Author Topic: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question  (Read 24011 times)

Good Mazoku

  • lovebird
  • Tool Wrangler
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
  • Faint heart never won fair lady.
Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« on: August 04, 2007, 12:03:37 am »
I don't think Mercy will ever try the Change: part of the reason are the risks involved, but mainly because she's too independent to stay in a pack, never mind that she hates most of the pack's rules that right now she can avoid respecting. Moreover, she'd be bound to obedience to Bran and her Alpha (whomever he is)...  ::) However, in order to know what would be the effects, we should consider a lot of variables: for instance, what magic is more powerful, the were's one or the walker's one? And, would one magic prevail on the other, or would they blend into something new?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2007, 03:16:40 am by Good Mazoku »
Crazy Cat Lady on the loose. Beware.


The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

thehuntress

  • Guest
Were-walker
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2007, 01:20:35 am »
I just can't see Mercy attempting the change.  She's too stubborn to give up who she is.  That's part of why she fights the attraction to Adam.  To be honest, I can see that whomever she chooses, the relationship will falter after a few years.  She would probably be much happier long term with someone entirely different (and by different, I do not mean Stefan.  That would have a whole different set of difficulties, despite being a little creepy).

Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to see her happy with one of the weres.

zaw

  • Guest
Were-walker
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2007, 01:45:00 am »
i think she should, but i don't think she will.
(she's such a stubborn hard-ass lol)
i have no problem with a dual walker-were.

zaw

  • Guest
Were-walker
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2007, 01:47:04 am »
a lone-wolf i think

Taphien

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Were-walker
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2007, 07:09:54 am »
I doubt she CAN be changed. Didn't Stefan say something along the lines that she couldn't be turned vampire? I think the same goes turning were.

Good Mazoku

  • lovebird
  • Tool Wrangler
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
  • Faint heart never won fair lady.
Were-walker
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2007, 08:10:42 am »
I think Stephan said that it is unlikely that she can be turned into a vampire, but he's not sure either. But you're right, what with her being immune to most magic, maybe she can't become were.  :)
Crazy Cat Lady on the loose. Beware.


The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Spryte

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • Wheeeeeeeeee!
Were-walker
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2007, 02:22:58 pm »
oh no worries... I don't expect her to go were at all, though it might be interesting... I was jusat wondering if such a thing as a were-walker could occur, and if it could how would it work? But no, I don't think Mercy will try the change (but who knows? She may surprise us) and I am not even sure if I would really want Mercy to be a were-walker.... but it is an interesting little scenario.... Maybe the two forms would sort of merge... a werewolf-coyote cross form, and changing would be less (or more painful depending on which perspective you are looking at), and maybe have all the powers of both, but in a possibly weaker form? Jeez, If we ever see one of these things I hope it's on Mercy's side...
We never really grow up, we just learn how to act in public... for the most part...

jenniwee

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
Were-walker
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2007, 03:34:21 pm »
What really makes this question interesting is not whether or not Mercy would ever try to change (cause I think it's pretty clear she wouldn't) but exactly what kind of were-walker hybrids her children would be.  (Assuming of course she choses Sam or Adam and has kids with him.) 

Mercy seems to be exceedingly rare in the preternatural world.  Stephan seems to imply that even when the vamps first arrived (pretty early in the settlement of the West, if I'm reading that correctly) walkers were not very common. 

The vamps are extremely interested in her, but not IMO just because she can destroy them.  Afterall, Marsilia does not tell the entire seethe about mercy's power until she is forced to at Stephan's trial.  I can't believe her motives would ever be altruistic, so what is it about Mercy that would cause the Mistress to shield her from the rest of the seethe?  In addition, I don't think that Stephan's interest in Mercy is in any way simple or even benevolent.  He is very interested in the survival of his kind and I wonder if he thinks that Mercy could somehow aid in that.

In addition, Bran is extremely protective of Mercy and seems to be very interested in her to the point of shielding her from his son, who thinks that Mercy will cure his heartache.  Basically, I don't think Bran intended Mercy for Samuel.  i think he knows more about walkers than he is letting on, and possibly sees her as the rare and special creature that she is and chose to raise and protect her for those reasons.  I don't think he would have shared this information with Mercy because as she says in BB, Bran prefers to let people discover their strengths and weaknesses themselves (though in that case a warning on demons would probably have been the wiser course of action).

So my question would be what about Mercy is so intriguing to all these people?

Spryte

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • Wheeeeeeeeee!
Were-walker
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2007, 03:56:27 pm »
Well,  she is Mercy. Her..... unusual personality attracts people as well as her being a walker (even if they don't realize it at first). And the children issue is assuming she could even have children if she was changed... we don't know if she would be able to postpone the change untill the end of the pregnancy, and if she did... would it take so much of her strength that she dies as Charles' mother did? Also something the combination of walker and wolf may have a weird effect on.
We never really grow up, we just learn how to act in public... for the most part...

Jerseybean

  • Tool Wrangler
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Were-walker
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2007, 06:52:07 am »
Charles' mother was a walker wasn't she? And she was turned into a were no trouble.  I'm sure it was mentioned in MC that she had to follow the lunar changes and only her magic prevented that when she fell pregnant with Charles.  Stopping the changes then led to her death.  He dosn't seem to have any hybrid wolf/coyote thing going on except (I'm not sure I remember this right) did his change go more quickly/easily?

Taphien

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 36
Were-walker
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2007, 09:55:03 am »
Charles' mother was a walker wasn't she? And she was turned into a were no trouble.  I'm sure it was mentioned in MC that she had to follow the lunar changes and only her magic prevented that when she fell pregnant with Charles.  Stopping the changes then led to her death.  He dosn't seem to have any hybrid wolf/coyote thing going on except (I'm not sure I remember this right) did his change go more quickly/easily?

As far as I remember she was a shaman/shaman-trained.

Good Mazoku

  • lovebird
  • Tool Wrangler
  • *****
  • Posts: 0
  • Faint heart never won fair lady.
Were-walker
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2007, 10:56:57 am »
I don't recall her being a walker either... :-\
Crazy Cat Lady on the loose. Beware.


The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Spryte

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • Wheeeeeeeeee!
Were-walker
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2007, 01:54:22 pm »
I recall something about her being the medicine man's daughter, but I might be just pulling that out of thin air... (I am in a bad(?) habit of creating made-up backgrounds for characters without realizing it  :-[) but as far as I know, she had magic, but wasn't a walker.
We never really grow up, we just learn how to act in public... for the most part...

jenniwee

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 205
Were-walker
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2007, 05:49:59 pm »
Actually, when I said were-walker children, I meant the children Mercy would have when (if) mated to a were.  They would be hybrids becausse of their parents, not because Mercy would Change.

Cole

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 38
  • Der Teufel ist ein Eichhörnchen
Were-walker
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2007, 06:47:01 pm »
or they could be completely different because the children might just be purely human or walker because the walker's resistence to magic might cancel out the were's

There is no place like /~

Spryte

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 186
  • Wheeeeeeeeee!
Re: Were-walker
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2007, 06:17:01 am »
yeah I just reread the post and went "duh! why didn't I read that right the first time?!"
But it would be interesting to see what happens... would they be full human, full walker, full were, or were-walker, or would it be a mix of all four (one kid is a human, one a were, one a walker, ect.)
We never really grow up, we just learn how to act in public... for the most part...

Nifty

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 438
Were-walker, or what would happen if Mercy gets infected
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2008, 02:18:24 pm »
A question from the Ask Patty section: 
Quote
First, of course is the question, prevents the walker-status a were-status? I would think not, but who knows (except the author).
Of course that would lead to the question where are the other were-walkers? Well, as far as I understand is an walker extreeeeeemly rare. So it actually could happen that there never where any were-walkers (the Vamps came over rahter early into the walker-area, and began their genocide).

Now, if it is possible that an walker can be infected, what will be the result (with her integration into the werewolf-society an obvious question)?

Best case, all the advantages and none of the drawbacks. Means, mercy would have the wolf-strength, the wolf-regeneration etc. but would retain the walker-speed and most important the walker-controll.

Able to withstand the call of the moon, practically imortal etc.

Worst case she will become an standard were, and loose the walker completely.

I, for one, would really NOT like to see Mercy become a were-anything...other than the Walker she already is.  One of the things I like best about Mercy as an urban-fantasy protagonist is that she's very limited...and yet she still gets the job done.  I LIKE that she doesn't have super-strength or super-speed or super-healing ability.  I like that when she's in her non-human form, she's just a little ol' 35-pound coyote, no different from any other coyote except for her human intellect.  I like that because he IS limited in her abilities, she has to rely on her friends for help.  Protagonists with limitations give me a reason to cheer...and to keep me reading...because 1) it's fun to root for the underdog and 2) it's plausible to believe that maybe, just maybe, the protagonist WON'T win.   Don't get me wrong...of course I WANT Mercy to always win in the end.  But part of what keeps me interested in her story is the fear that maybe she'll come up against something that will best her.  It's just more fun to read about her triumphs when she's so much less -- supernatural-ability-wise -- than her opponents. 

I could not deprive you of the realization of all you could accomplish together, and of a friendship that will define you both in ways you cannot begin to imagine.

berneynator

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: Were-walker, or what would happen if Mercy gets infected
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2008, 03:24:00 pm »
Question- in the event of a walker's transformation into a werewolf, would the walker stop being able to become a coyote? Have both forms? Or does the coyote simply stay as other-form but include the weres' special abilities? And by the way, I also very much like Mercy's ingenuity and the involvement of her friends. It makes them seem more like characters and real, integral parts of Mercy's life than cutouts. It also shows that Mercy understands the value of asking for help and isn't stupid enough to let pride overpower sense. If she has a friend who can help, she usually asks for it. Also, you get to find out all sorts of neat things about the side characters, like Ben the not-rapist and skillful scarer of teenage boys, or Kyle the defense lawyer.

Schlinkie

  • Guest
Re: Were-walker, or what would happen if Mercy gets infected
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2008, 12:26:11 pm »
Well, unless there was some freak moose attack, I don't see Mercy willingly trying to Change given her control issues.

But hypothetically, would she even be able to be infected?  She is magic-resistant in other areas, so it's possible the werewolf magic wouldn't work on her and she would just die. 

Assuming she was able to Change though, the walker magic is an innate ability so it doesn't seem like she could lose it, it would just be part of her "human" side.  She would still have to change into a wolf with the moon, or with her emotions, and go through a painful change to that form, but would be able to slip into her coyote form whenever she was calm.

I really don't think the were magic would work on her though, due to her magical resistance.  Plus, she does refer to her "coyote side" the way the weres refer to their wolves in Iron Kissed when Fideal is chasing her. 

"Sudden, unreasoning fear clenched my stomach until I regretted the Diet Coke.  That I had no real reason for the fear didn't lessen its impact.  The coyote had decided I was ignoring her and insisted that he was a threat." IK p. 186

To me, it really seems like a wolf side wouldn't be able to take over since there already is a second aspect there.

berneynator

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 28
Re: Were-walker, or what would happen if Mercy gets infected
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2008, 06:42:43 pm »
To me, it really seems like a wolf side wouldn't be able to take over since there already is a second aspect there.


Hmmm.... I don't quite understand what you mean. Why wouldn't the other personality/form/whatever be able to overpower the human one... or *flash of insight* do you mean specifically in a walker-were, and the "second aspect" you refer to is the coyote?

Schlinkie

  • Guest
Re: Were-walker, or what would happen if Mercy gets infected
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2008, 07:33:18 pm »
Yeah, I meant the coyote as a second "personality?" within Mercy.  The weres have the human side? aspect? and the wolf, like how Samuel was able to have the wolf accept Mercy as his mate before the human side loved her.  Mercy doesn't talk about her coyote side as much as the weres talk about the wolf side, so it isn't really clear if the coyote is another side or just another shape, but then in Iron Kissed she is talking about the coyote as a "she" as if she is another person/mind/something outside of Mercy. I'm really not sure what the proper word is.  But then when Mercy is in her coyote form she doesn't have coyote taking over or anything, she's still Mercy.  But we don't get to be inside the head of any of the weres in wolf or human form to compare though either.  I suppose we will get to more with Anna in Cry Wolf.

Hrm...not sure if I'm making any sense.

Here's a Samuel quote from Iron Kissed "Look, I know my father spends a lot of time trying to convince the new wolves that the human and wolf are two halves of a whole -- but that's not really true.  It is just easier to live with and most of the time it's so close to being truth that it doesn't matter.  But we're different, the wolf and the human.  We think differently." p 136

Now the fact that Sam is explaining this to Mercy means that the interaction between the coyote & her is different than the wolf & Sam, but that quote about the coyote deciding Mercy was ignoring her really stood out to me as coyote being something separate from Mercy.

So then, if there is already Mercy & coyote in Mercy, could there really be Mercy, coyote and wolf?  If coyote is just another shape and she is only Mercy, then she could be Mercy & wolf, and I think then she could still shift to coyote or change into wolf.

Also, thinking more on the thread about Mercy aging...

http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=848.0

I had thought there really wouldn't be any way Mercy would try to go through the Change, given how she struggles against the pack structure and is afraid of the Alpha making her do things she doesn't want to.  But would Adam try to pressure Mercy into trying to Change, if she does age and he is afraid of losing her?  Obviously wouldn't be something happening any time soon, but if we're talking hypotheticals...?

MadMcAl

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 41
Re: Were-walker, or what would happen if Mercy gets infected
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2008, 08:29:47 am »
Actually the age-question was what started the thought-line for me. But it didn't end there.

Think about it, the innate ability of an walker is rather close to the gained ability of an werewolf.

Or, in other words, a walker who changes into an coyote is not so very far away from an werewolf who changes into an wolf.

We also know that with the help of the native american magic it is possible to "create" an enhanced werewolf, who changes forms in unreached time (except of course Mercy as an walker, who is even faster).
So the idea now was that it could create an synergy-effect between walker-magic and werewolf-magic, creating an sort of super-werewolf.
The speed and controll of the walker (including the ability to not change forms at full moon, what of course would make her endangered by every other female werewolf *g*) and the strength and regeneration of the werewolf (including the eternal youth).

The innate magic resistance is just that. A resistance. Not a immunity. So it should be possible to infect her.
And, even if the werewolf-community untill now hasn't thought about using immune-supression-drugs to aid the transformation (and even if until now there were practially no omegas to preserve the sanity of the transformed), when this question comes to Mercy out of old age, I can't see that it will not be used.
Remember, the weres are not longer limited to the services of 2 MD's, but can now use whole research labs if so wished.
Si vis pacem, para bellum!

Talyn

  • Tool Wrangler
  • *
  • Posts: 0
  • Technomage
Re: Fairy Brew?
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2008, 08:15:23 pm »
I wonder, if Mercy is not immortal, and she decided to become a were.... what would she become?

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C Clarke

CheeseBK

  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 198
  • I am from AUSTRIA. No koalas!
    • my livejournal
Re: Fairy Brew?
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2008, 10:32:08 pm »
talyn,
but I guess Mercy's innate magic might prevent her from getting infected in the first place...


GW  WK  WH

little gray wolf

  • Auto-Zauberer
  • *****
  • Posts: 556
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2010, 03:22:22 pm »
Adam says that he wouldn't change a hair on her head
Howl more, whine less

Patti L.

  • Administrator
  • Hostess of Hurog
  • *
  • Posts: 13002
  • Not PattY Briggs. Keeper of the fluffy vortex.
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2012, 01:30:26 pm »
Just skimmed over this thread, and it's interesting how much information we now have on these subjects touched on here.  Let's see...
1. Mercy's children will not be walkers, because unless one parent is the Primal, the gene has to come from both parents.
2. Mercy being a first generation walker, she probably can't be changed to a werewolf, her genetic make up is probably... DNAdamantium, if you will.
3. We still don't know if she could have werewolf children, but she can probably carry babies to term without any particular difficulty otherwise. 
4. We don't have to worry about "what if she chooses Samuel over Adam" any more. LOL
We've had our toad for the 2020s, it's got to get better from here!
But do beware the toad burps.

Zealith

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Pack Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2360
    • dragcaves
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2012, 08:29:05 am »
On 1- are you sure? I was under the impression that is had been so long since the Primals had mingled with humans that that was the case. It seemed like it was implied that it took generations before Coyote's first daugheter's decendents lost the ability.
.

Patti L.

  • Administrator
  • Hostess of Hurog
  • *
  • Posts: 13002
  • Not PattY Briggs. Keeper of the fluffy vortex.
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2012, 08:34:09 am »
Good point, Z.  Maybe that would be something to Ask Patty.  Of course, Coyote seems to have more descendants anchoring him here than most of the primals >D so his power may be somewhat stronger than that of most of the others, but he isn't what he once was, now is he?
We've had our toad for the 2020s, it's got to get better from here!
But do beware the toad burps.

Kkat07

  • writers
  • Mechanic
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2012, 09:12:01 am »
I agree with Zealith unless we hear otherwise.
"The chief's daughter, who was, for a while, Coyote's wife, had a daughter-and she could walk as coyote or human, and so could her sons."
I think Mercy's children have a chance of being walkers, even if her grandchildren don't. I would think the walker magic would have to last for at least a few generations, otherwise you wouldn't have enough walkers to start a self-sustaining population.
WAKE THE SANTAMIND. -Eric James Stone

Grandpappy Wycked

  • Pack Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1045
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2012, 09:58:32 am »
What has me the most curious is if her offspring could be an actual Were-Walker in the way Charles is a Were-Medicine Man. If for instance, she were to have a Daughter, and the magic of the Were and the magic of the Walker merged, allowing her to say have the strength, stamina and Sister Coyote (I can't see Wolf out ruling Coyote in one of Coyote's offspring) of the Were, but the ability to change like a Walker. Does this also lay the ground work for her Grand Children following along with the same effect...
Sanity has Left The Building.
Please Contact Patti L. for further instructions.

Moonbeam

  • Tool Wrangler
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2012, 01:54:00 am »
What has me the most curious is if her offspring could be an actual Were-Walker in the way Charles is a Were-Medicine Man. If for instance, she were to have a Daughter, and the magic of the Were and the magic of the Walker merged, allowing her to say have the strength, stamina and Sister Coyote (I can't see Wolf out ruling Coyote in one of Coyote's offspring) of the Were, but the ability to change like a Walker. Does this also lay the ground work for her Grand Children following along with the same effect...
Still... it would be interesting if the mix caused a child between Adam and Mercy to be 100% walker, but their other form was a regular wolf instead of a regular coyote. :D As much as Mercy confuses werewolves, a wolf walker would get their goat even more. They would be like, "Wait a minute... a creature that changes between human and wolf, but she is NOT a werewolf? wtf?"

big city wolf

  • Grease Monkey
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2012, 10:52:15 am »
Maybe they would look like Eastern Coyote/Coywolfs.

http://www.easterncoyoteresearch.com/

Elle

  • Lone Wolf
  • Administrator
  • Senior Pack Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2287
Re: Mercy and the Were-Walker Question
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2012, 08:36:56 am »
I don't think I've actually ever seen a picture of a Coywolf. Gorgeous. That would be fun if they looked similar but had the dog markings like the weres do.
Hurog Means Dragon.