Author Topic: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)  (Read 126223 times)

maydayp

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #240 on: July 19, 2013, 11:04:52 pm »
people are mentioning that it is a necessity at this point for all walkers to have walker children both parents have to be walkers. mercy only has one walker parent. I think that this means that she is Coyote's daughter.
my assumption was that both parents needed to come from the Native Americans rather then walkers. (at least my assumption was that the emphasis was on the fact that her mom was Caucasian thus no Native American ancestry rather then needing to be a walker.)
I mean there aren't a lot of walkers around.

Patti L.

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #241 on: July 19, 2013, 11:11:52 pm »
If a Primal is a parent, both parents don't have to be native/have the "walker" gene.
If not, then both parents need to carry the "walker" gene, & until Mercy, only natives have had it.
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Prince of Pain

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #242 on: July 22, 2013, 03:13:50 am »
If a Primal is a parent, both parents don't have to be native/have the "walker" gene.
If not, then both parents need to carry the "walker" gene, & until Mercy, only natives have had it.

We know that Primals make walkers and that when the bloodline is diluted you need walkers from both sides.  But its not clear how sharp the deliniation is.  Can a 1st gen walker make walker babies from strictly their own bloodline?  I don't know that its cannonized yet?




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Patti L.

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #243 on: July 22, 2013, 07:37:56 am »
It's not that I'm aware of, but I did think of this a bit last night, during my re-read of "River Marked" - unless they practiced incest, the second generation of walkers should have been okay to have one walker parent.  So Mercy's children, unless being half anglo works against her, should be walkers.
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Prince of Pain

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #244 on: July 22, 2013, 10:23:20 pm »
It's not that I'm aware of, but I did think of this a bit last night, during my re-read of "River Marked" - unless they practiced incest, the second generation of walkers should have been okay to have one walker parent.  So Mercy's children, unless being half anglo works against her, should be walkers.

Quasi-Primes instead of Demi-primes?  Or is that Semi-primes (snickers).

Although in fairness it wouldn't be incest for the prime-son of eagle to get it on with the prime-daughter of condor.  Same with wolf/coyote or other admixtures.  Technically 'incest' might not be absolutely necessary.  Taht said I'm pretty sure there were some wolf-on-wolf (and other similar types) shifter action in there at some point.  Cousin to the nth degree or not it all comes back to the Prime parent.  If the gene or whatever it is went recessive.  You could still have shifter types popping back into the gene-pool at some point I suppose?




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« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:26:08 pm by Prince of Pain »
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Patti L.

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #245 on: July 22, 2013, 10:32:13 pm »
Possibly, if the Primal in question married a few women around the same time, within a generation of each other, in the same area.

Also, I had another thought; if Mercy ISN'T Coyote's daughter, but "Joe Old Coyote's", then... maybe she's technically the "second generation" I was speaking of, and not first from the Primal.  So... maybe her children with Adam would not be shifters, although if they married/had children with other walkers, their children (Mercy & Adam's grandchildren) might be?
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Prince of Pain

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #246 on: July 23, 2013, 05:53:30 pm »
Here's a weird idea for shifter powers.  Mercy's kids 'have' to change with the full moon because they're weres.  On the other hand in addition to the instinctive european shift that comes along with the moon (that very painful kind), they also have Mercy's ability to shift in an instant and with zero pain.  So unless they tried to stay hoomon for too long during a full moon (like if there was a mercy type adventure going on), they might be able to avoid a lot of those pain filled forced to shift with the moon moments?  And if the 'walker shifting' allows for retention of fetus, this might make her kids the new perfect hybrids for the lupine race!

Somehow though I 'doubt' that Old Joe was a first gen shifter.  Its possible I'll concede that.  But the likelyhood seems very low to me.






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Nille

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #247 on: September 24, 2013, 12:03:27 am »
I believe that Old Joy was Coyote, but was walker and had his own mind. so i believe Mercy is technically Coyotes child. In Frost Burned Coyote also tells Mercy something about, that Coyotes children don't have to follow the rules. In Mercy's and Adam's dream then Mercy take all the silver.
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pjfrisch

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #248 on: September 27, 2013, 02:27:37 pm »
I thought that all the children of a werewolf would have to be human to survive, and only have a wolf as a father.

(I know, I know:  Charles is an exception, but only because BOTH parents were werewolves, and Blue Jay Woman practiced "magic" to enable her to carry a child to term, and died because of it.) 

The children of werewolves can CHOOSE to attempt to become werewolves themselves, to try to survive the mauling and magic, but it is not something they were born as.

Note:  Dr. Carter Wallace, who was killed by Bran because he couldn't control his wolf, was the son of a werewolf.  His own son was a werewolf, but Dr. Wallace was not a werewolf until the end of his life, when he CHOSE to become (or try to become) a werewolf.  Not all those who attempt to become werewolves succeed. 
 

Kyria

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #249 on: November 27, 2013, 05:59:33 pm »
I thought that all the children of a werewolf would have to be human to survive, and only have a wolf as a father.
What I've picked up is that all human women miscarry werewolf babies, and werewolf women (except for Blue Jay Woman due to magically halting the change) miscarry all babies.  So my theory is that if Adam and Mercy had a kid, and assuming that Mercy is able to carry a werewolf baby to term due to her coyote half being compatible with the wolf (given that the wolf portion of werewolves are not morphologically the same as regular wolves, and with magic involved on both sides, this is not necessarily the case), the resulting offspring could be wolf, human, or walker.  Or some combination of the first and third.  This is how I think it works:

(If you're not into genetics, ignore me...)
And when I refer to an allele or genotype, that doesn't mean I'm necessarily thinking of it as a literal DNA genotype/allele.  I'm simplifying by treating the conditions as if they are definitely DNA related, when of course we don't actually know.  But IMO, they act that way. 

1) Based on the prevalence of miscarriages by human women carrying the offspring of werewolves, and the possibility of human offspring born to werewolf fathers, it is my opinion that werewolfism acts as a dominant allele, with all werewolves theoretically being heterozygous (Wh) and all humans being homozygous recessive (hh).  A hypothetical homozygous dominant (WW) individual might be indistinguishable from a heterozygous individual; WW could be a lethal genotype; or WW could confer either an advantage (ie, extra strength/speed, higher dominance, increased likelihood of being Omega if inherited, some kind of advantage in the pack magic) or disadvantage (ie, less control of the wolf).  Charles would, of course, be the only possibility for inherited WW genotype, since each of his parents possessed a W allele, but any were who has not had any offspring survive to birth since being changed could possibly be WW, given that only hh offspring are viable (other than Charles).

That said, Adam is clearly Wh, since he's a werewolf but has a human daughter born after he was changed.

There's got to be other genetics at work, to define the wolf half of the werewolf, but it's completely switched on or off by the master W and h alleles. ***

2) Given what little we know about the complex patterns of inheritance in walkers/avatars - that the child of a walker is not necessarily a walker and the likelihood of being a walker appears to decrease with each generation away from the original Primal parent, but many generations out, walker children might still be born if both parents have a Primal in their ancestry, my guess is that there are many 'genes' controlling whether or not an individual is a walker (each acting as a dominant allele, with the original Primal parent being homozygous dominant for all necessary genes and the first generation offspring being heterozygous.  With each generation, if only one parent descended from a Primal, the likelihood of independent assortment removing a necessary 'gene' increases, but if both parents have a partial walker genotype, they could pass on to their offspring a full set of walker genes. 

Mercy's father was a man who was Not Coyote, but who Coyote was, or however you want to define the complex relationship between Joe Old Coyote and Coyote himself... in any case, my guess is that she's a first generation Walker with a full set of closely linked coyote walker genes.  I'm not sure if that gives her a 50% likelihood of her offspring being a walker, or a higher-than-50% likelihood due to magic or some kind of lethal allele.  But we'll assume 50% likelihood for the purpose of this discussion.

That means that 50% of Adam's kids would be werewolves, and 50% of Mercy's kids would be walkers, and since they're clearly not controlled by the same genes, the two are not mutually exclusive. 

So if Adam and Mercy had 4 kids, they could theoretically have all of the following:
A werewolf kid
A walker kid (***given what I said about werewolf genes defining the wolf half but a master gene determining whether or not the individual is wolf or human, I suppose that it's possible Adam and Mercy could have both coyote and wolf walker children... in which case I wonder if the wolf walker would look like a real wolf or more like his/her dad's wolf... in any case, this is different from the werewolf/walker kid below because he/she would not have the accelerated healing or increased strength of a werewolf.  Since Mercy is part of the Pack and can use the Pack bonds, I'm assuming that her walker children would be in a similar situation)
A human kid
A werewolf+walker kid

How's that for a crazy family, huh? 

Varg

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #250 on: November 28, 2013, 04:48:48 am »
Hmm, interesting.

And that would definitely be an interesting family! :D


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big city wolf

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #251 on: November 28, 2013, 10:53:27 am »
In River Marked, someone says that all of Coyote's children and children's children for a number of generations are able to change to coyote.  So theoretically all of Mercy and Adam's children would be able to change to coyote and maybe or maybe not a werewolf.  So if one of them gets seen as a werewolf, poof and there would be just a coyote there.   O)

Kyria

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #252 on: November 28, 2013, 08:32:32 pm »
I thought I remembered something like that but wasn't sure. 
I don't think coyote walker DNA would necessarily mean the offspring would turn into a coyote (or that a walker+werewolf kid would turn into both a coyote and a werewolf).  The kid could have one hybridized shift form, or inherit only the magic of one parent with the form of the other (ie, turn into a coyote but otherwise have all of the advantages and disadvantages of being a werewolf, such as fast healing, control issues, and long, painful shifts; or turn into a werewolf but otherwise have all of the advantages and disadvantages of being a walker, such as slow healing, little self-vs.-animal dichotomy, and fast, painless shifts).  The genes or magic could partially cancel each other out. 

Patti L.

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #253 on: November 28, 2013, 10:28:27 pm »
Not to mention things like silver issues, or lack of same, need for pack, moon requirements for shifts or lack of same.
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ladychaos

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Re: Werewolves and Children (General Theory Discussion)
« Reply #254 on: December 08, 2013, 06:48:44 pm »
I wonder could the offspring of a walker and a werewolf be a hybrid of some sort?