The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Mercy Thompson | A&O Books Board => The Weres => Published Books => Topic started by: midnight on February 18, 2013, 01:50:09 am

Title: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: midnight on February 18, 2013, 01:50:09 am
Edited to Add: Here be spoilers. Release date and beyond no need for spoiler bars. Elle


Just out of curiosity, Mike mentioned on the front page that reviews had already started to come in.  :D As I'm one of these people who are desperately impatient for march, I was wondering if anyone had found any. I've had a look but couldn't find any.

 :D :-whistle I know I'm sad but the whole part of having Adam's point of view is driving me crazy. It just can't come fast enough.  bOuNcY



Title: Re: Early reviews
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on February 18, 2013, 04:50:21 am
I found a couple reviews on Goodreads and, of course, it sounds like it is a great book!  A little over a month till we get it bOuNcY
Title: Re: Early reviews
Post by: Janilee on February 18, 2013, 09:31:34 am
http://fangswandsandfairydust.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/Frost-Burned.html?zx=7935873b2052d682

Not certain if she got an ARC or is doing a review on the posted chapters.  No real spoilers in my opinion.

[Edited to Add]: This review has spoilers in it. Elle
Title: Re: Early reviews
Post by: Baum Diggity on February 18, 2013, 11:49:11 am
I dunno...that last bit of the review may cause you to foam at the mouth with speculation.

In summary for those not wanting to speculate further: The book is amazing. Read it in a few weeks and scream with joy/rage/emotional unbalance.
Title: Re: Early reviews
Post by: charmed on February 18, 2013, 05:25:51 pm
I posted a review (I received a copy from the publisher). No spoilers - http://beasbooknook.blogspot.com/2013/02/review-of-frost-burned-by-patricia.html
Title: Re: Early reviews
Post by: BillG on February 19, 2013, 03:45:18 am
Charmed, I enjoyed your review, and loved your pointing out that Mercy's initials are now MATH! Coyote, indeed. Those are her initials, and for her the logic of math just doesn't add up.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on February 19, 2013, 02:18:14 pm
Because of the early reviews coming in I've started this thread earlier than usual. This isn't a speculation thread this is the spoiler thread and because of that and the fact that the book isn't released until March 5th all spoiler talk here will be spoiler-barred please.

We'll keep the bars on any spoilers brought in from reviews only until the release date of the book. After that they'll be removed for ease of discussion.

Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on February 20, 2013, 10:36:28 am
The 'getting the gunk out of the pack' bits were really interesting, IMO.  I'm really agog to learn what ticked Tad off, now.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Wildfire on February 23, 2013, 06:07:54 am
Finished it the other night and I think it's one of the best Mercy books. Loved seeing things from Adams POV especially. Beautifully written, full of action and very emotional. Only very, very slight negative for me was one of the regular characters wasnt in the book at all but to be honest the reason for it was fair it was just me missing hearing from them! I don't want to put major spoilers on until the book is released properly but it's fair to say its not a disappointment and worth the wait!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: midnight on February 25, 2013, 10:22:08 am
I loved this book. I think it's fair to say that it might well be my favourite so far. Lots of twists, fantastic characters, amazing pace of telling the story. Just brilliant.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on February 25, 2013, 04:42:10 pm
Man, now I really can't wait for this book to come out!  I am hearing some really wonderful things and the time just can't come fast enough!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Has on March 02, 2013, 02:27:40 pm
We had some treats for our Frost Burned speculation chat - with permission we got some additional quotes to tease you all with the wait for Frost Burned coming out this Tuesday!




“Who are you?” I asked the werewolf, again.
He smiled again, though his eyes were cool. “Asil, Ms. Hauptman. You might also know me as the Moor, though I find the title overly dramatic and wouldn’t have mentioned it, but that you would find it, perhaps, a little more recognizable.”
I gripped Kyle’s arm a little more tightly. I knew who the Moor was. The Moor was a scary, scary wolf who I’d thought was merely a story, like the Beast of Gevaudan.



Jesse, with the littlest Sandoval on her hip and her hair mussed and damped, waded through the crowd and kissed her dad on the cheek. She rested against him for a moment. “Welcome home, Dad.”
He hugged her hard, then relaxed his hold to ruffle Maia’s hair.
Maia said, “I rode in a car with a dead body.”
Adam gave me a laughing glance. “I guess we might as well tell everyone the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”
“It’s a secret,” Maia explained.
“He ruffled her hair again. “Yes. But not a secret from your mom. You shouldn’t keep those.”
“I tell Mama everything.”
“Good for you.”
 


“I promise I won’t spank you,” he told me, his voice rough and low as he added, “not unless you ask me to.”
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on March 03, 2013, 04:25:15 am
We had some treats for our Frost Burned speculation chat - with permission we got some additional quotes to tease you all with the wait for Frost Burned coming out this Tuesday!




“Who are you?” I asked the werewolf, again.
He smiled again, though his eyes were cool. “Asil, Ms. Hauptman. You might also know me as the Moor, though I find the title overly dramatic and wouldn’t have mentioned it, but that you would find it, perhaps, a little more recognizable.”
I gripped Kyle’s arm a little more tightly. I knew who the Moor was. The Moor was a scary, scary wolf who I’d thought was merely a story, like the Beast of Gevaudan.



Jesse, with the littlest Sandoval on her hip and her hair mussed and damped, waded through the crowd and kissed her dad on the cheek. She rested against him for a moment. “Welcome home, Dad.”
He hugged her hard, then relaxed his hold to ruffle Maia’s hair.
Maia said, “I rode in a car with a dead body.”
Adam gave me a laughing glance. “I guess we might as well tell everyone the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”
“It’s a secret,” Maia explained.
“He ruffled her hair again. “Yes. But not a secret from your mom. You shouldn’t keep those.”
“I tell Mama everything.”
“Good for you.”
 


“I promise I won’t spank you,” he told me, his voice rough and low as he added, “not unless you ask me to.”


Love the quotes and so glad that Asil is in this book.  He is definitely one of my favorites.  Just a couple more days to go!!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on March 05, 2013, 06:35:04 am
What? No late night reading binges?  >D
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 05, 2013, 06:52:05 am
IT'S HERE!  IT'S HERE!   bOuNcY bOuNcY bOuNcY bOuNcY

Ok.  Going to start reading.  Perfect day too!  We got a bunch of snow last night so everything is closed.  Tons and tons of snow and it's still coming down. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 05, 2013, 07:10:17 am
Oh my... on Chapter 2.  Anything I say is going to be too much of a spoiler, not a reason for it really a this point, so I'm shutting up.  It is intense so far though.  Yeah, i know spoilers are 'fair game' now, but it's just not time yet!   9)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Suzi on March 05, 2013, 12:44:07 pm
its here bOuNcY bOuNcY bOuNcY bOuNcY bOuNcY

Parents are threatening to confiscate it and lock it up (I've had my nose in it since I came home from work) so came on here to celebrate. brilliant so far, can't wait to see what happens next.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on March 05, 2013, 12:59:37 pm
 :D Viking burial for the Rabbit!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: YuleRule on March 05, 2013, 01:10:27 pm
Just finished reading the book. The novel was too short by half! Anticipation was so long, and now I just rushed through it. I guess now its time to go more slowly and dissect everything.

I'm really happy we finally get to meet Tad onscreen. I wonder if Marsilia still hates Mercy as much as she did before. This is Mercy's fourth vampire kill (I think), and the third who was significantly powerful.
Where/when will the pack get a new submissive? I'm getting the feel that without a submissive, it would be hard for the pack to stay coherent.

Now we've seen Asil both from Anna's and Mercy's perspective.

Now I can't wait for the next book! Either Alpha & Omega or Mercy or anything in this universe.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 05, 2013, 01:19:44 pm
I'm wondering if Tad has glamour or not, or if he only uses a sort of mild version of it for what's discussed at the scene with the police.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 05, 2013, 03:59:32 pm
Just finished reading!  It was great!  Love it! 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on March 05, 2013, 04:46:13 pm
No need for the black bars past the release date everyone. :)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: gingkogirl on March 05, 2013, 05:55:15 pm
I got up at 5:30 am, skipped my yoga class and started reading. I finished earlier today and am pondering the events of the novel a bit. Overall, Frost Burned was a satisfying read with a lot of fun but the biggest question in my mind is, "What is Mercy going to drive now!?"
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 05, 2013, 07:18:25 pm
Ok....so no more black bars.  I'm curious about something.  Was anyone wondering what was going on with Honey?  I thought she liked/respected Mercy.  In IK, she was the one that told Mercy about what was going on with Adam and the pack.  Now all of a sudden she doesn't like Mercy anymore?  I'm very confused. 

I am so sad to hear about Peter.  It just isn't right!  I enjoyed listening to Adam's POV.  I also glad that this whole mess didn't turn into an all out war with the US Government. 

Tony and that government guy (can't remember his name) saw Mercy change into a coyote.  Is it now time to tell Tony what Mercy is? 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 05, 2013, 07:31:25 pm
Unlike Fair Game, which WOULD NOT download at midnight and I had to stay up an extra hour just to get it... FB downloaded at ten 'til. 
'course, I didn't have anything better to do than read FG right away, and I sadly had to take a break to sleep and go to work.

Anyway.  A few thoughts.

I am constantly surprised when werewolves choose to live in apartments or condos.  I mean, I know Samuel is generally the gregarious type but I'm a mere human (and I have a parrot who isn't all that quiet, except as parrots go), and there were certain times when the noises my neighbors made were enough to make me fantasize about physical harm coming to them. (ETA: even in my current house, which is not connected to neighbors and has TREES!  :-LOVE in the backyard, my neighbors sometimes make enough noise to tick me off... or at worst make me feel vaguely claustrophobic).  So I was surprised that he chose a condo.  and sad that he wasn't actually a player in this book. 

But we did get Asil... though I didn't think his personality came through as clearly in this book as it does in the A&O books.  Part of that, of course, was the uncertainty with him and Adam, with Asil being outside of his own territory.  Asil and everyone else knows where he stands in Bran's pack... and what he can get away with. 

BTW... did we ever get a really solid confirmation of who won out in the world of "Bigger, Badder Wolves: Adam Hauptman v. Asil the Moor"?  I kind of picked up a suspicion that whether by pretending (as Charles suggested that Asil sometimes does), by virtue of Adam's being an Alpha, or simply because Adam is just that BA, Adam came out on top.  But I don't think it's ever spelled out specifically. 

And speaking of the dominance question, this brings up something I've been wondering about for quite some time.  Bran is obviously pretty darn BA.  He can keep a lid on ALL of the wolves of an entire continent.  That takes some serious mojo.  Charles says in Cry Wolf that even Bran can't truly force him to do anything; which tells me that he's pretty darn close to Bran's equal (for comparison, Adam seems capable of laying some real smack-down on Darryl).  My personal feeling is that Samuel may be even closer to Charles's equal.  Asil was shocked to find that Charles is truly more dominant than he himself is... but we dont' know how closely ranked they really are, of course.  Adam knows Samuel outranks him, but he seems pretty tightly packed into this knot, as well, and as I mention above, I've got something of a suspicion that Asil has fitted himself into this puzzle as the Fifth-ranking werewolf in all of North America.  So, now that I've established my facts... I keep wondering how many wolves are in this tightly-packed knot at the top, or whether there's a break after a certain number of individuals.  Not necessarily between #5 and #6.  But somewhere close there. 


Anyways, back to our regularly-scheduled programing. 
LOVED the Adam POV moments.

And I do hope that Bran transplants a new submissive into Adam's pack.  (though the thought that just jumped to mind was "oooh, we could suggest that in the meantime Adam's pack could borrow Anna!" just because I think I'd be amused by Charles's reaction to that.) 

Oh... and Ben just keeps getting better and better, doesn't he? 


marci - Honey and Mercy have had a bit of an up-and-down (but mostly down) relationship.  It's been on the downswing particularly since the fight with Mary Jo and Paul and Henry.  And Honey just lost her mate; it's making her particularly temperamental.  Consider things from Honey's perspective:
She's a dominant wolf mated to a submissive. The submissive is meant to be protected at all costs.  Mercy is a coyote - not even a wolf! - that Honey doesn't particularly care for (for multiple reasons that basically come down to personality conflict and prejudices) and mated to the Alpha.  And whose mate came home safe (yet again)?  Mercy-the-coyote's.  AND Mercy got to help Adam, as she has before.  Honey was totally helpless to defend Peter. 
It doesn't make me like Honey any better, but I can see her perspective. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Has on March 05, 2013, 08:49:56 pm
I'm going to post my thoughts tomorrow but the noise thing about Sam. I think it makes sense he's in the condo. In Moon Called Mercy states she has to sleep with the radio on low to get some rest because of the quiet noise which was distracting. And Arianna may feel comfortable and safer in the city than in the country side and I can see Sam wanting her to be happy and he's a carefree sort.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 05, 2013, 09:13:58 pm
I'm going to post my thoughts tomorrow but the noise thing about Sam. I think it makes sense he's in the condo. In Moon Called Mercy states she has to sleep with the radio on low to get some rest because of the quiet noise which was distracting. And Arianna may feel comfortable and safer in the city than in the country side and I can see Sam wanting her to be happy and he's a carefree sort.
Mercy turns on the radio to create a consistent low-level noise to cover the changeable background noises, not to cover the quiet.  Earplugs created too much quiet, because then she couldn't hear at all so she felt she couldn't hear trouble, either.  But if you live too close together, if you have neighbors who don't have the same schedule as you, they're going to CREATE distracting background noise.  We (humans) learn to sleep through the majority of normal, regular sounds of our own homes (like a family member who snores, loud ventilation, normal traffic noise)... but other humans like to cause unpredictable noises that can disturb our rest.  For instance, people with loud radios.  Or people thundering up and down the stairs outside your door at all hours.  That one neighbor with the diesel truck he sometimes parks outside your window.  The neighbors downstairs who apparently didn't realize how thin the walls were and really needed to keep it in their own personal Naughty Corner.  And so on. 

I have a hard time comprehending the city-dweller mentality, I have to admit. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Has on March 05, 2013, 09:24:38 pm
Sorry I meant that LOL  its 5.22 in the morning and my brain is not in gear but I think if Sam isn't bothered by that its not a huge issue where he lives. And I suspect he lived in a cramped apartment in Texas when he pretended to be a poor student.  So he must be used to living in the cities - and I am a city dweller and you just tune it out- I live close to a railway line and tube so you can imagine the ambient noise at times!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 05, 2013, 10:39:27 pm
Well, there's living in cramped housing because you have to or because you have good reason (posing as a poor college student/med student is good reason IMO)... and then there's living in cramped housing when you have other options available.

I can sleep through trains, no problem.  I live close to the tracks now, and I did in Missouri, too. Cars, now... I can't sleep with the windows open because every time a car goes by, it jolts me awake. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Bean on March 05, 2013, 11:00:13 pm
Just finished a little while ago and am still processing.

I have one question. Did we ever find out who the info-guy was? I feel like Cantrip was to a certain extent but there were somethings they wouldn't have known, like the info about the drugs, especially.

Anyway, I was surprised by Honey's hostility as well. I thought she and Mercy were developing a strange, kind of fragile bond. Mercy doesn't have any female friends, really, I thought Honey especially would be an interesting one since they seem to be polar opposites.

Although I did find it really interesting that a big dilemma for Honey is that she doesn't want to be dominant and she actually wanted the low status in the pack that being Peter's mate gave her.

Peter.  :-'
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 06, 2013, 06:29:49 am
Kyria, I think that Sam is able to live in a condo because he is used to it.  He really isn't like your average werewolf really.  He works in the Emergency Room and not many werewolves can be in a busy ER without losing it.  I also think that Aria it to Aria's comfort too, as someone pointed out. 

Bean, the information guy was the vampire, Frost.  It was all a ploy to take the vampire seethe once again.  He just found the unhappy Cantrip agents and gave them the information to kill/capture the werewolves.  We also know that the mercenaries that were hired know about this drug too.  Wonder how many others have figured it out? 

Marsilia really owes Mercy and Adam BIG TIME!  She has used them a second time to help her stop an invasion of her Seethe.  I am also really worried about Stephan.  I also didn't realize that he left the Seethe completely.  I thought he was going back?  Why in the world didn't he tell Mercy what was going on?  It is all very confusing. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Bean on March 06, 2013, 09:39:13 am
Frost was the money guy. I thought there was a different info guy who would know about the drug and about each and every member of the pack, including the ones who weren't out. I don't think Frost would have access to that kind of information.

Stefan's situation is concerning. I guess vampires don't need a seethe the way a werewolf needs a pack, but he doesn't seem like the type to want to be isolated. And being away from the seethe seems to be making him more vampire-like. At least he's physically healthy now, which is good.


Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: jacalynsue on March 06, 2013, 12:33:39 pm
I definitely loved the book. Now that I have read it once, I want to go back and digest it more slowly.

A couple of lingering things....

Why is Mercy even thinking about giving up the garage? It's mentioned near the beginning and the end, but no reason for her mulling it over is ever given.

Why didn't Mercy help Peter talk to Honey one last time? I can only hope it happened off stage, but I didn't get the feeling that it did. And that would have been so helpful to Honey, not to mention a great way for Mercy to help mitigate Honey's current ill feelings towards her. 
Title: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Janilee on March 06, 2013, 03:03:12 pm
It is a good world to visit. :)
Title: Re: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Varg on March 06, 2013, 03:04:16 pm
Yes.

How about Wulfe scaring the scary sword. That made me laugh a bit.
Title: Re: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Janilee on March 06, 2013, 03:06:53 pm
That was a good scene. I also liked the one where Asil and Zee admitted they knew each other.
Title: Re: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Varg on March 06, 2013, 03:17:34 pm
Yes. Just proves the world is not as big as we think.

Also liked the scene when they get to Kyles house and Maia tells of being in a car with a  dead body.
Title: Re: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Janilee on March 06, 2013, 03:18:02 pm
 :D That was cool! LOL
Title: Re: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Varg on March 06, 2013, 03:20:19 pm
Yep. The Sandovals are great! LOL
Title: Re: Re: Frost Burned in March
Post by: Janilee on March 06, 2013, 03:25:38 pm
Glad the feud is over.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: BillG on March 06, 2013, 03:47:25 pm
I had Frost as the money guy, too, and looking back I don't recall who supplied the intel. :-[
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: mimi on March 06, 2013, 04:06:05 pm
Wow!  What a great way to spend the better part of a (non snow) snow-day!  Warm coffee, a fire in the fireplace and Patti's latest book.  Does it get any sweeter?  No!!

Lots of questions got answered, but now we have a whole slew of new ones.  Like, where the bleep was Samuel?  Just how powerful is Tad?  What, if anything, is going to happen to Wulfe?  Will Mercy give up the garage?  (Given that she's been spending so much of her time dealing with the chaos that her life has become, she really doesn't have much time to spend in the garage - I think that's the reason she's considering it.  It's been alluded to in the past.)  And, what about the baby-making?!

Anyway, many thanks again, Patti!! :-*
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Bean on March 06, 2013, 04:28:48 pm
I had Frost as the money guy, too, and looking back I don't recall who supplied the intel. :-[

I'm already rereading it.  LOL  I'm going to be on the look-out for that info. As I recall there were three culprits: money guy, info guy, and action guy. I don't think those were the actual terms used, but it's what I can remember. Anyway, the money guy was Frost, the action guy was Jones and his Cantrip group and the info guy ... IIRC they had some suspicions but they didn't say who it was.

So, yeah, I'm going to be looking for that while I'm rereading.  8)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on March 06, 2013, 04:37:20 pm
There was some talk of info guy being supplied by Gerry the werewolf killed in Moon Callled because he had all the pack info when keeping track of the lone wolves. I think info guy is still around but no source for him/her for newer info.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Zealith on March 06, 2013, 04:42:04 pm
The info guy might pop up later. I suppose he might have slipped their minds what with so much else going on.

Just finished reading it myself, and I have to say, I really enjoyed this one, but not as much as RM. Maybe another read through might help though.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Avarel on March 06, 2013, 05:22:59 pm
Loved it!!!!

I was so sad about Peter  :-' .

I thought it was cool that this time Adam rescued himself when he got kidnapped (unlike in Moon Called).
I keep thinking about why Asil was switched out with Samuel. What did Bran need Samuel for that Asil couldn't do? Otherwise why did he send Asil instead of Samuel?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 06, 2013, 06:34:54 pm
Maybe Bran needed Samuel for something and THEN (ie, once Samuel was already out on the job) he realized he needed someone to go to Washington (state, that is).  Perhaps Charles needed a hand with something (I feel like Charles ought to be second choice for sending to help Mercy with Adam's pack, given that Adam knows Charles and the tension between him and Asil could have been avoided that way)?  Perhaps the answer will come in the form of a short story in the upcoming anthology (I can hope, right!!?)? 
As for what Samuel can do that Asil can't - regardless of the concerns recently over Samuel's state of mind, he does still have the control to work as an emergency room doctor.  He can be sent in, if need be, for bloodier or more delicate situations than Asil could manage.  He is also, as Mercy points out a few times, very good with young/new werewolves and [human] children.  AND another thing... Samuel isn't out, remember?  We can't have the feds knowing that Dr. Samuel Cornick is a werewolf, not if he wants to continue practicing medicine.  Though I'm kind of surprised that Asil is out. 

As for Adam's self-rescue, well, we can't ALWAYS have Mercy as deus ex machina.  Also, this time he had a better idea of what was affecting him, so he was better able to respond to it.  And he didn't manage it completely without Mercy's influence, after all. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 06, 2013, 08:04:27 pm
Is this the last Mercy book?  I feel like there are so many unanswered questions.  Is Mercy really going to give up the garage?  What's really going on with the fey?  Is Stephen going to recover?  Is Mercy ever going to be accepted into the pack?  Is the US really going to accept the werewolves?  What about Mercy changing in front of the Cantrip guy?  What are the consequences of those actions?  What about Tony?  Is he finally going to ask what Mercy is?  Is Marsillia going to be pissed at Mercy for killing yet another vampire?     

I'm pretty sure that one of the short stories will tell us where Samuel was because I think that Patty said that they were going to be 2 short stories on Samuel.  To be honest, I am kind of hoping for the back story of what happend when he met Ariana for at least one of them, but I don't know if we have any information about what his books are going to be about. 

I kind of get the impression that Adam and Mercy are tired of each other being in danger.  I would also really like to see Adam's view of himself change for the better.  He still thinks of himself as a monster and it is extremely frustrating. 

Did anyone catch when Adam made a comment about his change being faster?  Wonder if that is one of the gifts that Mercy was able to give him?

Also, someone made a comment about Mercy not coming to the rescue.  She didn't in the literal sense, however, she did suck the silver out of his system.  That was able to help him to be able to fight better, plus, saved his life because she felt him die. 

Just some thoughts.  Let me know what you guys think. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 06, 2013, 11:25:38 pm
I actually got just a little hope that Asil has been able to come to terms about his mate now that she's truly at rest, possibly in part due to Anna being in Aspen Creek which has given him a leg up on some stability for what is essentially a whole new grieving process.  Also, that if he's able to venture out a little more, he's able to recover from some of the boredom of his long life and able to regain at least some interest in life.  He certainly seemed to have at least a little fun with his quips to Tad about Adam and Mercy flirting and such.  Humor is always a good sign IMO. 

While I agree Adam and Mercy may wish they had a bit more boredom, Adam is an Alpha with a pack and he's not likely to get much of a break, and they both fully know that neither one of them are in any way able to take a pass on doing their duty or ignoring something that might put either their pack or the mundanes around them at risk... so no, not too much of a break for them!  Maybe, a short story with some of the mundane stuff in their lives could be a bit fun too in it's own way.  Really though, one of the things I really like about Patties writing is she almost always has a story within the story, and a couple intermissions for some really good humor.  I don't mean that facetiously, I think it's totally great!

Oh, I noticed that about how Adam did settle the kidnapping himself, with the help of the pack at the end, but yeah, Mercy played a real supporting role in it, and stayed as low key as possible after the fact, though I suspect Warren and Daryl at least are pretty sure how much good she did them, possibly a few others too.   Thank goodness for Zee huh?  I mean, all that silver?  Would be sure to mess with her liver and kidneys at the very least, and stomach, all her organs, ya gotta figure that even though she is magic and maybe it wouldn't have killed her outright, good thing Zee was able to step in quickly, he probably saved her from a long slow and painful poisoning!  Even if she is magic enough for it not to poison her somehow, their not being able to touch for long let alone kiss?  A-W-K-W-A-R-D !

Ah, I don't think Tony is going to be too surprised about Mercy changing, she's been mistaken for some sort of supernatural creature so often and he's too good a cop not to be completely suspicious, so I bet he's relieved to have some kind of answer at last!  Not sure about the agent seeing it, she's got the protection of the Weres though, and has proven herself a real asset often enough, he might not even recognize her Coyote as being all that differen't from the wolves... sort of a close kin of some sort maybe?  ...not sure, but I bet we find out!  ...later
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: BillG on March 07, 2013, 03:05:11 am
Is this the last Mercy book?  I feel like there are so many unanswered questions. 

As to this question, Patty has said her next Mercyverse novel will be "Night Broken", a Mercy novel.
That being the case, when will the "Night Broken" speculation thread start? :-whistle
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: BillG on March 07, 2013, 03:29:05 am
Also a "By The Way", if Marsilia's bad-ass old lover is the Prince of Night, who's King?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on March 07, 2013, 04:11:16 am
This book was excellent.  I think it is up there with Alpha and Omega and Fair Game as one of my three tied for favorite Briggs books LOL.  Heading into reread now.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 07, 2013, 06:32:52 am
I am so glad that this isn't the last book.  Patty sure does like to keep us on our toes. 

DandelionWine, I know that Mercy and Adam are going to fight evil no matter what.  It really is in their nature to do so.  I just really wish that Mercy would stop getting herself hurt!  It kind of appears that Mercy brought in the change for Adam to be quicker...so why can't Adam help Mercy heal faster?  I know it's a long shot, but man, she is getting hurt way to much. 

I'm also kind of hoping that when Mercy talks to Tony that he takes it ok.  I also hope that she can build some sort of a relationship with Sylvia also.  Hopefully Sylvia has seen now that Mercy and even Adam are willing to fight for the people they care about.  I also really want a happily ever after to Tony.  He deserves it!   
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 07, 2013, 10:26:31 am
Is this the last Mercy book?  I feel like there are so many unanswered questions. 

As to this question, Patty has said her next Mercyverse novel will be "Night Broken", a Mercy novel.
That being the case, when will the "Night Broken" speculation thread start? :-whistle

You're behind the time, bud.  http://www.hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=7304.0;prev_next=next#new
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Bean on March 07, 2013, 01:36:00 pm
I love all the new info from the signings. Since I can never go to them (authors always go to San Diego, never LA -- darn you, Mysterious Galaxy!), I love to see the notes and q&a answers after-the-fact.  :)

Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on March 07, 2013, 08:01:44 pm
I wonder if Bran will reveal himself as the Marrok so that all these alphabet agencies don't think they have to go around and police the werewolves. There was that brief conversation about werewolf justice that vaguely touched on Charles' part in Minnesota and Kyle talking about how much more brutal the weres justice was compared to the mundane. I was just thinking that it might soothe some ruffled feathers if they could actually see the leader of all the NA werewolves. Maybe I just want more Bran.  >D
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 07, 2013, 09:49:18 pm
On the other hand, Bran being out and known as the leader of all the NA wolves would mean revealing Aspen Creek as a werewolf epicenter, which would attract an awful lot of attention directed at his Pack and pressure on the humans of Aspen Creek as well.  Since Bran's personal pack isn't necessarily filled with the most stable of individuals, that's probably something we should avoid, even if we could eliminate the risk of Bad Guys trying to reduce the perceived werewolf "threat" by attacking them there.  Gawkers are annoying. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on March 07, 2013, 10:57:58 pm
 >D But fun to chase!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 08, 2013, 12:20:55 am
Yeah, maybe, but killing them causes a ruckus, even if you eat the evidence. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 08, 2013, 06:47:26 am
I don't think that it would be a good idea for Bran to be "outed".  First as someone pointed out, his pack is extremely unstable.  Look at Asil in this book when he had to kill the fae that was after Mercy.  It would put Bran as a target and I hate to say this, but Bran is just to important for them to lose.  But Patty does do things that I don't expect her too all the time. 

You know, I just had a thought.  All the wolves in Adams pack think that Mercy is crazy that she isn't scared of them.  But since Mercy grew up in Aspen Creek around crazy werewolves and is still alive even after all the pranks that she pulled, I don't really think that Adams pack should wonder why she isn't scared of them.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: big city wolf on March 08, 2013, 07:39:27 am
A comment or thought was made in Frost Burned that the three most powerful werewolves in the world were witch born.  Does this mean that Samuel is considered witch born and does he have abilities that we haven't seen yet?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 08, 2013, 10:15:54 am
Direct lineal descent.  The horrible witch/mother who turned Bran, & maybe turned Samuel at/near the same time.  So he's got the potential, or the breeding potential, think of that!  And Charles - Charles is most likely and best suited, IMO as successor for Bran because he's got magical heritage on both sides, with his feet in the Christian mythos (having seen an angel), the supernatural European tradition (witchborn on father's side & werewolf) and the North American supernatural tradition - which I hardly need to talk about.  I'm not sure how he'd feel about leading per se, but he is dominant, and driven to protect.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: jacalynsue on March 08, 2013, 04:30:46 pm
No one has commented on Samuel being called Ariana's mate. I hope this means that Samuel is all better, not just possibly on the mend (as he was at the end of River Marked). And I hope him being out of town means he gets his own story in the anthology!

I had to laugh and admire how seamlessly references to stories in anthologies were woven into the text here. A mention of Kyle's neighbor dying, for example... if you have read the story, you know exactly what happened. But if not, you don't find yourself lost in the current book. That takes real skill to weave the threads together seamlessly.

My only gripe was the ending of the book where it jumped around in time too frequently. It interrupted the flow the story, I thought.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 08, 2013, 04:37:32 pm
I have been thinking about Honey and Mary Jo becoming roommates...  Mary Jo already stood up and demanded her pack standing be reevaluated by demanding her right to fight Paul in Silver Borne (I think), something that totally freaked Honey out at the time.  I wonder what being around Mary Jo more will bring to her opinion about women in a pack.

Will Honey take over Peter's plumbing business?  Obviously not as an actual plumber, but she seems tough enough to manage the workload and set up the jobs for his employees etc.  There was some mention of how Peter was the boss and a number of employees.  She's worked for him in the office (I got the impression she was essentially the office manager) so she must have a handle on the business end and such.  I wonder if doing that will bring out a new self esteem so she will understand a little more about how Mercy gets satisfaction from running her own business and making things work.  (discussion in Silver Borne I think it was, in Jesse's room)  It sounds like Honey has been 'the pretty one' for so very long that she hasn't had the opportunity to step out of that role.  I think it would both frighten her and teach her a lot.  Or else she'll just hook up with the first wolf who claims her... which would be kinda sad, but understandable.

I did notice that about Kyle's neighbor Jacalynsue, thought it was very well done too!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: charmed on March 08, 2013, 05:24:22 pm
No one has commented on Samuel being called Ariana's mate. I hope this means that Samuel is all better, not just possibly on the mend (as he was at the end of River Marked). And I hope him being out of town means he gets his own story in the anthology!

I noticed that and also that Kyle and Warren (I almost typed Karren :D ) were also referred to as mates.  :-LOVE :-LOVE
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 08, 2013, 06:31:46 pm
*is immensely pleased but not in the least surprised by either new mating*
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: jacalynsue on March 08, 2013, 06:55:39 pm
Warren stated the Kyle was his mate in In Red With Pearls. If you have not read that story (contained in Down These Strange Streets) it's worth tracking down ASAP.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Joretur on March 08, 2013, 11:40:19 pm
Ok, I hadn't seen this commented on yet, maybe I missed it.  There was a part in the book where Mercy's eyes actually started glowing gold.  If I could find my kindle I would post the line.  I'm trying to remember the actual context of it happening, but I am curious as to what this may imply for how being Adam's mate, the pack magic and her ability to "change the rules" may impact later on down the road.

I mean some thoughts come to mind:

* Through the pack magic, and and wither her lineage, she is able to take on some of the aspects of the wolf, or the coyote part of her takes some it on.

* By some weird Coyote pseudo offspring thing she actually is slowly becoming a hybrid of wolf and coyote....the coyote absorbing and adapting the pack magic to gain its strengths or something.

I have a few more odd ideas and most are very far fetched, but I have a pretty strong imagination that tries to run away.  I really don't know, but I am very interested to see if Patty expands on what the implications of the "gold eyes" are in Mercy later down the line.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 09, 2013, 12:26:22 am
I may be mistaken, but (having re-read today) I believe that happened just after Mercy had used her mate bond to BE Adam for a minute or so until she managed to separate herself, and then she was psychically with him for his interview with "Jones", so that could be leakage due to how close they were then.

Besides, don't coyotes sometimes have/seem to have yellow eyes too?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Itsy-Cat on March 09, 2013, 01:15:44 am
Ok, I hadn't seen this commented on yet, maybe I missed it.  There was a part in the book where Mercy's eyes actually started glowing gold.  If I could find my kindle I would post the line.  I'm trying to remember the actual context of it happening, but I am curious as to what this may imply for how being Adam's mate, the pack magic and her ability to "change the rules" may impact later on down the road.

I mean some thoughts come to mind:

* Through the pack magic, and and wither her lineage, she is able to take on some of the aspects of the wolf, or the coyote part of her takes some it on.

* By some weird Coyote pseudo offspring thing she actually is slowly becoming a hybrid of wolf and coyote....the coyote absorbing and adapting the pack magic to gain its strengths or something.

I have a few more odd ideas and most are very far fetched, but I have a pretty strong imagination that tries to run away.  I really don't know, but I am very interested to see if Patty expands on what the implications of the "gold eyes" are in Mercy later down the line.

I don't think she's becoming a wolf/cyoyote hybrid, but I think the first idea, of her taking on some of the aspects through pack magic etc, kind of makes sense. The glowing gold eyes certainly suggests that something like that might be happening. (And I think that part was right at the end of the sample chapters for the book on the main site?)
No idea if coyotes eyes glow, but I think they were all surprised, and Mercy herself didn't know her eyes could do that, so, if it was just a coyote thing, wouldn't it have happened before then, at some point? Especially with how stressful her life has been recently? I think it was pack magic and her connection to Adam.

Here's a wild theory, sort of connected to that, or following on from that;
One thing I wondered was whether being actually in the pack (in a way that no other non werewolf mate is) would affect her aging. I think there was something in one of the earlier books about feeling a trickle of health /vitality or something from the pack magic when Adam was trying to get her to open up to it, in Bone Crossed? I think? (I don't know exactly where, it's a while since I read that one.) Do the walkers age human-like usually? Or was there a thing where, well, one of the primals in RM was old. Do they age normally until they're killed or decide to turn into their youthful appearance again? Or was that a chosen disguise? Actually, I don't think any of that was stated/clalified anywhere, if I remember correctly.
Anyway, I was wondering whether, if walkers age normally, under normal circumstances, perhaps being in the pack, surrounded by pack magic, might affect that?
And perhaps the health thing might, one day, mean she can heal faster? Perhaps only when/if the pack accepts her?


Anyway, on a different subject, I was another person who was surprised at Honey's hostility. I'd thought they were getting along now.
I kind of find the idea of Honey, as a really dominant wolf, preferring being treated as a submissive, really difficult to understand. I just don't really get why she'd be ok with that?
I mean, it makes sense that she'd willingly give up her position to be with her mate, because she loves him, but I'd have thought getting treated as lower than she really was in the hierachy would have otherwise irritated her, like, she'd instinctively want to be in the right place, not pushed to the bottom of the heap. That it would be a downside, a cost she was willing to pay to be with Peter, not an upside.
So... if she actually does prefer the lower position, despite being technically near the top in terms of dominance, why is that? (Like I said, I personally don't really get it.) :(


With Asil showing up instead of Charles or Samuel, I wonder if that was to do with the similarity between what happened with his mate and the way that the Necromancer guy was binding the ghosts and using them, controlling dead things in general. Didn't they mention the witch family who had that magic at one point? I'm not sure if the similarity/reminder would be good for him, but perhaps it would help with closure? Somehow? Then add that to the fact that Asil though he could handle killing a vampire earlier on, perhaps it helped him to see another magic/ghost/dead things controller get killed, without having his own personal connection to these particular new people?
Perhaps, when they found out that Mercy etc needed help and Bran decided to send someone, Charles got a feeling that Asil should go? (I think in HG, there was something with Charles getting feelings with that sort of thing sometimes?)


I think I need to reread the whole series. First I need to reread Frost Burned. I read it through once, but, the first time I read through a new book, I end up sort of skimming ahead to find out what happens next, and I end up missing a lot of details.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Zealith on March 09, 2013, 01:23:43 am
On Honey disliking Mercy again:
Remember werewolves have two sets of instinct. One from the human side and one from the wolf. Her wolf might be annoyed at being treated as a submissive but the human side might not. Depending on when, where, and how she grew up she might very well believe that a proper woman doesn't boss men around just like Adam believes a proper man doesn't swear around women.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 09, 2013, 01:34:47 am
No, Honey didn't like Mercy, from the first.  They were pretty stiff around each other when Honey was sent to guard Mercy in Blood Bound, I think Mercy started to make some headway when she asked Honey to change & show Mr. Beckworth that she was also beautiful in her wolf form, but the "females can assert their dominance" thing upset her again, especially, as Mercy says, in conjunction with simple "coyote amid wolves" issues.

Pretty much all female werewolves get there through some form of physical & emotional abuse, from what we've seen.  Some cope one way, some another, better or worse.  I suspect that Honey's abuse included some pretty firm "don't set yourself up as a dominant" lessons, and so she's determined to keep out of that whole lot of power struggles, or maybe she's worried she'll get permanent scarring out of it.  Or some combination.

I'm wondering, with the way Mercy is resolved to protect what is HERS, right up to the whole world - she says of Frost, "he would have destroyed the world" - if she's not actually ultra-dominant in that respect, the burning need to protect, but with physical limitations that she grew up with, and not getting education in the ... spiritual or magical strengths she has, she's had to learn more human/sneaky ways of getting her way & protecting what is HERS, right down to the peanut butter incident.
Being a child (generally as well as specifically) of coyote wouldn't hurt that aspect either.  Coyote is seldom straightforward, and hunting coyotes don't usually bull into their prey, unless they're hunting mice.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Itsy-Cat on March 09, 2013, 02:34:42 am
Oh, ok, thanks for the explanation  :)
I think I vaguely remember reading something where Honey hinted that she'd been in an unpleasant, really nasty pack before, so I guess we don't really know how badly scarred she still is from that.
Also, if her wolf was annoyed about not being allowed to take her proper place, but her human side disagreed and preferred staying out of the fights, I guess that would make the whole thing far more difficult/confusing for her as well. Do we know how old Honey is? Or how long she's  been in Adam's pack and how long she was in a terrible pack?

And I agree that Mercy might be really dominant, but can't enforce that like a werewolf etc.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on March 09, 2013, 04:32:08 am
I might have missed it, but did we find out the result of Asil and Adam going off by themselves to figure out who is more dominant?  I am curious since they both are so powerful.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 09, 2013, 05:47:48 am
Lots of points here!!!   Sorry in advance for what will no doubt become a very long post!

First, JORETUR had some EXCELLENT thoughts (IMO of course) that I agree with, I hope she does gather some of the pack-magic to her which will change the game for her both in healing and in age, which from medical science today are extremely related.  A lot (not all) of the troubles with aging are related to debilitating issues with chronic ailments, poor circulation, and the body not being able to work efficiently over time, build up of proteins and other toxins etc.  If she got pack-magic to help her heal because of her magical nature anyway, then it could clear up a lot of issues with aging and at least extend her life appreciably though possibly (probably) never make her life = to a Were’s lifespan.

One problem could be that other pack members may resent her even MORE because all their fully human wives and children will still age and die as normal for humans and she won’t… but that’s an issue for later.

I don’t see her ever getting super-were strength though.  She’ll still have to manage with uber-quick reflexes and an extremely agile brain, as well as the Coyote’s luck.

I agree that Honey is quite dominant, in one book Adam said that if she weren’t a woman she’d be someone’s second or third… she’s been low ranking and comfortably protected there, loved, cherished, treated as ‘special’ because of her looks etc.  She has a lot of adjusting to do if females are going to start getting treated differently now and she may never like it, even if in human form and human business practices etc she’s totally able to take an assertive role.  Doesn’t mean she’ll want it in the pack and she’s probably very conflicted with it because of her age and upbringing, and long pack position etc.  This is why I think her human side should continue to run Peter’s business as the BOSS-LADY, her wolf side will always be prickly in the pack but fairly happy staying lower ranking.  Adam’s too smart to try to push her unnecessarily, though they may need her higher someday too!
 
Also, in one of the ‘Ask Patty’ threads, and I THINK in one of the books too, Patty said that wolf dynamics shift and change a LOT down in the lower ranks, if it’s not Alpha, Second, or Third, and possibly the next couple positions.  If a wolf is having a bad day or week, or at home or work things are crappy, or great, they may snarl themselves up a few ranks, or drop down a few too.  Pack dynamics aren’t static, mood, health, and attitudes shift and when things are good, Honey may have felt generous about Mercy, if things start going FUBAR she resents her more it’s probably pretty normal.  (‘Were’ normal at least!)  and things have definitely gone FUBAR with Peter’s death, especially for Honey.

I got the idea that in a pack the Alpha has to tolerate all the squabbling and spats in the pack.  No way to shut them down!  That’s their nature and as our mom always told us, they have to simply “FIGHT NICE!”  We weren’t allowed to draw blood, (though it did happen and then we covered for each other because that would have gotten BOTH in trouble) and broken bones were frowned upon too.  Bruises got us little sympathy, but an ice pack (bag of frozen peas).  We were told we should have figured out how to work it out before it came to a black eye.  (yes, we all survived and are probably better people for it all!)  I guess we were sort of a wolf pack, without the fangs or claws!

I liked the thought on Itsy-Cat’s part about Charles having the idea somehow that Asil should handle it, or maybe the tops were just needed because of the delicate negotiations with the Fae.  Either is a good reason to send someone else.  Samuel may have been needed because of a medical issue, or … or.  Who knows!  Asil was good for this book, other reasoning not important! 

It was never stated who won the dominance ‘discussion’, if it was much more forceful than the one between Asil and Ben I think in this case I’d be surprised.  They may take it up a notch another day, but this was not really the time or the place.  If Asil gets too physical on the subject, he might lose his grip on control, and he has said on several occasions that he does NOT ever want to be an Alpha again.  He might have just made an oath to Adam that he has no intent to subvert him and is only there as a representative of the Marrok, a help with CANTRIP and to assist Adam as best he can.  He’s one of those who holds their oaths sacred, so even Adam’s wolf might be ‘mostly’ satisfied with that… mostly.
 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Joretur on March 09, 2013, 06:01:12 am
Another thought that comes to mind as for why her eyes glowed.  Maybe Mercy IS pregnant.  I mean it would be a stretch to think that the child would already have wolf-like attributes, but she is a Coyote...and the rules seem to change a lot with her.  If that's true maybe its also a channeling of the kid or something like that.

Remember at the beginning of the book there was something mentioned about a "big reveal" but as far as I remember it was never said what it was.  Unless I completely missed that part.

One thing is for sure though, the laws of the supernatural don't really apply the same to Mercy as they do with others.

She did freak out a bit when Jesse brought it up.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 09, 2013, 06:29:46 am
I think the freak out that caused the accident was because of the Pack either getting snatched or Adam waking up from the drug. 

Something else that came to mind about Walkers, remember how the Hawk Brothers (in River Marked) don't see ghosts anymore because they chose not to a long time ago?  Native taboos about death and ghosts etc being very different than the anglo attitudes Mercy has been raised with, plus them having been in battle making that very difficult too, they just shut that part of their magic down.  Does that mean that Mercy can reach for other aspects of her Coyote magic that she either chooses to or has in the past chosen NOT to have?  Sure leaves Patty B lots of leeway, which is a VERY good thing for her fans!!!

I think the eyes were either a trickle from the Pack-magic, or a new aspect of her own.  If she changed the 'rules' enough to physically draw silver through the bond, surely some eye-glow is a mere nothing!!   8)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 09, 2013, 10:00:00 am
I agree that what caused the accident was something to do with Adam - and so were the golden eyes.  Mercy and Adam's bond sometimes does odd things, and with Adam a little drugged up, it just made so much sense to me.  Between Mercy being upset/angry and Adam being drugged, both of them probably trying to reach each other but not getting much out of it... something got passed along the bonds, but they just weren't able to talk to each other. 

Alternative speculation: you know how when Mercy tries to contact Adam at Samuel and Ari's house, she thinks at first that she failed, and then she realizes that she's looking out through Adam's eyes?  What if Adam did the same thing, but he was still too drugged up to realize that he'd actually made the contact he wanted?  And maybe he thought that seeing people back home was just a dream/hallucination. 

Second alternative speculation (I don't like this one as much): the gold eyes are caused by some conscious effort by Adam (and/or his wolf) to protect his mate and daughter.  IE, Adam is drugged, captured, and in a terrible position, and he senses that Mercy is upset and angry and confused... so Adam decides that for the moment, he's going to do his best to help the members of his pack who are still free, if they need it.  Perhaps he merely opened the bond a bit extra from his end to make it easier for Mercy to draw on his Alpha-ness.  Perhaps he tried to send some extra power down the bond.  In either case, golden eyes were a side effect of Mercy receiving something from Adam while human Adam wasn't entirely in control.


Which reminds me.  When did Adam's wolf learn to speak English?  THAT I didn't expect, based on Adam's assessment of his wolf as well as the prior encounters we've had with him.  And consider that Brother Wolf prefers to communicate in a more elemental way than words (and considers English to be "baby talk")... that's more how I expected Adam's wolf to communicate. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 09, 2013, 10:08:56 am
Different werewolves, different brother wolves.  Charles & his have had over 200 years of communicating with each other, they can do the empathy/flash of scent/sight/sound thing, but Adam's wolf is about a quarter that age, and generally ruthlessly suppressed by Adam's human mind & heart.  There was a lot that Adam tried to push through the link, mostly a spate of questions, but the difficulty of the moment prevented it from going slowly enough that Mercy could make sense of it.
Given that he was drawing the energy she was offering him as well as from the pack ("what they didn't have to spare"), I doubt he was pushing any other 'help' down either type of bonds to her. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Has on March 09, 2013, 10:12:18 am
I just came across this about the tension between Mercy and Honey at the Amazon forums -

Quote
Hi :) You are right, they were starting to deal well with each other. However, in Silverborn, Mercy shakes up the standards of rank in the pack in order to allow Mary Jo to fight. If the pack decides to hold to that ruling (and, off screen, they have mostly been trying to ignore the ramifications) that would put Honey way up the pack rankings. Honey was Very unhappy about that and they have gone back to being not-friends again. My apologies for not making it clear in Frost Burned (and I agree that it is not) for the reasons for Honey's renewed dislike of Mercy.
Best wishes,
Patty Briggs

http://www.amazon.com/Frost-Burned-Mercy-thread-havent/forum/FxOAX00UQTLU3L/Tx235P8ZIXM42HH/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tp_t?_encoding=UTF8&asin=0441020011


This is going to be so much harder now that there is no buffer with Peter being as submissive which Honey can pretend to take her rank from. But remember when Patty said in the chat the other day about Mercy changing Adam's perceptions with pack magic. Maybe that's a factor as well. And I think being a female and a dominant one, is going to play alpha dynamics in a different way to men as well. I can see why Honey would feel reluctant with the whole domination and rank games/posturing.


I really loved how this tied up loose ends from Moon Called and carried on those threads. That interested person who gave the info about the wolves - who is he and what is their real agenda. And it feels like we will definitely see the Master of Milan appearing in the future - and did anyone note about the blood bound still active! Stefan lied to Mercy and Marsillia knows about it!  Mercy is definitely going to be wary of him about that and I wonder how Adam will react to that piece of news.

I do think there seems to be a bleeding into each other's powers theory and i think the pack bonds/mate bond is definitely the reason why this is happening. Adam did note his change was faster. If Mercy is sharing his powers via the bonds then he should do as well- and he seemed to sense what was Peter was warnings. Maybe because their bond was so hastily formed and it was short circuited several times, it is now finally settling down. I got a feeling that the bond is going to be like how Mariposa stole and used the mating bond with Asil and his mate. But unlike them which was a one-way thing. This is true sharing with give and take and its driven by need and love.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 09, 2013, 10:40:31 am
I said this in a PM exchange with someone before release date:

 Rousing good story!  Fun!  Interesting help from Coyote.
 Doesn't do anything to answer any of the big questions, and having everything laid
at the door of this psycho vampire seems too much, but what the heck?

Although it is a rather disturbing statistic... out of how many Mercy novels,
 the vampires have been the bad guys?  Andre & Littleton, James Blackwood,
Marsilia always, in a low key way.  The other members of her seethe in conjunction
with Andre.  Not to mention the mercenary vampires in Hunting Ground.

On vampires being "the biggest, baddest bad guys":
They are; fairly clear cut bad guys, saving certain individuals, Stefan & the
gal in... where was she, Chicago? In the Home Improvement collection.

I just think that three of 8 -or is it 7?- adventures to devolve on the vampires
is pushing their ability to avoid coming out & the chances of detection fairly hard.
 Especially with the other creepy ones lurking in the background, the Master of Milan
& the one who went by the name of Max Schrek in "Nosferatu".   

There are so many possible bad guys.  Organized haters like the "Bright Future" & their big brothers, what were they called?  Zee's lawyer was a member of the group.  As well as the lone
nuts like Heuter from Fair Game; non-US government agencies hunting for conscript
werewolf/other supernatural agents in the US, big game hunters, individuals who
have put 2+ 2 together & decided group/type/person X is responsible for some
 misery in their own lives, like the kids of the truckers from Blood Bound, folks
 with more real grievance than Heuter & nephews had.  General criminal organizations
or "geniuses" who figure they can blame/build an organization out of the
disenfranchised of the supernatural community, lone wolves, half/part fae, or others
they may have stumbled across or deduced. --That one has some interesting
possibilities, in fact. 

Whether as a human who tries to be big boss or some
less powerful but smart werewolf/fae/vampire/?? maybe from one of the mythos
that Patty hasn't touched yet, Africa, South America, Asia, Australia... or someone like Tad looked like turning into before Mercy, Gabriel, Jesse, & Ben burst into his funk.  Tad did mention that the part bloods were excluded (even he, who has some "big guns" however erratic) from the reservations/underhills, but still expected to obey the Grey Lords and report the renegade full bloods who hadn't gone to ground.  And the Grey lords don't know who/where all those are; they had no idea the White Stag of Fair Game existed, did they?  Beauclaire said that if Charles (or even he, himself) had tried to follow when it escaped Lizzie's prison, the power of the White Stag was such that the follower would kill himself in the chase, warned or no.  That's... not exactly small potatoes.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 09, 2013, 11:22:32 am
Different werewolves, different brother wolves.  Charles & his have had over 200 years of communicating with each other, they can do the empathy/flash of scent/sight/sound thing, but Adam's wolf is about a quarter that age, and generally ruthlessly suppressed by Adam's human mind & heart.  There was a lot that Adam tried to push through the link, mostly a spate of questions, but the difficulty of the moment prevented it from going slowly enough that Mercy could make sense of it.
I see it the other way.  The wolf side seems to be a fairly instinctive creature - even the most civilized of them that we've met.  It makes sense to me that a young wolf, and especially one who has not been allowed to interact with anyone except their own human half and other werewolves, would try to communicate with other humans the same way it would with its own human.  And I don't see them being created with an instinctive knowledge of the English language (or any other human language, obviously). 

My brain just jumped into some neurobiology here, so I'm going to try to explain this but I'm not sure I'll lay it out very well.  I think that the wolf part of a werewolf has its roots in the instinctive, fight-or-flight-but-mostly-fight part of the brain.  That part of your brain isn't all that closely connected to the parts of your brain involving vocal language.  That simply isn't something that part of your brain needs.  It's much more effective to communicate with body language, tonalities (ie, a scream of terror vs. a roar of anger etc.), facial expressions... even humans do this.  Mercy says constantly that werewolves are instinctively more in tune with that sort of communication than humans are.  Why would a werewolf need to use English to communicate with its human half?  Spoken/symbolic language is inefficient if you're a creature that exists in the immediate world.   

One of the things that happens when you're in a heightened emotional state (such as fear or anger) is that it gets harder to be articulate.  The extent of this of course depends on the type and degree of reaction you're experiencing.  For instance, you might stumble over words when you're excited.  Why?  the simple explanation is that at a sub-conscious level, your body is paying more attention to that pre-linguistic part of your brain.  Obviously you can still access the spoken language regions of your brain.  It just takes more effort and/or practice to speak well. 

Therefore, I have a hard time believing that a younger werewolf is more likely to be articulate in English than an older one. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 09, 2013, 10:38:36 pm
I'm thinking more in terms of "Adam grew up speaking English, probably only English.  He was not attuned to nature the way that Charles, born 150+ years earlier was.  He & his wolf are less integrated/a team than Charles & Brother Wolf are.  He has fewer of the subtle nuances of expression between his English speaking self and his wolf self available and accessed, then surpassed than C & BW."  In other words, even though this was a high stress situation, as you say, Adam's wolf is ... a baby in BW's view, and therefore entirely likely to speak what BW would consider baby talk when speaking with Mercy.

Additionally, while you're focusing on the fact that Adam's wolf self spoke with Mercy, I'm more concentrating on Adam's initial, mostly human, fuzzy rush of question & information to her.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 09, 2013, 11:14:10 pm
Well, we knew that Adam's human half can communicate with Mercy via their bond (and even that the wolf can... remember at the end of SB?).  So I wasn't surprised by that. 

I think "baby talk" is Anna's inefficient human way of saying that Brother Wolf thinks English is a dumbed-down/inefficient way to communicate, not that it's the way an actual youngster would communicate. 

Think about the way that Anna's wolf talks when she takes over Anna's human body: I think Charles says she's typically monosyllabic, but she definitely speaks with small words and short, simple sentences... or else she simply bypasses speaking and shows Charles what she wants.  Though Anna's wolf isn't quite the same as any of the dominant wolves we've met so far.
...now I'm gonna have to go re-read In Red With Pearls to see what insights I can gain from Warren's wolf. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 10, 2013, 06:38:19 am
OK, change of subject a bit... Am currently re-listening to Frost Burned, and while thinking about Tad, (just now on the part where he and Asil and Mercy are at Sylvia's to get the kids to take back to Kyle's...) Thinking about his situation and such.... how would it be if he went to Aspen Creek, set up a blacksmith's shop, could do some down home, old fashioned metal smithing, forging metal etc.  Developed his craft, perhaps to do some personal growth and research about exactly what his craft IS.

How cool would it be if some certain few interesting fae sort of started to find their way to Bran?  Noone the Gray Lords would be all that concerned about, they dismiss the half fae/part fae as unimportant, but what if they started to find their own version of power with the protection of Bran and his pack, either right in town, or nearby in some little deserted town in a hidden valley nearby?   Probably mostly the minor part-fae, and maybe a couple full fae who are "too weak" to be of interest... perhaps some full fae who are powerful enough to stay hidden from the Gray Lords... maybe they LIKE being around humans!  or at least SOME humans, and Weres?   

This is VERY intriguing to me!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on March 10, 2013, 08:03:34 am
Interesting, DW! You have to wonder just what is going on at that meeting. I think the Gray Lords are mailing a huge mistake discounting the half-fae and that may result in some kind of civil war down the road.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Tad was studying at school. I would love to see him hang around mercy and the crew more. I'm intruiged by the idea of him working near Bran but I want him in he tricities!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 10, 2013, 08:25:08 am
Yes, I really loved that he's working with her in the garage, giving her both companionship and the help she needs... I just think a part fae enclave that could give them a shared experience, some chance to work out their own issues, and a chance to spit in the eye of the Gray Lords would be pretty interesting.

i started a new thread about this idea because it's not quite "part" of Frost Burned, sort of a new branch of speculation I guess.

http://www.hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=7335.0#new
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 10, 2013, 08:29:37 am
Ok, I hadn't seen this commented on yet, maybe I missed it.  There was a part in the book where Mercy's eyes actually started glowing gold.  If I could find my kindle I would post the line.  I'm trying to remember the actual context of it happening, but I am curious as to what this may imply for how being Adam's mate, the pack magic and her ability to "change the rules" may impact later on down the road.

I mean some thoughts come to mind:

* Through the pack magic, and and wither her lineage, she is able to take on some of the aspects of the wolf, or the coyote part of her takes some it on.

* By some weird Coyote pseudo offspring thing she actually is slowly becoming a hybrid of wolf and coyote....the coyote absorbing and adapting the pack magic to gain its strengths or something.

I have a few more odd ideas and most are very far fetched, but I have a pretty strong imagination that tries to run away.  I really don't know, but I am very interested to see if Patty expands on what the implications of the "gold eyes" are in Mercy later down the line.

Okay, so I'm desperately behind and trying to catch up, since I shunned the interwebs while reading, and then didn't take it with me to Chicago when I went to the Oak Brook signing.  :D So bear with me...

This question actually came up in the Q&A, and while Patty was the first to admit that leaving a part sans-explanation was an excellent opportunity for her to change her mind in the future, she did point out that when writing that scene she had primarily in mind a self-discovery for Mercy, who doesn't often self-reflect, and certainly not in the mirror. She was just bringing her coyote to the surface in all her fear and rage, and it apparently manifests in her eyes, just like the wolves. That being said, Patty was willing to make it into something more if it suits her whims in the future, so we can hold out hope for something more!

As for Samuel, I think he was off helping Bran, wasn't he? Woot, time for re-readsies!

I suppose it goes without saying, but an excellent book - loved the tie-ups and references (Hao, Kyle's neighbor, Homecoming...) :D Except for Peter. I didn't love that part, that was sad  :-'

I kind of wonder if Tad's so bitter and grouchy because the succession of the Fae lost him his place in Harvard? Can't wait to see more of him in the anthology!

And as always, Patty shifted into high gear at the end, there. Interesting to see the evolution of dynamics between Mercy and Marsilia, Marsilia and Stefan, and just Wulfe in general (darn, I had that "crazy, evil onion" definition down for him more than I am comfortable with  :-\ ). It'll be fun to reread and speculate!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Varg on March 10, 2013, 09:20:44 am
BD that evil onion thing sprang up in my head while reading the book..... LOL It sort of made him less and more scary.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 10, 2013, 11:23:19 am
I know. When he dropped his BA vamps line, all I could think was "Oh, Wulfe, you evil onion, you..." And then I spent the rest of the time wondering what he would do next.  :-\

Okay, side note - when Frost went munching on ghosties, is it wrong that all I could think of was renaming him The Pac-Man?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Varg on March 10, 2013, 11:25:25 am
No LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 10, 2013, 11:35:45 am
LOL I was thinking Pac-Man as well. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: charmed on March 10, 2013, 11:36:30 am
:D :D Works for me LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 10, 2013, 12:13:19 pm
I think one of these rereads of that scene, I'm going to have to listen to old video game music during.

I feel like it was Pac-Man meets Mortal Combat  LOL

"Doot-doot-doot.....finish him!!!"
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Elle on March 10, 2013, 12:42:09 pm
I know. When he dropped his BA vamps line, all I could think was "Oh, Wulfe, you evil onion, you..." And then I spent the rest of the time wondering what he would do next.  :-\

Evil onion.  LOL So true!
Title: Re: Frost Burned Chat 2 | March 9, 2013 **Spoilers**
Post by: michelehayes on March 10, 2013, 04:48:51 pm
Evening all from the UK.  Just finished Frost Burned.  I loved it but the only frustration I that I have ( on behalf of Mercy) is that it seemed really unfair to Mercy that after killing Frost she didn't get so much as a thank you from the vampires.  Did anyone else think the same on that part? X
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 10, 2013, 05:56:48 pm
Hi, MicheleHayes!
Yes, and for some reason, the discussion of what she should get for a thanks ended up in the "Night Burned" speculation thread!  LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 10, 2013, 07:46:04 pm
...I'm re-reading the rest of the series again, and when Mercy introduced Peter to her mother in BC, it made me cry. 
*stomps foot* I don't like bad guys who kill nice werewolves. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 11, 2013, 09:33:23 am
Someone mentioned earlier about the bond that is between Mercy and Stephan still being present.  I wonder if that has anything to do with Stephan randomly feeding from members of the pack, including Adam?  I am so hoping that I am wrong here b/c I want Stephan to be good!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 11, 2013, 11:39:36 am
Hmmm, I'd like to think Stefan's a good guy, too, but I'm not holding my breath for him to be a hero - Patty's vamps don't tend to be the good guys, even when they're good (erm...that made more sense in my head than it did out loud). As for his continued bond with Mercy, I think that has more to do with broad vampire misinformation and their blood bond than it does with the pack - he fed from wolves, but didn't exchange blood.

Guess we'll have to see in NB!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Has on March 11, 2013, 11:51:56 am
I think he was about to elaborate on something in Bone Crossed about the bond but was cut short. I think its definitely more permanent than he let on. But I do find it disconcerting he told Marsillia with that fact.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 11, 2013, 02:12:18 pm
Good point, Has. Now the question remains - what didn't he say, and why *insert dramatic music here*?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kkat07 on March 12, 2013, 06:21:13 pm
I loved it! It was awesome. I have multiple thoughts about some of the questions/comments here, but that will have to wait until another time. Gotta go to bed; I've been late to work once already this week.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on March 13, 2013, 03:11:11 am
I am still churning on who was more dominant, Adam or Asil...since Bran is sending him out to trouble spots instead of Charles (as Bran said he was going to in Fair Game), that means he is strong enough to out power most of the alphas if necessary and he probably can pull power from Bran if he needs to in any given situation. 

But if I remember right, Adam was fourth in the list of dominant wolves.  Does anyone know where the list of wolves by dominance is located?  I would love to have another look at it (recognizing that dominance is a fluid thing dependent on the mental and physical health of the wolves, as well as the circumstances they are currently living under).
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on March 13, 2013, 03:26:51 am
I remember it from Moon Called.

By the way did we know before that Ben's last name was Shaw?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 13, 2013, 05:10:25 am
No, the Shaw thing is new. Guess we better add it to the ID card!

As for the dominance thing, I think Asil may rank higher, but he's sort of out of the regular list since he's not up for consideration for Alpha.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 13, 2013, 06:06:42 am
Yeah... when Mercy was talking about the various wolves/wolf packs, I took that as their standing rank wise as Alphas.  Asil is a bit like Warren IMO (in the situation between Warren and Darryl I mean).  He's stronger than a lot of wolves, though not in Bran's immediate pack, where he was surprised/irritated that Charles is more dominant then he is, but he's not interested in having a pack, so he tamps it down.  I think it makes him feel both irritated AND secure though that both Bran and Charles, and possibly even Samuel, though again there, Samuel doesn't want a pack so they are sort of equal in that way!  I'm not sure what point in Cry Wolf he said it, (at the end, in the 'wrap up' I think) but he said he has no desire to ever be an Alpha again. 

Good thing that he's very good at using good wolf etiquette because if he ever looses it and gets into a dominance fight with another Alpha, Bran will possibly/probably HAVE to go take him out.   What a mess that would be!  I'm guessing that the biggest reason he knew he could send him to the Tri-cities is that he also knew that Adam is smart and has good manners too.  Or else he was desperate! hehe, maybe he also thought it would do Asil some good to have some interesting experiences and Mercy usually sees to it that things are interesting!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: katy on March 13, 2013, 07:31:06 am
The dominance list from Moon Called is something Mercy remembers from her childhood -- at that time, Asil had not yet arrived in the Marrok's pack, and was presumably still in Europe somewhere, so he wouldn't have been considered in that list. So... still a mystery! 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 13, 2013, 07:37:30 am
Ooh, good point, Katy - she had thought Asil a myth, so she hadn't known where he ranked, except on the scale of fantasy - like Santa. With sharp teeth.

I'm trying to remember, Samuel was helping Bran with talks with the fae, but was Charles, too? Or did Charles not go to the Tri-Cities for a different reason - not wanting to work with Cantrip for a bit, having another job, Bran thinking this wasn't so big a deal? Hmmm...Charles, what were you up to?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: marci8300 on March 13, 2013, 08:17:31 am
I don't know what Charles was up to.  More than likely it was something interesting though.  Charles and Anna always seem to have interesting things to do.  Samuel would be a good person to negotiate with the Fae though. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 13, 2013, 09:51:38 am
Maybe Samuel for negotiations with the fae, Charles for the Feds?  Since they're aware of him, aware that he's "higher up" than Isaac of Boston?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 13, 2013, 02:43:08 pm
Fair explanation, Patti. That could be it - just talking things down post-faepacolypse to help keep both sides from freaking out (and, you know, trying to bomb each other or anything...). That would be a better job for him than Samuel or Asil any day.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 13, 2013, 10:55:06 pm
Especially if he can bring Anna along! :D
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Gremore on March 18, 2013, 08:45:48 am
So, Frostburned... WOW.

The day I bought this work was extremely quiet and for the first day ever I managed to read a book in one day... I have never taken less than 3/4 days before.
SO much happens in that book, so very amazing.

Poor Peter  :-'  He was one of my favourites since the Sword incident with Fideal... absolutely brutal him dying!

Tad - I had high hopes that he'd prove to be more than 'basically human' and hoped he'd eventually be in one of the books chipping in... As for "not really got a handle of the scary stuff" this makes me think he's secretly 'rock hard' :P

Sylvia - It was nice seeing more of that evolution and involving Tony again, I always thought there was huge scope there.

Asil - Epic as always, as soon as the door was opened I was like "huh, wouldn't it be funny if it was Asil"... brilliance.
Plus I really like the way he was described, I love how original and different he is, plus the nod to the history between him and Zee was very funny (people at work looked at me funny for smiling so much to a book).

Samuel and Bran/Fae talks - I'm glad those two weren't in it to a certain extent as it kind of forced Mercy to rely on herself and her other less (or in some cases more) powerful.
I think the reason Samuel has gone is a few fold, other than Bran he's probably one of the oldest wolves who still has full faculties, he lives with one of the ONLY Fae's the Grey Lords don't have control of, he speaks fluent Welsh and has no Pack affiliations so no drive for specific benefits for a certain area over others (which also means no pack listening in). I think he's the perfect backup for Bran in the negotiations.

As for Asil vs Adam, I think Asil is the more dominant (like Samuel was) but did the same thing as with Ben "I'm not submitting but I defer authority to you and do not wish to challenge/steal/attack your pack."

Adam point of view chapters - MORE PLEASE!! Huge hit for me, I'd love to have more of those (hugh Werewolf fan in general and these are by far some of the best incarnations!) expecially if some would be Ben? I have liked that guy for a long time now, I think he deserves some true recognition!

Info Guy, it was partially resolved as it could be something Gerry gave to someone for if he died... but I don't think that chapter is over. If we look back at all the books there is ALWAYS a cause and affect response!

Mixing up the format was very well done, it would be very easy to use the previous formulae but with this book it was the best of both worlds with Mercy helping but not specifically saving Adam and then Adam arrives to make it easier but she could have won the fight anyway :P

I expect Charles was off with Anna looking after that young girl who's been turned that was hinted at in an earlier book? Anna seems the perfect choice to look after her.

The title of the next book makes me think the Prince of Night is going to be told of Adam's transgressions and pop over for a visit... NO GOOD CAN COME OF THIS!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 20, 2013, 03:25:12 pm
Alrighty, listening to the audiobook at the gym today, and got to Adam calling Elizaveta for clean-up. He mentions that witches can deal with bodies, but can't repair objects. Now, I was remembering In Red With Pearls, and Warren sees her granddaughter fix a windowpane with blood. So....is this more of that supernatural misinformation, a continuity issue, or some other breed of creature?

Hey - wasn't driving this time when stray thoughts hit me, at least  LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 20, 2013, 11:58:18 pm
My guess would be it's a continuity issue, although... are there ever people who have some of both kinds of power? Wizard & witch?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 21, 2013, 03:50:56 am
I dunno. that's where characters like Wulfe confuse me.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kkat07 on March 21, 2013, 06:04:08 pm
My guess would be it's a continuity issue, although... are there ever people who have some of both kinds of power? Wizard & witch?

Good question. In that specific instance I'd guess a continuity issue. I think it's possible that someone could have two different kinds of magic. I think Charles has the ability to learn witch magic if he wanted to, which he doesn't. Too tired to flip through Cry Wolf right now and doublecheck.
So, if you had someone who was half wizard and half witch, he/she might be able to learn both kinds of magic.
In Wulfe's case, the vampire blood probably just mutated his magic enough that he can do multiple scary things. And considering the 'you are what you eat' rule for vampires, maybe he feeds off of witches every now and then.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 22, 2013, 07:55:30 am
I dunno, I think that was more for Blackwood than anyone else, but maybe.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Temari on March 22, 2013, 01:32:19 pm
Finally had a chance to read the book last night - loved it!!  :D

It's really fun having Asil in a Mercy book, and like Gremore I was laughing at the idea of Zee chasing him around a mountain!

I really liked the way Wulfe behaved too - unpredictable and a bit insane, but I don't think Marsilia has anyone else to rely on, so she has to have him. Now I'm guessing there's a whole load less vampires around in certain areas now, which would affect the power balance.

Humm, wonder how soon I'll have a chance to read it again....  :)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: mtomni on March 23, 2013, 09:50:37 am
What story was Peter in with a sword?  I honestly don't remember that part.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 23, 2013, 10:00:15 am
Iron Kissed, when the Fideal was chasing Mercy & she led him to Adam's house, Peter came out with his sword and waded into the river after Adam if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: ElefiNecol on March 24, 2013, 09:34:04 am
Yup - The section starts around p. 193. Peter went into the water after the fight. He stayed human and used a sword, he was supposed to remove Jesse if needed, and went out when Mercy changed his orders. He went into the water after Adam who had followed Fideal at the end.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 25, 2013, 10:07:05 am
Just finished re-reading and passed the book off to Labmate, and it seems to me we haven't yet addressed the most pressing question of the entire story:

What DOES quicquidlibet mean?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on March 25, 2013, 10:11:31 am
Quicquidlibet is a noun pronounced as /quick'ki'd•lee'bet/ and consists of the classical Latin word 'quicquid libet, quodlibet'  or 'quicquid, quidquid' for 'whatever,' which can also be a reduplication of 'quid' for 'anything' and 'libet' for 'it pleases.'  It means one who does whatever one pleases, anything whatsoever.


"You are such a quicquidlibet, you...you overgrown hippo," declared the little dwarf to the ancient Ent.

"A multimonstrous maufrey of heteroclytes and quicquidlibets." --- N. Ward, Simple Cobler Aggawam
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 25, 2013, 10:16:02 am
Thanks, Janilee! :)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on March 25, 2013, 10:16:43 am
Google fu is working today. :D
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 25, 2013, 10:42:17 am
Now, if I can pronounce it, I need to start using it in conversation.  LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Varg on March 25, 2013, 10:45:48 am
LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on March 25, 2013, 12:48:28 pm
*pictures Patti using Quicquidlibet like a '90s teenager used "What-EVer!"* LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on March 25, 2013, 12:57:16 pm
When I Googled the definition, all I could think of was using it in the phrase "whatever, whatever, I do what I want."

"Quicquidlibet, I do what I want"

Yes, I must find the venue to drop this word.

It will take me from my current favorite word, quixotic, but it must be done.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: charmed on March 25, 2013, 04:30:22 pm
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: katy on March 25, 2013, 06:35:32 pm
It took me a while to find a definition of that word (the first couple of online dictionaries I tried didn't have it!), but once I found it, I wondered if it had been used to describe Mercy and her coyote-like qualities!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 26, 2013, 02:44:27 pm
OK, anyone have any ideas about what happened to Uncle Mike's bar?  I bet not even some 'weak' half fae would have been allowed to keep it open and it got abandoned... maybe some rough bikers (no, I know there's lots of good guys who ride bikes) but some bad-news types took it over and man are they going to be sorry when Uncle Mike gets back!!!   >D
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on March 26, 2013, 02:47:38 pm
Interesting thoughts. Uncle Mike's was for the Fae not for the tourists. With all the big Fae on the reservation, there probably isn't much business for a place like Uncle Mikes, unless a werewolf or a vampire takes over. I wonder what happened to the tourist bars where the Fae once worked?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 26, 2013, 05:01:07 pm
Oh, there could be some moderately powerful part-fae (like Tad) who is running it now, either in a deal with Uncle Mike, or having stepped into the void as an opportunist. 
Or, since fae magic hasn't stopped working, perhaps there's a hiding glamor on it, too.

Although Fae aren't usually heavily attached to to things in the mundane world, Uncle Mike (and possibly his staff) might have walked off & left it for the first curious mundane to walk into, keys in the door, tossed on the bar, or whatever.  Fae are unpredictable like that.  Just beware fairy gifts...
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: DandelionWine on March 27, 2013, 04:51:44 am
Well, that sure shuts down any speculation Patti!  *sigh*  You could have let us have a 'little' fun with it!   9)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on March 27, 2013, 08:42:52 am
What?  Those are just a couple of speculations of mine.  It could be your outlaw bikers who walked in, or it could be suddenly a goth dance & drink club.  Or maybe a few homeless families moved into it.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on April 28, 2013, 09:10:39 pm
Mercy referred to the silver as needing to be cleaned up, but it tarnished so fast as to indicate it was quite pure.  Shouldn't it have been sold to pay back Marsillia for her car, or for the repairs to the Sandoval apartment, or something, rather than being discarded?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on April 29, 2013, 03:23:19 am
Clean up does not mean discarded. And with the silver prices as low as they are right now, it probably wouldn't pay for much.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on April 29, 2013, 03:26:43 am
It could be held for later.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on April 29, 2013, 03:29:19 am
True. Perhaps Gabriel could hold on to it. The Wolves wouldn't want to.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on April 29, 2013, 03:46:11 am
Only if it was suitably wrapped. ;)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Varg on April 30, 2013, 05:03:39 am
Or perhaps Ariana could get some. She is good with silver isn't she 9)

Or Todd could use some.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on April 30, 2013, 08:58:47 pm
Both options of what to do with it. *nods*
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: jacalynsue on July 05, 2013, 02:32:25 pm
I love it when I finally figure out what I missed the first few times.... due to reading too fast and/or being dense and clueless.

Last night, when reading Frost Burned again, I saw Kyle's comment to Mercy in a new light. After Mercy threw up the silver and told Kyle she could talk to Adam though the bond, Kyle repeated it and was relieved. He said he had been afraid he was crazy. Initially, I read that as thinking he'd misheard Mercy and no, he'd heard her correctly so he was not going crazy. He was making it a bit of a joke to relieve the tension as he learned about more pack magic. But THIS time, I figured out that he was really saying he thought he'd been hearing Warren talk to him via their mating bond and had thought he was going crazy. Now that he knows that communication between mates via their bonds is normal, he's relieved.

I'm posting here for the benefit of other clueless readers like me who miss this stuff the first several times though and finally get it a lot later.  :-[
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on July 05, 2013, 08:34:47 pm
*grins*
I totally happydanced about that tidbit on the Warren-Kyle mate bond the first time I read it. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: maydayp on July 19, 2013, 01:48:50 pm
Alrighty, listening to the audiobook at the gym today, and got to Adam calling Elizaveta for clean-up. He mentions that witches can deal with bodies, but can't repair objects. Now, I was remembering In Red With Pearls, and Warren sees her granddaughter fix a windowpane with blood. So....is this more of that supernatural misinformation, a continuity issue, or some other breed of creature?

Hey - wasn't driving this time when stray thoughts hit me, at least  LOL
I assumed it would have to do with the quantity of the marks and damage, rather then an inability to fix it. I mean, why go to all that effort to fix something when there are easier ways to do so (burning down). Also they had a time crunch, with a helicopter landing the next day. It's also very easy to miss small details so the fire would be more likely to destroy everything where as magic might leave clues as to what actually happened.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: YuleRule on November 17, 2013, 04:47:26 pm
So I was in a Barnes and Noble two days ago, and happened to pick up and read Faerie Gifts in Naked City. And you know, it was about a vampire called Thomas Hao. That seemed vaguely familiar to me, so today I checked Frost Burned, and Lo and behold, the vampire ally that Marsilia calls is also a Chinese vampire named Thomas Hao. Interesting!
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on November 18, 2013, 08:26:47 am
Mrs. Briggs works in mysterious ways  8)

I loved the little shout-out, too :)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: YuleRule on March 19, 2014, 02:09:55 pm
So I was skimming the end of Frost Burned, and I had a thought about what if Stephan was fighting. Even if can teleport a limited number of times, he could just pick a really convienient moment to do it in. Then I thought, hey, doesn't Marsilia also have the ability to teleport? She could have teleported and shoved the iron bar into Frost's heart. But then maybe she was hiding her ability? But then who from? Mercy knows, as presumably so does Adam. So do Wulfe (probably) and Stephan. So she must not want Asil, Honey, or Hao to know, as the rest (Shamus and Frost) will be dead if they win. Thoughts?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Baum Diggity on April 15, 2014, 09:26:05 am
I don't know....maybe it has something to do with those playground rules that our childhoods all lived by...

"I can teleport."

"No, no teleporting, that's cheating!"

"Fiiiiine..."
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on April 15, 2014, 04:43:33 pm
Seems like vampires would delight in breaking those rules, but then again...  Maybe there's some kind of code that they have to fight by.  Or maybe teleporting has to be long-range, or has a recovery period (even a couple of seconds of recovery could be deadly in a vampire fight.)
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Zealith on April 15, 2014, 10:50:14 pm
Or she might not be as good at it as Stephan, and remember how tired he got after transporting people in both NB and BC? Maybe she could manage one or two teleports, but would be completely or just mostly drained afterwards.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on April 16, 2014, 08:51:51 am
I'm thinking that Zealith's argument of energy drain is valid. A good showy move, but you need to conserve energy for the long haul of the fight.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on April 16, 2014, 09:40:07 am
Given the way Stephan was wiped out after teleporting with Chad, yeah.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on April 16, 2014, 06:09:59 pm
Given the way Stephan was wiped out after teleporting with Chad, yeah.
I think teleporting while also transporting someone else would be much more difficult than transporting yourself twice.
For instance: Go for a hike up a mountain, return to the trailhead, and repeat.  The next day, bring a friend with you.  lift your friend over your shoulder and hike at the same speed, over the same trail, as you did before. You only have to do it once this time, but I'd bet you're more tired when you're finished. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on December 21, 2014, 09:35:54 pm
It occurs to me as I am re-reading a portion of Frost Burned, that I really want to know what was going through Asil's head when Mercy 'defended' him to Marsilia.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kristenann on December 22, 2014, 09:22:21 pm
I'd like to know a few things that might have gone through Asil's head in that book, but you bring up an interesting one. Also Adam made a comment to Asil that sounded something like an order and Asil snapped "I'm not your wolf", but didn't Mercy tell Marsilia that Asil was hers? I'd have to read through the book again, but I think he was amused. Could be the dominant wolf thing with Adam, and the fact that Mercy is a coyote (female too) and he knew she didn't mean anything by it.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Janilee on December 23, 2014, 05:48:27 am
I don't remember the order, had Adam and Asil had their dominance face off by the time Mercy declared Asil hers?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on December 23, 2014, 01:07:22 pm
Yes.

But no matter the outcome, Asil belongs to Bran directly, Mercy is part of Adam's pack with Adam being one of the Alphas who belong to Bran outside of his pack. 
She would not have a claim on Asil as one of hers, even if he were submissive. 

Though I suppose knowing his place could make Asil more willing/able to overlook being falsely claimed. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Itsy-Cat on December 23, 2014, 02:07:16 pm
I suspect it was because Adam is another wolf, and one very close in dominance to Asil, so his wolf couldn't overlook something like being falsely claimed, (especially before he and Adam had established who was more dominant.)
Mercy, on the other hand, is the little coyote girl who peanut buttered Bran's car seat; not anyone his wolf considers a potential threat, which would allow Asil's wolf to overlook a lot of things that he couldn't overlook with another wolf.
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Patti L. on December 23, 2014, 11:29:14 pm
And Mercy was also telling Marisilia, who has a thing for werewolves, "Back off, you'll get trouble trying to take this werewolf, whether from me, this minute, or long term, from his Alpha, who is also (sort of) my uber-Alpha."
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kristenann on December 24, 2014, 12:18:46 am
True, and I think she sort of can't help standing up to Marisilia at this point, considering their history, what she did to Samuel by taking him over, Stefan and the list goes on. Backing down even though Asil can take care of himself could be seen as week, just as it would if she tried that with Honey (who is Mercy's wolf, and Bran's by extension). As we've seen there are vamps worse, if not as bad as Marisilia, but I wonder if others will keep trying to take over her seeth, and if Mercy will be brought into that also. Mercy keeps getting dragged into fae, wolf, and vamp troubles. The fight scene was excellent though, I mean Mercy ended up taking them all down except the one(s) Thomas Hao took care of, though Wulfe didn't seem to be giving the fight his best. Mercy is physically weaker then the wolves, and way easier to kill then the vamps, she doesn't compare to the witches we've seen magically or the fae in all categories, out of all the supes we've encountered she is suppose to be the weakest in all those areas. So far she is fast, stronger then a human, and turns into a coyote with sharp teeth an claws, she can see ghosts, and some magic doesn't work on her, yet she has saved members of all these groups on some level or another. Other than being smart and having connections and friendships, is it because she's lucky and strong willed? Or is there a lot more to Mercy and her untapped potential we have yet to see?
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Kyria on December 24, 2014, 10:21:16 pm
Oh, I know why Mercy did it.
But I want to know what Asil thought of it. 

Anyway, there's a lot to be said for being lucky, strong-willed, clever, and having the right friends. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #7] Frost Burned Discussion **Spoilers**
Post by: Itsy-Cat on January 11, 2015, 08:56:55 pm
I seriously doubt that Asil knew about Marsilla taking Samuel over; it's not, I suspect, something Samuel would want others to know about, and Asil seemed amused by it all (at the time when Mercy was telling Marsilla to back off) and not threatened or worried (until later on when they'd all gone down to the fighting area etc and he thought they should leave.) If Asil had known, I doubt he'd have been amused by it. If Marsilla could take over Samuel, another very old wolf more dominant than Asil, then it makes sense that she might have been able to take control of Asil too. And then there's the problem with the wolf taking over after they wake up from the vampire 'kiss', (which seems like something Marsilla could do, but not other vamps?) Which would be very bad considering Asil's worries over lack of control and his wolf being pretty violent etc.

I wonder what he'd think if he found out about what had happened to Samuel later on though, maybe after discussing with Samuel and Bran how amusing (or whatever he felt) it was to be defended from Marsilla by the little coyote girl? Then discovering that Marsilla actually was a danger and Mercy had once saved Samuel from her.


And with Mercy's powers, I think it was speed and training (and some luck) that helped in actual fights, and friends,  but one of her powers is also that 'coyote magic breaks rules', which is pretty useful in a lot of different situations.