sam....knowing that the chances to have a baby are so low is for me a reason enough to stop want to try to have babies in the first place

pondhawk

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #46 on: May 09, 2016, 10:07:21 am »
I am just going to point out here, wrt precautions, that no contraceptive method (except abstinence, which is not always possible) is 100% effective, and that if you are one of the 1 to 2 or 10 or whatever (depending upon the method) per cent that gets pregnant due to contraceptive failure, you are still 100% pregnant. This can happen without either partner intending it, I'm here to tell you, and so could a lot of other women. Thus endeth the PSA.

mellinatre

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #47 on: May 09, 2016, 12:16:29 pm »
pondhawk you are perfectly right ^__^

I am not sure that with an 18 y.o. fiancè Adam would have put Christy in the position to lose a child so young, I think more in character for him to have actually wait after their marriege to get intimate and that because he grow up in an era (the '50s) where it was still the "right thing to do" to wait till the 1st night of marriage to have sex

most importantly I think that a person like him would have waited to make quite clear and explain well to Christy how high were the possibilities to miscarriage for them


Kristenann

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #48 on: May 09, 2016, 02:21:32 pm »
I don't think Christy would have to use much force for anything to get her way, but after she wished Mercy dead while she lay in the hospital, abandoning her child for days, sleeping with her best friends husband, and verbally abusing Adam I think she is nearly mean spirited enough for a lot of things. I don't think marriage problems is the reason Adam didn't want to have any more children, i agree with Jesse when she told Mercy it was just as hard on Adam as it was on Christy to lose their babies, though her mom enjoyed tossing that pain Adam. I really  don't remember how long it was Samuel tried to have surviving children until he gave up at least until Mercy. And like Mercy said Adam is an adult a grown man if he didn't want to do as Christy says he shouldn't no one can make him if he does part of the responsibility is on him, and yea he picked and wanted a woman just like Christy.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 02:23:26 pm by Kristenann »

Kristenann

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #49 on: May 09, 2016, 02:32:12 pm »
I can't see Christy staying gone though, I wonder if we'll see her come back from the Bahamas or just hear about the move, and if she'll spread any information she's learned from Mercy, Adam, and the pack to enemies?

pondhawk

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #50 on: May 09, 2016, 03:48:02 pm »
pondhawk you are perfectly right ^__^

I am not sure that with an 18 y.o. fiancè Adam would have put Christy in the position to lose a child so young, I think more in character for him to have actually wait after their marriege to get intimate and that because he grow up in an era (the '50s) where it was still the "right thing to do" to wait till the 1st night of marriage to have sex

most importantly I think that a person like him would have waited to make quite clear and explain well to Christy how high were the possibilities to miscarriage for them

I think you are probably right about that. Actually I think you were probably right about most of your previous post as well. Many women love to hate on other women, and don't want to take a closer look at the part that men play in their own lives, particularly if they have a crush on those men themselves. So you have the pack taking sides, picking whether to hate Christy or Mercy, ignoring whatever doesn't fit their preconceived notions of how each of those women behaves. And you have posters doing exactly the same thing, I'm sorry to say.

I want to clarify that last sentence. Ms. Briggs writes complicated characters. They nearly always have some redeeming feature about them, if you look hard enough for it. You may say that it doesn't matter if readers are unfair to fictional characters, and that is true. But I worry that readers who refuse to see any good in fictional characters may do the same with real people in real life. And that is a real problem in the world, always has been, and will continue to be if we don't challenge ourselves to do differently. Fictional characters are easier to practice this on than people we actually know, because we don't have to deal with them personally.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 04:16:32 pm by pondhawk »

Kristenann

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #51 on: May 09, 2016, 04:12:59 pm »
I think that most of the pack members that took Christy's side for the most part, are also the ones who still don't believe Mercy should be the alphas mate or in the pack because she is a coyote, also may be the same ones who had issues with Warren joining the pack, a long with several other changes Mercy has in many ways brought to them, and that is another reason they don't like Mercy, because of the way's she has changed and influenced their pack that they didn't agree with, so I don't think they just hated or disliked Mercy because they preferred Christy.

 There aren't many female werewolves in the pack and two of them are/were mated, Honey eventually understanding an appreciating Mercy, there leaves Mary Jo and I think we found out from Silver Borne that yes she had a major crush of Adam that motivated many of her actions, along with her agreeing Mercy the mechanic who isn't fancy or beautiful or any of the things Mary Jo pictured and thought would be good enough for Adam, she also was one of the Warren haters too. I also think it's safe to say Adam waited until him and Christy were married to try and conceive a child. As far as anything I've said about Christy goes, it isn't about "preconceived notions" of how a woman behaves, it's based off everything we've seen and heard from her character throughout the series from the character herself and others, it has very little to do with her being Adam's ex wife and more to do with who she is as a person that I base any judgements of what I think she "would" or "wouldn't do off of, just as I would when it comes to Mercy and things she would or wouldn't do. Most of my specualtions on characters come directly from behaviors they have exhibited in the past, using information given from the series to make assumptions. Actually all my notions have less to do with the gender of the subject and more to do with the person they are.

I can only speak for myself on this obviously, but when it comes to Christy none of the things I said was an omission that I refuse to see any good in her, the thought isn't deliberate I am only collecting the information I have on hand from the series itself to make a decision on. So it isn't that I'm stubbornly refusing to see something, a goodness a light shining through, for me it's just that is hasn't been written yet, but when it is I won't be hard pressed to admit it. Also because I feel a certain way about a fictional character in one particular series because of the way she's written that I've expressed, doesn't mean I bring a harsh refusual to see good in everyone or anyone in the real world. In fact in this series alone I can see a certain goodness in Marisila who enlisted Mercy's aid in stopping a greater vamp even from gaining more power and control among other things, and Wulfe who could of attacked Mercy in that same battle while she was distracted, but chose not too, because that's the way those things were written, again this is just me. It also for me, isn't about challenging myself differently, or differences in general, I practice that in everyday life, I understand differences and for the most part I meet a lot of people who are in many ways different from and in some instances "think outside the box" and I don't react in any way negatively it can be something very positive. Mercy herself as well as Adam responded to some of Christy's actions, as not just being different from something they would do but were morally wrong, Adam is a man who still believes in right and wrong not just responds badly because he's not challenging himself differently, and that has been my response to this particular character, can something be wrong or is it all just different. Adam and Mercy seem to think some things are, or maybe they need to be more open minded.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 05:04:28 pm by Kristenann »

pondhawk

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #52 on: May 09, 2016, 05:04:49 pm »
Your reply was posted before my edit above was finished, and the board did not warn me to refresh. You may well be right about people choosing Christy because they don't like Mercy. And your speculation is certainly based on what we've seen and heard from her character and Mercy's. But think about what I said about complicated characters. You can look at Christy and see past her self-inflicted wounds to her insecurities.

The part that gives me pause is that when posters refuse to use any compassion whatsoever in judging and predicting Christy's, or Leah's, actions. That does not reflect on Christy or Leah; it reflects on the poster. We are responsible for our own judgements and actions. We judge and treat others the way we do because of who we are, not because of who they are.

Mercy meets Christy in the moment: When Christy is behaving herself, more or less, Mercy is civil to her, even when Christy is getting on her last nerve. When Christy crosses the line, Mercy puts her in her place. Mercy holds the moral high ground because she acts according to her moral principles. She has no illusions about Christy, but she does attempt to view and treat her with compassion. You can dislike someone quite a lot, and they can dislike you, and still do this.

I am perhaps a little sensitive to this because my mother is a psychotic narcissist. I have had to protect myself and my kids from her by not letting her close enough to do any real damage to us. But if I fixated that part of her, and refused to acknowledge when she is behaving positively, that negative energy would make my own family miserable. We meet her in the moment and practice compassion to make life better for ourselves, not just for her.

It comes down to what kind of person you want to be. Do you want to hold onto all that negative energy of hatred against Christy, and possibly against real people, or do you want to have the kind of positive energy around you that Mercy holds onto by practicing compassion? Compassion doesn't make Mercy or anyone else a pushover. It can be hard to practice, sometimes more so than others, but the positive energy ultimately it makes life happier for everyone in the vicinity.

Kristenann

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #53 on: May 09, 2016, 05:37:16 pm »
I can see some insecurities in Christy and I do have understanding of her position and the life she's chosen. Adam would seemingly be her first real relationship (in the intimate sense) she was young, got married, and surprise! She learns her husband in a werewolf and the picture perfect family (she may have) envisioned no matter how Adam might have hidden what he is from her to sustain that image, isn't quite right. Her husband also is an alpha she learns, and is not only responsible for her and their family, but this other family his own pack that is growing, and the thought of these adults being his somewhat other "children" might put a psychological strain on her, especially when she's had trouble growing her family to a more ideal human version of things.

 All this and it still has to really chive her that while she ages even beautifully her husband will remain young, big button pusher. And for the way she has been acting since she's left Adam, seems to be almost like a young girl on spring break, she has the funds to go and do whatever she wants, no financial worry, no family boxing her in, and because of her looks in particular can get any man she wants, and does, it nearly seems like sometime she doesn't know what to do, she's  just out there with no more real path, after being a wife and mother for so long. I can understand all this but I don't find it as an excuse or a rational treatment of others, nor to me does it excuse her for it.

I can understand Leah mated and marrying Bran for the power, prestige, and position it gives her an her thinking this is all she'll want or need when Bran explains to her that it isn't love match and he'll never love her. I can understand how later down the line that might not suit an irritate or hurt her because she want's the love an more attention it goes with too. I understand her anger and resentment of Charles, and his mother because Bran loved her so much. But it still doesn't excuse her for trying to kill Mercy as a child (because she's not mooncalled and may be able to carry werewolf/shifter child), or how she uses that power to hurt and intimidate others just because she can, like Sage, and Anna (who was badly abused and just had gotten to Aspen Creek).I can have empathy in certain situations and compassion, but I still believe it's possible to do bad things due to being a bad person, Christy or Leah hurting something and watching them in pain and no caring, but taking an active enjoyment of it because they have the ability to, whatever their other issues are.

 Also part of reading fictional stories, is loving and hating a certain character, with reasons given by the writer it's just realistic, and sometimes for their own purposes as a reader they lead you there, reading a part of the book and going"Ooh he/she just did something so evil I hope they get what comes to them, I hope there is justice!"I wouldn't say I carry this negative energy and hatred with me throughout my everyday life, this just isn't practical, the point of reading a favorite book is to get away from reality a bit, relax, and enjoy, not get all worked up an angry I take it out on people in my personal life, and part of enjoying the series in knowing something will or will no happen that does or doesn't happen in real life. Like the good guys always triumph over evil, and the bad guys always lose, because that too in real life isn't the case. Loving or hating, and discussing that about a character has nothing to do with the person I am an want to be. I mean Mercy thought it was horrible for Stefan's maker to betray them an torture his people, and him for her own purposes, I thought that was pretty bad too....didn't think too hard what that makes me or has to say about the person I am. Mercy kept her head up because she loved Adam more then her dislike of Christy, she didn't want to make anything harder on her step daughter, or rock the boat more with the pack then she could help, I didn't have to worry about that when I comment on how many of the things Christy did was morally wrong or cruel, I'm not married to Adam and have no wolf pack. Now I guess comparing that to real life if I knew a woman who ran away on occasions with men leaving her little girl to fend for herself for days without telling her or anyone else, well yea I probably would still think that was wrong, so I guess faulting Christy for a certain course or repeated action without any indication of empathy or guilt from this "person" because they were more concerned with fulfilling their own enjoyment less for their child when there were so many other things they could of done "right" things, might make me as a person less compassionate for them, because I'd be more compassionate an concerned for the child, I too have a certain sensitively towards anything that involves children.

Christy would make a lot more sense to me if it turned out she has some small diluted fae blood, if there was some other driving force for her nature, that only recently for whatever reason truly decided to surface. I believe we haven't heard anything about Christys origins or her parents?

So many other things define who you are, and what you want to be then the books you read, or whether you hate/dislike love/like characters in a fictional series. It's just me but I don't think this is considered to be a defining factor not liking Christy so automatic negative energy, not being positive an caring positive energy around so not being a happy person just like Mercy Thompson but being a miserable one like e Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. I'm still not happy with the fae responsible for the death of the walking stick. Sometimes we are able to have opinions and feelings about a story, and leave those feelings to the story. October Daye series that I've followed and invested in, along with the characters, I found it to be really upsetting on the main characters part when she felt betrayed and hurt by someone close to her, and when she had to give up her human child. I felt as a reader allowed and even entitiled to have not so happy, positive feelings on the subject an at the time, without realizing this might not give me positive feelings when I go to work but bad mojo all day, and what that would say about me as a person? It's human nature to be allowed to express feelings on a subject or character, that's the fun of it (especially when they aren't real, not having to think about meeting someone JUST like one of the charaters in real like and not being compassionate to them) what does it say about the writers to write the characters in that way, and what kind of person they are when they say something like "all vampires are evil" in their fictional world.

Part of the problem with the world today in part an be shortened down to some people expressing their opinions and defining themselves as a compassionate, positive person, but when someone else does it and it's different from there's then it is not compassionate, negative, probably means they have an unhappier life leaving unhappier people form those involved, and hey what's that say about you, the person you are, "what's wrong with you, well I'll tell ya, you're not thinking like me".  Well hey if you think what that character in the werewolf book did was morally wrong, or evil...you might treat others in the real world badly because you think the same thing about them. I find it neither compassionate or kind to judge who someone is because of their comments regarding what an author wrote about a character in their book that did bad things, and was overall nasty to a lot of characters involved.  I didn't write it, I'm just commenting about it, and how Christy hasn't done or said anything to be portrayed as a nice person, I guess that makes me not a nice person because of my negative and different opinion. I could go on about how I love Asil, Bran, Samuel and Stefan because of things they've said and done if that would carry with me and balance out my positive energy.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 06:48:40 pm by Kristenann »

Kristenann

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2016, 05:12:22 am »
Also I agree as adults we are responsible for our own actions, so are the people who commit crimes or express morally wrong behaviors an actions for it, an yea people judge an are judged for it. Like Christy's bf  who climbed into her child's bed, now as a person making comments and judgments on something like that I think they should be, I guess it says something about me an less about the character who would do that. Sometimes the judgement an treatment of others is in accordance with things they've done an who they are. Like Christy verbally abusing Adam in public,  don't do it if you don't want to be judged for it, but it only says something about Mercy making assumptions at the time, an not Christy for making that choice and trying to hurt someone.

Patti L.

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2016, 05:47:01 am »
Wow.  Turn things on their head.
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mellinatre

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2016, 06:02:30 am »
I think that the best thing about Patricia Briggs books is how real the characters feels, so much so that we discuss about them, think about dialogues, re-read just to get the all picture.

For me Christy is not mean per se, oh don't get me wrong she can and is totally aweful when she want the revange that she feel she need, but in her daily life she is not simply and solely a mean person.

I think more of her problems are based on the fact that she act and think like a teenager still, and an often afraid and unsure teenage at that.

I feel like Christy have found herself in a situation bigger than she thought, not unlike a lot of 18 y.o. actually that married young thinking to have all sorted out and year after year discovered that they are ill equipped to deal with things....she knew about Adam's being a werewolf (I simply can't think otherwise because we are talking about Adam) and thought to be able to deal with it but simply she wasn't and to take back some power to a situation that she wasn't able to handle she have started or incriesed a mannerism that make her quite frankly annoying, but that have worked so well with a house full of werewolves...be the madamoiselle in distress have suited her and the pack well and is what have give her a way to deal with all werewolves stuff.

For me it can also totally be that at the start her way of doing things was actually and strangely enough useful for the pack, like she made them feel appriciated and less monsters, as we know a lot of Adam's wolves feel like monsters.
So for how I see things it could be that the addittion of Christy was like a balm for all them to feel like they were needed and the odd things that come with being a werewolves where also kinda like useful if they could be strong enough to help and protect Christy first and her and Jesse later. Like the pack as a all could do goods things so they as individuals could feel something other than shame for their instincts.
Well things later have gone wrong but maybe all her way to act and interact was not a bad starting point.

And I am talking about the bigger picture not only her relationship with Adam or Mercy.

I don't think Christy is actually spiteful enough to put in danger the pack, Adam or Jesse's on porpose but I think her naive or uncareful enough to do so without actually ment it like it happened with the vulcano god...I also think that a lot of the troubles she have and could bring to the pack in the future are more a kind of Murphy's Law jocke on her...like she crave to make a statment about her freedom so much (just like a teenager in the middle of his rebellious years) and she want to be reassured about herself so deeply (insicurities in their highest place) that she end up making silly mistakes that can lead to very bad situations...like with the god, the way I saw it is that she wanted to reassured herself that she was still attractive enough so she slept with a young, harmless enough guy (harmless because her friends knew him), to be more interesting she talked about Adam's status and when she was faced with the reality that the young guy was much more than human she was scared enough to run...and she assumed that a pack of werewolves were enough to deal with the fallout....she wasn't actually mean only very very naive and so uncareful that she have dealt with the all situation only assuming that there are not scarier things in her world than werewolves
All this to me is the way to act of a very young person, a teenager that assume to have all the right answers in his hands and don't take in account that "whatever can go wrong, will go wrong."

So yeah I don't think that Christy will be able to go creating worrisome troubles just because she want to distroy Adam's or the pack for me she is not mean enough for that, but I don't take out of the table the idea that she could do stupid things that one way or another can lead them to face another problem just as powerful as the vulcano god.

Like with Leah character I think that maybe there is more about her childhood or background that could explain better her actions and I would like to know more about them just to see how Patricia Briggs have created them in her head. I wouldn't mind a short story that explain them better because I find them frustating but also fascinating....and call me crazy but I think that I will miss Christy if she disappeared from now on, as much as I also like to point out her shortcomings I feel like her presence make things interesting and funny enough to let me enjoy her scenes.

I have to admit that I laugh a lot thinking that Mercy is so out of Christy league that see them "fighting" is like watch a baby that slap her mother leg during a temper tantrum....so yep I enjoy the funny situations that her presence have created till now...and I can also add that not all have lead to bad things...like for me that Adam have finally take a position about Mercy in front of the pack was pushed also by what have transpired after Christy permanent presence.

mellinatre

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2016, 07:20:49 am »
Kristenann yeah I hear what you say about that boyfriend of Chrisy that tryed to climb in bed with Jesse.

Yeah we all have our hard no-no, and that no matter what I will not compromise about mine...like I think all the alphas that can't be trusted with the care of a young female wolf should have been already taken down because they actually not only don't deserve their status but clearly do not deserve also to live.

I think that that "incident" was one more thing that is eating Christy out also if we haven't ever read about that by a prospective that put us readers in the know about how Christy delt with it...but as a human bieng I can't think that that is an event that is so easily dismissed by any parent, let alone one like Christy that for a lot of years was in the habit to tell her problems and have them fixed by somebody else.
The saddest thing is that also in reality child are always abused by someone that their parents trust (a very close friend of the family, a teacher, a doctor, a family member etc)

Talking about the books in general
If I have to tell the true is very rare for me to come to hate 100% a character in Patricia Briggs books, oh there are people that I was more than happy to so die but talking about the characters that have a sort of a more frequent presence in the books I find myself always thinking that they are not all around bad....and that after the years have translated also in a kind of wariness to think the good guys as saints, like I think totally possible in the future to read that Stefano have done something horrible in a long lost past that can make me like him less or read something horrible about Wolfie past that could make me think like I get how he has become so creepy and that he is not so bad after all

I have already had changes of minds about her characters in the past like Ben, and I think that Patricia Briggs writing lead to a so tridimensional characthers that it will be quite daft of me to think them only as good or bad...a lot of grey is always to be expected...and I simply love that
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 07:25:48 am by mellinatre »

pondhawk

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Re: Will Christy stay?
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2016, 05:46:18 am »
That is what I like about these characters too, that we can find all sorts of tidbits to discuss, precisely because they're not written to be all one way. I have to admit that Christy would be someone I would avoid as much as possible in real life, because she lacks maturity. I'm around kids every day, and it's fine with me when they act their age, because I'm in gear to deal with that. When the same behavior comes from a so-called adult, I sometimes have a hard time switching gears to deal with it appropriately, unless I know them well enough to expect it. And when I know them that well, I usually have enough context to understand why they are that way.

Adam likes to take care of people. If they married when she was young, Adam may have taken on some things that Christy could have handled herself if she were on her own. Had she done that, those things might have been growth opportunities for her. Her sheltered existence within the pack may in fact have stunted her emotional growth. That would not be something anyone intended to happen, and it could be an explanation while not being necessarily an excuse.