Author Topic: [A&O #3] Fair Game Discussion  (Read 95327 times)

catchmeifyoucan

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2012, 05:36:20 pm »
I thought the dominance order was Bran, Charles, Samuel and then Adam..but I could be wrong between Samuel and Charles, but Adam wad fourth.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2012, 05:37:34 pm »
The dominance list Mercy gave us was Bran, Samuel, Charles, then Adam. Might not be entirely accurate though.
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Kyria

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2012, 05:43:41 pm »
Most dominant four are Bran, Charles, Samuel, Adam.  There was a fifth listed back in MC, but he was listed as one of the five Mercy had memorized when she was little, and no mention of whether he's still living. 
I could have Charles and Samuel backwards (pretty sure Charles outranks Samuel but that could just be because Charles is Bran's second, while Samuel is not part of a pack), and I'd guess that Asil is either right above or right below Adam.  He was surprised that Charles is more dominant, and I think he'd have come to the US too recently for Mercy to be familiar with him and his rank among the wolves. 

I believe that the longevity of the fae is fairly well known to humans, I seem to remember Mercy saying something about a lot of fae liking to claim that they live a lot longer than they really do; but she definitely passed on to the strictly-human authorities that when Zee is mad, he curses in old German, not English or modern German. 
I would guess that people had an idea that werewolves could live a long time, due to the accelerated healing and the fact that they never seem to age, but the confirmation of a werewolf being very, very old surprised the humans in the room.  It's one thing to have a theoretical understanding that a werewolf could live for centuries, and to know that some types of fae are virtually immortal... and quite another thing to learn that werewolves are capable, under the right circumstances, of living for nearly as long.
They now know for sure that there is a Marrok pulling the strings of the wolves; but they don't know who Bran is.  And they seem to be somewhat suspicious that Charles is the Marrok.  Do you suppose Bran meant for that to happen?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:00:53 pm by Elle »

Moonlight

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #78 on: March 08, 2012, 08:36:18 pm »
As far as the order of dominance is concerned, I think Samuel and Charles flipped places in recent years as Samuel lost interest in being in a pack after Mercy left.

When Charles makes a comment about fae magic, Beauclaire refers to Charles as Marrok's son and Goldstein gets very interested.  Like he'd heard the name before and now he wanted to know what it meant. I think the government suspects much but may not be sure.  Charles could just be a member of a powerful pack.  My guess though is that he was closely followed when he returned to Montana!  :-'

Makes me wonder if some of the people who want to catch the monsters, whatever form they take, might want to work with Charles and Anna again.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:01:06 pm by Elle »

issah26

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #79 on: March 08, 2012, 10:09:11 pm »
I had a feeling early on that Anna would attrack attention and be kidnapped.I was so happy that Anna didn't get too scared not to be prepared to take care of herself!
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:01:18 pm by Elle »

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2012, 10:15:18 pm »
My guess though is that he was closely followed when he returned to Montana!  :-'
They probably tried, but remember... Charles decided he didn't want to deal with watching security pat Anna down again, so they flew home privately.  So... probably a little harder to follow them home than otherwise.
Besides, remember, Charles said in Hunting Ground that he gets followed by the government... but only when he wants them to. 

Also, my earlier comment was wrong... in the beginning it seems like they might think Charles is the Head Werewolf, but Alistair does refer to him as "The Marrok's son" so that probably made it rather obvious that it's Charles's DAD who is the Guy In Charge.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:01:36 pm by Elle »

jenniwee

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2012, 10:38:42 pm »
I thought in one of the previous books Mercy or Adam talk about how Washington thinks that there may be a leader  off the weres but Bran was playing least in sight in case public reaction was really bad. So the slip may merely be confirmation of that.

Plus, it was unclear how much most of the agents really knew about weres.  Leslie had to do research before the meeting and was surprised several times when what she thought she knew did not match with reality.  And it seemed as if she was getting much of her info from web searches, not what the FBI has on file.  So even if Goldstein and Leslie were surprised, it doesn't necessarily mean that no one in the government knows, just that they don't share info.

As far as Leah and the finances go, it depends on what aspect of the finances she was put in charge of.  It sounded like Charles had handed much of the businesses and investments over to people he trusts, all of whom are human (Bran says that he does it every few years to hide that fact that he doesn't age; Charles may also have done that to try to hide the Marrock's money from the government).  So, if Leah is in charge of keeping the books for just the pack, she doesn't have to be super intelligent or insightful, just detail oriented and decent at math.  Though I agree, it will probably lead to trouble.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:02:04 pm by Elle »

Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2012, 11:23:47 pm »
Good point on the government agencies not talking; theoretically, Leslie should have been able to get anything the gooberment thinks it knows about werewolves by going to CANTRIPP.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:02:15 pm by Elle »
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jenniwee

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2012, 11:36:50 pm »
Though Cantrip seems to have as much misinformation as information.

One of the things I was wondering about the revelation of C & A's identities:  were they able to testify as the "Smiths" or did they have to reveal their real names.  I know the Feds learned Anna's real identity (maiden name) but did they learn the Cornick name, which is really the important one.  I ask, because I don't think it's legal to give testimony under an assumed name.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:02:32 pm by Elle »

Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2012, 12:48:43 am »
Yes, I'm not impressed with that agency either.  I'm also considering them in regard to the revelations about the plot of "Frost Burned."

Very good point on that!  Leading to the question of how much this ends up revealing about Bran and Aspen Creek, what with the same name, and ridiculous spy satellites, and facial recognition software, and the similarities in the face between Charles & Bran, subtle as they are.  Bear in mind, they likely had to identify themselves with some kind of home address too, in case subpeonas were issued, and so forth.

Oh!  And when Charles squashed his cell phone, Bran called Isaac.  Isaac then said, in front of Leslie &...was Goldstein there? *rummages for book.*  Yes, G. was there, & Isaac asks "Four zero six is the Montana area code, right?" So they've got that to work from too.

And again, those kinds of details/problems are why Bran brought the werewolves out when he did, rather than wait for discovery from outside.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:02:46 pm by Elle »
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catchmeifyoucan

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2012, 04:36:57 am »
I have to think though that even though the FBI agents heard about Montana's area code that doesn't mean that they (I think they recognized Charles and Anna as the good guys) 1) will share with CANTRIP or any other government agency and 2) they really couldn't assume that the person calling from Montana was anyone living around Charles, just that Charles knows someone from Montana (or has relatives in Montana).   Also, Charles has homes all over the country as does the pack so they could take some time going from place to place to avoid having the government know where their home base is.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:03:00 pm by Elle »

Prince of Pain

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2012, 05:17:44 am »
The Book was cool.  I heartily recommend it.

I've got to think that what with the way the Fae just lost their cool and declared themselves a hostile sovereign nation, that whatever the Fed's did learn will make the cooler heads hesitate before risking upsetting the werewolf apple cart so soon after the fey one just exploded into applesauce.  While the hotter heads will try to use it to force a big blow up, and try to get all supernaturals listed as hostiles.  Have to see how things spin out.  Mercy playing the persecuted Indian card, if they try to run away and lambast all Sup's as hostiles might make for a good talking point in a nationally televised senate hearing.

It would make a lot more sovereign reservations make a stink.  Only this time it would be native americans instead of the fae.  Being forced to consider bringing out the federal army might slow things down on the 'lets smoke them all out and put the survivors in a zoo philosophy.



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« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:03:13 pm by Elle »
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Kyria

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2012, 09:07:48 am »

Oh!  And when Charles squashed his cell phone, Bran called Isaac.  Isaac then said, in front of Leslie &...was Goldstein there? *rummages for book.*  Yes, G. was there, & Isaac asks "Four zero six is the Montana area code, right?" So they've got that to work from too.
...But the fact that they came from Montana - which is a big state, albeit pretty sparsely populated - could be fairly easy to figure out based on the fact that they flew commercially to Boston.  Also, catchmeifyoucan has good points: I don't live in the same state as MY dad.  So just because Charles's dad lives in Montana, doesn't mean Charles does.  And, the FBI people seem to really not consider Cantrip to be... up to par.  Whereas these two at least really did seem to see Charles as the good guy (though admittedly scary as heck!) and liked Anna.  So I don't see this information finding its way to Cantrip any time soon. 

Something else to consider: "Marrok" is a title.  As has been mentioned, the government has suspected that there's somebody in charge... confirming that he goes by "the Marrok" doesn't make that useful information.  As far as we know, there's no way currently for the government to connect "The Marrok" who is in charge of the werewolves to Bran Cornick of Aspen Creek, Montana.  And, Bran is very good at being underestimated.  If the government were to track him down, I don't think they'd take him seriously as "Guy In Charge" unless he really wanted to show them what he was made of.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:03:32 pm by Elle »

Patti L.

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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2012, 09:33:02 am »
Fun debate!  bOuNcY

Actually, "... Montana - which is a big state, albeit pretty sparsely populated - could be fairly easy to figure out based on the fact that they flew commercially to Boston." They didn't fly straight from Montana, they flew privately to SeaTac, and from here to Boston commercially, making it marginally less easy.  However, bureaucracy raises its ugly head on that.

"So just because Charles's dad lives in Montana, doesn't mean Charles does." doesn't necessarily apply either.  I would have to read back carefully for the detail, but I don't think they specified, either call with Bran & FBI involved had Charles saying "Dad" or "my father" or anything.  They don't know that the person he sent the pics to, nor the one he got the call from is his dad.  The first, in fact, they wouldn't know where he was phoning to.

They may despise Cantrip, and not share what they know with the other Cantrip agent or an official request for briefing/report copies happily, but that doesn't mean that they can avoid doing so under official orders.

The folks trying to follow Charles probably are more successful following less alert werewolves, and considering some of the ... less than optimal ... Alpha wolves we've seen/heard about - Leo, and the Minnesota Alpha of recent memory, ignoring those Bran wouldn't trust with a 13 year old girl - chances are excellent that one or more has given away info to some feds at some point about the yearly AlphaCon.  You can also go clear back to Moon Called and the new werewolves being sold for drug experimentation, and Blackwood's government contracts to contemplate how there might have been truth drugs tried on werewolves, as well as things to knock them out.

Although we're wandering into FB speculation here rather than FG discussion.  Want to take it there?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:03:49 pm by Elle »
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Re: SPOILERS Discussion of Fair Game after publication!
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2012, 12:19:47 pm »
Just finished the book - I loved it!!!  :D Amazing ending - I'd really enjoyed the story and was just thinking things were winding down with plenty of minor 'future problems' to be getting on with - and then the Grey Lord rides in and smashes the known world to pieces!

As for the implications to the wolves - it could go two ways - those who'd want to try very hard not to alienate the wolves as well, vs those who'd think the wolves were a lost cause / in with the fae anyway, so why not fight them in every possible way. Sadly I think the latter is more likely, so I suspect this endangered species bill might well pass.

I think the other Grey Lords knew that Alistair was going to kill Heuter and make his announcement, and realised it was inevitable. I suspect they mostly agreed with him - I think that if they hadn't he might well still have killed in public but would have had to do so just as himself, not as a leader of all the fae.

A thought on Alistair taking a human wife - he may not have been made to do it, but if most of the Grey Lords thought it should be done then he might have felt that he should do so as well, setting an example.

Anyway, I do think this is one of Patty's best books so far, if not the best. Yay!  :D
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 08:04:07 pm by Elle »