Author Topic: [Mercy #4] Bone Crossed Discussion  (Read 155270 times)

Talyn

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #135 on: February 07, 2009, 07:59:13 pm »
Even though I read it twice I still completely missed that! The rest of you are paying a lot more attention then me.

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Patti L.

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #136 on: February 07, 2009, 08:07:40 pm »
I had more time to see it in - at least in the early version - so I noticed the partial repair in the real version.
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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #137 on: February 07, 2009, 09:40:59 pm »
YAY! I Finally got it, and I must say I enjoyed it very much. I haven't done the customary second read through, but I realized something caught my attention while I was reading.... Since when has Samuel been Bran's second? I thought he was Bran's third? That's what his ID card says.  Mercy mentions it on pg 34, not too far from the top.

And if someone's brought it up before sorry for making you guys repeat yourselves ^^;
« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 09:46:23 pm by Teagan »

caerali

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #138 on: February 08, 2009, 04:05:38 am »
Well the part with Samuel being his second -- I don't know if that was an error -- or maybe he really was second until he left.  It might explain why Charles has such a sour stomach about some of his duties in Cry Wolf.  He's not become accustomed to his roll yet.  We might have to put that up for the next chat session or in an ask patty.

Pendle

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #139 on: February 08, 2009, 06:07:36 am »
Just looking for a topic on the forum to say hi, as of yet I haven’t found  it so I might as say it here “hi” *waves*, while I’m reading through the discussions.  BC was awesome. The characters have grown and developed and are now well established. And I love Stefan, I feel sorry for him in this - he was used and I didn’t like it. I want to see more of him in the future. He’ll go back to Marsilia, but I hope he doesn’t make it easy for her.

On topic; I noticed that in the ARC, Charles was referred to as "Samuel's oldest son".
Well, Samuel is his brother, as we know, and that got fixed, but it's still glitched in this edition; it now says "Samuel's OLDER brother" or "Bran's OLDEST son", and we know that Samuel is a good - millennium older than Charles.

I did notice this when I was reading through BC. I stumbled past it then doubled back thinking that’s not right. Maybe it was a mistake but then again Mercy’s grown up believing Charles was the oldest of the brothers. Old habits die hard and all.

but I realized something caught my attention while I was reading.... Since when has Samuel been Bran's second? I thought he was Bran's third? That's what his ID card says.  Mercy mentions it on pg 34, not too far from the top.

I have always thought that Samuel was the third as well. That Charles has been second for a lot longer than the time Samuel disappeared anyway. Like in MC where Mercy lists the powerful wolves. Bran one. Charles two. Samuel Three. Adam four. You remember she memorised this with her foster father. Perhaps Charles became second when he became the pack assassin.

caerali

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #140 on: February 08, 2009, 06:10:54 am »
Wow, you have a better memory then I do!  LOL

Pendle

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #141 on: February 08, 2009, 06:17:05 am »
Wow, you have a better memory then I do!  LOL

Yeah, I have a habit of picking up and retaining a lot of useless information that would not help me if my life depended on it.

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #142 on: February 08, 2009, 09:34:25 am »
The thing about the line about Marsilia is it's the last line. Why did Patty choose to end the book that way? It didn't bring the focus back to her relationship with Adam or Sam. It didn't bring it back to anything to do with the pack. The line could have been followed with something, but it wasn't. What was the reason the meeting even took place? We already knew what was in the letter.  The meeting didn't have to be written. Then we would have been left with Mercy reconnecting with Adam as the ending.

Unless we look at the book thematically. Marsilia's speech brings us back to the theme of sacrifice, but it is Marsilia making the speech about Stefan. Thematically it works, but the last part of the book is usually about the hero, so how does that last passage relate to Mercy?

Writing my own novel has made me sensitive to things like first and last lines of chapters and books and the order things are presented. Those are things writers spend a great deal of time on. When the perfect line lets itself be knows, bells go off. Even if the writer doesn't know why they are, they do. What made bells go off about that line?


Ohhh that is a very interesting point!
At the end of MC - Mercy arranges to meet up with Stefan and the next book it deals with the vamps and Stefan.
At the end of BB - Mercy gets the pic of Adam and in IK she decides to choose Adam. This also  suggest that Mercy has the ability to strengthen ghosts abilities/prescence which happens in BC.

And the end of of IK you have the working through the issues with Adam - but I think that ending in BC will throw more of a twist at Mercy and Marsilia. Although they may both wish each other dead. They both have stated that they would like each other in different circumstances. And I dont think being a walker and a vampire is the main cause but its Stefan. Mercy would have liked Marsillia if not for the fact that shes  bug crazy and used Stefan in the way she did. And Marisillia would have liked Mercy if Stefan didnt have feelings for her - hes the only one that is actually stopping them both from harming each other because if he wasnt in the picture then Marsillia would have probably attacked Mercy outright even if she didnt have ties with the wolves.

I think the other vampire - Bernard's master will definitely crop again and you know that saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend what if Mercy and Marsillia have to team up again just in case he has another sneaky plan to take over the Seethe?
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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2009, 09:44:23 am »
What a great memory you have Pendel! I completely forgot that scene and even then was questioning my memory about Samuel.  I guess I could mosey on over to the ask Patti section and maybe she'll clarify.

And I think Charles has been the assassin for a while, not just recently. I always thought he was sour about it because before he didn't really majorly care what happened to him, whereas now he has Anna and he wants to be able o spend lots of time with her.

Patti L.

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2009, 01:41:47 pm »
Just looking for a topic on the forum to say hi, as of yet I haven’t found  it so I might as say it here “hi” *waves*, while I’m reading through the discussions.  BC was awesome. The characters have grown and developed and are now well established. And I love Stefan, I feel sorry for him in this - he was used and I didn’t like it. I want to see more of him in the future. He’ll go back to Marsilia, but I hope he doesn’t make it easy for her.

On topic; I noticed that in the ARC, Charles was referred to as "Samuel's oldest son".
Well, Samuel is his brother, as we know, and that got fixed, but it's still glitched in this edition; it now says "Samuel's OLDER brother" or "Bran's OLDEST son", and we know that Samuel is a good - millennium older than Charles.

I did notice this when I was reading through BC. I stumbled past it then doubled back thinking that’s not right. Maybe it was a mistake but then again Mercy’s grown up believing Charles was the oldest of the brothers. Old habits die hard and all.

but I realized something caught my attention while I was reading.... Since when has Samuel been Bran's second? I thought he was Bran's third? That's what his ID card says.  Mercy mentions it on pg 34, not too far from the top.

I have always thought that Samuel was the third as well. That Charles has been second for a lot longer than the time Samuel disappeared anyway. Like in MC where Mercy lists the powerful wolves. Bran one. Charles two. Samuel Three. Adam four. You remember she memorised this with her foster father. Perhaps Charles became second when he became the pack assassin.

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I think this reference was to level of dominance, not to pack position.  Sam bowed out of the pack position, but he's still more dominant than Charles is; just like Warren is really more dominant than Darryl, but acts as third rather than second, for the good of the pack.
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mimi

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #145 on: February 08, 2009, 01:47:54 pm »
Hi Patty,

WOW!  Bone Crossed was great.  I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the parts where Mercy came into the pack and she and Adam are flushing out their relationship.  They're not overly sappy, but they obviously care very deeply for each other.  Terrific characters in another terrific story.

I do have a question, though.  I was really surprised(confused)  that Stefan's flock survived.  I mean, isn't it more in character for Marsilia to have really killed them all?  Or, is this integral to a future plot line?  It just struck me as being a bit out of the blue, that's all. 

Anyway, thanks again, and I'm really looking forward to the next Charles and Anna book!

Moved from "Ask Patty" to avoid spoilers for those who haven't read the book yet.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2009, 03:49:25 pm by Patti L. »

lunasea

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #146 on: February 08, 2009, 02:01:37 pm »
I think the other vampire - Bernard's master will definitely crop again and you know that saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend what if Mercy and Marsillia have to team up again just in case he has another sneaky plan to take over the Seethe?

I can very easily see this happening. One thing this book did was expand Mercy's universe in many ways. We already knew there are other fae, but we see several more, one of who is connected to wolves. We already  knew there are vamps outside of Marsilia's seethe, but this is the first time we see any. We learn more about pack and vamp magic. I don't think Patty can shrink the universe. From here on out, creatures outside of Mercy's inner circle have to play important roles and that universe has to keep expanding, like a Big Bang. This is one thing I love about UF.

I had an evil idea. What would be worse and more dramatic than Mercy helping Marsilia? If Mercy has to bond with Marsilia, maybe to give Marsilia the strength to beat Bernard's master. 1) There's the whole Mercy not trusting Marsilia, so bonding will really suck 2) Marsilia is more powerful than Stefan. Just because he isn't powerful enough for the bond to affect the entire pack through Mercy's bond with Adam, doesn't mean she isn't. That could  be the very reason she needs to bond. Perhaps the pack can strengthen her. 3) Someone will have to kill Marsilia to end it, that someone being the one creature who knows her daytime resting spot.

There are lots of things set up in BC. The snow elf might even make another appearance, to counter Marsilia's control of the pack. The most significant magic in this book is the idea of a vampire bonding. In the beginning, Adam and the other wolves feed Stefan so he can't bond with Mercy.

I'm thinking a lot about Bran's appearance and what he says. He offers to show Mercy how to break the bond with Adam. Her response, "not yet." That's got to come back and bite her on the ass. If she knew how, she could sever the tie before Marsilia bonds with her.

lunasea

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #147 on: February 08, 2009, 02:09:30 pm »

I think this reference was to level of dominance, not to pack position.  Sam bowed out of the pack position, but he's still more dominant than Charles is; just like Warren is really more dominant than Darryl, but acts as third rather than second, for the good of the pack.

When it comes to Samuel's status, I think we have to consider his temperament. In CW Bran doesn't send him out because he's a healer, not a killer. Even though Charles is hurt and Bran knows Samuel can do the job, Bran also worries about what it would do to Samuel.

When it comes to Charles, I think we have to consider his ability with magic. Charles is an interesting wolf, being able to change effortlessly and do magic, even when out of his mind with silver poisoning. Samuel's dominance over Charles could be one of respect and nothing to do with actual power. It could also have to do with how Charles views brother wolf.

I would hate to see what would happen if Mercy and/or Anna were ever in danger and Samuel and Charles had to fight. Hopefully, Bran would be nearby and box them both in the ears.

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #148 on: February 08, 2009, 02:29:58 pm »
Lunasea, what great ideas you come up with!  I wanted to let it rest, but I'd forget what I was going to say, so I had to open a second tab.  :D  I have to have your whole reply in front of me so I can quote and argue/discuss with you.
Let's see. 
First:

Quote
We already  knew there are vamps outside of Marsilia's seethe, but this is the first time we see any.
Basically true, but not 100%.  Consider the sorcerer vamp from Blood Bound.  While Andre may have made him, he wasn't really part of the seethe.

Quote
I don't think Patty can shrink the universe. From here on out, creatures outside of Mercy's inner circle have to play important roles and that universe has to keep expanding, like a Big Bang. This is one thing I love about UF.

Yes!  I'm with you here!

Quote
Just because he isn't powerful enough for the bond to affect the entire pack through Mercy's bond with Adam, doesn't mean she isn't.

I have to disagree with you here.  I don't think there could be a vampire strong enough to fight against and beat ALL the wolves in the pack at once, which is clearly stated as the reason vamps don't take Alphas; they can't.

Quote
Someone will have to kill Marsilia to end it, that someone being the one creature who knows her daytime resting spot.
This would, in my opinion be best, but it isn't the only possibility.  Marsilia would most likely not want to retain the bond; she knows how to end it, and so does Wulfe.  Even just going back to Stephan for blood exchange would break it again.

Quote
In the beginning, Adam and the other wolves feed Stefan so he can't bond with Mercy.

Not entirely correct.  There are several reasons they feed him, and (maybe because my imagination is lacking in this area) that one never occurred to me.  I thought the reasons were
1. to keep him from draining her.
2. to keep him from hating himself after.
3. to pay him back for his help with the demon ridden vamp.
4. to get more information from him.
5. to retain him as a sometime ally.
maybe even
6. because he's a friend of Mercy's.

And you may have some real 'dang, did she see that coming!?' points in your last paragraph.  Marsilia or someone else, I think you're right that the 'not now' is going to bite her & the pack, bigtime.

Thank you for making my brain work!  :-*
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lunasea

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Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
« Reply #149 on: February 08, 2009, 03:16:36 pm »
Quote
In the beginning, Adam and the other wolves feed Stefan so he can't bond with Mercy.

Not entirely correct.  There are several reasons they feed him, and (maybe because my imagination is lacking in this area) that one never occurred to me.  I thought the reasons were
1. to keep him from draining her.
2. to keep him from hating himself after.
3. to pay him back for his help with the demon ridden vamp.
4. to get more information from him.
5. to retain him as a sometime ally.
maybe even
6. because he's a friend of Mercy's.

page 14-15
"I should have tried to stop Adam--I'd fed Stefan before without any ill effects that I knew of, and I was pretty sure that Stefan cared whether I lived or died. I wasn't so sure how he felt about Adam. But I remember Stefan telling me that there "shouldn't" be any problems because it had only been once, and I'd met a few of Stefan's band of sheep--the people who served as his breakfast, dinner, and lunch. They were completely devoted to him. Don't get me wrong, he's a great guy for a vampire--but I somehow doubted that those young people, mostly women, could live together devoted to one man without some sort of vampire meserism at work. And I'd sort of had my fill of magical compulsion for the year."

Magical compulsion is an important thread running through the series and I can't see it magically disappearing. It will come back into play, even in regards to the pack. That was why Mercy was reluctant to bond with Adam in the first place.

When something is mentioned as impossible or really hard, like a vamp bonding with an alpha, it tends to happen somewhere down the line. We've already seen a vamp who wasn't affected by the sun (brilliant how Patty did that). We've seen a non-wolf bond with an alpha. When Mercy killed Tim, that was a loophole in the impossible. Figuring out ways to explain the impossible is one of the fun things about writing.