Author Topic: [Mercy #6] River Marked Discussion  (Read 105326 times)

Cerulean

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #195 on: May 05, 2011, 07:51:48 am »
I think you might look less literally, Yidenia. Joseph Campbell was a comparative mythologist who examined thousands of myths all over  the world and found similar themes and patterns. He uses Karl Jung's concept of archetypes, which is that this type of individual is a prototype or essence of something. So for example, we see the Hero (e.g., Luke Skywalker; Belgarion), the Wise Old Man (e.g., Obi-Wan; Belgarath) and The Trickster is another one (e.g., Coyote, Pan). These characters are representations of aspects of ourselves in a way. But they're near universal. So Coyote is a representation of an essential recurring pattern we see in many cultures, no matter where. One of Campbell's most famous books is The Hero with a Thousand Faces, a description of the Hero's Journey, which is the heart of many myths, legends, & dreams. In fact, one very famous quote of Campbell's is that "Myths are public dreams; dreams are private myths." Another interesting reference to how certain mythological figures appear to us in dreams :)

BTW, I just saw that "Old Man" is a "humanized aspect of Coyote." according to a video of Campbell I just watched on the Joseph Campbell Foundation website. Interesting application to Joe Old Coyote :)

So basically, the different Native American tribes in Coyote's sisters are just some of the relevant cultures in which the archetype of The Trickster (in this case, in the form of Coyote) is found. It's not literal at all.
There are many people – happy people, it usually appears – whose thoughts at Christmas always turn to books. The notion of a Christmas tree with no books under it is repugnant and unnatural to them. – Robertson Davies (1997)

Kyria

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #196 on: May 05, 2011, 08:11:16 am »
Sorry, I know I'm probably being difficult XD but I'm not convinced that Europe is a good example to compare the American peoples with.

I didn't mean they were exact parallels!  But rather, that if you look particularly at the "middle" languages (meaning historically.  Modern Europe is not what I'm referring to here, but the local cultures that can be traced back to pre-Christian eras) they exist as a continuum.  Nationality and unified religion were imposed upon tribal and feudal societies.

Native American cultures at some point all came from the same starting point, too... and I would dispute your claim that European cultures all trace back to Greece, anyway.  There were cultures in northern Europe when the Greeks thought they were running the show down in Greece.

Anyway, my point was what Cerulean said about archetypes.  Coyote is simply a convenient way of expressing the Trickster archetype so that he will be familiar to Mercy and the people in the local area.  His sisters may fill a completely different archetype, really, and may be relevant to the different cultures in their own way. 

Patti L.

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #197 on: May 05, 2011, 08:46:49 am »
I guess my offering of how lion stories in Africa are more or less universal is irrelevant?
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Kyria

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #198 on: May 05, 2011, 09:27:20 am »
Of course not, Patti!  But I read that one last night and Cerulean's answer just now. 

I agree with Patti!  Listen to her, she's smart!

Patti L.

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #199 on: May 05, 2011, 09:37:40 am »
Aww...  :-LOVE  That means a lot coming from someone as smart, educated, and accomplished as you are, Kyria!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 09:43:33 am by Patti L. »
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Sopbasa

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #200 on: May 18, 2011, 09:54:48 am »
Trickesters are supposed to cross boundries. Whether it is the line between life and death, heavens and earth, or wisdom and stupidity. They give us fire and hope even death. They are the ramdom person walking down the road. They are very rarely put in a permanent place.
 
In What's this? My balls for your dinner? A White River Sioux tale of how Coyote's wife tricks both Iktome the spider (an eastern trickster) and Coyote out of thier dinner. This is a tale in American Indian Myths and  Legends.  selected and edited by Richard Erdoes and Alfonso Ortiz.

In a Creek tale it is Coyote who is responsible for why people are the color they are. He didn't tell the Great Mystery the correct time to take the people out of the oven so they were taken out too soon or late.

World tricksters are a hobby   :-[. Anyway, I think this ability to cross boundries is the greatest gift that Coyote gave to Mercy. Which enables her to have friends like Zee and Stephen.
"Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought her back"
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Patti L.

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #201 on: May 18, 2011, 10:00:24 am »
Interesting note; I was just thinking last night of I book I believe (memory, sigh) is called "Summerland" where "Shadowtails" are people who are half one thing, half another, and thus can cross between worlds naturally.  Mercy - Mercy, she could lose three halves, and still be a shadowtail, methinks.
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Sopbasa

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #202 on: May 18, 2011, 10:02:17 am »
lol so true
"Curiosity killed the cat but satisfaction brought her back"
"I smile because I have on idea what's going on around me."

Cerulean

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #203 on: May 18, 2011, 12:00:31 pm »
Neat information, Sopbasa!
There are many people – happy people, it usually appears – whose thoughts at Christmas always turn to books. The notion of a Christmas tree with no books under it is repugnant and unnatural to them. – Robertson Davies (1997)

Gerd D.

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #204 on: June 15, 2011, 02:16:43 am »
Well, only just started the book, loved the wedding!
But you know what it reminded me when we entered the church?
The marriage of Marvel's First Lady, Sue Storm, but that was probably just me. 9)

With Anna cameo, yay!
And Butterflies... I couldn't stop thinking of Cry Wolf when they came up.  LOL
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 02:18:37 am by Gerd D. »
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Kkat07

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #205 on: June 16, 2011, 04:45:34 pm »
I loved the little snapshots of Jesse driving Darryl and Auriele crazy, and vice versa. 
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Gerd D.

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #206 on: June 18, 2011, 04:16:19 am »
Back and with more ill fitted comparisons.  9)

Regarding Mercy's dream sequence about the river devil killing the teacher and her family, anybody here who read Bradyburies short story "The Women" (included in "I sing the body electric")?
I thought there to be a similar feel to these two.
“Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.”

Terry Pratchett, "Hogfather"

Kkat07

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #207 on: June 19, 2011, 10:48:16 am »
Nope, never have. 
WAKE THE SANTAMIND. -Eric James Stone

Risika

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Re: River Marked Discussion
« Reply #208 on: June 21, 2011, 09:50:17 pm »
I loved River Marked.

It just reminded me how much i love this series and how i really need to do a re read as soon as i can!

The book for me has this feeling about it.. i can't really describe what it was.. It felt really real and kind of like coming home i guess... I just loved the feeling of this book.

Being able to see Mercy and Adam from their wedding to their honeymoon... to finding trouble.

It was great getting more info about the Walkers. As well as learning about Mercy's dad as well as Coyote( who is awesome Imo)

I loved that this book focused a good amount on Mercy's and Adam's Relationship. Just loved every second of it.
  :-LOVE   

This book at moments brought tears to my eyes, as well as made me laugh.. and even had a few creepy moments..

It was nice seeing the letter from Mercy at the end.. it was nice to read after finishing the Novel.

areuarchi

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Is Mercy Pregnant?
« Reply #209 on: July 28, 2011, 06:00:20 pm »
I may just have pregnancy on the brain since my cousin's baby shower is this weekend, but I was rereading River Marked and came across this line:
Quote
“I think you are taking something precious home with you from this trip,” he told me. "
(Jim Alvin speaking to Mercy as she is getting ready to leave the campground.)

Does precious = pregnant?  :o