Author Topic: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote  (Read 14811 times)

Elle

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Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« on: May 10, 2011, 08:39:06 pm »
A thread to talk about them.

Just reading River Marked again and the scene where Coyote pushes Mercy into the water always makes me laugh. I do love how he is Mercy how Mercy is to everyone. Amusing.
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little gray wolf

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2011, 06:22:10 pm »
IDK where to put this question, but I was wondering, What would happen if the vamps(besides Stephan) met Coyote?
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Patti L.

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2011, 06:32:35 pm »
Given what happened to him as Joe, I personally would say "It depends." 
Coyote as himself?  How much reduced after RM?  How many vampires?  With what other powers? - That is, as Stefan can teleport, The Monster could (like Rogue in X-men, sort of) take on the powers of those he fed on, Catherine could kill by touch, etc.
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little gray wolf

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2011, 06:35:40 pm »
In my head I see it as Marsilla and maybe two more vampires, but just in general.
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Zealith

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2011, 07:52:18 pm »
Snarling on both sides, at the least.

little gray wolf

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 07:11:55 am »
 :D and some language and posturing
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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2011, 03:49:29 pm »
Wondering about thoughts on what Joe Old Coyote / Coyote are/is .... If he can BE someone, take their form he is maybe a mixture of many things or a new thing??

Thoughts?

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little gray wolf

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2011, 04:08:54 am »
Slow down! Could you rephrase that? ???
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CarolKat

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2011, 03:27:07 pm »
I got the impression that Coyote is an old Indian God. He possessed Old Joe Coyote until he died.

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Patti L.

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2011, 03:31:01 pm »
I more had the impression that he "made" a "Joe" suit, like the "Men In Black" "Edgar suit", but not shrugged over an existing body, more sort of superimposed on his existing person.
And he is "a very old silly thing", is he not?
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Kkat07

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 05:45:34 pm »
Kind of like a living computer avatar.  He didn't actually possess Joe, because Joe didn't exist until Coyote made him.  Coyote made him, somehow, and put a little bit of himself into Joe.
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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2011, 01:18:11 am »
Coyote made him, and coyote was him while he lived, but Joe was not Coyote. This is my understaning of it anyway.


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little gray wolf

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2011, 06:41:50 am »
And Joe didn't notice Coyote in him either
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Joretur

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2013, 04:19:50 am »
Here is a bit of my impression of Coyote and Old Joe Coyote.  My view is that Coyote created Joe, and in doing so basically created a split personality within his being.  This personality would be Old Joe Coyote, who may have had the personality quirks and subconscious drive that Coyote has, thus the attacking the vampires etc.  However it was a personality, or split soul, of Coyote.  After Joe died, the entity that was Joe was reintegrated into Coyotes main personality/soul.  Or at least Coyote became the dominate one and absorbed Joe.

Thus how they are each other but not each other.

Baum Diggity

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2013, 04:50:59 am »
I sort of saw it similarly, but I got the impression that Coyote made Joe, and Joe had his own unique personality, and, while Coyote was in there, he was simply along for the ride - bored of doing other things he wanted to play people for a while. He wasn't driving the Joe-suit. Joe was. Coyote was sort of joy-riding in the passenger seat.

I dunno. I got it when I read it, but any time I focused too hard on it, my understanding slipped away. Like those illusions where you can't look directly at what you're looking at  ???
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Kristenann

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2015, 10:43:19 am »
Do you guys think that Mercy's mom started second guessing some things about old Joe when Mercy was born and she found out her daughter turned into a Coyote? Old Joe Coyote? She's never really brought it up, but I'm assuming she was curious about it.

Patti L.

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2015, 03:05:56 pm »
She can be unexpectedly deep; we may never know.
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Kristenann

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2015, 08:39:57 pm »
I'd like to know why Charles never mentioned coyote or an Indian man watching mercy with the wolves, or what he said to him for that matter. If he an Bran thought it curious and that he may of had some family connection to mercy her mother didn't know about, and Charles made him leave before he could make a claim on her? And if mercy wasn't happy there if coyote would of interfered. When Mercy found out there were other walkers she wondered why they never claimed her and left her with a wolf pack to be raised. Though she rather of had Bran and her foster parents. In River marked mercy commented to Adam when he was wounded that they were mates so there's no risk he harmed her, he said that isn't always true and to ask Bran. I wonder if he meant Bran personally or as in ask him for cases of that happening.

I'm reading through some of my favorites in the series and still find many questions and theories, even if they overall hold no importance.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 08:42:19 pm by Kristenann »

Patti L.

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2015, 08:43:18 pm »
Charles has trained himself to be closemouthed, unless it was an original personality trait.

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Kristenann

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 07:18:55 am »
I also wonder why Coyote didn't claim Mercy when they officially met in River Marked. She said since he wasn't claiming her she wasn't claiming him. Was he just giving her time to come to terms with the situation, or waiting until she came into herself and discovered more about that side of her before he claims her? He let it slip several times that he has been keeping watch over her throughout the years, and he knew a lot of things involving her she never told him.

Itsy-Cat

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2015, 07:23:38 pm »
I also wonder why Coyote didn't claim Mercy when they officially met in River Marked. She said since he wasn't claiming her she wasn't claiming him. Was he just giving her time to come to terms with the situation, or waiting until she came into herself and discovered more about that side of her before he claims her? He let it slip several times that he has been keeping watch over her throughout the years, and he knew a lot of things involving her she never told him.

My guess is that Coyote knew how Mercy would feel about the whole 'being abandoned by her father' thing. Hasn't she said before that if Coyote was her father, she'd have to hunt him down and hurt him (or something along those lines, I'm not sure of the exact quote), for abandoning her and her mother when her mother was pregnant? But she doesn't need to hunt him down and hurt him if he's not really her father, so it's kind of easier for her to deal with that way, even if it ends up as being a more of confusing and bizarre and not entirely true explanation.

Regardless of the explanation, I think Coyote is her father, not just 'Joe Old Coyote'. In River Marked, Thunderbird definitely seemed to think Coyote counted as Mercy's father. And didn't Coyote say something about how he was Joe Old Coyote and that while Joe walked around, Coyote walked with him or something, or was him... I don't recall exactly how it was explained, but I think that Joe Old Coyote was Mercy's father, and Coyote was also Mercy's father, except Joe Old Coyote wasn't really real, just someone Coyote made up, which leaves Coyote as Mercy's father. And the walkers are described as the primals' descendants, not descendants of their made-up personalities or something.
        

pcpoet

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2015, 10:30:38 am »
my guess is that coyote needed another descendent to continue to walk the mortal realms so he bedded mercy's mom. I also think that both bran and Charles figured out that she was coyotes daughter and that is why they talked the young mother into leaving mercy with the pack.  I am guessing that Samuel was kept in the dark.

BillG

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2015, 01:22:36 am »
I'm not at all sure that Coyote thinks far enough ahead to decide to create a child. To me, he seems to be much more reactive than proactive.
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Patti L.

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2015, 06:04:52 am »
Also, Gary mentioned that the first time he found a brother/sister he could stand, seems like the Old Coyote is trying to get her killed.  So there are - or have been in the past how long? - others.
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Itsy-Cat

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2015, 07:36:39 am »
Also, Gary mentioned that the first time he found a brother/sister he could stand, seems like the Old Coyote is trying to get her killed.  So there are - or have been in the past how long? - others.

But in Night Broken, Gary said that Mercy was the only real sibling he'd met, (Night Broken, pg 90), so when he referred to his brother and sister walkers, I think he just meant other coyote walkers, not actual siblings. They'd actually be nieces and nephews, or, well, probably more like great great great great... nieces and nephews, considering how he said most walkers were mostly human these days. Saying 'brother and sister walkers' was probably just a simpler way to put it than saying 'various closely or distantly related coyote walkers' or something. So yes, there would have been other actual siblings at some point, but Gary didn't meet them, just their descendants.

And I don't think Coyote is trying to get her killed exactly, he just doesn't seem to be very careful about possibly fatal situations that he or his descendants might end up in, probably because of that stuff Gary said about how death just doesn't mean the same thing to Coyote as it does to regular people.
        

misspiggy4ever

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2016, 08:47:28 pm »
I think in his own way Coyote loves Mercy as much as a being like him can love. We see this in how he saved her in RM. Though since he is Coyote he isn't above putting her in dangerous situations to stir the pot. I think it would be interesting for Coyote and Bran to meet. Now that, I would love to see. I bet Bran has a thing or two to say to Coyote.

Patti L.

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Re: Coyote | Joe Old Coyote
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2016, 09:38:48 pm »
Coyote & Underhill/Tilly have a lot in common.
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