Author Topic: [A&O #3] Fair Game Discussion  (Read 95324 times)

Temari

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #120 on: March 11, 2012, 04:02:05 am »
I wondered if Beauclaire's daughter would be allowed on a reservation, since she's basically human even if she has his blood. If she didn't, she might well be in danger from any number of sources - people who still think she's fae, people getting at her father, people thinking it's all her fault.

I think it'd be very difficult for any half-fae or low power fae who were 'out' (or at least known to the government) but generally better off away from their own kind.

I wonder if the fae can 'lose' that list that Cantrip had?

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:10:08 pm by Elle »

Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #121 on: March 11, 2012, 05:58:23 am »
I had another "I wonder." - besides partial of the same thing you asked, Temari.
I wonder if Anna & her wolf are better in communication now?  It's revealed that Brother Wolf thinks of communication using words as "baby talk".  Anna had only been a werewolf for three years when they met, and she wasn't taught much of anything during that time.  Maybe that's why Anna's wolf only seemed to speak in single words when she 'took over' Anna's body?  Do you suppose she can talk in longer sentences now?  Or is it a matter of it being like literal baby talk; using very simple words or phrases to get the basics voiced by the youngster, as first step in learning to make complete sentences, and the "this scent, this position of ears, head, tail, means thus and so" is so much more complex than mere words that any verbal type speech is always going to be 'baby talk' to a werewolf?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:10:19 pm by Elle »
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Temari

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #122 on: March 11, 2012, 11:47:57 am »
I got the idea that, in general, using mere words was baby talk for wolves. In all the books, Anna's wolf always seemed to me to be pretty confident in herself, unlike Anna.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:10:39 pm by Elle »

Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #123 on: March 11, 2012, 11:57:15 am »
Maybe I'm over cautious with the spoiler bars, but I'd rather be safe than make someone sorry.

You're a mom, you probably know far better than I do, how  much trouble a three to five year old can get themselves into, confidently.  And that young a wolf might or might not be able to draw on the human persona's vocabulary.  I don't know.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:10:52 pm by Elle »
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Temari

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #124 on: March 11, 2012, 01:31:10 pm »
Makes sense.

That's true, a 3-4 yr old is often very confident "I'm much better at this than you, mum.". They also can have a large vocabulary, even if they may use it in ways that an adult might find a little unexpected. "The rain is vigorous today."  :)

Youth on its own might well be a good reason for why her wolf is so confident - it just sees things simply, as a child. Young children also don't have as much empathy, so her wolf would see little reason why she should help humans out by saying more words, if she doesn't feel like doing so.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:11:06 pm by Elle »

jenniwee

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #125 on: March 11, 2012, 02:01:42 pm »
I got the feeling that Brother Wolf thought of words as baby talk because he found them much less precise than what his senses told him.  My impression was that those communication methods which would be more complex for human (metaphor, analogy) are to him a pale reflection of what he is able to project to Charles because his projection is a better reflection of reality.

 When Anna wants him to use words, it's like us trying to convey complex ideas without the linguistic tools that we would usually use, like one does when speaking to children.  He may also think of Anna's attempts to use that type of sense reflection to be like a toddler's use of the word vigorous--not quite right.

As far as Anna's wolf, I don't know that you could view her use of words as a sign of immaturity but rather a lack of interaction with Anna.  Remember, most weres do not have any thing close to the relationship Charles has with Brother Wolf.  And I don't think we've seen enough of Anna's wolf to make too many judgments about her.

In fact, I was a bit disappointed that we did not see more of Anna's wolf in Fair Game.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:11:18 pm by Elle »

Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #126 on: March 11, 2012, 02:25:04 pm »
 :D Good stuff, you two.
Anna's wolf - It would have been nice to see more.  However, stop and think barring Sam taking over from Samuel in "Silver Borne", we don't see much of anybody's wolf, except Charles and his unique relationship with Brother Wolf.  I think both having been there since birth (or before?) gives them more chance for BW to be his own being.  All other werewolves to date have had their wolves "grafted on" to their human selves, and they've been taught that it's a, what's the phrase? "facet of themselves" more or less, rather than a separate being.  It doesn't get the chance to see, hear, think about things the way the human part does, and it hasn't had a chance to go through being a child/cub, so it may be effectively a traumatized 'person', like a kid who is thrown straight into a sweat shop as soon as they can understand "No!" "Sit!" "Hunt!" more or less, with no chance to play or acquire a sophisticated vocabulary or emotional range.  --I'm talking through my hat there, this is just libra blather.   LOL  Say X and I'll argue C.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:11:31 pm by Elle »
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Kkat07

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #127 on: March 11, 2012, 04:34:25 pm »
:D Good stuff, you two.
Anna's wolf - It would have been nice to see more.  However, stop and think barring Sam taking over from Samuel in "Silver Borne", we don't see much of anybody's wolf, except Charles and his unique relationship with Brother Wolf.  I think both having been there since birth (or before?) gives them more chance for BW to be his own being.  All other werewolves to date have had their wolves "grafted on" to their human selves, and they've been taught that it's a, what's the phrase? "facet of themselves" more or less, rather than a separate being.  It doesn't get the chance to see, hear, think about things the way the human part does, and it hasn't had a chance to go through being a child/cub, so it may be effectively a traumatized 'person', like a kid who is thrown straight into a sweat shop as soon as they can understand "No!" "Sit!" "Hunt!" more or less, with no chance to play or acquire a sophisticated vocabulary or emotional range.  --I'm talking through my hat there, this is just libra blather.   LOL  Say X and I'll argue C.

Makes sense. In the previous two books, Anna's wolf tended to stay in the background unless she is needed. The more confident Anna herself gets, the less likely her wolf is to come to the fore. She communicates with Anna more in emotions and words, and since Charles is holding back from Anna for a large portion of Fair Game to avoid hurting her, he wouldn't really be talking to Anna's wolf.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:11:56 pm by Elle »
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Temari

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2012, 01:21:49 am »
I agree that Anna's wolf only helped Anna when needed. It'll be very interesting to see if she starts to take on a different role now Anna doesn't need so much help. I wonder if Anna's wolf is more separate because she's Omega, or because of her traumatic start to being a wolf. In the first A&O book Charles didn't realise that Anna's wolf was helping Anna in bed as Anna's eyes didn't change, so I think the wolf was doing something quite unusual - unique to Omega? unique because of the situation? both?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:12:07 pm by Elle »

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2012, 05:38:32 am »
I agree that Anna's wolf only helped Anna when needed. It'll be very interesting to see if she starts to take on a different role now Anna doesn't need so much help. I wonder if Anna's wolf is more separate because she's Omega, or because of her traumatic start to being a wolf. In the first A&O book Charles didn't realise that Anna's wolf was helping Anna in bed as Anna's eyes didn't change, so I think the wolf was doing something quite unusual - unique to Omega? unique because of the situation? both?

I think part of the problem most dominants have is that both the Human and the Wolf are struggling for supremacy.  They start out both wanting to take charge, and soon go to war over control of body and soul.  Also since they are taught the wolf if a part of themselves, most people just think they are fighting their inner demons on wolf magic steriods.  Or in this case their inner wolf.

With Anna not only was she, by her very nature, not at war with her wolf.  She actively turned to her inner wolf self for comfort and protection, when the human half was overcome.  Whether it was a part of what made her an Omega as a human, that touched her inner wolf and made it calm, helpful and interested in her wellbeing, or if her wolf spirit half came equipped with similar only wolf-centric omega qualities, the result seems to be the same.

The struggle for supremacy and the more violent and uncontrolled wolf qualities were either lacking, unconsciously controlled, or channeled in the most natural and appropriate manner possible.  I don't think Anna, by nature of her personality, would try to hurt the wolf half when it surfaced.  Quite the opposite, she viewed the wolf half as a savior of sorts and source of inner strength to turn to when her human half couldn't handle the load of a world of pain and abuse.

Far from viewing her wolf half as an uncontrolled bundle of violent emotions, like most new werewolves, half-trained Anna didn't like the thought of dominating her wolf half.  Which was more helpful than not.  She didn't fear it or herself.  I think this is a key difference.

Adam, Mercy's Mate, at one point feared for Mercy's safety because he and his wolf are at odds.  Samuel on the other hand has probably the second or third most self aware and unique wolf personality we've come across.  Charles actually views himself as two souls in the same body.  Now he grew up from childhood with his wolf half.  Samuel didn't and yet his wolf seemed like a wolf like mirror image of himself, separate but drawn from the same base stock and molded into his wolf half.  Anna's wolf has been described as more closely twined with her than Brother Wolf, but still much more separate an entity than most other wolves she's seen/encountered.

I think Anna's human half was so much more complex and mature than her were-side that unlike Charles, her wolf won't have quite the same chance to develop into a completely separate personality.  On the other hand, if wolf spirits go through something like childhood when they merge with a human, then when her wolf is tempted to throw a tantrum I bet she unconsciously soothes it and does all correcting that's humanly possible through the soft love approach.  While normal were's immediately start spanking when the 200 pound baby wolf in the mental room starts throwing its weight around.  Thus forming much more of an adversarial relationship and as we can infer, stunting their growth.


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« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:12:28 pm by Elle »
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Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2012, 08:04:05 am »
That sounds quite plausible.  It makes me curious if we could see into some submissive wolves, and see what the difference is there too.
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gryphon340

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #131 on: March 12, 2012, 12:18:17 pm »
 Let's not forget juriors as Oathbreakers too
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:12:40 pm by Elle »
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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #132 on: March 12, 2012, 01:33:15 pm »
Let's not forget juriors as Oathbreakers too
Agreed.  I think the jurors are the major oath breakers in the trial since the found him innocent.  I would be interested to see if anything happens to them.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:12:57 pm by Elle »

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #133 on: March 12, 2012, 01:34:55 pm »
Probably, the people who testified count too. I'm sure a few of them lied on the stand.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:13:10 pm by Elle »
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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #134 on: March 12, 2012, 01:46:08 pm »
Okay, I haven't made it all the way through reading this thread (I'm late to the game, but I just finished the book!), so if I'm repeating, sorry.

I'd point out that, in regard to fae off the res now that the res is a different nation, well, they DO have glamour. As long as they slip out without being seen it's easy enough to put on a "face" no one knows and go visit your off-res friends or what-have-you. And yeah, as someone else said, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ones who were never outed are allowed to stay off--it would be useful, after all. Bran is just told that the "fae have retreated to the reservation." In fae speak, the lack of an "all" modifier leaves a lot of wiggle room!

Overall, I ate this book up. It was great! However, I wasn't surprised by Les Heuter as the baddie; he had it written all over him from the get-go.

Was anyone else very VERY intrigued by Anna's ruminations on having babies? (I'm sure someone else must've been, since there's a whole thread around her dedicated to ideas for making that work :D). I liked how that was slipped in there and I find myself hoping something comes of it, hopefully in future A&O books (I'm rooting for a contract extension  :D), but I'd settle for something in the sidelines of a Mercy book!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:13:22 pm by Elle »
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