Author Topic: Secondary Character Discussion  (Read 21314 times)

Gerd D.

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Secondary Character Discussion
« on: July 27, 2008, 07:46:37 am »
And what's going on with Sage and Asil?  I need to reread the book but I can't figure out if their relationship is father figure/daughter, beloved uncle figure/daughter, or potential romance years down the road...
A fair question, though I can't really see them as a romantic couple, she like a thosand years younger than him (I guess). :o
 :D

Nah, Sage struck me as the kind that feels drawn to emotionally reclusive people, the way she deals with Anna, Charles and Asil, there seems to be pattern to that.
I'm sure she would have liked Walter, and certainly could have gotten him to loosen up a bit.

Sage and Asil ... we know that he respects her and that he values her friendship but I wonder if theres any romantic feeling involved or if that could grow out of it.

However, Sage reminded of something Dar Williams said about her song Mercy of the Fallen, how there seems to be a silent understanding and mutual respect among people that went through same hardships, although she's talking about recovered drug addicts there it seems to apply.
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Zealith

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 02:43:37 pm »
Personally, all I saw between Sage in Asil was friendship, Sage seemed like the type to make friends with nearly everyone.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 05:41:29 pm by Elle »
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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 03:00:42 pm »
I dont know- I think there could be something there. Asil seemed to like her and he was pretty antisocial- and thats a good point about him being mated. Perhaps now he can try to move on especially with Anna's prescence. I would also like to know more about Sage's past - its seems she had a similar experience with Anna's.
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Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2008, 05:20:43 pm »
Ding dong, the witch is dead!  I wonder if Asil feels like singing that, after 2 centuries?
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Ellyll

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2008, 06:38:03 pm »
Poor Asil had a lot of old wounds resurrected.  I hope he gets to start healing now, as I expect he never did before.  At least he doesn't want to die anymore.
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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2008, 06:43:43 pm »
He mostly only wanted to because she was messing with him through the usurped bond.  With that rot cut out, he could be good for another millenium.  Eh, what do I know?  But Anna will help.
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Ellyll

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2008, 06:48:16 pm »
I think you're exactly right.  On both counts.  He never got the chance to heal, which must have made for a hellish two centuries.  On the other hand, it implies that he's a very strong person.
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Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2008, 06:51:31 pm »
I wonder, then, if with some healing, Bran will start using him for some 'chores' around the US?
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charmed

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2008, 06:52:57 pm »
I'd like to see Asil more. He's a very intruguing character, and it's fun seeing him needle Charles.
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Aurora

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2008, 12:42:18 pm »
I liked all the secondary characters introduced in CW.  I noticed that all of them are surviviors in their own way. 

Walter was so wounded I just wanted to give him a hug.  He isolated himself to protect other from the monster he'd become.  Only to learn what a true monster was.

Asil was almost broken from the lose of his mate.  Driven slowly mad by the thing that killed her.  I hope that finding and then losing Sarai again doesn't finish the job.  I think that Asil is stronger then that though.  I think that there's the potential for romantic development between him and Sage.

Sage is a fighter it seems that she was wounded in the passed.  I hope to learn more of her story in future books.  Is it me or does ever female wolf seem to be abused.  Sage, Honey, Leah and Anna even Mercy have all be abused or so it seems.       

jenniwee

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2008, 02:31:06 pm »
I wonder, then, if with some healing, Bran will start using him for some 'chores' around the US?

That could be interesting, especially since I got the impression that Asil sometimes had a slightly skewed perception of things.  He refers to Charles as a "thug" thinks that Leo had been a good and honorable man and doesn't seem to respect how dangerous Bran might be.  I liked Asil alot, but he seemed very much to view the world from a certain vantage point which he couldn't shake.  Even he admits he is too arrogant and convinced of his own omniscience when Sage tells him about Anna.  It would be interesting what that arrogance and (assumed) omniscience would lead to if Bran were to trust him with any "chores."

Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2008, 02:49:41 pm »
Well, maybe, now that he's not so mind sick, bedevilled by Mariposa, he'll pay more attention, and realize that no, Charles is not a thug.  And, if he learns anything specific of what Anna went through, his opinion of Leo will go in the toilet.
Remember the story about Bran dragging him out of his hothouse to the park?  Like that, only more so.
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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2008, 10:27:05 am »
I'm glad I'm not the only one who liked Sage.  She seems like a lot of fun.  In future stories, I could see her help Anna come out of her shell and start making life interesting in Aspen Creek.  I could also see Sage and Asil getting a little closer.

Avarel

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2008, 08:58:21 pm »
Charles is not a thug. 

SO far we have only seen Charles under circumstances that are not normal. maybe he is a thug.

Sorry, Devils Advocate. I just had to point out the possibility...

ArtAngel

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2008, 10:08:13 pm »
Charles is not a thug. 

SO far we have only seen Charles under circumstances that are not normal. maybe he is a thug.

Sorry, Devils Advocate. I just had to point out the possibility...

Devil's advocate is always fun... Actually I think the whole thug image is Charles' way of hiding who he is, just like Bran acts like a kid in college. I could not tell you where (Alpha and Omega maybe?) but Anna makes a comment about his ability to bottle up and hide his awesome personality. Plus if people think he is a thug they will not want to be friends and he will not have to maybe kill a friend later. I think it's his way of protecting himself from the pain he has seen Bran and Sam go through so often.

Back to Sage and Asil- I can see something happening between them. They would undertand each others pain and help each other through it in a way no one else can. IMHO ;D
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Avarel

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 10:17:44 pm »
yeah, it was in Alpha and Omega.

The Thug with the heart of gold... except we only see the heart of Gold. Huh.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2008, 02:45:15 am »
Charles was forced by his father "to be a thug". I f you are foced to be an assassin you might want to hide who you really are. People must be scared of him.

IMO it says a lot about how ruthless Bran really is. Forcing his son from his beloved mate to become an assassin ... Twisted Dad.

I like Sage and she could/might be Asil's love interest. I really like Asil because he sounds like a southern European. I hope Patty will make some reseach on Latin/Arab culture to get his mentality right.
I am French but I am from the South closed to the Spanish border. I spent lots of time in Spain, I am now living in Italy. I can assure you that our way of seeing the world is VERY different from the Anglo-Saxon way.

Sage seems to be the gossip of the pack. Asil mention that it does not surprise him anymore how she knows about everything happening in the pack   ::)

caerali

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2008, 05:01:41 am »
But isn't it the duty of any Second of a pack to enforce the Alpha's will?  If Charles hadn't agreed to it, even if begrudingly, he wouldn't be there.  He could leave if he didn't want to perform as a Second.  He's more then capable to be an Alpha if he should choose to.

Elle

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2008, 11:26:01 am »
It all comes down to dominance. Charles is the best at what he does because when he acts as an enforcer he has the edge of control. It wouldn't do to have a lesser wolf in the role that had lower dominance than the wolf he was confronting. Like Patty said, Charles is the perfect assasin for that reason. Chances are the wolves he confronts won't be more powerful.

I'm looking forward to learning more about Sage. She's interesting. Asil as well and after the events of Cry Wolf I wonder what role he'll take in the pack. I'm looking forward to Hunting Ground. :)
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caerali

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2008, 04:50:18 pm »
It doesn't appear that Bran has named a Third to replace Samuel.  I assume he would need to, since Samuel has left the Marrok pack's territory.  Asil would be an interesting choice, given Sage being a woman, who would not be allowed to.  Or could she?  With the addition of the Omega Anna to the pack, could it change the way women are treated in North America?

Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2008, 06:34:59 pm »
I just had a "--wait a minute!  We've got a loop/plot hole!" moment.

I thought female werewolves weren't allowed NOT to have mates.  So where's Sages'?
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charmed

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2008, 07:42:46 pm »
Well, she's in the Marrok's pack and he can set his own rules.

Are you sure that they can't be single? I thought it was just that they couldn't be lone wolves or alphas?
« Last Edit: December 27, 2008, 08:16:20 pm by charmed »
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Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2008, 08:13:27 pm »
Nope, I'm not sure.  Wonder if it's in Elle's fact threads somewhere?
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charmed

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2008, 08:16:40 pm »
Hmm, might have to look.
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Elle

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2008, 08:46:25 pm »
You guys are funny.

Yeah it's there. They can be single but all unmated females "technically" belong to the Alpha. So what goes for Sage goes for Mary Jo the unmated firefighter wolf in Adam's pack.
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Elle

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2008, 01:09:08 pm »
The diverged convo has been split and merged into the Wolf Mates thread in the Shared World board.

I really liked Tag in CW. I'm looking forward to more of him. I can't wait to learn about his backstory. Irish, sounds like, I wonder if he's a Euro transplant?
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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2009, 05:57:13 pm »
The secondary characters are awesome!  I think one of the things Mrs. Briggs is so fantastic at is painting such a vivid mental image of a character in just a few sentences, i.e. Tag laying on the back of a couch like a big (big being the operative word) orange cat. And their complexities!  I wondered about Asil and mourned Walter long after I finished the book.

I wonder if Asil's comment to Mariposa about Tag being the next wolf Bran would send implies that he is third?  He may not be more dominant, but he might be considered more stable...

Omega 303

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2009, 10:51:23 am »
Actually I think that since Sam has become a lone wolf then Adam with step up as third since at the time he was fourth, unless someone challenges him for the position. Remember the Marrok and his pack has the oversight of all the werewolves in North America. And Adam is not just the alpha of the Columbia Basin Pack, he is darn near the strongest alpha in the US besides the Marrok and his sons. And I think the Marrok keep those who have special talents within the ranks. Charles as his second is his enforcer and he take care of pack business. Sam as this third is a doctor and has the same force of personality as his father, and Adam he wanted to use as a poster child for werewolves but he was to hot-tempered for that, he is also a good business man and is well spoken when it comes to dealing with the press, HMMM I wonder if thats why Charles had to accompany him to the conference after what happened to Mercy, you know because of the whole temper thing and maybe Anna was there too, to keep things under control. I'm not sure what is fifth, Everest, talents were but it must have been useful for Bran to have him as his fifth.

Ellyll

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2009, 11:07:14 am »
I don't think those rankings were made in that sort of a corporate fashion.  It's a ranking of the dominance of wolves, and Sam's status as a lone wolf wouldn't affect that.  Other things might, but it's not like a job title, if that makes any sense.
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charmed

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2009, 11:17:32 am »
I don't think those rankings were made in that sort of a corporate fashion.  It's a ranking of the dominance of wolves, and Sam's status as a lone wolf wouldn't affect that.  Other things might, but it's not like a job title, if that makes any sense.

That was my understanding too. After all, neither Charles nor Sam are pack Alphas but they are on the list. I believe it's purely a dominance ranking alpha wolves, regardless of any pack standing that they may or may not have.
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Omega 303

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2009, 12:01:46 pm »
Yes I understand the fact about the ranking of the most dominant, but they each have something to contribute that is useful to the Marrok. Like Anna she will now place an very important role in the Marrok's pack as a peacemaker one who can help keep the wolves in the Marrok's pack to be safe and help cut down on death caused by dominance fights. I just assumed he had his reason for the way some of the things are ran because of the statement Charles made to Anna in CW.


Quote
"Anna, don't trust to easily." "If you decide to take da up on his offer to leave, remember he seldom does things for simple motives. He wouldn't be as old as he is, wouldn't hold as much as he does, if he were a simple man. He wants you for his own use."

Ellyll

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2009, 12:03:00 pm »
Yes, that's true, but it's separate from the dominance issue.
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ShadoWolf

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2009, 05:37:08 pm »
Right. I was speculating about Tag being third in the Marrok pack, not in North American dominence. Though I wonder if now that Asil isn't just waiting to die, he might care more about his pack status.  He already thought to offer himself (rather than Tag) to go investigate the Cabinets in the place of injured Charles.
In regard to dominence... I wonder if Mercy's list took Asil into account? He showed up in Aspen Creek fourteen or fifteen years before CW, which was probably after Mercy left and definitely after her foster father would have been telling her of the ranking.

ladylynx

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2009, 07:00:34 pm »
According to Mercy in BC she was sent back to her mother when she was 16 by Bran. Also Mercy's favorite person to tease int he pack is Tag. Those two have a rather unique relationship to one another.

As for Anna's status. Even tho she is outside of pack positions. She is second because of Charles stats in the pack. Remember the women of the pack inherit their positions from their mates. No female is allowed to be an alpha.

Omega 303

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2009, 08:00:05 pm »
As for Anna's status. Even tho she is outside of pack positions. She is second because of Charles stats in the pack. Remember the women of the pack inherit their positions from their mates. No female is allowed to be an alpha


Your right an female takes her position from her mate, But if her mate is an alpha that makes her the alpha female of the pack. And with that position since she draws her strength from her mate every wolf in the pack must obey her unless her mate says otherwise, Like when Bran told Sage to go meet Anna, and Leah tried to override that authority by telling her to leave. At least that is how it's suppose to be in a normal pack, But in the Marrok's pack Charles and Sam seems to out rank Leah, as we seen in Moon Called she submitted to Sam when he found out that she was hunting Mercy. And in CW when Sage dared her to come back when Charles was home, she said that she would have loved to seen that. And now that Mercy is mated to Adam she is the Alpha female of that pack which she made very clear when Darryl's mate who is second tried Challenged her authority on the way back from meeting with the seethe.

Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2009, 08:16:45 pm »
I don't think it's so much that Charles or Sam outrank Leah, (although they do have more natural dominance than she does) it's the fact that she's going counter to what Bran would want, and they all know it.  If she persisted in hunting Mercy, and Charles couldn't have stopped her, he could, and would, have thrashed her himself and hauled her in front of Bran, saying why.  She would very possibly, mate or no, have been executed for murder herself at that point.  THAT was why she submitted to Charles.  And it increased her resentment for all of them, Bran, Charles, and Mercy.
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Avarel

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2009, 08:19:16 pm »
I thought it was sam, not charles.

charmed

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2009, 08:20:18 pm »
It was Sam. Patti's brain is mush from working too hard tonight. :D
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Patti L.

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2009, 08:28:41 pm »
*splot*
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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2009, 08:29:55 pm »
Ooh, my memory worked for once. :)

ShadoWolf

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2009, 09:52:13 am »
But would Mercy's list have taken
Quote
Asil
into account?  My thought was that his last pack was not North American, thus he would not have been in Mercy's list.  Charles said Asil is "plenty dominent" and was "unamused to find out that [Charles] really was more dominent than him."

charmed

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Re: Secondary Character Discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2009, 02:46:28 pm »
But would Mercy's list have taken
Quote
Asil
into account?  My thought was that his last pack was not North American, thus he would not have been in Mercy's list.  Charles said Asil is "plenty dominent" and was "unamused to find out that [Charles] really was more dominent than him."

I think the only way to know that for sure is to ask our hostess, Patty. You could post it in teh "Ask Patty" for this series.
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