Author Topic: Cornick family, born, married, & adopted, a gathering  (Read 184004 times)

leaf

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #120 on: January 24, 2008, 12:42:47 pm »
Hi
Could it be that she's behaving badly towards Mercy (and for all we know other people who don't fit with her world view) because she can - the Marrok being the only person who she is answerable to?  Maybe Bran is indulgent to her because he doesn't love her & feels guilty about it?  Maybe it is a bit like when you are extra polite to people because you feel bad about not liking them?

jenglows

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #121 on: January 24, 2008, 02:10:56 pm »
I think he is just being a man and trying to avoid the business of woman's social nastiness. Not that he is being indulgent, more like he doesn't notice unless it's serious physical punishment. I get the feeling that most of Leah's nastiness falls in to the psychological torment category of a bullying, like social isolation.

Triakel

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #122 on: January 25, 2008, 03:45:18 am »
Ohhh, what an interesting thread!ยจ

On Bran
All of you make good arguments for your points of views. I just don't know. Instinctivly I like Bran, but like many of you I hate "for your own good", and Bran is neck-deep in that. I do believe his intentions are good though (great definition of social contracts btw).

On Leah
I agree she didn't strike me as dominant in the "natural alpha" way. More in the "wannabe" beta way. You know the type, the bullies, cool kids, who are so tough until the going gets really tough, then they back down. In my opinion, when these people obtain power, they are the kind of leaders who love the power, the status, lording it over others, but won't take on the responsibility. It's like a boss I had once, who wanted to know everything, she said, but when asked for help, even with organizing the work-group, told us to do it ourselves. All control, no actual work. That was a lenghty tirade, but I wanted to explain what I meant by beta. The kind of leader who doesn't understand it's a contract of give and take. Selfish, basicly. Although to be fair, not all people are capable of all that it takes to be a good leader, but if you don't have what it takes to fulfill the role, you should recognise it and step down. But that's what people in the "beta" category never do, in my experience. Because they love the power over other people too much.
I think Leah and Mercy's personalities would have crashed either way, but that Leah probably hated Mercy from day one (the implications that Mercy's childhood was difficult with Bran's pack) for reasons beyond Mercy herself, like maybe resenting Bran's interest in the child (I agree with those who think Bran holds Mercy as much more important than she herself understands. The books are after all narrated from Mercy's point of view, and I've often gotten the impression she's not reading enough into her realationship with Bran's pack). And then there is the fertility thing of course. But I can imagine her dislike only grew as Mercy did. Mercy wouldn't have been dominated by Leah, and that would have made her madder, I think. Here was a female more truly dominant than her, ya know? (even if Mercy might not want to lead, I think she probably has the potential for it, and would be a "respect comes with responsibility" type, ie a good leader, which Leah is not)

Before I go, what did you guys think of my solution to the Leah problem, hehe?  ;D Use her as test-subject for female werewolf "run-away-from-the-moon-to-have-a-baby" fertility treatment...

/L
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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #123 on: January 25, 2008, 09:28:03 am »
I agree!!!!

Although its a bit more than that as well- in Alpha and Omega, Isabelle has also stood up to Bran and he understood and liked her despite her rebellious nature.
I think Mercy has a similar thing too, but what really gets to Leah is that Mercy isnt a werewolf and is a Walker/coyote which really must get to her especially- its implied that Mercy is naturally more dominant as well, because she can stand up to Bran. I dont think Leah can do that to him and it really bugs her.
I wonder if Leah as a woman loves Bran or its the same thing that Bran has for Leah. Is it just their wolves that are mated but their human sides cant stand each other- and Leah is definitely enjoying the queen bee status.
 
And talking about children - I don't think Bran would like to have kids with her, as a man he cant stand her and would he be able to stomach her bearing him children if she could. And despite the fact that she is resentful about Mercy's ability to have them, because she is unable to bear them-
how she is portrayed so far is she a good mother ??? She hasn't displayed any positive personality traits and we can argue that she is misunderstood. But she doesn't like Bran's sons either, perhaps because they are his children and she is resentful because of that but it does show she is pretty bitter and vindictive, not good qualities to be a mother I think. 
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rolange

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #124 on: January 25, 2008, 11:25:39 am »
I spent some time this morning going through this whole thread and it was very interesting. However, I still have some questions and/or observations if you'll bear with me.

Questions.
How long did Bran's wolf wait before he chose Leah as his mate? What is it about Leah that made the wolf choose her, was it simply to fill a void? How old is Leah and was she a werewolf when Bran's wolf chose her or was she changed? Since she was chosen after Charles' mother died, did she help raise Charles? (wait a minute, if she was chosen after Charles' mother died...she must be pretty old too, lol I also can't imagine her raising Charles, I think Samuel would have been more help there than his step-mother).

As for Leah, maybe she's unhappy. She gets whatever dominance she has from being Bran's mate, even though Bran in human form can't stand her. She must  know that. In any case, I think Patti has indicated that she's aware that the whole pack remembers how much Bran loved Charles' mother and that's gotta affect her self-esteem, add to that her knowledge that Bran the man (lol) didn't choose her but his wolf did. Maybe she feels that she's owed respect because of her ranking but Bran's pack has two other dominates, Samuel and Charles, add to that Bran thinking of Mercy as his daughter (giving her respect and ranking to an ipso facto member of the pack) and her standing is actually a lot lower than it would be in another pack. It's like winning the lottery but having to share it with 17 others. It doesn't really feel like winning now, does it?

I don't feel sorry for Leah though, she seems like a mean and miserable person whose simply filling a void for Bran's wolf. Too bad his wolf hadn't been more patient and waited until a more suitable mate came along. Still, she does add a interesting dynamic to the stories which makes me even more interested in seeing more of the Marrok and his pack.

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #125 on: January 25, 2008, 12:02:58 pm »
I think Leah had a choice to be like this though - she allowed hate and bitterness to overrule her and perhaps she should have known that being Bran's mate was going to be difficult. From the sounds of it I get the impression that she was a werewolf because she was attracted to the fact that she could be female equivalent of the Marrok and when that wasn't the case it must have made her a little crazy. Also this raises the question that to have a healthy mating both man and wolf must be mated and love their partners. Both Adam, Sam and Bran shows that there seems to be problems with their relationships - although I am sure there other matings or marriages where the couples are content. But if the wolf or man is unhappy with the mating/marriage it must be hell to be with someone they despise.
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Triakel

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #126 on: January 26, 2008, 10:27:39 am »
Yeah, I agree that Leah definently doesn't seem like a nice person, and that it's almost certainly HER fault. I mean, there are people who have mental problems or illnesses that excuse their behaviour a little. Even childhood hurts and stuff (even though I'm a firm believer in the "once-you're-18-and-an-adult-it-is-your-own-d*mn-responsibility-to-fix-youself" not without help or support, but I just feel that once you're legally an adult, you can no longer hide behind excuses for your behaviour. If you have a problem, it's up to you to GET HELP for it. I don't expect you to do it all on your own, and I don't mean that we can't use psycological and social theories, but I just feel that the world would be better if people actually used their ability for reason in order to look at themselves a bit more, you know?).
But Leah, especially since she's probably at least a century or something, has had a lot of time for soulsearching. And being born in an earlier time means she should be more accostumed to being opressed and all...  :P  Kidding. Don't mean she's opressed. But we had a really interesting lecture once about the notion of romance and marriage, and how current western civilization's definition of family and marriage comes from the burgois classes in the 19th century, and how before that, love and marriage was NOT so mutually intertwined, one connoting the other etc. Great class. And I'm not explaining it as well as Tina does, but it's about the ideologies, the ideas, the mind, not the hard facts, because of course one already knew that the royals married for politics, and the upper classes married for money and connections etc. But somehow, trying to put aside one's own idea of what marriage is, one could much more readily understand a farmer marrying a girl from a family that could give her a cow, cause that would be useful, and choosing the girl cause she was healthy and strong and could bear him children that could help on the farm. I mean, to us it's cold, but if you don't factor in love, it makes sense, and who is to say they couldn't have grown to respect and like eachother, and been happy with their lives?`

The point of this long rant is that not only does this co-incide with our dear Samuel's views of Mercy (he considers them honourable, he's up front with her, he thinks, ignoring for his own comfort the fact that people born in this century wouldn't be able to understand his way of thinking). I also think it gives an explanation to why Bran would go ahead with marrying Leah even though he didn't love her. He loved his dead mate, but for him that must have been like an abnormality, or stroke of luck or something. And if Leah's born before 1800, she should have been cool with that. And anyway, even if she's a Jane-Austen era woman, wouldn't the ideal for women from that time have been to buckle up and do the best of the situation? Like Anne's mother did in Persuasion. And that's what I think is most reprehensible in how Leah behaves. She has the chance to actually make a difference. She has money, power and respect from her husband. He might not love her, but he never disrespects her, undermines her in public etc. If she had wanted, she could have taken all the passion she can't have in her marriage and done great things. Teach the younger wolves, mother them or lead them, create a close-knit comunity for the few female were-wolves (doesn'te even have to be feminist-like, or empowering or anything. Even just female companionship in the form of knitting-groups or whatever). She could have worked with Samuel on the fertility thing. She could do so many positive things, and instead she uses her energy to hate. Hate Mercy, hate Bran, hate his sons. That is her decision, and that is what is, to me, an actuall sin. It's wasted potential. Because no matter what genetical and social potential she had, she must have been able to do better than she has, right?

/L
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government... you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

Patti L.

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #127 on: January 26, 2008, 01:10:15 pm »
How old is Leah and was she a werewolf when Bran's wolf chose her or was she changed? Since she was chosen after Charles' mother died, did she help raise Charles? (wait a minute, if she was chosen after Charles' mother died...she must be pretty old too).
It's like winning the lottery but having to share it with 17 others. It doesn't really feel like winning now, does it?
I don't feel sorry for Leah though, she seems like a mean and miserable person whose simply filling a void for Bran's wolf. . Still, she does add a interesting dynamic to the stories which makes me even more interested in seeing more of the Marrok and his pack.

This quote is seriously snipped, butfor a reason.  It's particularly this section:  "(wait a minute, if she was chosen after Charles' mother died...she must be pretty old too)."


Wrong.  She could be 20years older than Mercy.
Or 150.
But we don't know.
Otherwise, you have all come up with some really good stuff.
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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #128 on: January 26, 2008, 01:41:23 pm »
I have a feeling that she is under a 100 years old - dont know why but that is the impression that I have and I think Sam stated in IK that Bran's wolf felt that he was alone long enough and claimed Leah. But interesting thoughts Triakel- I think Leah is going to cause alot of trouble and tension in the Anna and Charles books!
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jenniwee

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #129 on: January 27, 2008, 05:28:34 pm »
I think in many ways Leah was a character that Patty set up as interesting backdrop in MC, and then when the series took off, she kind of had to say, why is Leah sooo nasty?  And why does Bran put up with her?

It should be interesting to see how she develops the character.  Plus it's always fun to have a minor villan running around.

jenglows

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #130 on: January 28, 2008, 06:34:32 pm »
Wrong.  She could be 20years older than Mercy.
Or 150.
But we don't know.
Otherwise, you have all come up with some really good stuff.
We don't know that.  She could be older than Bran.  All we know is that his wolf choose her sometime in the last 200 years.  Maybe Bran met her when she was alread 150 or maybe she wa born in 1962 ;)

Patti L.

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #131 on: January 28, 2008, 10:36:55 pm »
That's what I was trying to say.  She could theoretically be older than Bran, which could mean that she's going very slowly crazy, manifesting it in hating Mercy.  Or she could be near his age.  Or a few years younger than Charles.  Or just a few years -15 or 20 years - older than Mercy.  The current information doesn't tell us, one way or the other.
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Cerulean

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #132 on: January 29, 2008, 03:00:25 pm »
Is it possible to un-mate? If someone more suited to Bran came along, would his wolf release the bond?
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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #133 on: January 29, 2008, 03:09:04 pm »
I think in a chat - Patty hinted that there is a way out of a mating but it usually involves killing the mate I think, since death is the only way out. Mating is much more permanent than marriage and I think there is a deeper bond as well especially if both man/woman and wolf are mated.  Although she did state that someone could leave their mate but its got to  be be really hard and probably it depends on the circumstances. I suppose betrayal/infidility could definitely be reasons for leaving or killing the mate. And  I also think another factor is that if only the wolf is mated like Bran- Adam I think wasnt mated at all to his wife which allowed for the divorce/separation.
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jenglows

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Re: Bran and Leah
« Reply #134 on: February 02, 2008, 08:50:25 pm »
That's what I was trying to say.  She could theoretically be older than Bran, which could mean that she's going very slowly crazy, manifesting it in hating Mercy.  Or she could be near his age.  Or a few years younger than Charles.  Or just a few years -15 or 20 years - older than Mercy.  The current information doesn't tell us, one way or the other.
sorry  :-[ I misread your post :)