The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Mercy Thompson | A&O Books Board => The Weres => Published Books => Topic started by: hopeless1 on March 25, 2010, 11:26:58 am

Title: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: hopeless1 on March 25, 2010, 11:26:58 am
so, i read silver borne last night and today ( my bookstore got early copies ). It was very very awesome, and just a hint for patty, there were no scenes where mercy needed her coyote to fight, and afterwards, i would have liked to see the party scene! but all over, very good book! i was so happy for sam!

ETA: Title modified. Elle
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on March 25, 2010, 04:12:06 pm
well i live in canada, so i went to chapters. it was definitely amazing. it is about the same lenght as bone crossed, i read it in a few hours and got a migraine  ??? but sam gets all he deserves in this book for sure. it might not seem like it at first, but it has a very happy ending  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on March 26, 2010, 12:01:55 pm
so silver borne was very good. one thing i noticed was mercy is losing her young self, her immaturity, and becoming more like a woman, which i thought was pretty cool. her and adam have really developed in this book as a couple, talking about getting married and moving in together.the parts with samual were very sad though, the whole book i just wanted to read ahead and find out of he was going to be ok. the end of the book seemed so rushed, thats the only part i didnt like. it felt like it didnt have as much time spent on it as the rest of the book. she gets rescued, then theres no talk about the party, no more samual and his girlfriend, it just skips to bran, adam, then her returning the book. i would have also liked to see more of her coyote, there was litteraly only one seen where she shifts. but overall, a very good book, as always i am extremely impressed with patty and her originality, i loved it and cannot wait for the next!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: andracowolf on March 28, 2010, 07:24:05 pm
 >:( >:( >:( how in world were you able to get it 3 days early???
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lgm85 on March 29, 2010, 05:51:31 am
>:( >:( >:( how in world were you able to get it 3 days early???

some places had them availbale early, i ordered mine from Waterstones on 24th March and it got dispatched on the 25th and just got it today in the post :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolfluver121 on March 29, 2010, 08:12:29 am
People got their books early!?! :-' How could I have missed this!  :-'*cutting work to go to my bookstore to look for Silver Bourne*
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on March 29, 2010, 08:35:19 am
Guys, this thread is for discussing the book, not for discussing how early you did (or didn't) get it.  Can we get back on topic, please?

Ellyll, Moderator
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: midnight on March 30, 2010, 11:31:49 am
So I got my copy of SB on the 26 March and have had to take a few days out to absorb it as much as possible and I have to say I loved it. The only part I didn't like was that we didn't get to see the the party at the end. I would have loved to have seen more of this because before Mercy was held hostage, there were still a very tense atmosphere between Mercy and the pack. But during the party I couldn't help but get the impression the the atmosphere was warm between them. (hugging and fussing over Mercy.)

Everything else I  loved. I agree that there was a lot of character development in this book and it was fun to read about. I also loved the more romance side of Mercy and Adams relationship and
I'm glad Samuel has finally found someone to care for in Silver (Ariana, I think thats how you spell it)

And Ben  :D the more the books and story progresses, the more I love Ben. He is such an awesome character. I hope he sticks around for a long time to come. I throroughly enjoy reading about him and Warren too.  :D


 :-LOVE :-LOVE :-LOVE   ADAM    :-LOVE :-LOVE :-LOVE  I so love this man.  I wish he were real. I absolutely adore him.

I was holding my breath the whole time Mercy's house was set on fire and Adam got hurt. I never thought Mary-Jo could be so cruel but then when it was discovered that she had been set up by Paul and Henry I couldn't help but feel sorry for her slightly, though it did not justify her actions in the first place.

I can't wait to see Mercy move in with Adam. I will be an interesting read to see her deal with the pack on a day to day basis.

All in all this book did not disappoint. I loved it.
 
  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 11:52:37 am
Ok, so I raced through my first reading of this!  I just had to find out what happened.  Unfortuantly when I do that, I tend to miss things.  So now I'm starting my re-read so that I catch everything!  So, sorry if my question was something that was answered and I just missed it!

When Ari was telling her story, Samuel said something about that her father hired a witch.  The book mentions that he seems to not like the witch.  Then Sam and Bran had to obey the witch.  So for those of us that have read Cry Wolf, do you think that the witch was Bran's mother?  And this was before they had gotten away from her control?

Also, I really hope that the next time we get a short story from Patty that it's about the month we missed, seeing Samuel and Ari finally come together.  I mean, at the point that they escapped the Fae, Sam still seemed like he couldn't forgive himself for the things that happened to Ari.  Then we jump forward and they are dating?  I love the fact that he's found someone!  Especially someone that can give him the family that he wants, but I REALLY want some details about their relationship and more about their past!  

LOVED the book and am looking forward to reading it again!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 30, 2010, 12:31:48 pm
What kind of supernatural critter is Sam's mate?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 12:33:14 pm
What kind of supernatural critter is Sam's mate?

Fae
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 30, 2010, 12:35:13 pm
How does that answer the baby issue?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 30, 2010, 12:47:47 pm
I dont think in theory there is any probs with children with fae and werewolves if its human babies- but
From the looks of it she had no probs having children with humans although if its a werewolf baby that might be a factor and add the fact that Ari is afraid of weres especially considering her past with them it might be a factor. But I am not sure the having kids will be an issue with Sam as I dont think this is the cure of what is wrong with him.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 01:07:08 pm
I agree that I don't that children would be a problem.  But what do you mean when you say that you don't think this is a cure for what's wrong with him?  Do you think that he's going to continue to have depression issues and such?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 30, 2010, 01:20:27 pm
I think having children is important to him- that scene in the garage with Maia was sweet even though he lacked control. But just having kids is not the key I meant. He needs more and I think Ari especially their shared past will help. I think the main issue with them is going to be her fear of werewolves.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on March 30, 2010, 01:28:25 pm
Ah but Ariana is undeniably getting better with her werewolf issues. And pretty rapidly over the course of a month. I imagine that only wolf-form will give her issues, as long as the wolves in human form aren't snapping and fighting.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 01:40:06 pm
Plus if Sam continues to lone-wolf it, there's no need for too much contact with the other wolves.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 30, 2010, 01:41:32 pm
Ah but Ariana is undeniably getting better with her werewolf issues. And pretty rapidly over the course of a month. I imagine that only wolf-form will give her issues, as long as the wolves in human form aren't snapping and fighting.

True :D But I dont think it will be easy especially if a mate can help calm a wolf although I think Sam has more control and it looks like his wolf is more intuitive but I dont think it will be all plain sailing and wolves arent always calm she has to learn to get use to that especially if shes in danger.
Did you get the sense she can also turn into a hound/wolf? Because her father turned her into one and her panic attacks can lead to that - I think she might be even a berserker like Bran and her panic attacks can turn her into one. Zee looked mighty nervous in that scene when she was having one.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 01:52:20 pm
I had read enough of the spoilers beforehand that I knew that Samuel was going to attempt suicide but in the end would have a good ending (even if there are sure to still be some rocky spots with Ari afraid of werewolves).  But even knowing that in advance, I was on the verge of tears when Mercy was realizing what he had done!  I could just see how heartbroken she was and I was feeling it right along with her.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on March 30, 2010, 01:59:18 pm
What, where did you get the idea that  She could turn into a hound/wolf during her panic attacks? I'm on my fourth read, and I haven't caught that yet.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 30, 2010, 02:07:46 pm
It was a line in the book- when they were talking about the tale of the Silver Borne. Ari says her father turned her into a beast. I'm just guessing its a hound/wolf or it could be something else but since he is a forrest Lord and an he was using hounds and it was something she was afraid of it may be worse torture for her to turn into something she hates and fears.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on March 30, 2010, 02:09:32 pm
It was a line in the book- when they were talking about the tale of the Silver Borne. Ari says her father turned her into a beast. I'm just guessing its a hound/wolf or it could be something else but since he is a forrest Lord and an he was using hounds and it was something she was afraid of it may be worse torture for her to turn into something she hates and fears.

Huh, I didn't get that sense but it's a possibility. We didn't really get to see  what damage she's capable of during her panic attacks.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 02:13:46 pm
It was a line in the book- when they were talking about the tale of the Silver Borne. Ari says her father turned her into a beast. I'm just guessing its a hound/wolf or it could be something else but since he is a forrest Lord and an he was using hounds and it was something she was afraid of it may be worse torture for her to turn into something she hates and fears.

I hadn't thought of that possibility.  When I read that line I was assuming that she meant he figuratively turned her into a beast.  He was hurting her ever day and she finally gave in and did what he wanted.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on March 30, 2010, 02:18:35 pm
That's what I thought it ment too Kas.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Avarel on March 30, 2010, 02:49:45 pm
I like the way Bran's telepathic abilities magically changed.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on March 30, 2010, 02:52:01 pm
You mean that he could hear Mercy? My impression was that may have been a temporary thing due to the witch's magic and the fae queen's binding. I'm curious to see what patty does with it in future books, if it lasts or was a one shot deal.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Avarel on March 30, 2010, 02:53:05 pm
You know, I kept wondering through the first part of the book if the walking stick was the silver borne.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on March 30, 2010, 02:55:26 pm
Maybe it had more too do with pack bonds than werewolves. After all, Mercy may have said that he could speak to any wolf he knew... but how would she know when most of the wolves she would have seen Bran interact with would have been 'his' wolves. Or he could have been speaking to her through the pack bonds, the same way that the other wolves were able to influence her. Bran is older/more dominant. It wouldn't be much of a steach to say he knew how to manipulate the bonds better.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on March 30, 2010, 02:59:19 pm
You know, I kept wondering through the first part of the book if the walking stick was the silver borne.

So did I.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on March 30, 2010, 03:03:42 pm
Maybe it had more too do with pack bonds than werewolves. After all, Mercy may have said that he could speak to any wolf he knew... but how would she know when most of the wolves she would have seen Bran interact with would have been 'his' wolves. Or he could have been speaking to her through the pack bonds, the same way that the other wolves were able to influence her. Bran is older/more dominant. It wouldn't be much of a steach to say he knew how to manipulate the bonds better.

If he hadn't been so surprised that he could hear her, I might buy that :D But he was definitely surprised. If that was normal pack bond behavior, woudl he have been surprised

You know, I kept wondering through the first part of the book if the walking stick was the silver borne.

So did I.

Me three :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 30, 2010, 03:10:03 pm
Didnt Bran say he had a little help with the convo? He said he had trouble getting his head round who was helping them - it was suggested the Forrest Lord but it might be the Walking stick which helped to establish the link or it could be a dun dun dun mysterious unknown person but will find out more in the next book. I also wonder if Bran's abilities will change or affect his telepathic abilities. It also looked like that Mercy and Adam shared a similar bond they seem to get phrases/words as well.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on March 30, 2010, 03:11:49 pm
You're right, I forgot about Bran mentioning that.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 03:21:54 pm
I'm pretty sure that this will end up being something that comes up later on.  Seems like Bran had a theory but didn't want to go into it yet.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Avarel on March 30, 2010, 03:31:16 pm
What is that walking stick? It really doesn't seem like the one that was the farmers.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 30, 2010, 04:16:40 pm
I think that the walking stick has devolped quite a mind of it's own!  So who knows what exactly it can now accomplish!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: skipaliforus on March 30, 2010, 11:06:24 pm
I don't think Bran could hear her, but feel her emotions. she was irritated when he criticized Adam for not showing her how to defend herself with the pack bonds. I think he could feel her irritation, and it surprised him. Which it stated. " A pause followed, And I had the distinct impression of surprise.".



Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Jax on March 31, 2010, 03:24:39 am
Read it! Loved it! Now I Must Get Sleep! :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: bwlrgrl300 on March 31, 2010, 06:35:10 am
agree.  read it and loved it, and is reading it again!

i thought it was the stick that helped bran find mercy.  he was holding it when he came out of basement at adam's.  plus when mercy woke, she was staring into the eyes of the forest lord.  maybe the the walking stick and the forest lord are connected somehow?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on March 31, 2010, 08:18:19 am
agree.  read it and loved it, and is reading it again!

i thought it was the stick that helped bran find mercy.  he was holding it when he came out of basement at adam's.  plus when mercy woke, she was staring into the eyes of the forest lord.  maybe the the walking stick and the forest lord are connected somehow?

Did you recognize the snippets I gave you?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on March 31, 2010, 10:11:51 am
Well, I still have 1.5 pages left to go (which is ridiculous, darn work), but I'm not too terribly worried about spoilers anymore.

I thought Patty's visualization of the pack and mate bonds was lovely and unique. And the visible results of Mary Jo, et al's, meddling in Adam and Mercy's bond made the damage all the more palpable-- though when Mercy messed with Daryll and Aurielle's mate bond , their reactions to it were sweet. If that makes sense.

Samuel and Ariana, I think they will make a good pair. She'll give him that deeper connection he's been missing. And the fact that they could have half-fae/half-human babies (that could be as immortal as they are) is icing on the cake. Not that there won't be bumps in their relationship along the way. It was bittersweet for me though, mostly because it signified the end of the Samuel-Mercy Trailer Pack... And I have problems with change. ;D

Hm, what else. Oh, after the bowling scene, when it was revealed that Adam's ex-wife would use silence as a weapon, the reactions he had just pulled my heartstrings for him. That woman was just no good.

I am really enjoying how Adam and Mercy are growing together. And the scene in Warren's apartment... *wink, wink* *nudge, nudge*  O)

That's all I can think of for the moment...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on March 31, 2010, 10:31:20 am
I was kind of intrigued how Mercy was either entirely engrossed in the whole Elphame/rescue Gabriel scenario or had actually managed after all the other drama to forget that her home had exploded and burned, so she had no other clothes she could have worn when Zee was opening the portal, she was picking burrs out of her socks and thinking she would have worn something heavier if she'd known she'd be out in that kind of weather and landscape.  She didn't own but the one set of clothes she was wearing when things blew up!  Ditto Sam, actually - except he doesn't even have that.  First he wrecked his car, then the trailer blew, so he's got squat, unless he's left anything in Aspen Creek.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 10:37:28 am
Favorite parts:

Loved the imagery of the pack bonds, and the idea of Adam and Mercy's "garland" all frayed and knotted together.  Very sweet to me.  Showed not that it had been put through the wringer, but rather that they cared enough to keep patching it together.  For me, that spoke of commitment and determination.  And I liked how Bran questioned Mercy about why rocks and not ornaments (to go with her garlands) and her answer was that werewolves were strong...not fragile like Christmas tree ornaments.

Loved the bit with Mercy and Adam at Warren's apartment.  Hubba-hubba.

Ben, Ben, Ben.  I just adore Ben.  He was such a git, and I've just loved watching him turn into a decent person.  Or rather, I've loved watching the decent person in him re-emerge.  And he just adores Mercy -- it's obvious! -- and I have to love him all the more for his good taste!

Loved the bit with Sam/Samuel.  Makes me want to dig out Moon Called, because there's a bit in that book -- on the way back to the Tri-Cities from Montana, and Sam's giving Adam a hard time, and Mercy slams on the breaks and gets out of the van and fusses at Samuel, and she calls him Sam.  He's all, "You called me Sam."  At the time, it didn't mean anything to me, but now I want to go back and re-read the series, looking for occasions when she called him Sam and not Samuel.  On those occasions, was Samuel being more wolfy...or more human?

I loved how Patty accomplished so much in this book, without making any of it seem really "contrived."  Like...  At the end of Bone Crossed, Mercy and Adam were mated but still living in separate households, and they didn't know when that was going to change because of the whole Sam thing.  Plus, deep down, Mercy didn't really want to give up her home...but ESPECIALLY she didn't want to be always around Adam's house, knowing that the pack mostly resented her.  And with this book, the pack problems were resolved (or at least greatly improved), and Sam's situation was improved, and the where-to-live issue was pretty much decided.  I mean, she HAS to move in with him now, right?  And yet none of it felt like a checklist:  tick, tick, tick.  It all seemed really organic in the way it played out.  I liked that.

Yay for Gabriel for standing up to his mother.  Not that I would generally applaud that kind of defiance, but he KNOWS Mercy, and he knows what the situation there is.  He's almost a man, and it was nice seeing him make decisions as a man.  And I also liked how Ariana touched Jesse and basically announced, "Oh, yeah...Gabriel loves you!" by calling her a lodestone.  

Auriele confused me.  In this book, she seemed solidly in Mercy's court.  But last time we saw Auriele (in Bone Crossed), she was NOT HAPPY about Mercy's addition to the pack.  Remember the scene in the truck when Mercy told Auriele to suck it up and deal?  Nothing more was said of that, but I kind of expected there to be ongoing issues.  So to see her so totally accepting/supporting of Mercy surprised me.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on March 31, 2010, 10:50:29 am
Ben, Ben, Ben.  I just adore Ben.  He was such a git, and I've just loved watching him turn into a decent person.  Or rather, I've loved watching the decent person in him re-emerge.  And he just adores Mercy -- it's obvious! -- and I have to love him all the more for his good taste!

Yes, I forgot Ben! Each book, he just grows on you more. Can't wait to see what is in store for him.

I loved how Patty accomplished so much in this book, without making any of it seem really "contrived."  Like...  ...  And yet none of it felt like a checklist:  tick, tick, tick.  It all seemed really organic in the way it played out.  I liked that.

Very true! A lot of issues were neatly resolved or dealt with in a natural way. It'll be interesting to see in the next book what Mercy and Adam are like once they are living together fulltime.


As for Aurielle, I think her biggest problem at the end of BC was that she can be a stick in the mud. Takes her a while to adjust to new people or things. Adam mentioned how the person she was the least fond of when she first joined the pack was Daryll. Now look at them.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on March 31, 2010, 10:54:38 am
Nifty, good point.  I wonder if maybe Auriele perhaps feels a little more from Mercy than others through the pack bond, and realizes that what her Alpha pair has is as true and deep as what she & Darryl have?  Or maybe she found out what Mary Jo, Henry, & Paul were up to, ganging up like bullies on Mercy and decided that it was time to act like a mature and reasonable adult instead of joining them.

With regard to the uniqueness of the vision of the pack & mate bonds... not so much.  It's something you'll see in Zen gardens sometimes, but also it's very similar to the vision Shan has of Val Con's mind/spirit when he's helping Edger heal him in "I Dare" by Sharon Lee & Steve Miller.  I noticed it immediately, since the series is a favorite of mine.  The garland of the pack bonds isn't there, but there is a rock, or rather a ROCK, and ropes.  The lifemate bond is - something else.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on March 31, 2010, 11:21:21 am
Ditto Sam, actually - except he doesn't even have that.  First he wrecked his car, then the trailer blew, so he's got squat, unless he's left anything in Aspen Creek.

I think he has a home in Aspen Creek still, it's mentioned sometime during this book. I'm pretty sure. It could've been said in BC.
Oh no! Now that's a thought, Sam moving back to Aspen Creek - since he's no longer hiding his issues from Bran. That'd break my heart.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 11:28:48 am
I don't think Sam would leave the Tri-Cities.  Not to return to Aspen Creek, anyway.  Yeah, Bran is his Da and Charles is his brother...but Mercy is family, too.  And I think he likes a lot of aspects of his life with/near Mercy...and even Adam.  (Like the hospital.)

And also, because of his dominance, he doesn't have a lot of places to go.  If he ran into other wolves, it could possibly go badly.  But he's accepted in the Tri-Cities by Adam and his pack.  In a way, they sort of accept him as part of them.  They trust him, rely on him.  They're a good fit for him as an extremely dominant lone-wolf.  And even though he knows 1) Mercy can take care of herself and 2) Adam can take care of Mercy and 3) the pack can help take care of Mercy and 4) Bran can come in and help take care of Mercy, the fact remains that Mercy needs a lot of strong allies on her side!!  Sam might as well stay where he can be useful.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on March 31, 2010, 11:37:43 am
 LOL Haha, true. Poor Mercy. All those people in her corner, helping her out messes.  :P
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolfluver121 on March 31, 2010, 11:55:17 am
So, I bought "Silver Borne" yesterday and just finished it today. I got say..I'm slightly disappointed. *hides from fans*

It's just, it felt kind of rushed to me. Especially towards the end. And the whole "Silver and Samuel" kind of threw me.

Spoiler Alert!!!!!!



I mean, it was all kind of sudden, I guess. He's had this 15 year(or so) thing for Mercy. And that's just instantly gone, and then Silver appears. I guess I feel sort of mother hen-ish. We barely know this Silver, and suddenly Samuel's in love with her? I know that they met in the WAY past, but I guess I feel like we really didn't get any foreshadowing at all about Silver, or Samuel's connection with her.

I mean, when he was wanting to kill himself, did he know she was alive? Was he in love with her then? Are they a mated pair? I'm very confused on the whole situation.

I read the page, and was like 'what?' 'oh...so he's over mercy now and likes this silver girl?'  I'm a Samuel/Sam fan, but I'm so confused!  ???

I liked how all the other characters got more personality in this book. You really got to see pack dynamic, and liked Bran's appearance as well. But the end of the book just really threw me for a loop.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: bwlrgrl300 on March 31, 2010, 11:57:16 am
agree.  read it and loved it, and is reading it again!

i thought it was the stick that helped bran find mercy.  he was holding it when he came out of basement at adam's.  plus when mercy woke, she was staring into the eyes of the forest lord.  maybe the the walking stick and the forest lord are connected somehow?

Did you recognize the snippets I gave you?

absolutely!!!  and thank you for that!  it kept me sane while waiting!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on March 31, 2010, 12:08:14 pm
Remember to use the spoiler tags everyone. We want everyone to enjoy the book and we don't want to accidentally spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it yet.

Code: [Select]
[spoiler]Your spoiler content goes here.[/spoiler]
Thanks, Elle

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 12:12:13 pm
I'm not sure that I'd say Sam is in love with Ariana.  It's obvious, though, that they have history...that goes way, way back to Sam's early days.  And I think he feels very protective of her, in the way that strong men often do of women in general, but also the women they know and care about.  For me, it wasn't that a switch flipped and suddenly he's in love with Ariana.  But rather, she's back in his life, and her sudden reappearance -- and the context of their history together, whatever those details are -- is enough to re-interest him in life.  I definitely get the sense that they are to be a mated pair, but I think their relationship has a long way to go, just as Mercy and Adam's did.

I do agree that there was no foreshadowing about Ariana before now, but that's not an automatic "miss" for me.  I'm willing to just see how things develop there.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: gryphon340 on March 31, 2010, 12:13:53 pm
Mike, the fights were awsome, and trust coyote to gun to a fist fight was great good take off of old adage
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: kas913 on March 31, 2010, 12:15:23 pm

Oh no! Now that's a thought, Sam moving back to Aspen Creek - since he's no longer hiding his issues from Bran. That'd break my heart.

I really don't see Sam moving back, at least not yet.  Especially considering that Ari still has issues with werewolves, especially more than one of them at a time!!!  Can't imagine them moving to Aspen Creek where she'd be surrounded by them
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolfluver121 on March 31, 2010, 12:33:23 pm
I didn't say that it was a 'miss' for me. I just got really confused by the whole relationship. I'm re-reading right now, to try and grasp it. But I was just very surprised by the appearance of Silver and then her connection to Samuel.

Speaking of which, there's a point earlier in the book when SAM is sitting in the car, and Mercy is going into the bookstore, where Phin's Grandmother 'Silver' is at. It's noted that Samuel looks like he's hiding, and Mercy questions him about it and she guesses that as a 'yes' that he's hiding from the fae (Silver) inside the bookstore. So, if he knew then... that Silver was inside the bookstore, why didn't Samuel(the man) come to the forefront? Wouldn't he have been able to smell her, with all her fae-ness? Just a thought that popped in my head.

Re-reading the confusing parts, for me, and understanding it a lot better! I think it was just a lot of new information within a few pages, and it had me reeling.

Hope I did the spoiler code thingy right. :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on March 31, 2010, 12:44:08 pm
Speaking of which, there's a point earlier in the book when SAM is sitting in the car, and Mercy is going into the bookstore, where Phin's Grandmother 'Silver' is at. It's noted that Samuel looks like he's hiding, and Mercy questions him about it and she guesses that as a 'yes' that he's hiding from the fae (Silver) inside the bookstore. So, if he knew then... that Silver was inside the bookstore, why didn't Samuel(the man) come to the forefront? Wouldn't he have been able to smell her, with all her fae-ness? Just a thought that popped in my head.


Hope I did the spoiler code thingy right. :D

I was wondering about that too. I missed it on the first read but thought of it on the second one.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on March 31, 2010, 01:54:00 pm
There were a couple of spots where the timing seemed to get away, regarding Samuel both Changing and changing, I thought.  I mean he was supposedly getting into the clothes in the back of Adam's SUV on the way to meet Zee & Silver at Mercy's garage, yet he stays in the vehicle when Mercy & Jesse get out, and only comes in later.

Also, it's possible that part of what has been sending Samuel into his suicidal funk was that he'd guessed some at least of what Silver felt about werewolves & canids in general, why he left when he'd doctored her up to the point it was clear she'd live.  So he may have thought of her as an impossible unrequited love.  Then the women he turned to as alternatives to him died, and their children died, and he knew she could still be living but he couldn't go near her, and Mercy was out of his reach.  And then she reappeared.  When he was down and vulnerable, and had not just chinks in his armor, but the sodding welds had failed.  And he discovered it might not be so unrequited after all.  Neither werewolves nor fae change easily; she could have been carrying a torch for him all this time too, with perhaps even less belief that she would meet him again, given how old werewolves go crazy and die.  That was a suffering long time ago.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: tess_tarr on March 31, 2010, 02:02:42 pm
I just got done with Silver Borne and I loved it!!! I can't wait for the next on and hope there are many more to come!!!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Sammibalthecannibal on March 31, 2010, 02:39:31 pm
I think this has been my favorite book mostly because of looking back and seeing how ever one has developed. Also, it had a lot more than normal of my two favorite(other than Mercy)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on March 31, 2010, 02:41:26 pm
Oh no! Now that's a thought, Sam moving back to Aspen Creek - since he's no longer hiding his issues from Bran. That'd break my heart.
I really don't see Sam moving back, at least not yet.  Especially considering that Ari still has issues with werewolves, especially more than one of them at a time!!!  Can't imagine them moving to Aspen Creek where she'd be surrounded by them

And especially in Aspen Creek where some of the wolves are the most difficult.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Lord_Raken on March 31, 2010, 03:36:35 pm
So, I bought "Silver Borne" yesterday and just finished it today. I got say..I'm slightly disappointed. *hides from fans*

It's just, it felt kind of rushed to me. Especially towards the end. And the whole "Silver and Samuel" kind of threw me.
 

For me I wouldn't used the word "disappointed." I loved the book from start to finish.

What I think we need to do is understand something. These book have deadlines and short ones at that (what is it 6 months per book?). In light of this, I think that its remarkable that she can fit so much into these books and make it all make reasonable sense. Also, and I might be assuming here, but I think Mrs. Briggs writing style understands that life tends to dump on you all at once. Many things suddenly jump up and one has to handle them all. I think Mrs. Briggs does an amazing job of weaving these multitudinous threads together.

That being said I understand your position. The ending did feel a little rushed and sometimes things feel a little smooched together. I don't want to be pretentious but I suspect (humbly) that if given a little more time Mrs Briggs would have the opportunity to relax the compact nature of the plot and allow the interesting, touching, awesome, or *wink*wink* romantic moments to breath before moving on to the next fascinating development.

Now that I'm done with my analysis (for now) I can now GUSH a bit.

I loved SB! It was interesting and the characters were absolutely fascinating. Seriously I was more interested in the character relationships than I was the central conflict. In fact..... I think this conflict was less central to the story than some previous conflicts. Wait... no that's not right. It provided the structure for the overarching conflict  but within this conflict the smaller stories are what really captured my attention (maybe because this comes in the shadow of Bone Crossed and THAT conflict was very personal and very central). Mercy and Adam, Ben (did anyone else notice that Ben was paying quite a bit of attention to Jessie? probably just my imagination) Sam/Smauel.

But any way. I feel as this is a new beginning for the series. Many of the old conflicts have been (mostly) resolved. Mercy and Adam are solidly together, Samuel's situation has been handled, the vampires still don't like mercy but have dropped any real contentions (I missed Stefan in this book :(), and now she has helped the Fae once again. The slate is clean for a whole new set of conflicts and trouble to find mercy and her friends.

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!



 Did anyone else notice that the fae called Mercy HALF human and that the same rules in that "magic place" didn't apply to her? There are a whole bunch of interesting tidbits in those pages... Now we must wait to what they become.  bOuNcY
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 04:12:20 pm
Over in the River Marked thread, Tess wrote this:
Quote
am I the only one that hopes to see a wedding for Adam and Mercy and maybe a baby for Sam in this book!!!

And I thought of the part in Silver Borne where Mercy is telling us that her sister had eloped and her mother was disappointed, because she was determined to have A WEDDING, with doves and everything.   And suddenly, reading Tess's post, I had this sudden image of Mercy and Adam's wedding...with cooing doves on the wing...and hungry werewolves launching into the air to catch them and gobble them up...and wedding guests shrieking...chairs falling over...Margi horrified...Kyle in a purple wifebeater...Ben about to call some woman the c-word until Warren kicks him hard in the shin to shut him up...Adam and Mercy amused by their so-non-traditional wedding.......    LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on March 31, 2010, 04:19:22 pm
LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 31, 2010, 04:35:04 pm
LMAO Nifty I think you are so right about that - when I read that Margi wanted white Doves - I kept thinking of hungry werewolves and I can see mayhem happening during the wedding. :D
I do think Adam will get Margi on side and probably goes in cahoots with her to get Mercy down that Aisle
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 04:43:27 pm
LMAO Nifty I think you are so right about that - when I read that Margi wanted white Doves - I kept thinking of hungry werewolves and I can see mayhem happening during the wedding. :D
I do think Adam will get Margi on side and probably goes in cahoots with her to get Mercy down that Aisle

And Mercy, being Mercy, would do it if it meant making her mother and Adam happy.  It wouldn't be her cup of tea, but I've noticed that unless she has a REALLY strong aversion to something, she doesn't dig in her heels.  She tries to avoid or ignore the thing she doesn't like or the thing that is not "her," but if she can't out-maneuver it, or if she knows it would mean a lot to someone she loves, she's gracious about it.  Another reason why I like her!  She's a class-act, through and through.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 31, 2010, 04:50:22 pm
Yep! I agree - I think that Mercy would also relent because of what she knows now about the people who love her - like Bran *I can see him walking her down the aisle* :D  But also the fact that Margi is a scary woman and who thinks that Christy will show up and cause some trouble!!!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: iluvadam on March 31, 2010, 04:55:40 pm
I devoured the book yesterday and utterly LOVED it!!!   Now we have to wait another year but it was soooooo worth it!   Bows head to Mrs. Patty for another excellent read!!!!!!!!   :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 04:58:06 pm
Quote
and who thinks that Christy will show up and cause some trouble!!!

I dunno about that one.  She hasn't really caused too much trouble so far, so it would seem a bit contrived to suddenly have her appear and start causing trouble.  I hope that doesn't happen.  It would be in character for her, based on what we know of her, but not in character for the BOOKS and the way Patty has been writing them.

As for Bran walking Mercy down the aisle...absolutely!  And Sam possibly as best man.  I dunno.  He's good friends with Adam, but moreso with Mercy.  And would Darryl be offended if Adam chose Sam over him?  How about...  Sam as Mercy's "best man" and Jesse as Adam's?  That would work!  I like it!

Mod note: I accidently replied on your post Nifty (slaps forehead)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on March 31, 2010, 05:11:43 pm
Did anyone else notice that the fae called Mercy HALF human and that the same rules in that "magic place" didn't apply to her? There are a whole bunch of interesting tidbits in those pages... Now we must wait to what they become.  bOuNcY
Also, "almost mortal".  I found the choice interesting... because indications seem to be that walkers are mortal, even if not strictly human.  I wonder if this may have something to do with the pack bonds?  Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, though.

Someone way back mentioned  that Sam's new relationship spells the end to his "pack" with Mercy.  It's probably just my love of the Sam-Mercy dynamic, but I don't think his wolf is going to just stop considering Mercy to be Pack, just because he now has Ariana.


Regarding Sam's not shifting and going into the bookstore with Mercy when Ariana was there the first time:  Ariana is afraid of wolves, and whatever his feelings for her (I got the impression that he had loved her back when, but had left her alone because of her fear), he would want to avoid the panic his presence might cause.  He also stayed away when Mercy and Jesse went to meet Zee and Ariana, until Ariana Named him, and then he was called to her (remember the end of Hunting Ground?)

As for Adam's best man, I think it more likely that Warren would be in that spot, unless there's some wolf tradition regarding having the Second be Best Man.  I don't remember where it was mentioned, but somewhere it is mentioned that Warren is Adam's best friend.  Sam I think more likely to be on Mercy's side, and I can see Mercy getting a kick out of doing the non-traditional thing and having a guy Maid of Honor.  Or else she could have Jesse fill that spot and relegate Sam to the more traditional spot in Adam's groomsmen

I do agree that the ending seemed a little bit rushed, but I wasn't bothered by it at all, particularly with being written to a deadline.  I sure couldn't do that!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 05:13:27 pm
Kyria, you're right!  How could I have forgotten about Warren?  It's been said several times that he's Adam's best friend.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 31, 2010, 05:14:27 pm
I could see her causing trouble- I think somewhere on the site Patty mentioned that Christy still considers those hers even if she threw it away and I think there is a lot of forshadowing in Silver Borne specifically about Adam and his relationship with Christy.
As for his best man - has to be Warren :D

Sorry about replying on your post Nifty- Ugh LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 05:24:54 pm
That's okay.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: skipaliforus on March 31, 2010, 05:26:52 pm
While i agree that the end was too short, one thing we all should realize is that Mercy was gone for a month, Adam was scaring the crap out of everyone. Sam was starting to reconnect with Ari. Zee was trying to gather help from other fey, and bran was helping look for her as well. by the end of the month we have the majority of the pack worried about mercy, whether because they are afraid of what Adam will do if they don't find her or, because they actually care about her....anyone else smell a great plot for a short story release in a future anthology or something? :-whistle


Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: gryphon340 on March 31, 2010, 05:27:06 pm
 Kyle as Matron of Honor
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on March 31, 2010, 05:35:26 pm
I could so see that gryphon.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 05:39:14 pm
Speaking of Kyle...  I thought it was incredibly sweet that he keeps some rooms in his house decorated kid-style for the children of his clients, if they have need of a safe-house.  He's SUCH a good guy.  :-* :-LOVE
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on March 31, 2010, 05:41:23 pm
While i agree that the end was too short, one thing we all should realize is that Mercy was gone for a month, Adam was scaring the crap out of everyone. Sam was starting to reconnect with Ari. Zee was trying to gather help from other fey, and bran was helping look for her as well. by the end of the month we have the majority of the pack worried about mercy, whether because they are afraid of what Adam will do if they don't find her or, because they actually care about her....anyone else smell a great plot for a short story release in a future anthology or something? :-whistle



That is a very good point!
And Adam was half crazed at that point - maybe his pack especially those who disliked Mercy could see the consequences especially after the aftermath of Henry, Paul and Mary-Jo's meddling. I also wonder if Adam's pack and how they view the status of female weres especially those who are mated to lesser ranking ones like Honey will affect packs outside their own. There was a mention of other packs accepting gay wolves - I could see more tensions from other wolves than inside the pack in future books.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on March 31, 2010, 05:47:59 pm
Well, Adam's pack should definitely upset the apple cart and reorder things according to dominance, and not gender. Mary Jo had a good point:  the women aren't required for the survival of the species.  So they SHOULDN'T be protected simply because they wear their gonads on the inside.  It SHOULD be about dominance.  But it it should also be about the ability to hold that position.  Honey may be dominant -- and one of the books indicated she's a good fighter -- but if she can't defend the position that is rightfully hers through her degree of dominance, she should have to give it up to whomever can defeat her.  

But I WOULD like to see Adam broach the issue with his pack and let them re-arrange things, if they're so inclined.  And it seemed that several of them would be okay with it.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: gryphon340 on March 31, 2010, 05:49:46 pm
Correction it was Aurliee who said that
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on March 31, 2010, 05:52:59 pm
Correction it was Aurliee who that

By golly, Gryphon, that one needs to be edited for clarity.  It makes NO sense as it stands.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: gryphon340 on March 31, 2010, 06:00:02 pm
corected
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on March 31, 2010, 06:03:27 pm
Said that what?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on March 31, 2010, 06:09:00 pm
Well, Adam's pack should definitely upset the apple cart and reorder things according to dominance, and not gender. Mary Jo had a good point:  the women aren't required for the survival of the species.  So they SHOULDN'T be protected simply because they wear their gonads on the inside.  It SHOULD be about dominance.  But it it should also be about the ability to hold that position.  Honey may be dominant -- and one of the books indicated she's a good fighter -- but if she can't defend the position that is rightfully hers through her degree of dominance, she should have to give it up to whomever can defeat her.  

But I WOULD like to see Adam broach the issue with his pack and let them re-arrange things, if they're so inclined.  And it seemed that several of them would be okay with it.
Mates can draw upon each other's power to enforce dominance, and that's Pack magic, which I've never seen as being influenced by the laws... it exists as it always has.  Is this only a female-draws-on-male thing?  Could Peter (I think its Peter, I don't want to go searching right now) draw on Honey's dominance?  If things get mixed up in the males-get-ranked, females-match-their-mates-or-are-at-the-bottom world of the wolves, would Peter move up in the Pack, too?  Because it seems to me that if the rules change so that females take their rank based on dominance, Mercy moves to the bottom of the Pack, and that's not going to make her happy... not that anyone would screw with the Alpha's mate, but that technically she would have to submit to them.


And, speaking of Honey's mate...
In Iron Kissed, Ben specifically says that there are two subs (submissives) in the pack... that he's ranked last except for them.  I can't find it now, but I could have sworn that somewhere in Silver Borne, Mercy states that Peter is the only submissive in the Pack, the only one that would never be involved in stupid dominance games.

Now, it's possible that I'm remembering wrong (I read FAST, for one thing) but that was a detail that sent up a red flag in my brain as "something does not add up."
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: gryphon340 on March 31, 2010, 06:09:56 pm
what nifty quoted:  page 235, Auriele
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: YuleRule on March 31, 2010, 06:22:39 pm
Kyria, I think you're right about the mistake in the number of submissives in the pack.
I read the entire book in one go. A nice long airplane ride, gives you all the time necessary with no intruptions. :) Anyway, after reading all that about Samuel, and Sam the wolf, I got a bunch of questions about the wolf part of a werewolf.

How intelligent is the wolf? Sam spoke in sentences, could make decisons like not to shift, and understood Mercy. Anna's wolf could only speak in one word, and most other wolves were shown more as instinct, and almost no thinking. Does it depend on the age of the werewolf?
Was Samuel aware of everything his wolf did at all times? Or was it more like in Hunting Ground, that Samuel was "asleep"?
And Charles has a different relationship with his wolf, who apperently could also "think"
When did Mercy meet Anna?
Bran is also old, would his wolf be as controllable and controlled?
Did Mercy see Bran the Beserker, when finding out about the pack bonds?
And how does the wolf in a werewolf compare with a regular, nonmagical wolf in intelligence and more?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on March 31, 2010, 06:52:55 pm
See the problem with airplanes is deciding exactly how much reading material is needed to fill it.  Too often I reach my destination with all of my reading done and nothing to occupy me for the trip home, nor any space in my luggage for a new book.  

My thoughts on your questions, then, YuleRule:
I also noticed the obvious difference in intelligence between Sam and other wolves.  But Sam is special on several levels, not the least of which is the fact that he was able to act just like a dog and behave himself while Samuel was... incapacitated.  Part of this is probably age and experience, as far as Sam's ability to communicate, but at the same time, I think part of it is just the way Sam/Samuel is.  For example, Brother Wolf seems to have always been intelligent and communicative... also Anna points out that he is not constrained by anything so human as speech, although in order to efficiently pass on his perspectives in book form, that is what he is recorded as.  Charles also tells Anna that she was born Omega, just like his dad was born freaky-uberdominant (OK so Charles would NOT use those words, but you get my point).  It seems to me that Sam/Samuel is the same way... he's naturally intelligent, and he's a natural healer despite the wolf's prey drive.

As for Samuel's awareness when Sam was in charge, I don't think he was "asleep" so much as not caring to pay attention and limited to only what perceptions Sam allowed.  I don't know whose decision it was for him to come forward when Adam was hurt, or if both of them saw the need and (as happens with Charles and Brother Wolf) they let Samuel come out because he could take better care of the situation.  The way Samuel reacted to Mary Jo and Paul's injuries later makes me think that maybe Sam had more to do with it than I would otherwise guess... that Sam gave him the wolf equivalent of a kick in the butt and said, "protect these wolves" but Samuel wanted to convince them that he's not worth saving, so he turned away.  It would have been easier to not help if he had left the wolf in control.  

Remember that Anna has been around since the end of Moon Called, approximately, and she and Charles went to Seattle at least once... There's plenty of time in there for them to have crossed paths.

I don't think Bran's wolf is as polite as Sam or Brother Wolf (if you can call Brother Wolf "polite"... perhaps "calculating" would be better).  Remember that when Bran loses control, the Beserker comes out to play unless his mate or Anna is around.  Sure, that makes him absolutely deadly, the most powerful wolf in the land, and it doesn't mean the wolf isn't intelligent (or it probably wouldn't have survived the years of being in control way back when they broke free of Bran's mother.
And my opinion is that yeah, Mercy got a little glimpse of Bran's wolf-the-Beserker when they were having their little chat.  

As for the last, your guess is as good as mine.  I don't speak wolf, although I believe wolf intelligence should be fairly high, as a social predator.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on March 31, 2010, 06:58:58 pm

And, speaking of Honey's mate...
In Iron Kissed, Ben specifically says that there are two subs (submissives) in the pack... that he's ranked last except for them.  I can't find it now, but I could have sworn that somewhere in Silver Borne, Mercy states that Peter is the only submissive in the Pack, the only one that would never be involved in stupid dominance games.

Now, it's possible that I'm remembering wrong (I read FAST, for one thing) but that was a detail that sent up a red flag in my brain as "something does not add up."


But would Mercy count Honey as submissive, when her natural dominance is much higher up? Where Ben, who's just a wee bit sexist undoubtably would count her as submissive. So the 'error' could just be two different characters' perceptions.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on March 31, 2010, 07:05:21 pm
I don't know.  I think Submissive and Female are pretty well separated, even for Ben.  If he was going to count Honey as submissive based on her mate, he would count Mary Jo as submissive too, based on her being an unmated female and therefore at the bottom of the pack.  So the numbers don't add up. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Avarel on March 31, 2010, 11:24:41 pm
Maybe one of the submissives left the pack.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on April 01, 2010, 08:39:17 am
 "she's higher rank than I am, so I can't ask her." Ben on Mary Jo, SB, page 185. So He doesn't think of Mary Jo as submissive.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 01, 2010, 03:24:49 pm
I haven't read this whole discussion yet. I just finished Silver Borne literally 20 minutes ago.
But... what the heck is Kyle and Warren doing with all of that meat?  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 01, 2010, 03:50:10 pm
You know Liliana  I was wondering the same thing - also if Kyle wasn't interested in camping overnight especially in the midst of winter. I think I am missing the obvious but Warren had a cheeky smile :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 01, 2010, 04:21:42 pm
Inquiring minds (including mine) want to know!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 01, 2010, 04:22:49 pm
me too! me too!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: cathgarc on April 01, 2010, 04:53:26 pm
Created an account just so I can join the discussion. I've been wondering the same thing ever since I finished reading the book. I kept thinking that I missed something when I was reading. I really want to know what was up with the meat and camping gear? I wonder if we will ever find out.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 01, 2010, 05:11:17 pm
Who knows? It might just be one of those things that Kyle and Warren keep to themselves.  ;D

Did anyone notice that Ben seemed a bit sweet on Jesse when he gave a sly grin behind her back but was caught by Mercy?

I just have to say I fell in love with Ben in this book. I loved him for what did for Mercy in IK but I felt like we really got to know him more in this book.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: littlebittysami on April 01, 2010, 06:27:00 pm
Oh well, it's my job to be a bit of a spoilsport, I guess.

I was disappointed with Silver Borne. To me  Samuel's storyline was a complete washout. I felt like Patty gave us a great build up and it all came to nothing. Samuel is my absolute favorite character of Patty's and I was hoping to learn so much more about him, and in my opinion, we didn't because he spent most of the book in wolf form and therefore was completely non verbal until the end. I feel like I learned more about Adam in Silver Borne than I did about Sam. I wanted a little more than that small glimpse into Samuel's relationship with Charles. I think the part when Mercy was talking to Charles on the phone about Samuel was my favorite of the book, because we got to see how much Samuel means to his brother in that little bitty piece of text. It made me tear up.

 I hate to say this, but wasn't feeling Sam/Ariana's old but new relationship. Ariana left me a bit cold. I'm sure that once she's fleshed out more, I'll like her better.

I was so looking forward to this book, I could barely wait to get home on Tuesday and start reading.

While I was disappointed with Sam's storyline, there was plenty I did like in Silver Borne. I liked the stuff in the book that had to do with the Columbia Basin pack. Some people might have found it violent,  but I was happy when Mercy shot Henry in throat to prevent him from challenging Adam after the fight with Paul. I love the way Adam and Mercy's relationship is progressing. I loved Mercy's loyalty to Sam, I loved Warren and Kyle (as always) Zee was well written as usual and I really have to give Patty kudos when it comes to Jesse. I love Jesse so much, that kid has guts to spare. and yes, I did like the sex scene, if only because Patty still has a lot of restraint, so we aren't getting graphic depictions of the measurements of Adam's body parts or bodily fluids and it is still left up to our filthy imaginations. Hopefully it will stay that way.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: dryad on April 01, 2010, 06:58:08 pm
You mean that he could hear Mercy? My impression was that may have been a temporary thing due to the witch's magic and the fae queen's binding. I'm curious to see what patty does with it in future books, if it lasts or was a one shot deal.

I thought that the fact that he could hear Mercy might have to do with him holding the walking stick.  It cleared the way for him to find her, and possibly made it possible for him to hear her back.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 01, 2010, 07:44:24 pm
Oh well, it's my job to be a bit of a spoilsport, I guess.

I was disappointed with Silver Borne. To me  Samuel's storyline was a complete washout. I felt like Patty gave us a great build up and it all came to nothing. Samuel is my absolute favorite character of Patty's and I was hoping to learn so much more about him, and in my opinion, we didn't because he spent most of the book in wolf form and therefore was completely non verbal until the end. I feel like I learned more about Adam in Silver Borne than I did about Sam. I wanted a little more than that small glimpse into Samuel's relationship with Charles. I think the part when Mercy was talking to Charles on the phone about Samuel was my favorite of the book, because we got to see how much Samuel means to his brother in that little bitty piece of text. It made me tear up.

 I hate to say this, but wasn't feeling Sam/Ariana's old but new relationship. Ariana left me a bit cold. I'm sure that once she's fleshed out more, I'll like her better. 

I was so looking forward to this book, I could barely wait to get home on Tuesday and start reading.

While I was disappointed with Sam's storyline, there was plenty I did like in Silver Borne. I liked the stuff in the book that had to do with the Columbia Basin pack. Some people might have found it violent,  but I was happy when Mercy shot Henry in throat to prevent him from challenging Adam after the fight with Paul. I love the way Adam and Mercy's relationship is progressing. I loved Mercy's loyalty to Sam, I loved Warren and Kyle (as always) Zee was well written as usual and I really have to give Patty kudos when it comes to Jesse. I love Jesse so much, that kid has guts to spare. and yes, I did like the sex scene, if only because Patty still has a lot of restraint, so we aren't getting graphic depictions of the measurements of Adam's body parts or bodily fluids and it is still left up to our filthy imaginations. Hopefully it will stay that way.
I second the comment about the restraint Patty has re: sex scenes.  SO many times I find myself totally giving up on a book because the sex gets graphic.  

Regarding Ariana, I also thought her character was a little sparse and I'm not so sure about her yet, but I also felt that Sam obviously cares about her, and we only really met her at the end, so there wasn't much time for character building... so I'm guessing I'll like her more once we get to know her better.  

As for Samuel... didn't we learn a lot about him?  I liked getting to know Sam as separate from Samuel.  Sure, we didn't really get much as far as a detailed look inside Samuel's head, but I felt like we were shown a lot in the small amounts of time that Samuel did come out.  I would have liked to see a little bit more closure, though... it seemed like, "And... meet Ariana, and he's all better" and nobody seemed to approach the subject after that.  Being that it was such a huge part of the storyline, I felt like maybe there should have been some more observation of Samuel's status at the very end... but I guess the time that Mercy was missing probably covered a lot of Bran, Adam, etc. keeping tabs on him.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 01, 2010, 07:58:25 pm
We learned a fair amount about Samuel's past.  That - for instance - Bran and he were in a pack together in "the old country" with Bran as Alpha, long and long ago.  And that Samuel was a healer even then, which we didn't know; I'd somehow gotten the idea he got into doctoring when they came to this continent.  We learn several alternative names he's acquired over the centuries.  That he's carried a torch for Ari through all the intervening centuries, and the guilt of having taken part in mauling her.  That Sam the wolf is affectionate toward Mercy just as Samuel is.  That he knows how to use pack bonds without going through the modern rigmarole.  That Sam the wolf loves children at least as much as Samuel does.  There is doubtless more, but those are the first things that come to mind for me.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Morgaine0000 on April 01, 2010, 10:07:12 pm
Oh well, it's my job to be a bit of a spoilsport, I guess.

I was disappointed with Silver Borne. To me Samuel's storyline was a complete washout. I felt like Patty gave us a great build up and it all came to nothing. Samuel is my absolute favorite character of Patty's and I was hoping to learn so much more about him, and in my opinion, we didn't because he spent most of the book in wolf form and therefore was completely non verbal until the end. I feel like I learned more about Adam in Silver Borne than I did about Sam. I wanted a little more than that small glimpse into Samuel's relationship with Charles. I think the part when Mercy was talking to Charles on the phone about Samuel was my favorite of the book, because we got to see how much Samuel means to his brother in that little bitty piece of text. It made me tear up.

 I hate to say this, but wasn't feeling Sam/Ariana's old but new relationship. Ariana left me a bit cold. I'm sure that once she's fleshed out more, I'll like her better.



I was happy with the scenes with Sam parts in the early part of the book, but I wasn't feeling the relationship with Ariana either.  It seemed like she came out of no where and her only purpose was to be the love interest that saves Samuel.   The end seemed really rushed.
I really loved the parts with Ben though.  And I think Paul is almost too stupid to live.  If he had managed to kill an _injured_ Adam, I  don't think that the  Marrok would ever be a problem.  Because he would have been dead before the situation ever got to Bran.    I can't conceive that Darryl  (or Warren) wouldn't have immediately challenged and killed him (and he would have been injured already by Adam, for sure).    After all, he was the one who started the precedent of challenging injured wolves.  Turnabout and all.   I liked how brave Mary Jo was, when she was redeeming herself and I like that Adam let her do it.  
I think that Auriele took Mercy's advice and sucked it up, in the last book.  Plus, I think that she and Darryl seem very loyal to Adam and wouldn't try to cause problems, even if they detested Mercy.  Because, that kind of thing would only get Adam hurt and damage the pack.  


On an unrelated note, do we really need to use spoiler tagging in a thread that is already labeled spoiler?  It is redundant and makes things really hard to read for some of us.  If people don't want to be spoiled they won't click on the thread, in the first place.

*Spoiler tags discontinued 4/4/10
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Bran_FTW on April 01, 2010, 10:43:29 pm
Ok so here it goes. I finished the book yesterday at about 5 AM, so I had to rest a little bit before I gave my two cents. And bare with me if I miss some things, I haven't even started re-reading. O)

I wouldn't say that Samuel instantly fell for Ariana, when he saw her at the shop, or that he was IN love with her even after the whole month they spent together. To me it was more like Samuel was ashamed of how he behaved(not that he had any control over himself) when they first met, I'm not saying that it might not evolve to something more, which, it highly likely will, just saying that at that point in the book Samuel was not IN love with her.

I can't believe no one else has mentioned anything about all of Samuel's names!! I mean, those are the kind of name you would associate with Charles! makes you wonder if our "Easy-going" Sam, had once been Bran's enforcer or if he got those same while he was under the control of the witch.

Liked the book a lot, though, for the most part I rushed through it.

One las thing I'm just going by the user names, but I think I might be the only guy in the forum ;D and I gotta say that I don't mind some "intimacy" in the books I read, gotta say that what happened at Warren's(or was it Kyle's?) was a little too much for me :-[ LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 01, 2010, 10:56:18 pm
Gryphon is decidedly male, you can find a photo of him on one of the photo threads, and Lord_Raken is male.  The board average is between 6 & 7 women to one male board member signed up.  The number of posting males is much lower.  I expected Rob the bear, with his little dash of uncolored hair in his mustache to be at the signing last Tuesday.  There are half a dozen or so other regular or semi-regular posting men of various ages on Hurog.

Also, if you read back on the thread, I, in fact, did mention the several versions of Samuel's name that were referred to.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 01, 2010, 11:11:43 pm
Morgaine0000,

We're only using spoiler tags for the first little bit of the book release to give members the opportunity to read the book. We'll untag them after that. It's not for those who jump in the thread to discuss but those check recent posts so that they're blocked.

Thanks, Elle
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 02, 2010, 04:45:41 am
I'm sorry, I have to disagree with everyone who thinks the ending was rushed. I just didn't get that feeling at all. There were a lot of loose ends tied up and the story felt complete at the end. I felt like a contented cat when it I was done.  :P

We learned a fair amount about Samuel's past.  That - for instance - Bran and he were in a pack together in "the old country" with Bran as Alpha, long and long ago.  And that Samuel was a healer even then, which we didn't know; I'd somehow gotten the idea he got into doctoring when they came to this continent.  We learn several alternative names he's acquired over the centuries.  That he's carried a torch for Ari through all the intervening centuries, and the guilt of having taken part in mauling her.  That Sam the wolf is affectionate toward Mercy just as Samuel is.  That he knows how to use pack bonds without going through the modern rigmarole.  That Sam the wolf loves children at least as much as Samuel does.  There is doubtless more, but those are the first things that come to mind for me.

I agree with Patti, we did learn quite a bit about Sam/Samuel. With every thing that Patti pointed out above, I feel like I know Samuel better. Meeting Sam the Wolf was the highlight of this book, imo. He is extremely intelligent and the fact that he could speak English and Welsh was quite impressive.

We may not have had as much of Charles and Samuel's relationship as some might have wanted but the glimpse we did see was tender and pure brotherly love. We may get to see more of their relationship in later books or even in the next A&O book.  :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 02, 2010, 05:09:54 am
I'm just going by the user names, but I think I might be the only guy in the forum ;D and I gotta say that I don't mind some "intimacy" in the books I read, gotta say that what happened at Warren's(or was it Kyle's?) was a little too much for me

It was just the right amount for me, but I think it's probably safe to say that Patty's not going to go all Lora Leigh or Keri Arthur on us.  ;) (Thank goodness!  That would so not be in keeping with the books to-date or the characters.)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolfluver121 on April 02, 2010, 06:25:26 am
Oh well, it's my job to be a bit of a spoilsport, I guess.

I was disappointed with Silver Borne. To me Samuel's storyline was a complete washout. I felt like Patty gave us a great build up and it all came to nothing. Samuel is my absolute favorite character of Patty's and I was hoping to learn so much more about him, and in my opinion, we didn't because he spent most of the book in wolf form and therefore was completely non verbal until the end. I feel like I learned more about Adam in Silver Borne than I did about Sam. I wanted a little more than that small glimpse into Samuel's relationship with Charles. I think the part when Mercy was talking to Charles on the phone about Samuel was my favorite of the book, because we got to see how much Samuel means to his brother in that little bitty piece of text. It made me tear up.

 I hate to say this, but wasn't feeling Sam/Ariana's old but new relationship. Ariana left me a bit cold. I'm sure that once she's fleshed out more, I'll like her better.



I'm glad I'm not the only Sam/Samuel fan. This is what I meant in my earlier post about being 'disappointed'. By Iron Kissed, I was like 'yes,yes, more Sam in the next books!'. Got a little let down with Bone Crossed, but then it was promised that Silver Borne was going to essentially be a Sam book, so I held out.  Not to say that I didn't like Silver Borne, I did...I just felt that Sam/Samuel really didn't get the 'screen-time'(lack of a better word) as I was hoping. And like 'littlebittisami' said, I wasn't feeling the Silver/Sam relationship. But I think that was because the book was just too short. I mean, Patti Briggs couldn't really make an 800 page book trying to please all us Sam fans by bringing closure. I'm sure there will be some more Sam/Silver relationship-building in the next book. I just don't want to have to wait a year for it.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 02, 2010, 06:45:52 am
You have to keep in mind that this series is told from Mercy's point-of-view. She can only comment on things she knows or are said. There would be more insight into other characters if it were told in third person. And it is kind of hard to get more info from a wolf who can't speak... And she was in Elphame for two months. Patty might have said it was Sam's book but you have to keep in mind it is still Mercy's story.

Like Patti said, we did learn a lot of things about Sam.  :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 02, 2010, 06:54:46 am
So true Letitia.  :)

But, I thought she was only in Elphame for one month?  :-\
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 02, 2010, 06:58:07 am
I have slept since then...  :-\ It's either one or two.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 02, 2010, 07:04:15 am
Guys Mod note here: Any references to plot points in Silver Borne has to be tagged with the black bars of doom. I know its a pain but this is to block any unintentional spoiling for people who haven't read SB when they check new topics/replies feature.
This rule will be removed from the 12th of April - Thanks!

And about that I think Mercy spent a day or so in Elphame but outside a month passed.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 02, 2010, 07:08:10 am
Eeek! Sorry, I forgot to add the spoilers.  :-\

And yes, that's what I remembered too Has.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 02, 2010, 07:18:23 am
No worries - just be careful :D I forget too :P
I think during that month - we missed a lot of development/events and although we caught glimpses from Bran and Mercy's convo and at the end. Adam's grief/going half crazed because of Mercy going missing and the pack realising that she was important to him probably helped with their acceptance of her, especially with the fact that Henry's machinations caused more harm to a good pack. Samuel's growing relationship with Ari too and Gabriel's estrangement with his mother. Wish we can haz a short seeing this.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 02, 2010, 07:25:28 am
More could be revealed about that missing time in the next book... Though a short story in an anthology would be wonderful! Especially since it would have to be told from another POV. Sam's would be great, Adam would be interesting too.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 02, 2010, 07:26:52 am
Ooh, a short story would be nice and from Sam's POV...even better.  :)

Also, by the satisfied look Aurielle and Darryl gave Mercy when they dropped off their things at Warren's was evidence that they (and the pack) realized how important Mercy is to Adam because she helps keep his wolf in check and the pack strong. I wonder why that look made Mercy uncomfortable. I wonder if they could feel their intimacy through the pack bonds. If that is the case, I guess that would embarass me some too.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolfluver121 on April 02, 2010, 07:31:56 am
You have to keep in mind that this series is told from Mercy's point-of-view. She can only comment on things she knows or are said. There would be more insight into other characters if it were told in third person. And it is kind of hard to get more info from a wolf who can't speak... And she was in Elphame for two months. Patty might have said it was Sam's book but you have to keep in mind it is still Mercy's story.

Like Patti said, we did learn a lot of things about Sam.  :)



Yeah, I know that it's told from Mercy's pov, just...as a Sam fan, it was a let down that I didn't really the get history of him that I wanted. But I suppose there are other books, so I'll just wait for them.

An anthology would be AWESOME!!!! It'd be cool if we could get more of the 'off-screen' characters. Like Kyle, Warren, Ben, Zee, and Tad. I feel like we can never have enough of them! Especially Ben  :-LOVE , he's becoming a new favorite. Though I am still a devoted Samuel and Bran fan!  :D Maybe Charles too... I love those Cornick boys!  :-LOVE
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 02, 2010, 07:55:48 am
Ooh, a short story would be nice and from Sam's POV...even better.  :)

Also, by the satisfied look Aurielle and Darryl gave Mercy when they dropped off their things at Warren's was evidence that they (and the pack) realized how important Mercy is to Adam because she helps keep his wolf in check and the pack strong. I wonder why that look made Mercy uncomfortable. I wonder if they could feel their intimacy through the pack bonds. If that is the case, I guess that would embarass me some too. 

Exactly!!!! I wonder if they did sense the same thing too. And isn't it interesting that Aurielle was so against Mercy in BC yet now it looks like she's one of her strongest supporters.  
Also - I think Adam's wolf and Mercy is going to be a plot point in the future. Did anyone feel that Adam had issues about his wolf. Not in the sense where they in conflict but like he couldnt fully accpet him. Maybe that is why he's so short tempered. That scene where he says to Mercy about not trusting to be with Jesse if his wolf lost control and if it happened to him to get Bran and that dream in the end where Mercy met up with his wolf. I think Mercy senses and understand instinctively about werewolves - like when she knew about Sam/Samuel but I also think she seems to have bonded too with Adam's wolf and I think that will come up where he will have to face up to that.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: skipaliforus on April 02, 2010, 08:07:06 am
Has,

That would be very interesting, you are insightful my friend  8)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 02, 2010, 08:20:04 am
Could the scene where Mercy met up with Adam's wolf in the snow be a part of the bonding between them?
I feel like Mercy has an Omega effect on Adam and his wolf.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 02, 2010, 08:37:49 am
I agree!!! It really felt like that and I think with all the Machiavellian machinations by Henry, Mary-Jo and Paul and their own fears about their relationship I think his wolf didnt have a chance to fully establish a bond and it explains why it kept shortening out so much due to other events and with the way they linked their mate-bond. But like Ari said she does calm Adam's wolf - this was shown in Moon Called when she helped him out of the chains. I think in many ways Adam sees his wolf as something to be feared and I hope he will realise and come to see that his wolf can be calm and content.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 02, 2010, 08:54:08 am
I agree with everything you just said. It was all in my head and you just made it more clear to me.  :D

Like you said, I think this will be a plot point in the future. I don't see how it couldn't. I feel like this book is leading up to Mercy and Adam's wolf bonding. With Adam feeling like a freak, not being able to accept his wolf, Mercy meeting Adam's wolf in the snow, the pack bonds, etc... perhaps the next book. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: mystify on April 02, 2010, 09:17:58 am
I should be working! Instead, I'm reading this thread.

Read the entire book last night and loved it. All of your thoughts are so interesting. I thought the ending was great. It's not the end of the series so while some stuff was wrapped up, we still have another couple books (isn't it 7 at least?) to get to see what happens with Samuel and all of the characters, really.

Honestly, this book really felt to me like I was visiting with old friends. It was so great to see Ben, Warren, Kyle, Jesse, etc,  and even a bit of Tony. :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 02, 2010, 09:21:16 am
Very good insights!

Adam has definitely got issues with his wolf. And I think most of them are unfounded. His wolf has accepted Mercy as his mate, and Jesse is both his and the wolf's flesh and blood, I don't see that his wolf would hurt either of them. Mercy's role in his life is definitely an important one and I look forward to seeing them help each other through their issues. Since they conquered quite a few of her's in this book, it would be nice to see them tackle his in the next.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 02, 2010, 11:22:00 am
One thing about Adam I didn't like:
I didn't like having Mercy tell Adam that he hates his wolf...hates being a werewolf.  If Adam hadn't been a wolf for close to 40 years, I'd feel differently.  If he were a new wolf, I mean.  But 40 years is enough time to come to terms with who and what you are.  I do know that being a wolf has cost him -- Christy's miscarriages, for one thing -- and that being a wolf can be a hard existence, and probably doubly-so for Adam, as Alpha.  But I just hate to think of Adam hating any part of who he is, especially if it's a part he can't change.  It's a bit too Richard Zeman for my taste.  Luckily, though, Adam -- unlike Richard -- is not the type to whine or sulk or mope or self-flagellate.  And I do think that now that he and Mercy are together and grooving, he may learn to appreciate and value his wolf.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 02, 2010, 11:33:13 am
One thing about Adam I didn't like:
I didn't like having Mercy tell Adam that he hates his wolf...hates being a werewolf.  If Adam hadn't been a wolf for close to 40 years, I'd feel differently.  If he were a new wolf, I mean.  But 40 years is enough time to come to terms with who and what you are.  I do know that being a wolf has cost him -- Christy's miscarriages, for one thing -- and that being a wolf can be a hard existence, and probably doubly-so for Adam, as Alpha.  But I just hate to think of Adam hating any part of who he is, especially if it's a part he can't change.  It's a bit too Richard Zeman for my taste.  Luckily, though, Adam -- unlike Richard -- is not the type to whine or sulk or mope or self-flagellate.  And I do think that now that he and Mercy are together and grooving, he may learn to appreciate and value his wolf.

I think the main reason he's that way is due to his forced change. Its so much like a rape and I think he still has issues and hangups and it was pretty telling when Mercy shared his flashback he thought it was one of his and I suspect from his change. But I can understand why he's like that though, and I dont think he hates his wolf but I dont think he likes the loss of control and dual personality that goes with it. And I agree and glad he doesnt angst about it and I think he can appreciate the positive elements of being a werewolf but liking it and accepting is another thing. I also think his ex may have used this against him and I bet she knew it hurt him to do so which is part of the reason why he's so careful with Mercy because he knows she's got issues with wolf dominance.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: mattysgurl4life on April 02, 2010, 11:35:13 am
I loved this book like the whole series it did not disappoint me.  I love seeing Mercy's transition she has grown up alot in this series and opened up alot in order to see the real her.  It is great i can't wait till the next one. I have not found one book yet written by Patiricia Briggs i haven't liked, i love her writing style keep it up please. And thanks for all the great reads and those yet to come.  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: bsiggy on April 02, 2010, 01:43:55 pm
When Mercy pulled out the gun and shot Henry I almost fell out of my chair laughing.  It was just so...Mercy and I absolutly loved it.  I also liked that she started introducing Charles and Anna more.  I can't wait for a cross over book and hope it will be soon.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: littlebittysami on April 02, 2010, 05:37:08 pm
Sorry, for being so late. Full time job demands my attention.

I'm sorry, Patti. I have to disagree. I'm seriously not trying to be a Debbie Downer here. I enjoyed "Silver Borne" for the most part, but i was also disappointed because I felt that we didn't get any real closure when it came to Samuel.

That - for instance - Bran and he were in a pack together in "the old country" with Bran as Alpha, long and long ago.  I've always thought that Samuel and Bran were pack with Bran as the alpha, from the beginning as per what I read in "Cry Wolf". This wasn't a revelation to me.

Nor was Sam the wolf being completely docile around Sylvia's children. Samuel the man adores children, and he's lived more than 1000 years, that is bound to rub off on the wolf side of his personality in my opinion. The same goes for being able to create pack bonds without actually using blood. Samuel/Sam has been around long enough to remember how to do things without blood and maybe with his own innate magical abilities. Maybe the blood ties/pack bonding had to happen because some of the werewolves magic isn't as potent as it once was?

As for being a healer, I always thought that was part of his character because he'd lost several mates and children to disease, such as cholera. I think that was brought up in "Moon Called." Did Patty explicitly say that the reason for Samuel becoming a doctor was because of Ariana's injuries and his own guilt for being a part of the reason she was hurt and is so traumatized when it comes to werewolves?I don't follow the chat, so I wouldn't know.

We learn several alternative names he's acquired over the centuries.  That he's carried a torch for Ari through all the intervening centuries, and the guilt of having taken part in mauling her I'll give point here. I was also impressed by Sam being able to hold off from making the full transformation into the wolf until Mercy got him out of the hospital. I do find the centuries long torch carrying thing to be a bit cheesy. Sorry.

As for Sam the wolf being being as affectionate to Mercy as Samuel is, I'm pretty sure that was a gimme, considering how the wolf pined for Mercy after Bran sent her to her mom.
However, I know Patty is a talented writer, and she probably will do more with Ariana in the next books. But the Mercy doing the Rip van Winkle in Elphame for a month annoyed me for some reason. I know it was foreshadowed earlier in the book, but couldn't Sam have used his pack bond with Mercy to find her sooner? Adam's mate bond was fried, but Sam should have been able to find her given that his wolf was able to tap into her strength earlier.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 02, 2010, 06:56:40 pm
Well, we each have our own opinions and impressions.  Mine were different, and I feel I got more from it than you did.  Maybe the next volume will suit you better.  Or maybe not.  It's what the characters reveal to Patty, and sometimes it's different from what we'd like to see.  Heaven knows, short of an audience of one, there is no way to please all the readers, is there?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: littlebittysami on April 02, 2010, 07:38:12 pm
This is true, Patti. We can agree to disagree. :)

 I also think that while every author loves to get praises for their work form their audience, they also like to get a little critique every now and then. It helps us be better writers, and Patty is definitely very good. I've read so many bad popular novels that Silver Borne, even in with my issues with it and the feeling of certain things happening out of the such blue such as when did Mercy and Anna meet and why didn't we get to see it?, or even Ariana herself  it is is still a much better story involving paranormal critters than most anything else I've read in the genre.  

I am certainly looking forward to the next book as well as the next Alpha and Omega book. I'm not giving in yet.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 02, 2010, 07:38:42 pm
*sniff*

These black bars are killing me.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Avarel on April 02, 2010, 07:47:03 pm
when did Mercy and Anna meet and why didn't we get to see it?

They don't necessarily need to meet for Mercy to know about Anna
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 02, 2010, 07:58:02 pm
when did Mercy and Anna meet and why didn't we get to see it?

They don't necessarily need to meet for Mercy to know about Anna
But Mercy did say she'd met Anna, and hadn't had the impulse to roll over and let her belly be rubbed that most werewolves have.

LBS, I enjoy some debate, it helps clarify things, and constructive criticism is a must for writers.  Have you seen the discussion CheeseBK has started in the challenge discussion thread about it?

It's an interesting issue.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: cathgarc on April 02, 2010, 08:59:42 pm
question:

Remember how at the end of Bone Crossed Mercy finds a tree next to her trailer and it turns out to be the the fae she helped that Blackwood had captured. Is that oak tree the same to the one that Bran mentions at the end of Silver Borne when Mecy is looking at the remains of her burned down trailer?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 02, 2010, 09:05:53 pm
We're not sure at all that the tree is the fae; it may be just a gift from him.  But, that area being what it is, it is not likely that it would be another oak tree.  They are nothing like common there, I don't think.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 02, 2010, 09:06:07 pm
Hi cathgarc,

It is the same tree but it's not the fae, it's just a tree. We asked Patty about it a while ago and she gave us this answer:

Dear Elle,
As far as Mercy (and I) know, it is just a tree -- for all that it just appeared there <grin>.  It is a gift (no Donnell didn't die -- the fae are very, very tough).  I don't know if it will follow her -- it is no relation of Donnell's.   At this moment I have no further plans for it -- but that's what I said about the walking stick too . . .
Hugs,
Patty
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Morgaine0000 on April 02, 2010, 09:23:40 pm

I thought that Ariana not being able to find Mercy was a bit of a weak point. The talent was available when it was needed for the plot, and then not available when it would have made things too easy.  It seems like Bran could have forced Adam to be nonthreatening long enough for her to touch him.  Especially since Adam would have wanted to cooperate.    Also, Mercy has connections with both Sam and Bran that have to at least be as strong as Gabriel's connection to Jesse.

If nothing else, it seems like she could have used Medea  :D  Mercy was more concerned about her than anything that was burnt up in her house.

Telling Sam's story might work better in a Charles & Anna book, because those books aren't from their point of view.  I think the Mercy books must be a bit challenging to write because the readers can only know what Mercy knows.  


I would so love to see a Bran and Samuel book that takes place long ago.   Or maybe even when they came to America and Charles is born.    It seems like you don't really see many books that do a really positive father/son relationship; and I find Bran's relationship with his sons really interesting.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on April 02, 2010, 09:45:51 pm


If nothing else, it seems like she could have used Medea  :D  


Yeah, that's what I thought too. LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 02, 2010, 10:00:18 pm
Talyn mentioned that question to me too.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Asgen on April 02, 2010, 10:24:02 pm
A few comments about the tree, as it seems to be relevent in the flow of the discussion at this point in time.  I live in the area and visit Finley on a regular basis.  That said, i can attest that, yes, oak trees do grow out here, and it's close enough to water that it won't shrivel up and turn into kindling any time soon.  Even with our low average rainfall.

Some interesting implications for Bran's mate, Leah?, if the precedents Adam's pack seems to be throwing out go into effect on a wide scale.  She wouldn't be able to frivolously throw the weight of being Bran's mate around as often as it seems she is want to do.  Mercy doesn't do that, when she gives orders they're followed for what i sense to be that she doesn't give them often enough that when she does, you listen.  It almost seems that if she would be acting outside of pack hierarchy, she'd need to use her own dominance to do it.  I don't know, it gets a little murky when you go into this area, but i seem to read that there aren't too many people really impressed with her.

On another topic, i think Mercy may be learning.  I don't recall her carrying anything meaner than the stick in any of the last few books and more relying on her martial training.  Now, she carries a sidearm.  With the fire, i don't know if we'll see much of the .444 Marlin anymore.  I'm going to miss the heavy artillery.  If you're going to give her a shiny new gun, look into the 10mm.  It's just the original case length for the .40 S&W anyway, and look how popular that is.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Morgaine0000 on April 03, 2010, 12:40:34 am

Some interesting implications for Bran's mate, Leah?, if the precedents Adam's pack seems to be throwing out go into effect on a wide scale.  She wouldn't be able to frivolously throw the weight of being Bran's mate around as often as it seems she is want to do.  Mercy doesn't do that, when she gives orders they're followed for what i sense to be that she doesn't give them often enough that when she does, you listen.  It almost seems that if she would be acting outside of pack hierarchy, she'd need to use her own dominance to do it.  I don't know, it gets a little murky when you go into this area, but i seem to read that there aren't too many people really impressed with her.



Females  having the rank of their spouse (even if it is lower) and unmated females being of the lowest rank has been described as tradition - nothing in the pack magic enforces it.  Ben could not question Mary Jo, even if she was lowest in the pack, because he was not more dominant than her.  But, when  a wolf's mate is of higher rank they can access their power.  So, even if women are ranked by their own dominance and willingness to fight- Leah will still be able to access Bran's power (as long as he allows it, anyway) to annoy people.   I think Anna noticed that she was using Bran's power when she visited Anna when she first moved to Montana.   Since magic-wise, it seems as if mates are one and can share their magic, it would be logical that a mated pair would take the rank of whoever was highest -as opposed who whoever is male.  I also wonder how much of the dominance fights are affected by magic and how much by strength/skill/not being already injured.  It will be really interesting to see where  this goes.  And, I'm really, really curious about what Honey's concern was.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 03, 2010, 05:06:37 am
when did Mercy and Anna meet and why didn't we get to see it?

They don't necessarily need to meet for Mercy to know about Anna
But Mercy did say she'd met Anna, and hadn't had the impulse to roll over and let her belly be rubbed that most werewolves have.

It's a good possibility that Mercy and Anna may meet in the next A&O books. The events that happen in the A&O books seem to be behind on the Mercy series. For example: the meeting in Seattle to talk about the Werewolves coming out but the wolves were already out (in the Mercy books) by the time Hunting Ground came out. Right? Am I wrong about that?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 03, 2010, 05:33:15 am
We may get that but I do know that Patty has said this several times - I think its in the FAQ too that she's reluctant to have a crossover with Anna and Mercy partly due to the timelines although I do think that is a good time for it to catch up especially with Charles travelling with Adam to smooth over the aftermath of Iron Kissed.

I thought that Ariana not being able to find Mercy was a bit of a weak point. The talent was available when it was needed for the plot, and then not available when it would have made things too easy.  It seems like Bran could have forced Adam to be nonthreatening long enough for her to touch him.  Especially since Adam would have wanted to cooperate.    Also, Mercy has connections with both Sam and Bran that have to at least be as strong as Gabriel's connection to Jesse.

If nothing else, it seems like she could have used Medea  :D  Mercy was more concerned about her than anything that was burnt up in her house.

Telling Sam's story might work better in a Charles & Anna book, because those books aren't from their point of view.  I think the Mercy books must be a bit challenging to write because the readers can only know what Mercy knows.   

I would so love to see a Bran and Samuel book that takes place long ago.   Or maybe even when they came to America and Charles is born.    It seems like you don't really see many books that do a really positive father/son relationship; and I find Bran's relationship with his sons really interesting.

Adam was half crazed and maybe they did try with Anna/Bran to calm him down but I think with the previous discussion we had about his wolf maybe they couldn't calm him down enough for Ari to help search for Mercy, and he can be pretty intense even when he is calm. And although she could have tried with Bran or Sam maybe the connection wasn't there or was strong enough or maybe Daphne used extra mojo to defend Elphame  from being tracked again?  They also could sense her in the pack bonds but they wasn't sure she was alive.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 03, 2010, 06:29:20 am
Thanks Has... *runs off to read the faq sheets*  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 03, 2010, 06:41:27 am
:D
The FAQ pages has a lot of good tidbits and comments about the books- it's def worth checking out but about the potential crossover of the A&O and Mercy series can be found here:

http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=224.0
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 03, 2010, 07:31:27 am
Well, that answers my speculation.  :) I guess by mentioning Anna and Mercy have met in SB, is a way to let the audience know since she has no plans of having a cross-over with the two characters.  I can understand why she wouldn't do it either. Works for me. :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 03, 2010, 08:18:23 am

If nothing else, it seems like she could have used Medea  :D  Mercy was more concerned about her than anything that was burnt up in her house.

But Medea being a cat... I don't know.  Plus, it seems like Medea has made herself as much Adam's and Samuel's as Mercy's... I would think that might mess with the connection.  I mean, Gabriel and Jesse have a mutual thing... If she had another guy in the wings, whatever Gabriel feels about her, I wonder if she would have been useful at all.

As for using Adam, with his mate missing I can see him being a bit of a firestorm.  Even though I'm sure on one level he understood that he needed to calm down to see if they could use him to find Mercy... he's frantic, the wolf is frantic, their mate-bond is broken and they can't tell if Mercy's alive or dead.  Yeah, he's not calming down on his own.  
Point #1:  With Bran in there... I don't have MC with me but isn't Adam fourth in rank of North American wolves?  So Bran might have to exert some power to get Adam calmed down, and I'd bet Ariana could sense that and it might set her off.  
Point #2: Alternatively, who's to say that Bran's forcing Adam to calm down wouldn't mess with the finding magic?  On a much grander scale than with the Gabriel/Jesse hypothesis above, in order to force Adam to do anything, Bran is claiming him as HIS wolf.  And who's going to argue with Bran, with Mercy not there to do it?
Point #3: (OK less a point than a question really) Page 339, Mercy admits she quit trying to reach Adam because she was afraid of having the pack bonds used against the wolves.  Not that having her actively looking for Adam is necessary, but could the decision to NOT look for him affect the magic?  This is purely curiosity, of course, because they would have had to try searching via Adam to find out whether he was a useful "lodestone," and they didn't.
Point #4: Would Sam let Ariana in with Adam, knowing how worked up Adam is and how that is likely to affect Ariana?  Even if Adam were to get himself in control enough that she would be OK, Sam knows how volatile wolves are, and a single thought could throw Adam out of control; which would in turn make Ariana panic.  Mercy once comments that Sam would protect her, by wrapping her up in cotton and keeping her safe from the world (I think in Iron Kissed).  Is that the kind of person who puts someone under his protection, in a potentially volatile situation?  


And a last, un-related note:  
I haven't seen anyone mention the lack of Stefan in this book.  Other than Mercy's one comment about the broken soldier, he's not even mentioned.  Not that he was needed for this story, but it seemed strange in retrospect to have him so completely absent.  Just something to consider.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 03, 2010, 10:49:36 am
im really surprised that no one has wondered this before. but who is more dominant, samual or charles?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: mystify on April 03, 2010, 11:15:45 am
Quote
And a last, un-related note:  
I haven't seen anyone mention the lack of Stefan in this book.  Other than Mercy's one comment about the broken soldier, he's not even mentioned.  Not that he was needed for this story, but it seemed strange in retrospect to have him so completely absent.  Just something to consider.



While I do like to see Stefan and I hope we see more of him next time, I didn't miss him in this book. And if you think about it, except for the very end, this book takes place in a matter of days.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ElefiNecol on April 03, 2010, 11:19:06 am
im really surprised that no one has wondered this before. but who is more dominant, samual or charles?

Check the FAQ section  here (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3076.0) for a previous post from Patty about their dominance. 

Here is the direct link to the thread: http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2779.0
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: mdauben on April 03, 2010, 12:15:14 pm
Just finished reading the new book this afternoon, and overall I was very pleased!  I admit to being a bit disappointed with the previous book, but this one was a definete winner.  This was in part becase it seemed to me that in the last book, Mercy was almost an observer throughout the story, just following along without a huge impact on the course of events.  Here, on the other hand she  is back to taking an active part in what is happening and taking control of more than one of the situations in the book including taking charge of the issues with the pack while Adam was out of commission.  

Pardon me if I respond to more than one posts all at once here, but I am playing catch up with the discussion!

I mean, it was all kind of sudden, I guess. He's had this 15 year(or so) thing for Mercy. And that's just instantly gone, and then Silver appears. I guess I feel sort of mother hen-ish. We barely know this Silver, and suddenly Samuel's in love with her? I know that they met in the WAY past, but I guess I feel like we really didn't get any foreshadowing at all about Silver, or Samuel's connection with her.
I agree with this to an extent.  Silver's appearance and her influence on Samual's "recovery" did seem somewhat sudden.  A bit more forshadowing of Samuel being haunted by the memory of a mysterious "ex" in previous books might have gone a long way towards easing her entry into the storyline at this point.  On the other hand, I don't agree that he instantly switched from Mercy to Silver.  I would argue that Samuel started the series with romantic feelings for Mercy (or at least the desire for a romantic relationship with her) but I think that has been morphing into his current "pack feelings" for a while as her interest in Adam developed and became more clear.  I think by the begining of this book any romantic interest he may have had in Mercy was already pretty much gone.

One las thing I'm just going by the user names, but I think I might be the only guy in the forum ;D and I gotta say that I don't mind some "intimacy" in the books I read, gotta say that what happened at Warren's(or was it Kyle's?) was a little too much for me :-[ LOL
No, not the only one on the forum, although my own posting tends to be cyclic, ramping up when I read a new books and falling off inbetween releases.   ;D

Regarding your comment as a male reader I normally don't have a problem "connecting" with a female character as there will generally be some aspect of her personality that I can identify with as something I admire or something I recognize in myself. I do tend to have a problem when sex scenes become too graphic, simply I suspect that as a hetero male I am not terribly interested in the sorts of things about a male body that a hetero female is, and a lot of the... "triggers" between men and women are different.  At times when reading a female author who gets a bit too detailed for me, I actually find myself starting to skim forward through the details of the encounter.  In the scene between Mercy and Adam, though, I personally found Patty's level of detail maintains a pretty good balance, with enough detail to draw you in without getting so graphic as to become pornographic or so detailed as to turn me off as a male reader.

One final comment of my own, regarding Mercy's cane, it is almost starting to take on the aspect of an all-purpose deus ex machina in the stories.  Last time, it turned out to be a spear of vampire slaying just when most needed, while this time it gives Bran the ability to break through the fae glamore just in time to prevent her from being enthralled by the fairly queen.  I guess its not too bad yet, I just hope this does not become a recurring even in every book!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Readsalot on April 03, 2010, 12:38:16 pm
Wow, gotta say I loved the book. The end was rushed, but I still loved it.

So far no one has metioned this little tibbit:  Couldn't female werewolves use the silver borne to carry babies to term? If this thing sucks all your magic out/prevents you from having any, then wouldn't this mean if a wolf "owned" the silver borne, they would not be able to change!

So what do you think about that? Oh and they should have used Mercy's mother to find her since Ari couldn't use Adam.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 03, 2010, 12:42:12 pm
Regarding the walking stick... doesn't the oakman say it was made by Lugh?  Somebody in the books (I don't remember who... maybe Uncle Mike?) says it follows her around because it likes her.  

So, a) to paraphrase the oakman, Lugh made spears.  So if the stick was made by him, I have no issue with its being used as one.  
and b) the stick wants to always find Mercy, although (to make my point because I imagine questions will follow about this one) because of its fae connections and the fickle nature of fairy gifts, Mercy doesn't see it as hers.  Anyway, the stick wants to find Mercy but the nature of the Elphame maybe made it difficult for it to actually get to her, so it (being a very old, magical thing... someone also mentions that old magic gets a mind of its own) does the next best thing.  It shows Bran how to get to her.  
c) when it helps her center herself when Mary Jo is messing with her mate bond... well, it's helping her find herself, right?  

So basically, it hasn't done anything that I find to be working in the realm of "fix-all item."  If it starts doing something that I really can't connect to its established powers (ie, if it starts changing shape to fit Mercy's need, or casting spells) then I'll start to worry.  So far it seems it finds Mercy, improves sheep fertility (wonder whether there would be population explosion of humans near the seethe if a vampire held it?), and it can, if need be, stab things.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: skipaliforus on April 03, 2010, 01:10:10 pm
The walking stick:I think it is basically like Bran said "when I picked it up- suddenly all my efforts bore fruit at last,".

I think THAT is its magic, to make your efforts bare fruit. Its stated that old magic items will grow in power and purpose within the limits of their creation.

Yes, that would make it a very powerful item to have around (and it is hinted that it is a very powerful thing when uncle Mike tells Mercy to do "Whatever it will let you do").
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: mdauben on April 04, 2010, 04:32:01 am
 
So basically, it hasn't done anything that I find to be working in the realm of "fix-all item."  If it starts doing something that I really can't connect to its established powers (ie, if it starts changing shape to fit Mercy's need, or casting spells) then I'll start to worry.  So far it seems it finds Mercy, improves sheep fertility (wonder whether there would be population explosion of humans near the seethe if a vampire held it?), and it can, if need be, stab things.
Its not a huge issue for me, but I have to disagree.  Doubtless there are ways to justify just about anything that the walking stick could do, through some sort of convoluted logic but I think the reasons put forth to justify why the stick was able to do what it has done are pretty weak.   It has to date displayed two powers (vampire slaying and glamore breaking) that were totally unrelated to its original purpose, totally new in each case, and happened suddenly at just the point in the story when Mercy needed it.  That's pretty much the definition of deus ex machina.

Do that once, I can accept it.  Do it twice, I start to have my doubts.  If it was to happen a third time...   9)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 04, 2010, 06:29:04 am
Re the walking stick As far as vampire slaying is concerned, I don't see that as a power. Patty has established that her vampires can be slayed with a wooden stake. The walking stick is made of wood, so why wouldn't it kill a vampire if sufficient force was used?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 04, 2010, 07:57:40 am
Just finished reading it!!!!

LOVED ITTTT!!!!!!!!

Fantastic, fantastic! No picks yet....I still have to think about it.  ;D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2010, 09:37:52 am
I'd agree with charmed that the walking stick didn't need to do anything special to act as a spear/stake.  It might or might not have reconfigured slightly so it was more pointed, Mercy wasn't sure herself.  What it has done, on a couple of occasions in this book, has been boost Mercy's resistance to outside magic, or assist others to contact her.  And those are like, oh, a knife or fire.  Depending on how they are used, they can harm or help.  People were trying to harm her through messing with the pack bond, forcing thoughts into her head.  The stick helped her resist that.  Bran was trying to find her, and it assisted with that.  Why did it take a month before it did so?  That, we'll likely never know.  My guess would be that, it being both tree based, earth based(silver), and magical, possibly made or 'living' some period of it's existence Underhill, it doesn't perceive time the same way we linear folk do.  And, as Mercy thought early in the book, those who try too hard to understand magic can drive themselves mad.  

And, while that doesn't have anything to do with it's best known power, increasing sheep fertility, so what?  Consider the fairy cup.  Healing.  Truth.  Forcing obedience.  Not exactly logically matched to each other either, are they?  It may well be a similar matter of who holds it, and why, that tells what it does for that person.  

Or the Silver Borne.  Intended purpose was to take the magic from one fae & give it to another.  Unfinished, it does the first, but not the latter.  Now...what happens to all that magic it's sucking down?  Can the thing hold an infinite amount indefinitely, or will it explode, melt, or something to that effect?  Or is it disposing of the magic somehow?  Does it have to do the same kind of thing the being it's sucking from would do (metalworking, forcing obedience of beasts, growing plants, etc., or can it be used for any purpose the recipient is capable of shaping it to?  Or does it dissipate, like steam?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: littlebittysami on April 04, 2010, 12:21:16 pm
Well, let's get to the part everyone has thoughts on RE: the sex.
Personally I wasn't too bothered by the scene at the end. However, my husband was. He's not fond of sex scenes and even while it was certainly not as graphic as anything written by LKH or others, he did say he was uncomfortable with it. I've noticed that many of those here that have stated that they are male also seem to be a bit uncomfortable with the scene. Maybe it's a guy thing.

As long as Patty doesn't suddenly get the urge to write extremely graphic fanfic style porn with descriptions of the colors, size and shape of the character's genitalia or the sex becomes the focus of the books, I'll be fine with Adam and Mercy shagging every once in a while. Sex is natural, even though it ain't pretty.

Moving on, I don't think Mercy is going to move in with Adam. There, I said it. On the way to Warren's, Mercy noticed that the other apartment/half of the house in his duplex has a "For Rent" sign. I think she will move there, at least temporarily. Mercy is deeply independent and has stated over and over that Adam's house is far too crowded for her what with all the pack there at all hours. I don't know if Samuel will go with her, nor do I think he will be the one renting the place out solo, unless the revelation nurse Jody had seemed to have gotten when Adam was severely burned in the house fire causes Samuel to lose his job. I can see this happening because Mercy's world doesn't seem ready for a werewolf doctor. Jody seemed to like "Doc Cornick" and might just keep her mouth shut for all I know.

By the way, I was vastly amused at both Jody and Jesse calling Samuel "Doc". I heard it in my head like they adopted Brooklynese accents and chewing on carrots at the times they spoke to him.
Yes, I do watch too much Bugs Bunny.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Addicted Gamer on April 04, 2010, 01:56:42 pm
Moving on, I don't think Mercy is going to move in with Adam.There, I said it. On the way to Warren's, Mercy noticed that the other apartment/half of the house in his duplex has a "For Rent" sign. I think she will move there, at least temporarily. Mercy is deeply independent and has stated over and over that Adam's house is far too crowded for her what with all the pack there at all hours. I don't know if Samuel will go with her, nor do I think he will be the one renting the place out solo, unless the revelation nurse Jody had seemed to have gotten when Adam was severely burned in the house fire causes Samuel to lose his job. I can see this happening because Mercy's world doesn't seem ready for a werewolf doctor. Jody seemed to like "Doc Cornick" and might just keep her mouth shut for all I know.

It could happen, but it's not a good idea. Remember that the trailer got trashed in Blood Bound and was burned by fae arsonists in Silver Borne.
Those are not good records of keeping a residence whole, hale and hearty. She got lucky that Marsilia's seethe paid for the damages in Blood Bound, but with the trailer exploding....nothing to be fixed, unless she pulled some strings and rebuild it....maybe...still those damages are really not worth the extra spending of money!

As for the walking stick it was also mentioned that it wanted to be with Mercy because the stick knows that Mercy is helping out in some ways, and to me it felt like unfinished business. The stick likes Mercy and is always there when she most needs it.
Furthermore I disagree with it being a deus-ex machina thingy because the stick was made by one of the fae. Fae made objects are being coveted as they hold magic. Also the stick is old and has now a mind of its own.
We can look at it this way. The stick boosted the fertility of the sheep that the farmer raised. Now Mercy does not raise sheep, she does however solve problems. So what does the stick do? The stick will do it utmost to boost the power of the person that is helping Mercy. Or it helps her  by boosting her magic resistance. That's my take on the walking stick.

Also it took a month in the outside world, but seconds inside Elphame and I think that the stick knew that, which was why it waited for a month to pass before it showed up right next to Bran.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 04, 2010, 02:35:26 pm
Before I read Silver Borne, I was convinced that Mercy would not move in with Adam anytime soon. But after seeing the development of their relationship and the talk of marriage. I disagree. I think Mercy will move in with Adam. She felt comfort when she wrapped the pack bonds around her after Bran helped her learn how they work. I got the impression that she is adjusting to being a prat of the pack and is willing to share her space with them coming in and out of Adam's place. Plus, she made the comment about buying a new trailer for Gabrielle to live in.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Jax on April 04, 2010, 03:07:55 pm
AG - I hadn't thought of the walking stick not reacting due to the time difference. It's a good point.

As for Mercy moving in - Adam seemed pretty determined at the beginning that she would move in soon, and while Mercy wanted to give the pack more time to adjust, she didn't seem all that against it, independent or not. She loves Adam, and is starting to realize that he loves her just as she is. It's finally starting to hit home that he ENJOYS her independence. He doesn't WANT a woman like his ex. He wants someone who isn't going to 'love' him for what he can do for them. Not only did we see that in the flashback, he outright states on more than one occasion.

I don't see her not moving in due to her independence issues. She might wait a bit to help play matchmaker for Samuel and Ariana, but I don't see that being an obstacle for long. She may take up the place next to Warren, with Samuel, and do the 'proper' thing by waiting until she and Adam are married to move in. He did say that she will marry him. I sort of got the idea that he meant before she moved in. I think that Adam's gotten to be too important, too much of a comfort, even with her concerns about the bonds, for her to not want to have him with her when ever she can.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 04, 2010, 04:27:23 pm
Mercy may move in with Adam (and I am on the side of, Mercy's moving in with Adam.  They've worked through some of the pack issues, she has no house, and she agreed to the one month limit... in the real world its been a month.)  BUT Samuel no longer has a home in the Tri-Cities.  Will he move back to Montana?  I can't see him moving back to his father's pack quite yet, with Ariana... or maybe I just want him to stay around.  Maybe Sam will move in next to Warren, at least for a while. Yes, Warren's a werewolf, but I believe that in Moon Called it was mentioned that most of the pack didn't even know where Warren lived... and even though yes, they know where he lives now, I can't exactly see it being a big werewolf hang-out.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2010, 04:35:33 pm
That sounds like a good possibility, Kyria.  While Warren is fairly dominant, he doesn't seem to feel the need to push it around the top wolves in Adam's pack, so the two of them could probably be neighbors without too much werewolf friction.  And the combination of their odd shifts for work, and Warren spending most of his time off with Kyle means that there would be that much less contact between them.  And now that we assume Samuel is courting Ari, he wouldn't be home that much either.

On a different note, I wonder if anyone has bought some clothes for Mercy.  Did anyone even tell Margi that she was missing for that month?

I think that if Christy tries to make trouble, Bran, Anna, Charles, Warren, and Kyle are enough to take care of her!  It might make an interesting short story, rather than having it in one of the next two Mercy books.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 04, 2010, 04:56:37 pm
Hello Everyone,  it's been over year since I've been here. Life has had be bogged down a bit.  I lost my mother back in Septemeber and thankfully now, I'm getting back on track.  I don't really have anything to add. Ya'll all do such a great job analyzing everything. And putting all your thoughts to paper so well.  I just wanted to say.  I LOVE THIS BOOK.  I love both the Mercy and The A&O books.  I was expecting more of a background story on Samuel only because I can never get enough of Samuel, or Adam, or Ben or Warren or Charles ( you get the idea) I have to say that I think this book did a great job of reeling me in.....I had such anxiety over Samuel's condition and what might happen to him.  I don't know why I"m so invested in his character.  Can I just say, I really don't like Paul very much!!!! When he challenged Adam I just wanted to shoot him with a silver bullet myself. I guess, not everyone can be the hero type.  On a different topic....a freind of mine and as well as myself both thought we wanted more sex in the book! LOL  I mean, I agree with whoever said "let not get carried aways and make this some kind of erotica novel" and I paraphrased there but com'n....I felt it was a little PG-13 for me. Nevertheless, nothing will stop me from reading anything Ms. Briggs writes and I will always be a supporter of her work.

I hope all you girl/guys are well.  Thanks for listening.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: littlebittysami on April 04, 2010, 05:20:18 pm

Adam demanding Mercy marry him annoys the hell out of me. while I like the character to a certain extent, it's this part of his character that grates on me, and alpha or not he's a bit of an ass because he tries to push his will onto Mercy. And usually it fails with the exception of the cameras being installed in her garage. I can't see Mercy suddenly giving in to Adam and becoming extremely compliant to his demands no matter how much she loves him. Through out the series Mercy has had strong feelings Adam, and even though there was a very weak triangle with Samuel (who was never going to "win" Mercy no matter what us Sam fans wanted) it was pretty much spelled out that Adam would be her choice in the end. I don't think the mate/pack bond makes you suddenly without free will. Mercy has chafed under Adam's dictatorial behavior before, which has caused her to act on her own, I doubt it's going to stop now that she's in his pack.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2010, 05:37:18 pm
Wow.  Who's been putting the cranky drops in your morning cup?
Alphas are control freaks.  Adam was born in the days of "good girls (and boys) get married, full stop."  Mercy, being born out of wedlock and undoubtedly having suffered for it, (as evinced by the fact that she went on birth control when she & Adam got serious) has absolutely no objection to marriage as such, and fairly obviously does plan to marry him, now that the "maybe I can keep the vampires from threatening the pack by bolting" thing is over.  It's all posturing between them on that subject, and maneuver to determine when, and what kind of ceremony they're going to have.  On page 26, when she says to him "Don't you mean WILL you marry me?" she says "I meant it to be funny."  So she doesn't object.  Therefore I see no reason for us to be cranky about it.  Mercy expects that kind of behavior from dominant werewolves.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Australian Emm on April 04, 2010, 05:46:36 pm
I'm hoping to love this book as much as everyone else has, ( I am yet to get it, due to location  >:()

BUT! As an outsider, searching the forums, like the hopless one that I am, I just have a few questions... could anyone please help me? Just to get me through the next few weeks without going completely crazy...

1. How does this thing with Ari go down? Does she just appear when Mercy is away or does something much more romantic or darmatic happen?

2. What happens to Samuel? (Fav character, love him to bits) Besides finding Ari. Whats this all around broken cars, Sam/Samuel (I'm supposing the different names for his wolf?) and Bran (also a fav)? So very confusing....  :(

3. BEN! How does he devlop? And whats this talk about him getting with Jesse, um Gabe's still in the picture right....right?

If anyone could help would be SO wonderful! :-)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 04, 2010, 05:48:04 pm
Exactly. If Mercy didn't want to marry Adam, however he makes it known that his plan is for her to do it... I don't think anything would make her marry him.  Since she doesn't object, I think perhaps she would be more shocked than anything with him being polite and asking rather than just telling her that she will, in fact, be marrying him.  She knows he's a control freak, and she knows how to deal with that.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2010, 05:56:56 pm
I'm hoping to love this book as much as everyone else has, ( I am yet to get it, due to location  >:()

BUT! As an outsider, searching the forums, like the hopless one that I am, I just have a few questions... could anyone please help me? Just to get me through the next few weeks without going completely crazy...

1. How does this thing with Ari go down? Does she just appear when Mercy is away or does something much more romantic or darmatic happen?

2. What happens to Samuel? (Fav character, love him to bits) Besides finding Ari. Whats this all around broken cars, Sam/Samuel (I'm supposing the different names for his wolf?) and Bran (also a fav)? So very confusing....  :(

3. BEN! How does he devlop? And whats this talk about him getting with Jesse, um Gabe's still in the picture right....right?

If anyone could help would be SO wonderful! :-)

1. Ari is introduced gradually, don't want to give too much away.
2. As the sample chapter says, Samuel wrecked his car, trying to commit suicide.  His wolf half "Sam" takes over at that point.
3. I personally don't think that Ben is trying to edge Gabriel out.  My opinion is that he's starting to feel a bit 'older brother' to her, not going sweet on her.  There isn't a lot more about his development in this book.

On a side note, this IS "Samuel's story.  Just like "Iron Kissed" was Zee's story, or "Blood Bound" was Stefan's story.  It has more to do with his life and issues than it does with any of the other ancillary characters...It is, however still part of the MERCY series.  So it's mostly about Mercy.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Australian Emm on April 04, 2010, 06:18:43 pm
OH! Lovely!!!  bOuNcY Thank you for the summary, really helps  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 04, 2010, 06:34:31 pm
I will marry sammuel- (love the nick!) I sent you a pm about getting the book. If you are interested - I can send you another about those Q's if you want since it goes into real details.


As for the getting married thing. I agree - I don't think it was a demand at all. I think that they both want to and expect to get married. But the thing that is holding them back which Mercy and Adam is aware of is that of Sam's welfare and the Pack. This book dealt with both issues - I also thought it was a cute scene where they were flirting than anything else. Adam would never dominate or issue orders to Mercy like that and I think they enjoy challenging each other which is the sense I got. Like dressing appropriately for the dates they had. It's a battle of wits and mutual respect that they have for each other which is core to their relationship. I don't think Mercy shared that with Sam.

I think that Mercy will move in with Adam although i suspect there will be more of a battle of what kind of wedding they will have rather than the fact them not getting married. If I was Mercy I would be scared of doves and white satin too.
And for Adam being dictatorial - well I thought it was far from that. He's given her a lot of space for her to decide things on her own terms and in fact Mercy never listens to anyone unless it suits her which Sam has pointed out several time. There was a scene in the book where he used a patronising tone which Adam has never done so. And Mercy has stated in a previous book that Sam never really respected her not in a bad sense but in terms of her abilities. Adam sees that and she realises this. The truly acted like an alpha pair in this book especially in the challenge scene
As for Sam - in the interview section of the board, there is footage of a recent signing which Patty appeared in and she mentioned that she would like to write a book about Sam which I WOULD LOVE, because I dont think having a side story in the Mercy series will be as good because its Mercy's POV and its her story. Like the previous books which featured Zee in Iron Kissed and Bone Crossed for Stefan we wont get the full picture. In Silver Borne we saw the possibility and a lifeline for Sam - like those rocks which Mercy viewed as part of the packbonds. Ari and Sam still have a lot of issues/back story to explore - I hope we get a prequel which outlines their introduction and I suspect it will link up with Bran and his mother too because I think that is the black witch in the story.

But with Ari - this is a person which Sam can view his equal because of her age and the fact shes a powerful fae but also she's also more vulnerable in some ways than Mercy. Unlike Mercy whose core strength is independence - Sam can actually care and nurture without suffocating her , especially with their shared past, which he would have done for Mercy.
I didn't want to write a long reply but I am in the middle of writing a review so I am going all analytical right now :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2010, 06:42:48 pm
I'm reminded!  I wonder if Mercy found a "pack bond garland" to Samuel?  Or is it more subtle than the CB pack's bonds?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 04, 2010, 06:47:54 pm
I'm reminded!  I wonder if Mercy found a "pack bond garland" to Samuel?  Or is it more subtle than the CB pack's bonds?

Maybe she didn't because Sam's "garland" wouldn't necessarily tie back to Adam.  To Mercy, yes, and through Mercy, Adam.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 04, 2010, 06:51:26 pm
And maybe the ties run differently - I dont think we saw the pack bond/garlands of Bran right? And that is what Sam linked into?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 04, 2010, 07:00:27 pm
If she was looking for it, I bet she could find her bond to Sam.  Remember how she had to search for something different to see Aurielle and Darryl's mate bond?  But mostly, she was looking at the CB pack's bonds, all connected to her via Adam.  Sam considers her to be Pack, and has been shown to be able to utilize some sort of pack bond between them, so the bond should be there for her to find.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2010, 07:04:00 pm
I'm guessing that if Sam could draw strength to heal( from his header) from Mercy, he should have some bond directly to her.  Mercy's connection to Bran is through Adam, so I wouldn't expect to see that, as such.  If she had looked, she might have found a finer garland leading to Bran from Adam, I don't know.  And why wouldn't Mercy find the bond between her and Samuel?  It connecting or not to Adam would be irrelevant, if she can see it at all.  But so far, it's only worked for Sam to draw from her.  Maybe because Bran doesn't know it exists, he didn't do anything to help her recognize/visualize the bond to Sam.  And it wasn't relevant to their trying to find her there in the Elphame, so even if he knew it existed, he might not have bothered to point it out - if he could recognize it in whatever fashion he perceived it
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 04, 2010, 07:09:55 pm
I think Sam was using the bonds via Bran's links (remember in Cry Wolf Bran gave him control of the packs when he encountered Mariposa) -  and he didnt need to use the blood and magic ceremony which was olde
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 04, 2010, 07:26:08 pm
I think Sam was using the bonds via Bran's links (remember in Cry Wolf Bran gave him control of the packs when he encountered Mariposa) -  and he didnt need to use the blood and magic ceremony which was olde
I thought Bran gave him temporary control over some of the wolves in the Aspen Creek Pack?  Sam doesn't want to be Alpha; Bran wouldn't have left him those direct links In my mind, it would be a major stretch for Sam to be able to pull strength from Mercy via his connection to Bran, Bran's connection to Adam, and Adam's connection to Mercy.  More so for him to manage it without anyone noticing.  However, Sam and Mercy being their own Pack and Sam able to draw on Mercy (and who's to say she couldn't draw on him if she knew how?), well, that seems reasonable.  A little unorthodox for Mercy to have Pack ties to two separate Packs, sure, but a lot about Mercy is unorthodox (as a non-random example; her being able to be Pack at all!) and it seems that a lot about Sam is unorthodox, too.  Mercy did point out in Iron Kissed (I think) that Samuel's wolf saw her as Pack and not as mate.  Sam knows how to make pack bonds without the ceremony... so he did.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 04, 2010, 07:37:37 pm
Oh I meant that temporarily :D
You know something that caught my interest and I wonder if Mercy who is part of two packs affects her in some ways metaphysically? The fae queen referred her as half immortal which I found interesting because as far as we know she's human/has a human lifespan although she is a shifter and has some magical ability but it doesn't make her half immortal. Does this make sense?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 04, 2010, 07:43:39 pm
I actually mentioned that somewhere in a previous post, that I found the wording there interesting... that "half human" certainly describes Mercy, but "almost-mortal" implies that she is not (or no longer) mortal... and THAT is something new.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 04, 2010, 07:48:01 pm
It does!!! I wonder if it was the pack bond/mate bonding or is being part of a Walker? In Bone Crossed there was an implied suggestion that the Walker that Blackwood held captive had a much longer lifespan especially if stole a horse in his youth which affected his abilities. Maybe Walkers have a longer lifespan than most or maybe its the wibbly wobbly magic wimey affects of the pack/mate bonding :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 04, 2010, 07:59:31 pm
Wasn't the long lifespan of Blackwood's previous walker victim linked (at least assumed to be linked) to the vampire feeding off of him?  Vampires don't usually leave their victims alive for too long, but it seemed like Blackwood had experience with keeping his alive for longer than a normal life span.  
I believe there has been some discussion with Patty about the lifespan of Walkers, and her response has been that Walkers have a normal, human lifespan.   so my vote is, IF we aren't reading too much into this, it is a result of the pack/mate bonds.  Which would be exciting.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 04, 2010, 09:52:45 pm
You have all been really fantastic using the spoiler tags for this early part of the book release. Patti and I have stripped them from the upthread conversation so you can continue on discussing the book without using them anymore. Enjoy everyone.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Mike Briggs on April 04, 2010, 10:52:42 pm
This is true, Patti. We can agree to disagree. :)

 I also think that while every author loves to get praises for their work form their audience, they also like to get a little critique every now and then. It helps us be better writers, and Patty is definitely very good. I've read so many bad popular novels that Silver Borne, even in with my issues with it and the feeling of certain things happening out of the such blue such as when did Mercy and Anna meet and why didn't we get to see it?, or even Ariana herself  it is is still a much better story involving paranormal critters than most anything else I've read in the genre.  

I am certainly looking forward to the next book as well as the next Alpha and Omega book. I'm not giving in yet.

Excellent point.  Authors DO love to read all the sweetness and light reviews, but they don't LEARN as much from those as they do from the ones that ask hard questions.   Books are always imperfect.  They're always a series of decisions, and every one a compromise.  For example, I know that Patty's about half afraid of trying to put Anna and Mercy in the same pages.   There's Anna fans and Mercy fans.  Both are strong characters, with an ongoing series.  If they meet, and get along like old chums, it's boring, costing her readers.  If they argue, one or both comes off as unsympathetic, costing her readers.*  Besides, strong characters have strong voices, and getting too many of them in a scene makes it hard for the author to keep them separate.    So, they're unlikely to ever share pages.  This solves some problems, and creates others.

The Rip-van-winkle act of losing a month is another imperfect compromise.  Hours passed for Mercy, a month for everyone else.  How do you show that -- especially since Mercy was enthralled?  Head hop to other characters for a few chapters?  Possible, but that works better in a third-person novel.  Patty chose to stay in Mercy's head, which meant the events of that month (including those between Samuel and Ariana)  happened off-screen, making that romance seem much more rushed than it actually was.   She could have gone a different way, and made a different compromise, but it would still have been a compromise.

Patty, like most authors, tries to make the decisions that will result in the best story.   She doesn't always get it right, and sometimes what she perceives as a minor "cost" for a decision ultimately costs her readers.   Honest reviews are the best way for an author to evaluate their choices, and say "I  like this and this, but if I had it to do over, I'd make a few changes to that."   So, thank you for the comments, they'll help make sure she makes more informed decisions in future books. **     Writing is always a challenge, and good writers are always learning.

*There's a balance here, too.  Sometimes being true to the story means doing things that will cost readership.  For example, Mercy's rape in Iron Kissed.  Patty knew some people would hate it, and stop reading. She knew it would result in some bad reviews.  But, in her mind, that's where the story led, and the lost readership was a necessary cost.  Another decision, another compromise.

*Note: I'm not necessarily saying that I disagree with Patty's decisions, or that she make some huge mistake.  Merely that writing involves many decisions, and feedback is essential to develop an accurate sense of how readers will react to various options.   Tales are never simply told, they're told to someone, and a good storyteller tailors the story to fit the audience.  Without feedback from the audience, that's hard to do.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 05, 2010, 08:36:20 am
WOW. I"m exhausted.  I"m so glad ya'll are good at doing this.....I love reading it all.


I love all the characters...because they are each different and they bring different things out in each other.  I'd marry any of the wolves and they wouldn't have to use their will on me!!! LOL JK
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 05, 2010, 08:58:39 am
Regarding the comment on Mercy being "Half mortal", my guess is that it's fae slang or shorthand for the non-magical humans or other shorter lifespan non-magicals.  I don't think it indicates that Mercy's half-Walker heritage is "immortal", I think it just means it's half magical.  We could always ask Patty in the AP section.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 05, 2010, 09:28:19 am
Am I the only one who was slightly jealous when Ariana came into the picture? ;D

I'm just puttin' it out there and ownin' it!  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 05, 2010, 09:30:29 am
Nottled, you're funny; I'm tempted to tease you about being fickle and untrue to Greymist or Shu-Jon.  But I never get invested enough to get jealous.  Sometimes I think they make less than optimal choices, but I never think they could/want it to be me.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 05, 2010, 09:32:24 am
Oh no Nottled, you're not the only one who wants Samuel for themself. I'm guilty.  :D LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 05, 2010, 09:32:55 am
You are not alone, nottled!  :-[ I just hope she deserves him. It'll be nice to see how they are together now they're in a relationship.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 05, 2010, 11:08:33 am
Am I the only one who was slightly jealous when Ariana came into the picture? ;D

I'm just puttin' it out there and ownin' it!  LOL

No.  I love Samuel, I'm pretty sure he would love me too....if he was real. :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 05, 2010, 11:15:03 am
When Mercy had met Anna, Mercy made the comment that Anna didn't have the same kind of calming effect on her as she has on the wolves.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 05, 2010, 11:16:31 am
I haven't read the book yet, but by all the spoilers. I can't wait to read it. It's bugging me that I haven't read it.

Maybe not with her Omega ability, but maybe by the way she does things. Anna is tough, but she takes things slowly and don't let her emotions rule her to much. She listens to Brother Wolf advice like she did in Hunting grounds. She's more like a hunter and trapper. Mercy is what we call in the security business a Wyatt Earp, Shoot first and ask questions later. She reacts with force and such. She goes in and does what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: midnight on April 05, 2010, 11:59:50 am
Am I the only one who was slightly jealous when Ariana came into the picture? ;D

I'm just puttin' it out there and ownin' it!  LOL


 LOL LOL LOL don't worry nottled I'm the same way with Adam. As much as I love Mercy, I can't help but be jealous because I want Adam all to myself.  :-[   Adam just pulls on my heartstrings. :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 05, 2010, 12:02:24 pm
I want him to be happy but ....I luz him...... :-[
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 05, 2010, 12:05:27 pm
Am I the only Ben lover here? I think he could be a great character to develop more.  I see changes in him already! he saved Medea!!!!!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 05, 2010, 12:09:51 pm
I know, I love that Ben saved Medea. He won my heart in this book. I love Ben, Warrren, Samuel, Adam, Bran...okay I will take them all.  :-whistle  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: midnight on April 05, 2010, 12:19:54 pm
Am I the only Ben lover here? I think he could be a great character to develop more.  I see changes in him already! he saved Medea!!!!!

 :D No, I love him too. I definitely have a soft spot for him. Warren too.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 05, 2010, 06:27:12 pm
I moved the last 20 or so posts over to the "Rank, dominance, Alphas, & the Military thread:  http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=240.0
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 05, 2010, 06:36:03 pm
Thanks Patti, it kind of threw me for a loop for a bit... "hey, where did the last posts go!?"  but then I found them. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 05, 2010, 06:39:39 pm
Yeah.  Interesting stuff, but nothing to do with SB.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 06:25:32 am
Ellyll asked, "Why Ben?"

I love Ben too. Yeah, he's a possible serial rapist but there's something vulnerable and loyal that endears him to me. I think because he's been abused himself, I mentally excuse his behavior. I also enjoy comically bitter characters so he works for me.  :)

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 06, 2010, 06:47:16 am
I wasn't asking why anyone would like Ben.  I love Ben, too.   :D  My question was why the person before me had suggested that Ben should "kick Paul's butt" - given the stories, it didn't make sense to me.  :-\
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 06, 2010, 07:04:37 am
I think Ben has the potential to get higher up in the ranks but I think he has to start healing and getting over the abuse/his issues before he can do that or otherwise it might not be a good thing because you have to be pretty dominant/aggressive and that can twist a person.
Talking about Ben- I know some people have commented about him flirting with Jesse in the hot chocolate scene but I also noticed that he did the same thing with Mercy in front of Adam during the aftermath of Hart and the abortive shoot-em-up. I find it interesting that he chose to flirt in front of Adam of all people and Jesse- but I think I realised that both Mercy (who Ben really likes and respects) and Jesse who is a minor but is also is his alpha's daughter are women who he considers with esteem. Maybe its a sign of healing and they are representative that women can be seen as good? Does this make sense. My brain is mush :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 06, 2010, 07:18:38 am
Yes, it makes absolute sense! I was one of those people who thought Ben seemed a bit sweet on Jesse. But after I thought about it afterwards, it didn't seem like he was flirting, more like just teasing her because he likes/respects her as a friend and as the Alpha's daughter. He didn't want Jesse to know he was just teasing because he hid his smile from her. Which makes me think that he wants to keep Jesse in the dark about him caring about her as a friend - to keep his walls up. Whatever happened to him growing up has definitely caused some issues with trusting women. I'm pretty sure we will learn the truth eventually. At this point tho, we are seeing him heal and grow into a more respectful and gentler person that has been hidden under a lot of layers of bitterness and sadness.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 07:44:16 am
I wasn't asking why anyone would like Ben.  I love Ben, too.   :D  My question was why the person before me had suggested that Ben should "kick Paul's butt" - given the stories, it didn't make sense to me.  :-\

Nevermind... :-[
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Jax on April 06, 2010, 07:55:39 am
I think Ben sees both Mercy and Jesse as trustworthy, and therefore, safe women with which to re-learn how to behave and connect with the opposite sex. Doing it in front of Adam also gives him the extra reassurance that his behavior is acceptable. Maybe not consciously, of course, but he knows that they will not hesitate to correct him, without being nasty or hurtful. I love watching Ben grow, and it would be sweet to see him heal enough to have someone special in his life.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 09:15:46 am
I have been letting it germinate in my mind. I loved this book and while Moon Called remains my favorite, I definitely love the softer side of Mercy. Smexy scene was FABULOUS!  bOuNcY

If I have any gripes, it would be with both series. If we are discovering the limits of the "bonds" between both couples, fair enough. However, too much "action" time is spent pontificating on the "bond" and dealing with the "bond". It's almost like the bond is a character that's hogging good Mercy time.

I'm sure I'm in the minority because there seems to be a lot of discussion about it here but it bugs me. I don't want to see it take over the books so half of it is actual story line and half of it describing Mercy being overwhelmed by the bond or looking at the bond or being scared of the bond or watering the bond....whatever you do with a bond.  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 06, 2010, 09:23:21 am
whatever you do with a bond.  LOL

If it involves Adam, Sam, Ben, or Warren, I could think of a few things to do with a "bond."  >D*hubba-hubba* 

(For the purposes of my fantasy, I'll pretend that Warren is not gay.   :P)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 09:27:31 am
 LOL LOL LOL LOL


Bond or handcuffs.....? >D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 09:29:59 am
Anybody else find it interesting the way there was that one area where Mercy didn't feel the pack or mate bonds? 
I'm wondering if it's a 'placebo' effect, or if it's a naturally magically neutral, or if something happened there to make it magically 'dead'?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 06, 2010, 09:31:30 am
LOL LOL LOL LOL

Bond or handcuffs.....? >D

Either...both.  I can make it happen. ;)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 09:32:28 am
*swings mod sword to warm up wrists....*
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 06, 2010, 09:35:58 am
 :-whistle O) :-whistle O) :-whistle
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 06, 2010, 09:48:06 am
Awww darn it I missed out on the innuendo :P must behave :D

But back on the bond theme - (no not that :D ) I reread the chapter where Bran gets through Mercy and when he says to her about offending her and how he knew that was interesting- I initially thought that Bran expected her to be peed off because this happened but she was offended because of his criticism about Adam. Yet in that scene you had Mercy 'glimpsing' Bran's Berserker form maybe? And then him commenting about someone was helping (I don't think it was the Forrest Lord- I think its a walker) - Maybe the Walkers are able to tap into that?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 06, 2010, 09:56:31 am
I don't want to see it take over the books so half of it is actual story line and half of it describing Mercy being overwhelmed by the bond or looking at the bond or being scared of the bond or watering the bond....whatever you do with a bond.  LOL

 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 10:35:23 am
It's pretty heavy, having a person/people in your head. It does warrant some discussion and adjustments, I just hope it doesn't completely take over the story line like LE ARDEUR!!!! Oy... 9)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 06, 2010, 10:41:23 am
It's pretty heavy, having a person/people in your head. It does warrant some discussion and adjustments, I just hope it doesn't completely take over the story line like LE ARDEUR!!!! Oy... 9)

After 5 books in this series, I am COMPLETELY CONFIDENT that that will NOT happen.  Not a lot of similarity in any way between Mercy and that other series.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 10:51:03 am
You're right, there aren't many similarities. I was just using that series as an example of what I don't want to happen. I really enjoyed those books in the beginning so it's a bit of a heartbreak to see where they've gone.

She and Laurel are miles apart in many things.  ;)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 10:52:07 am
*sharpens sword.* Silver Borne specifically?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 10:53:36 am
I was discussing Silver Borne and where I don't want it to go!  >:( Bossy boots.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Mike Briggs on April 06, 2010, 11:09:44 am
Bossy Boots?    ???    Bossy Boots?   ;D    Bossy Boots!    :) :D LOL   I'm sorry, I'm off topic now, but that's just AWSOME!    Um, on topic, Adam tries not be Mr. Bossy Boots.   LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 11:14:04 am
Ok.  We've all strayed some, and I've been bad, so I'm trying to keep on topic.  I easily can over do on it once I notice.

I wonder if all Ariana's children looked like their mortal fathers, in as far as they didn't have her coloring or anything to that effect.

[solemnly]It's the claws[/solemnly]
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: nottled on April 06, 2010, 11:19:37 am
You know I love you, Patti.  :-LOVE :-*

I'm normally guilty but this time I wasn't trying to go off.....we swears, Precious.  :-\

Mike, that one gets used a lot with my niece, Halle. She's seven, has flame red hair and could easily have given Hitler a run for his money.


Ooops, edited to say I LOVED it when Jesse told Zee he was beautiful. So sweet.  :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: toastedfroglegs on April 06, 2010, 11:20:23 am
So, I bought "Silver Borne" yesterday and just finished it today. I got say..I'm slightly disappointed. *hides from fans*

It's just, it felt kind of rushed to me. Especially towards the end. And the whole "Silver and Samuel" kind of threw me.

Spoiler Alert!!!!!!



I mean, it was all kind of sudden, I guess. He's had this 15 year(or so) thing for Mercy. And that's just instantly gone, and then Silver appears. I guess I feel sort of mother hen-ish. We barely know this Silver, and suddenly Samuel's in love with her? I know that they met in the WAY past, but I guess I feel like we really didn't get any foreshadowing at all about Silver, or Samuel's connection with her.

I mean, when he was wanting to kill himself, did he know she was alive? Was he in love with her then? Are they a mated pair? I'm very confused on the whole situation.

I read the page, and was like 'what?' 'oh...so he's over mercy now and likes this silver girl?'  I'm a Samuel/Sam fan, but I'm so confused!  ???

I liked how all the other characters got more personality in this book. You really got to see pack dynamic, and liked Bran's appearance as well. But the end of the book just really threw me for a loop.


ah! someone i can agree with! im not alone!

im a big fan of samuel and i love that the previous books have all been a buildup to this moment where he finally "snaps" or something similar.  its been a long saga and reading the alpha and omega series gives a slightly different perspective too.  
reading silver borne, i followed sam/samuel's progression and thought to myself "i really love this character, but i dont see him living through this"  
as much as i would have been in tears forever if he died, i thought it would have been a logical point.
and then...
Suddenly out of the blue!  some woman he hasnt seen in hundreds (?) of years!  magically he is all better! and then they are dating/ mated or something!
wow... thats quite a miracle...
and now im very confused...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 06, 2010, 11:28:21 am
I could totally see Mercy snapping at Adam one time and calling him Bossy Boots in a flash of irritation...and then watching as Adam's jaw hits the floor over being called -- to his face -- "bossy boots." 

Quote
magically he is all better! and then they are dating/ mated or something!

I mean this with all due respect, I promise, but I don't understand how anyone who has read these books up to this point would think that Samuel is magically all better.  The comment Mercy made (to her herself) was that in Ari, Samuel had found a reason to live.  In Ari, he's found something that has intrigued him and re-invigorated his will to keep going, to not turn "all fang and no brain and fall over dead."

I can certainly understand somebody wanting to see more of Sam's relationship with Ari, to see it develop.  To see Sam come back from the edge. 

I guess my thing is that I fully expect to see that in FUTURE books.  Maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm not willing to read the silver Borne and think that Patty has somehow shortchanged us.  I feel confident that there's more to come, but at least now we know who the main players are going to be.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 11:34:48 am
I agree it seems abrupt, but I don't think he's magically ALL better.  I think it's engaged him for the possibility of getting better.  It's probable, but not 100% that this is going to be the beginning of his healing.  It starts with him being kicked out of "I don't make a difference any more, it's all more of the same-same."  Then it goes on to "Look, someone you care about needs help and is interested in you."  That means maybe something new is coming, at long last, or a redemption that he's long missed, or feels he's missed out on.  
Because that last month was compressed into a couple of pages due to Mercy not experiencing it, it feels very rushed.  If we'd seen it from an outside view, it wouldn't have felt that way, probably.  It would have been longer than Patty is comfortable writing, is my impression, and it would have required a shift from the formula used for the Mercy books.

Good articulation of it, Nifty!  Yes, it's a chance, not a complete redemption.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: CarolKat on April 06, 2010, 01:29:42 pm
Patti and Nifty great explanation and I would like to add just a little note to that.  I don't remember off the top of my head who, but either Patty or Mike has said that Sam's recovery and relationship would not be smooth, rocky roads and bumps along the way.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 01:35:12 pm
Quite so, Carol.  I don't think that with hundreds of years of no treatment for the abuse she got from her father, Ari is going to recover in just the month we missed any more than Mercy has recovered from Tim yet.

I wonder how they did deal with filing the claim for the exploded trailer with the insurance company, with Mercy not there to do it?  And how far behind she is on Christmas preparations?  Which will be tight, I suspect, since she has to buy a new wardrobe.  The only things she theoretically has are the ones she was wearing when the trailer blew, and what she might have had (augmented by mechanic's overalls) at the garage.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: CarolKat on April 06, 2010, 01:42:33 pm
I wonder if filing that claim might just take that long.  You do have to have all kinds of reports from police, fire marshalls, etc. I am pretty certain photos would be part of those reports, and Adam would have made sure photos were taken before clean up began.

Well we do know that Aurielle brought her a new coat, maybe she picked up a few other things for Mercy as well.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 06, 2010, 01:44:45 pm
 :D Of course not... as much as I love Sam, how boring would it be if the rest of his life became a sequence of happy days living the American dream?  Happy people with a stable job, perfect significant other, white picket fence, 2 point 5 average children, and a dog... do NOT make for exciting reading material.  

Also, I would like to second/third the kudos on the explanation by Patty and Nifty.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 06, 2010, 01:46:23 pm
The pack could say she was away during the explosion and maybe Sam dealt with the day to day stuff. And wouldn't the cost of her clothing would be included in the content/home insurance?

I think with Sam and Ari - its def a start or its really the restart of something new. Sam healed Ari when they first met up but in a way I can see Ari healing Sam due to him being world weary and his age. So its full circle. :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 06, 2010, 01:48:33 pm
I know I"M going to get it for this but....


I am a HUGE Samuel fan and I too didn't really "like" the whole Ari thing....I"m glad I got it because it kept him from the edge and now he's stable "enough" to carry on, for now. I liked how we see Samuel as a real Werewolf, capable of mauling someone...whether it was under magical powers or not...he too, has a "bad" side. I mean we keep hearing about how he's a dominant wolf but we've never been given a story about him killing anyone or going beserk. He isn't docile and calm all the time, is he?  However, I've always said and now I know it to be true that there had to be more than 1 Walker in the whole Were Universe.  I would like to see this angle used more with Samuel than a Fae because for one, they are closer to the wolves in many ways than a Fae. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: CarolKat on April 06, 2010, 01:57:09 pm
I tend to disagree here since we haven't yet seen other walkers.  Sam is very old, and having had interactions with the fae in his past makes Ari a much more practical choice for him.  We see just a touch of what was between them long ago and we don't know yet why Sam totally disappeared back then, or the timeline.  It could be that Sam disappeared because that was when Bran went Beserker.

Has yes clothing would be included in the insurance claim but that money will take some time before arriving. Mercy will need clothes long before that happens unless Adam is planning on keeping her in his bedroom until then :-whistle
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 02:08:34 pm
I like the debate!  Sam may not have met a female Walker before Mercy, or he might have tried to woo her for a mate!

I'm wondering too if the 'black witch' involved was indeed Granny Cornick, and it was the berserker period that kept Samuel from sticking by Ari then, possibly combined with his realizing that all canids were provoking hard-to-survive FAE panic attacks.

And since presumably (I believe it was specifically mentioned) Zee and Gabriel have been keeping the garage running in her absence, she should have a little income from that time that she can put toward re-outfitting herself.  It would be amusing to have a scene or two in the next book with her going shopping for clothes with any of the female werewolves...although I don't think Honey's tastes would work for her!  :D

I'm also curious what Tony is going to make of the events of this book.  On the one hand, he is trying to be close to Sylvia, on the other, there's watching out for Gabriel for Sylvia, however angry she is, I don't think she'll have severed all contact with him.  And, on the third hand - or just juggling it all - there's his long running relationship with Mercy, as one of his 'ears to the ground', and resource for all things magical.  How torn will his loyalties be?

And will someone explain to Sylvia that Mercy was actually distinctly careful in letting "Snowball" stay with Maia?  Not to mention willingly trading her life & freedom for Gabriel's?  Will there ever be a rapprochement there?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 06, 2010, 02:12:40 pm
Bossy Boots?    ???    Bossy Boots?   ;D    Bossy Boots!    :) :D LOL   I'm sorry, I'm off topic now, but that's just AWSOME!    Um, on topic, Adam tries not be Mr. Bossy Boots.   LOL

 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Quote
I'm wondering too if the 'black witch' involved was indeed Granny Cornick, and it was the berserker period that kept Samuel from sticking by Ari then, possibly combined with his realizing that all canids were provoking hard-to-survive FAE panic attacks.

I had been thinking much the same thing, it seems to make sense.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 06, 2010, 02:53:38 pm
I think its Bran's mother too- and I got a theory that Ari is a Berserker too because her father turned her into a 'beast' and I think her panic attacks can change her into one. Zee looked mighty nervous.
But then i was wrong about the bounty hunter and maybe I am wrong about this theory - but I iz sticking to it along that a Walker helped Mercy and Bran in the bond pack discussion :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 02:59:27 pm
Interesting interpretation, Has. 
Personally, I'm thinking that it was the walking stick with whatever assistance the chained forest lord could give, which wouldn't have been much.  Probably combined with Mercy's innate abilities that aren't channeled by any training, so they have, as she said to Ari, "odd effects", plus the fact that as a coyote, Mercy's mind is more like a wolf's than the fairy queen would have expected, while retaining a more individualistic, quirky bent.  But mostly the walking stick.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 06, 2010, 03:09:47 pm
I just thought Bran's comments was too specific about that - he mentioned several times he was wondering about who was boosting the 'signal' so to speak and Mercy's reaction towards him when she caught a glimpsed his beast made me wonder. My vague speculation/ideas is that maybe Bran did contact the Walkers and they wanted custody of Mercy and Bran refused because he regarded her as part of the pack or maybe they didn't want anything to do with her but was keeping an eye on her? I don't know but I think the stick and the Forrest Lord may have helped connect them - but i think there was an outside boost so to speak :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 06, 2010, 03:17:17 pm
Going to be interesting to find out!

I was about to object to your "maybe they didn't want anything to do with her but was keeping an eye on her?" as contradictory, but then I remembered that people do think that way, just like Christy dog in the manger doesn't want Adam - or even Jesse - but doesn't want Mercy to have them.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 06, 2010, 03:32:34 pm
I can't remember who is saying what:  LOL  I don't really analyze too much of the stories....I go by how they make me "feel"  I love getting all the backstory/details etc., but for me....it's about how much I can connect to the characters.  I don't really focus on all the ins and outs. Of course, I"m assuming we each feel connected to some of them or all of them in some way---or we wouldn't be fans.

As for the Walker debate.  No, we were never told of any other Walkers BUT!  I just figure ( although it was never implied) within a whole Indian Nation there can't just be one. I mean really? just one??? to me, that is way more far fetched than there being several....or atleast two.  If Samuel died or was killed off in these books I would be devasted, really! BUT! I would rather see him go like that than kept around to woo a Fae, I don't like it! not one bit!! LOL  I think the odds of meeting another Walker are better than meeting this long time love from centuries ago.  I don't mind the Fae being in the storylines but I just don't see Samuel with one (of course that's because I really only see him with me) I also tend to think there might be a whole new dimension to wolves/coyotes/fae and things that go bump in the night when and if we ever get to see the European side.  How exciting!   
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 06, 2010, 03:42:22 pm
We are going to see more Walkers in River Marked :D and Patty always said that Mercy was not alone but they were aware and watching her.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 06, 2010, 03:52:08 pm
wolverine, have you read Bone Crossed yet? Carson Twelve Spoons
is a walker as well. Unfortunate that we didn't find out what
animal he turned into.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 06, 2010, 05:34:41 pm
I've read them all. I don't remember reading that though....but like I said, I don't retain everything...and I read Bone Crossed when it first came out hence, I don't remember! LOL  I"m very anxious to see what develops.  I can't believe we have to wait another year. UGH.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 06, 2010, 06:05:04 pm
yes, but Carson Twelve Spoons is dead, and apparently outlived his normal lifespan as a result of blood exchange with the vampire. 

So does he really count as a contemporary Walker?  We knew that there had to be other walkers at other times, the question has been whether they have all died out now (and the apparent answer is a resounding "NO!") 

But they seem to be elusive - not something that Samuel has encountered before.  I'm not sure I like his being with a fae, either, but I'm withholding judgment on Ariana until I get to know her better.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 06, 2010, 07:01:02 pm
As for the Walker debate.  No, we were never told of any other Walkers BUT!  I just figure ( although it was never implied) within a whole Indian Nation there can't just be one. I mean really? just one??? to me, that is way more far fetched than there being several....or atleast two.    

Sorry, when I said that Carson was also a walker I was responding this quote from wolverine. I was on my phone earlier so it's difficult to quote a message back. We know from Blood Bound that the vampires killed off most of the walkers but not all. They're out there, but like Patty has said in some earlier chats, they're very good at blending in...she's also said that Bran knows more about them than he's saying. I'm not surprised by that at all.

So off topic though. Back to Silver Borne. I like Ari and I like her with Sam. I was reading Iron Kissed before Silver Borne and it's a very strong Sam book and it really helped me to understand what he was looking for in a mate.

I see Sam very much in a position like Asil. The Moor has found interest in teaching Anna what it is to be an Omega and that's pulled him back from the dark place that he was in...he still has a way to go but he's on the road to getting better. Like some of the posters upthread I see Ari as that for Sam. She's not a magic pill but she, just by being there, is giving him a reason.

I'm sure we'll see more of them interacting in the next book just like we see little tidbits of the Warren/Kyle relationship. One thing that I loved with Warren and Kyle is that Warren is a private investigator now. I loved that. I love that with every book we see him grow as a character and his relationship with Kyle strengthen.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 07, 2010, 02:16:18 am
I devoured and loved Silver Borne!!! It was just so awesome!

I missed Stefan but he hogged the spotlight in the last book so that's ok  LOL.
I really like the Samuel/Ariana twist. It has so much potential to grow. The fact that she hits all of his protective buttons is good because he will focus on taking care of her like he had the last time they met, and by the time she is better he will hopefully have gotten through the worst of the funk he is in now.

I've read the comments on their relationship and it seems like people are pretty divided on what they think. I personally don't think that they are in love right now, but the last time they met there was a definite potential for a serious relationship, but with her scars and Sam's shame at wounding her (remember they were both pretty young for their species) that potential was never realised. Now as adults they can aknowledge that potential and see where it goes. (This happens all the time in real life, people meet and click but go their separate ways since they aren't ready for anything serious, then meet again years later and end up as a permanent couple.)

Should we be thinking kids yet? I doubt it, neither of them are cured yet, they are just aknowledging that a cure is possible, which is a huge step in the right direction. And because neither of them are stable they would not make good parents right now.

Another question that seemed to have been asked a lot was why was Aurielle such a staunch Mercy supporter when she disliked her so much in IK? My own opinion is that she already had it out with Mercy in IK and Mercy responded by saying that Adam is HERS so deal with it! That's basically what Mercy told Mary Jo in SB, and Mary Jo supported her by the end of the book (yes I realise it was a lot more complicated than that but Mary Jo's "crush" made it necessarily more complicated since her screw up was not just verbal). I'm not sure if I'm being clear or not, but I have a feeling that each wolf will have to have their own "Mercy moment" for them to truly accept her and Aurielle supported Mercy in SB because she was lucky enough to have that moment in IK.

That's all I have to say at the moment but I really need to re-read SB again to get the finer details.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: skipaliforus on April 07, 2010, 04:01:48 am
I was thinking about the book last night and something dawned on me....Mercy was with the fairy queen for a month, that means she was off "the pill" that whole time (mercy doesn't carry a purse and that isn't the kind of thing you keep in the back pocket like a wallet). Then when she meets up with Adam they do it twice right away, and I doubt either of them was thinking about contraception at that point in time.


while I don't think anything will come of it, I thought it was an interesting little tidbit to fuel our imaginations while we wait for the next book. (sigh, yet another year of hell till we get our day in new Mercy book heaven)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 07, 2010, 04:18:22 am
I dont think Mercy was with the fae queen for a whole month. Time passed a few hours while she was being hurt by the witch and then she passed out for a few hours before she was enthralled while outside of Elphame it was a month. Although Gabriel was there for longer in Elphame yet outside was a few days- it can be confusing :P :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: skipaliforus on April 07, 2010, 04:38:39 am
oh, yeah. duh my bad. sorry was 4am and was letting my mind wonder while i waited  to fall asleep. well so much for that
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 07, 2010, 05:34:29 am
I missed Stefan but he hogged the spotlight in the last book so that's ok  LOL.

True, true, true. After my husband finished it, I told him that was my only complaint. No Stefan, not even a smidge... But you are right. BC was Stefan-centric. Still, a girl can wish all three of those lovely men have some page time.  :P
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: midnight on April 07, 2010, 05:35:48 am
Bossy Boots?    ???    Bossy Boots?   ;D    Bossy Boots!    :) :D LOL   I'm sorry, I'm off topic now, but that's just AWSOME!    Um, on topic, Adam tries not be Mr. Bossy Boots.   LOL

 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Quote
I'm wondering too if the 'black witch' involved was indeed Granny Cornick, and it was the berserker period that kept Samuel from sticking by Ari then, possibly combined with his realizing that all canids were provoking hard-to-survive FAE panic attacks.

I had been thinking much the same thing, it seems to make sense.



In cry wolf didn't it mention that Bran ate his mother years ago and Samuel confirmed it by saying "grandmother had been dead for years." or words to that effect.  ???
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 07, 2010, 08:16:58 am
I am talking about, and I beleive Has was also, the witch who helped Ari's father many, many, many, many years ago.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Jax on April 07, 2010, 02:30:36 pm
I had wondered that m'self, charmed. She had something to do with Bran and Sam being turned into werewolves, didn't she? And Ari's father had a witch help him try to get his beasts back and ended up with werewolves. It makes sense.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 03:00:41 pm
That's what I figured it meant when I read.  I could be wrong, but that's the only way I could see it really making sense.  I can't see Bran and Sam getting sucked into the clutches of any other witch after their mother/grandmother got done with them.  And since my impression has been that she was responsible for their Changes, there was no time before her for them to be influenced by a previous witch. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 07, 2010, 03:35:27 pm
I agree!!!! I was speculating with a few others about this too and I suspect werewolves was created as well. The line where the beasts/wolves changed and turned against Ari's father made me go hmmm. Maybe Bran's mother realised she could tap into that?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 07, 2010, 03:37:59 pm
I may be way off base here but maybe Bran had enough will to overide the curse, hence the Beserker....maybe that is what makes him strong enough to be the Alpha of all Alphas over North America.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 04:12:08 pm
Okay!, I have finally read Silver Borne. Most of what I read was kind of boring, there wasn't to much action in it first off. Second, I could see why Mary Jo didn't like Mercy after what happen to her. That could be understandable. Third, I really couldn't see three low ranking members taking on Mercy or Adam at all. Your talking about the Alpha dogs here. True, Adam couldn't draw upon the pack to speed his healing up after charging into Mercy's trailer while it was on fire, because how dysfunctional the pack was. True, Mercy didn't know how to use and protect herself from outside influence, but Mercy normally is a controlled person. It takes allot to make her do something stupid. Okay!, maybe not allot, but still Mercy is a tough nut to crack.

Fourth, Even tho, Paul made a challenge to Adam for leadership, Darryl, Darryl's wife or Warren are the only three who could make the challenge according to the three rank law. Paul isn't in the top three ranks away from Adam. According to the book, the following people are the top most: Mercy,Darryl, Darryl's mate and Warren. So I don't see how that could had apply.

Fifth, The lower ranking wolves, would know that the Marrok doesn't like having his rules question or broken. Once word got to his ears, he would come down and clean house or he would send Charles to do it. They all know about Charles being the hatchet man of the Marrok.

Six, Given time, I think Anna could had fix Sam's problem. She does seem to posse certain qualities about her that give her an edge on solving problems with people and wolves. However, Mercy was a better choice. She knows more about Sam then Anna does and sort of understands what his problem was. Mostly, because of what happen with her foster parents.

Seven, The ending did seem to be rushed. I know that the story is about Mercy, but in the condition Adam was in or even how angry the Marrok was. It would had been nice to see them handle the Fairy Queen and rescue Mercy for once. Even if it was just Adam along, that would had been romantic. That would make a bigger statement of Don't mess with our kind or those under our protection better.

Eight, I do like that Samuel finally has someone that needs him and sort of loves him. That much I think is nice. It's about time he had some happiness. A short story with them in it, would be a good touch.

Overall, I did enjoy the book. Other then what I have pointed out, it gave some insight into how the pack bonds work and how the mate bond works as well. It explains some things, but leaves open a whole lot more. Also, it would be nice to see in the final book, if Patty is going to end the series. The wedding of Adam and Mercy. Even if it is the two of them eloping to get married.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 04:16:34 pm
Wolverine,

 I think you might be right. Bran does seem to posse a very strong will. I think he is extremely powerful, one because of his age and two because he does things with a plan. I think he waited for the perfect time to attack his mother, either when she was weak or overconfident about her control over him and Sam. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 04:29:41 pm
You're right that this was not the most cavalry-driven book of the series.  (ie, it wasn't all that action-packed)  There were still some good fight to the death scenes.  

As Ben says, it's "Within three MALES"  of the top rank... Mercy tries the angle of "Paul doesn't have the right."  Apparently, as males go, it's Adam, Darryl, Warren, Henry, Paul; or maybe Paul, Henry.  Paul, Henry, and even Mary Jo are actually not that far off in dominance from the top.  Also, taking into account the State of the Pack (being more volatile than usual because of the troublemakers), Adam probably would have found himself in a position where he needed to accept any challenge, just to remind the Pack that he's boss because he's pretty B.A. (and speaking of @$$es, he can whip yours even with his hands and feet crispy fried, puppy), and not just because he talks big or because Bran likes him or anything like that.  
and when Mary Jo was messing with her head (yeah I can understand her not liking Mercy, too) maybe if Mercy had realized that it was an outside influence, she would have been able to resist, but she didn't realize that, and Mary Jo played off of Mercy's own desire to protect her mate.  It wasn't unreasonable to want to do something to show the people in the building that Adam was a hero... and Mary Jo just gave her some nudges to make her do something stupid to achieve that result.

I agree that I'm not sure Anna couldn't have helped Samuel out, just by virtue of being Anna... but her Omega effect would be counter productive in a case where Samuel wants to die and his wolf is keeping him alive, because Anna would make the wolf relax and bring Samuel more into the fore.  Just like Sam says.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 04:51:00 pm
I don't think Anna's ability to help is center around her Omega ability allot. Anna is the kind of person, if your hurting and need someone to talk to, she there's for you. Look, how she handle Charles problem, it wasn't her Omega ability that spotted the problem she saw developing between Charles and Bran, it was that human part of her.

Like she asked Bran, "How often does Charles argue or question an order from you?" Anna could had solve the problem with Sam, but Mercy was better suited for it, because she knew Sam and already why he tried to kill himself.

As for the Challenge, I would think and this is just a guess from reading the book. You would need to beat Warren first, Then you would need to beat Darryl second and finally you would get the big dog himself. You have to take out the next big dog in line to get a shot at the title.

Finally, those loyal to Adam after the fight would had called Bran and told him what happen. Paul broke that one rule about challenging your Alpha for control. You need the Marrok's okay first. So yes!, I can see the point you are making and Patty made, but Paul would had never had a chance to challenge Adam at all, unless he went through the top two(three) dogs first.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 04:56:44 pm
That would be a sensible way to have it set up, but Patty makes the rules... and from what I can tell, those aren't the rules.  Still, (and I think somewhere back in this thread I've said this before, actually...) Paul is pretty dumb if he thinks that even if he were to somehow magically beat Adam, he would live for longer than it takes Darryl or Warren to say "I challenge." Actually, I think that in the book itself, somewhere, Mercy figures out that must be Henry's plan:  Let Paul take the heat, and then, once the top dogs have all killed each other off, he's the next wolf in line, and he hasn't had to fight anybody to get there. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 07, 2010, 05:01:02 pm
Precisely.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 07, 2010, 06:18:01 pm
Paul would be crazy to think he could beat Adam whole...but Adam was injured and that's why he's a CAD and a Jerk! Paul challenged both of them AFTER they were hurt.....that's a coward and nobody wants to follow a coward.  I don't like him. :) LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 06:29:49 pm
 >D Fortunately Adam is awesomeness and can beat the crap out of him, even injured... and like I said, there's a whole line of wolves who would rip him to shreds if he ever did manage to kill Adam (and it would have to be a case of Adam almost dead already before that would happen, happily).
I have to admit, I was cheering for Adam killing Paul, and I was a bit disappointed that he survived the fight, but I guess Adam's a better man than I; also, it would be really boring if everyone in the Pack was lovable and liked everyone else.  So, sigh, we have to put up with annoyances for the sake of interest. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 07, 2010, 06:43:04 pm
I agree.  As long as my Ben is not one them! :) LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 06:45:36 pm
I think that it was brilliant the way Patty set the fight scene up. Having Mary Jo challenge Paul, which injured him enough that Adam could come in and be on equal grounds with him. Normally, I would say Adam could had taken Paul without a problem, but being injured like he was, Adam wouldn't had won. His injuries were to much.

Mary Jo even things up enough for the two of them to square off.

As for the fight between Mary Jo and Paul. I think she could had taken him, if she had more power behind her punches and if, she wasn't already injured from Henry's attack towards Mercy. I think given enough time, Mary Jo is going to be a really,really good fighter down the line.

Another thing I notice about the women in the book. Every woman so far, has had some sort of problem and the guys they mate with, has to deal with it.

Anna=being rape by her old pack and Charles having to help her through that.
Mercy=being rape by Tim, which was a plot device and Adam having to deal with that.
Auriele=being abused by her father and Samuel attacking her, and then healing her afterward.


 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 07, 2010, 06:48:00 pm
Auriele=being abused by her father and Samuel attacking her, and then healing her afterward.

Ariana, you mean?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 06:51:11 pm
I'm starting to like Ben and Warren so far is my next best person. I like Adam allot and I like Darryl as well. Honey is another one of my favorites along with Mercy. I really,really liked, how Patty describe Zee. I like his description the most.

He reminds me of the fae guys from Laurel K.Hamilton's other series with the fae guys in there.

Ben, I think would make a really good Alpha. Once he gets over his rudeness and ill manners. He still has allot to learn from Adam, but down the line. I can see him having his own pack.

Oopp's! Yep! Ariana. I'm sorry!, I must have been on the wrong page when I copy the name out of the book.

Ariana=being abused by her father and Samuel attacking her, and then healing her afterward.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 07, 2010, 06:52:22 pm
The Mary Jo/Paul fight allowed Adam a way to take down Paul without killing him. IMO, he would have won the fight no matter what his injuries were. He's that good. Like Adam said in the book, Paul has Mary Jo to thank for his life.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 06:59:32 pm
I agree.  As long as my Ben is not one them! :) LOL

I think that if someone killed Adam, Ben would be one of the first to jump in to kill that person/wolf.  Ben likes Adam, and nevermind that Ben isn't very dominant.
He has shown that he can react rashly on defense... remember how he jumped through the window (IK)?  Partly, at least in my opinion, because he was starting to care about Mercy, and although he doesn't really know how to express that effectively... I think if it was someone he didn't care about, he would have gone through the door.  Since he cared... the window was shorter, if a stupid choice.  

Regarding his suitability as alpha, ladylynx, you may want to check out the thread regarding dominance that some of this thread got clipped too.
http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=240.0 It has some of our debate regarding Ben's ability to move up in the pack.  

And I also have complete faith that Adam could have killed Paul, injured or not... and I believe him when he says that Mary Jo just slowed Paul down enough that Adam didn't have to kill him to beat him. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 07:05:31 pm
Adam is good and normally he would be able to, but his injuries really got him. However you are right in the sense that Paul has Mary jo to thank for his life. On page 243, The line from Mercy: "I kept my eye on Paul. That nerve strike of Mary Jo's..."

Then several lines down from that "Paul shook his head slowly and raised a hand to rub at his ear, avoiding the spot where he'd been struck. He blinked rapidly and seemed to be having trouble focusing."

I think Mary Jo did enough damage, that Adam could take him down in the shape he was in. Don't get me wrong, I love Adam, but when you have been burned like he was on his feet and hands. It takes a toll on you. Were-Wolf or not.

However in the end, Adam did beat the crap out of him and prove you don't mess with the Top Dog.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 07, 2010, 07:07:38 pm
Paul is an opportunist. Like his challenge with a wounded Warren he sees this a chance to get up in the ranks. I don't think he is a strategic thinker which most alphas you also need to be one. Its not always about brute strength or skill although that is useful and dominance its also out-thinking your opponent. Henry knew this and knew the pack was fractured partly by Mercy's introduction and also the fact a place was held open. Like Mercy mentioned who KNOWS the full in and outs of running a pack due to her living in the uber-packhold - senses that the release of tension and those challenges is better than Adam just going all dominant on the wolves.
Too many changes had happened and resentment which was helped by Henry's machinations. I think most of the pack-members who don't know Mercy will underestimate her in that regard but she's def taken Bran's tact in psychological warfare and she will be useful to Adam to psych out members - like the way she dealt with Mary-Jo.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 07, 2010, 07:10:37 pm
Here you go. ;)

Page 247. Adam leaned down to Paul. "That edge you lost in your fight with Mary Jo is what allowed me to take the time to find something that would hurt you--instead of kill you. You can thank her for your life."

He was hurt but in the end he's the Alpha. Paul didn't have a chance either way.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 07, 2010, 07:16:48 pm
Mary Jo's main problem, besides being killed and brought back to life was, She felt Mercy wasn't more feminine for him. She didn't fit the image of what type of mate Adam should have. Someone that was a movie star or model.

Plus, she had a crush on Adam as well and jealousy was rearing it's ugly head. She needs to over come her prejudice towards Warren as well. He has allot of respect for her and thinks of her as a friend.

I was getting the feeling that Mary Jo has finally started liking Mercy. Because of how she felt when she was searching for her.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 07:25:31 pm
Hopefully Mary Jo is starting to accept that Mercy is what Adam really wants, maybe what he really needs!, and that that is what is best for the Pack. 
It does seem that she's starting to accept the situation now.  I got the feeling that part of the reason she started to accept Mercy was that Mercy was A) straight up with her - no cowardly scavenger moves; B) the one who figured out that Mary Jo had been manipulated.  It's not a huge thing, but sometimes a little tiny step in the right direction, makes it easier to take a bigger step... and before you know it, you're friends! 

Speaking of Adam, you know what broke my heart a little? Where Adam thinks Mercy is scared of him and breaks her counter, and she can hear his grief in their mate bond... and then Sam comes to protect her from her own mate.   :-' Poor Adam! 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 07, 2010, 07:37:17 pm
I agree Kyria! Also with the  Mary-Jo thing is that the fact Adam fell for Mercy who is the opposite of the glamour puss which I think Christy was (similar to Leah too- bitter and jealous of the pack/others for her husband's affection.) In many ways for Mary-Jo this has to be a huge burr in her saddle because I doubt she even really believes that he needed a sophisticated mate. She relates to Mercy and I suspected she even liked her before she realised that their relationship was genuine and seeing that another tomboyish woman and add the fact that Mercy is a coyote peed her off.

That was a poignant scene- shows his ex really did a number on him I bet too especially add the fact that he's also dealing with the aftermath of the rape. I think he hasn't fully accepted or is afraid of his wolf's affect on those he loves. It's def a key scene but the funny thing is that Mercy has accepted the whole enchilada and she's not afraid of him but I think we will see that in future books - that scene in the end where she meets up with his wolf in the dream was telling and I think it will foretell that Adam will face this issue later.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 07, 2010, 08:06:47 pm
To me it ties back to that scene in Iron Kissed when Adam leaves because he thinks she's afraid of him, and Ben calls him back and says, "That stupid b**** has never had the brains to be afraid of you, me, or anyone else..." 
Mercy has her problems, but Adam is afraid that she's afraid of him.  I think you said it right when you said he's afraid of his wolf's affect on those he loves.  He's had a while to accept the fact that he is a werewolf... but he hasn't been able to reconcile his wolf with others outside his Pack. 
Hopefully Mercy's ability to accept him, and his wolf, despite the problems Tim caused, will sink in quickly. 

And I thought that Mary Jo was OK with Mercy in the beginning, too (Mercy liked her, she helped out at the garage when she had to play "guard the wimpy coyote" in BB)... until Mercy accepted Adam's offer... and then he brought her into the pack.  And that p***ed Mary Jo off to no end.  And then Mary Jo died and was brought back to life.  She's been way rattled recently.   
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Morgaine0000 on April 07, 2010, 11:07:09 pm

I think that if someone killed Adam, Ben would be one of the first to jump in to kill that person/wolf.
[/quote]
Yeah, I think if Adam had died, Bran would never have had to worry about doing anything to Paul and Henry.  Just cleaning up their dead bodies. 

I  think wolf-Sam would have gotten him first.  He would not have reacted well to Mercy's pain at losing Adam.    I actually think he would have jumped in before Adam was dead, because all those challenge rules are human rules not wolf rules.  I think he would have done it for Mercy, even if he would be killed for losing control.  Remember at the beginning, when he was still in human form? He and Mercy were discussing the bowling alley/quail incidents.  He was so protective of her.  And despite his humungous problems; he was still worried that someone tried to hurt her.

Failing that, I think Darryl would have immediately challenged Paul.  After all, Paul was the one who started the challenging-people-who-are-already hurt trend. 

And Darryl was already planning on killing Henry.  I don't think his threat was idle.

On MaryJo, I think she was really damaged by the death incident.  It sounds like she is still suffering from PTSD.   So, she was more vulnerable to manipulation than she should  have been.   It sounds like Henry was feeding her jealousy and paranoia at every opportunity. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 07, 2010, 11:13:44 pm
One point regarding Mary Jo's injury that wasn't addressed,
but I wish it had been, and maybe it should be in future. 
That's page 226 where Henry tried to kill Mercy, or injure
her very badly, outside the rules, where Mary Jo was injured. 
He should have been punished for trying to hit the Alpha's
mate to start with, and outside challenge rules in the second
place.  I hope someone remembers and beats the snot out of him for it.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Mike Briggs on April 08, 2010, 12:41:03 am
Actually, this is something I talked to Patty about.  It seems like the big bad wolves all just kissed and made up after the big fight.  It didn't seem right to me.   Patty's thinking is that, with the immediate crisis averted, it was better to let the pack heal for a short while, rather than have Adam execute his challenger. 

Henry is effectively being rejected by the pack even without Adam taking any official action (remember the big space around him at the end of the fight), and his prospects are pretty bleak.  I suspect Adam will make his expulsion official soon.  Bran may or may not allow him to be a lone wolf.  If not, he'll probably be executed.  Even if he can go lone wolf, he's in trouble. No pack means no protection -- does Henry seem mean enough to fight off the nasties of this world by himself?  He's easy pickings.  I'm not sure how many details are going to make it into print, but Henry's looking at a lot worse than the beating poor stupid Paul took.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 08, 2010, 05:10:42 am
At the end of SB, didn't Bran indicate that Henry had been pulled into the Marrok's pack for "rehabilitation"? (I don't think that was the word Bran used.)  So my take on it was that he had been not only kicked out of his own pack (Adam's pack), but also brought to heel like a naughty little puppy.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if he winds up being executed eventually.  That kind of conniving, etc. shouldn't be countenanced.  Maybe Bran can instill the fear of Bran in Henry and get him to watch his behavior, but I dunno...I feel doubtful that a person like Henry -- someone with Henry's character...or lack thereof -- can be "reformed." 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 08, 2010, 05:16:35 am
I agree.  As long as my Ben is not one them! :) LOL

I think that if someone killed Adam, Ben would be one of the first to jump in to kill that person/wolf.  He has shown that he can react rashly on defense... remember how he jumped through the window (IK)?   

Ben has been Adam's defender since the very first book.  Remember near the end of Moon Called, after Samuel and Mercy rescued Adam and Jesse?  There's a big fight and Ben leaps up and intercepts a bullet that was intended for Adam. 

My take on Ben is that he takes Pack VERY seriously.  Maybe it's because of his upbringing and experiences at the hand of whoever abused him.  Maybe Pack provides a home that he didn't have before...a safe place that he didn't have before.  But he seems devoted to Pack and especially to Adam (and to Mercy).

I wish that Patty would give us a short story or something that provided more background on Ben.  He's definitely one of my favorite characters in the series.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 08, 2010, 05:21:23 am
I bet Ben's story will come out eventually in the next books. At least, I'm hoping. I'm just as curious to know more about his history. A short story would be good too.  :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 08, 2010, 05:41:33 am
I can see Henry starting trouble with the Aspen Creek pack, especially since he has shown to be a pretty vindictive and bitter to the wolves who trust him. But maybe Bran can get through to him - although he underestimated Bran's affect as well even though he may have twisted the rules to his own ends but I don't think we will see the last of him.

I agree about Ben- made me laugh out loud when he repeated the rules to the rest of the pack lol - last person I expected to memorise and state the rules during the challenge :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 08, 2010, 05:47:22 am
I know!  LOL I loved that part! Ben is fabulous!

I agree, we have not seen the last of Henry, but I have a feeling he will never not be invited back into Adam's pack.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 06:08:45 am
I don't have time to reply to all this! I"m going to get FIRED! LOL
I love Ben...I think he's great and he's a character with ALOT of room to grow and mature.
I too think he would be a great Alpha...these guys live a loooong time...he can learn and grow and move up the ladder...he doens't have to stay at the bottom forever...things change and the Wolf adapts.
I agree, I think he takes pack very seriuosly, and he likes Warren remember? because Warren cares about the pack and that is not always the case with the "upper class" ( paraphrasing here)

On a second note: I love the way he can be funny and witty.  For example when they were talking about Mercy being Adam's 'arm candy" he snorts or something along those lines and says, " Honeys arm candy....you, well you're just you"  hilarious!

I"m sure if I got any or all parts of this wrong...someone will correct me! LOLOLOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 08, 2010, 07:13:12 am
I still don't think Ben could be Alpha.  In either A&O or Cry Wolf, Charles tells Anna that she was born Omega (even when she was human), just like his dad was born very Alpha... the Change just gave him more tools to work with.  That to me reads as, people have a certain level of dominance.  A range, perhaps... but the lowest level dominant in the Pack is never going to be able to be Alpha.  He has a lot of growing to do, yes... but I don't think he can just gain enough dominance to become Alpha. 

But, I guess we can just agree to disagree on this point. 

As for Henry, I would totally not cry if Bran had to execute him.  Not at all. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 07:33:27 am
I forgot about that! good point! damn!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 07:53:46 am
Thank you for the answer about Henry, Mr. Mike. 
My opinion is that, of his own, Henry would be a bit like Chastel or Arthur from "Hunting Ground", not a natural strong leader, but one who takes and keeps the lead by sneakily assassinating those better than himself.
I also, in looking at this:
Quote
Bran may or may not allow him to be a lone wolf.  If not, he'll probably be executed.  Even if he can go lone wolf, he's in trouble. No pack means no protection -- does Henry seem mean enough to fight off the nasties of this world by himself?  He's easy pickings.  I'm not sure how many details are going to make it into print, but Henry's looking at a lot worse than the beating poor stupid Paul took.
And have the evil thought "Stalking goat."  Hang him out as bait for the "The Most Dangerous Game" hunters, like they thought was after Adam.  Somebody will get him eventually, and it will be no loss.  Either that, or it will drive home to him what pack is supposed to be about, and why he needs to support his pack leader, and it ain't him.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Jax on April 08, 2010, 08:20:55 am
I still don't think Ben could be Alpha.  In either A&O or Cry Wolf, Charles tells Anna that she was born Omega (even when she was human), just like his dad was born very Alpha... the Change just gave him more tools to work with.  That to me reads as, people have a certain level of dominance.  A range, perhaps... but the lowest level dominant in the Pack is never going to be able to be Alpha.  He has a lot of growing to do, yes... but I don't think he can just gain enough dominance to become Alpha. 
I agree with this. And it makes the rules for challenge make sense too. Not a good idea to let someone who isn't Alpha enough to control the pack be able to challenge for that spot.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 08:24:31 am
If Ben was a little more damaged, he could be a submissive, is my reading of his personality.  Not Alpha material at all.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 08:26:47 am
So, the damages wolves are always submissive????
maybe pain makes them stronger, no?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 08, 2010, 08:31:25 am
I think with Ben with time and healing he can rise up in the ranks but i doubt he is Alpha material or even highly dominant - for alphas/dominant werewolves they have that extra force of ooomphiness I think.
But sometimes if your a werewolf its probably a better chance of survival to be part of a well run pack and to be placed low in the ranks.

The interesting thing about the fallout of Henry and the female status in the ranks is the wider implications it has to other packs. There was a mention due to Warren's acceptance other packs are now accepting gay werewolves. I can see some alphas/packmembers who are mated to dominant or non dominant females will be peed off about this.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 08:35:42 am
So, if Honey is unamted and ranked lowest....can a wolf from another pack woo her? or does it have to be from Adam's pack? Maybe she could meet a "higher" ranking wolf but not really an Alpha from another pack and mate with him and leave Adams pack? How would that work?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 08:50:02 am
Honey is married to submissive wolf Peter.
Mary Jo is unmated.  The tough part is the meeting wolves from either packs; there is a great deal of protocol and even paperwork involved in traveling to another pack's territory.  Well, maybe not so much for wolves who are in packs, although there would be protocol, but for lone wolves, do you remember the BS David had to go through in "Star of David", to deal with the issue his daughter had?  And of course, Bran and Charles don't have to go through that.
But for Mary Jo to meet werewolves outside her pack, there is going to have to be something special going on, and the possessiveness of dominant werewolves will make it very difficult, unless that wolf agrees to change packs.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 08, 2010, 09:39:58 am
We have a lot of Ben speculation not related to Silver Borne. Let's shift that to his thread:

The Weres > Mercy Thompson Series > Series Comments > What About Ben? (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=888.0)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 08, 2010, 10:10:44 am
After the hubby read the fight scene, he was confused about who was who between Peter and Paul. Which led to such a fun little couples row... And I had the darndest time explaining Henry was dating Mary Jo, not Peter - who is married to Honey.  9)

He did point out something I hadn't noticed, and I wondered if it was intentional. He mentioned the amount of biblical names in this series: Adam, Samuel, Ben, Gabriel, Leah, Daniel, Anna... and my favorite trio: Peter, Paul, and Mary.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 10:14:35 am
There are two reasons it may be intentional; Patty is quietly a good member of her church, and many of these characters, werewolves who have lived beyond the "ten year lifespan" are from eras when most people had names from the bible, and some that aren't, like Gabriel, are from Catholic families.  Anna has been a favorite, in various forms, since Biblical times; I seem to recall having heard that Mary's mother was named that?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Nifty on April 08, 2010, 10:21:11 am
He mentioned the amount of biblical names in this series: Adam, Samuel, Ben, Gabriel, Leah, Daniel

Ha!  I hadn't noticed that.  It's like Seven Brides for Seven Brothers!  :P
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 10:23:34 am
I love that movie!

Okay, back to Silver Borne.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 08, 2010, 10:34:02 am
I believe that is right, about Anna. The era of the werewolves makes sense as well in the namings. I think etymology is interesting.

My favorite is Hauptman and its meaning of: status name for a headman, leader, or captain, from Middle High German. So appropriate.

I like the thought that goes into the character names in this series. Which is why I figured the biblical names were intentional on Patty's part.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 10:45:03 am
Okay,  I need some help here.

When Patty is describing Adam.  And she uses the term Slavic and dusty....as adjectives. I don't understand what those mean? How exactly is he supposed to look? Do those words mean "dark featured" As in having an olive complexion?  This sounds stupid I know....but it's just bugged the heck out of me!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 08, 2010, 10:49:25 am
Slavic peoples are classified geographically and linguistically into West Slavic (including Czechs, Moravians, Poles, Slovaks and Sorbs), East Slavic (including Belarusians, Russians and Ukrainians)[8], and South Slavic (including Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs and Slovenes).

Dusty translates to me as darker complexion. Brown hair, brown eyes. Maybe tan skinned.

I find this post  (http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/single/?p=375461&t=1836156) shows various Slavic types. And this Ukranian footballer  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andriy_Shevchenko) is Slavic, in my opinion.

*shrugs* Hard to say, that's my opinion.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 11:16:15 am
Well, in that case...in my mind Adam looks like a Hugh Jackman....very very yummy!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 11:19:58 am
Wolverine, we have 2 threads for Dream cast of Mercy's world characters.
This one is not for posting on, it's a compilation of suggestions & links to pictures of them:  http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=140.0

This one is for discussion and presenting new suggestions: 
http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=110.0
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 08, 2010, 11:59:56 am
Awesome! thanks Patti L.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ppbwashu on April 08, 2010, 01:12:47 pm
@ Patti, Jesus' grandmother's name was Anne.  Good memory, there! O)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 01:20:26 pm
If it was written and impressed me, I usually remember it after some fashion.

Silver Borne - I wonder if they put the book & power sink back together?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 08, 2010, 01:26:03 pm
Seems like it would be dumb to leave the Silver Borne just sitting out where any lunatic could grab it.  So I'm guessing they re-enchanted it into the book. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 01:29:09 pm
Oh, they wouldn't have just left it sitting on the counter, but I'm thinking in terms of disguising it as something else instead, maybe even doing something sneaky like using it to draw the magic out of some fae who has to be imprisoned for some reason.  >D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 08, 2010, 01:32:04 pm
Maybe they will... but I guess my thought is that it didn't seem like they had any intentions for it at that moment, and the way to store it until they came up with something else to do with it, would be to put it back in the book. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 01:35:06 pm
Most likely; but if one Fae knew to look there for it, another might too.

I just re-read a bit and noticed something interesting; Tad doesn't seem to think of himself specifically as fae.  He says, on page 136 "Some of them could eat their own children..."
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 08, 2010, 01:39:39 pm
Interesting observation.  I wonder if he's referring to his half-human status, of if he's just referring to a certain subset (the older fae, certain more malicious fae, a certain fae in particular, or even just, "some, but not my dad or me") without going into specifics, or maybe a little of both. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 01:46:19 pm
Well, he keeps saying "they" throughout the paragraph.  I think it's that "Half breed, that's all I ever heard; both sides were against me since the day I was born" thing; he's like Spock, neither one thing nor the other, purely himself, with ties to both worlds, but not accepted in either.  So he does not think of himself as either, and accepts, however reluctantly, that anyone not in the same situation with him he's a 'them' instead of an 'us'.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: dee on April 08, 2010, 05:09:34 pm
just finished the book..... :-'..........no matter hw much i stretched it it came to an end

thought's on it...i thought it was awesome!!!!!!.....didn't want it end...

though i did think the ending was kinda rushed. not that am not a fan of mercy and adam...they are in my top five......but i kinda thought the end will kinda of be more her and sam talking things out...maybe because it was said the book will be mainly about sam and he will suffer (not the word exactly used) so i pictured the book in a different way....i don't know but sam was a somewhat in the background to me...just like the other books....we did learn more of his background but we always learn a new thing in the other books too.......the book was more focused on adam and mercy's relationship...(which am glad they have matured into it by the way).....
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Australian Emm on April 08, 2010, 06:45:29 pm
I really hope the next book (and I am aware that its meant to be about Walkers, WOO HOO!) But as a loving Samuel fan, it'd be great to see more about Samuel and Ari's relationship, no need to write a book about it, short story would fill in a few gaps, but just in the way the author does it SO well in every other book, just to give an insight into their devolpment. And children, oh gosh can you not see that delightful chapter coming? :) Happiness!  :)
As to Mercy and Adam and a wedding, time.... plenty of time and even though Adam is 'ye ole fashion' a mating bond should over rate a wedding, isn't that just more for show?   ???
Just a thought, remember Kara Beckworth, and although she's NOT an Omega, but has kinda Omega ish behaviour, and because Patty said she's be back in the series, wouldn't she be just perfect for Ben? Like as she got older, with the fact that Ben isn't getting any older. They'd help each other heal and be happy, maybe...   LOL
 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 08, 2010, 06:52:40 pm
I don't think Kara is an omega- I think from the sounds of it that she might be pretty dominant because she survived the change especially at such a young age. Maybe she's alpha material? :D

But back on the wedding- I think Adam's human side and Mercy too for that matter I think will like to tie the knot sooner than later but due to the pack tensions and other events slowed things down. Also I suspect that they wont be having a quiet wedding LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 08, 2010, 06:55:03 pm
 LOL LOL LOL

dove/werewolf wedding  LOL
I can't wait to see it!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 06:55:47 pm
Hmm.  Mating bond is great for werewolves, but doesn't cut it for legal purposes.  If Mercy were hospitalized, or even had children and died, Adam would have no rights to see her or deal with the children without the wedding.  So yes, it is needed.

And were did you get "Kara Beckworth, and although she's NOT an Omega, but has kinda Omega-ish behavior"?  I never saw that.  Where do I need to re-read?  (always glad for the excuse.)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 07:33:34 pm
*pats Has on the head*  have a cookie.

I liked Mercy gauging Zee's level of irritation by what age of German he's using.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 08, 2010, 07:39:37 pm
It's a useful skill to have - being able to tell Zee's mood without actually having to engage him yourself. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Australian Emm on April 08, 2010, 07:41:47 pm
And were did you get "Kara Beckworth, and although she's NOT an Omega, but has kinda Omega-ish behavior"?  I never saw that.  Where do I need to re-read?  (always glad for the excuse.)
Its in one of the comment sections, well I think it is....
http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1861.0
That should be the one?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 08, 2010, 07:42:46 pm
Lol, Zee and his variations of German was hilarious!

I love Zee  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Morgaine0000 on April 08, 2010, 07:52:50 pm
I think Henry is still alive because Bran wants to keep the bodycount down now that the wolves are public. I bet he he is fairly low dominance wise in Bran's pack too.   Once everyone realizes that someone is a conniver; that skill is a lot less useful.       
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2010, 07:54:58 pm
And were did you get "Kara Beckworth, and although she's NOT an Omega, but has kinda Omega-ish behavior"?  I never saw that.  Where do I need to re-read?  (always glad for the excuse.)
Its in one of the comment sections, well I think it is....
http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1861.0
That should be the one?
Ah; well I read it, and there is the answer from Patty Briggs:
Quote
Kara is not an Omega -- that's really part of who she is, not something very changeable.  

Oh, Morgaine, you just gave me the most horrible vision of him scheming with Leah!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 08, 2010, 07:56:40 pm
That I could see- especially if he's good at seeing into the cracks and there are a few in Bran's pack but then he will be suicidal if he does try anything like that.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 08, 2010, 08:00:34 pm
I can see him scheming with Leah too, but he will definitely not be the one in charge. He'll be the one who is tricked into idiotic behaviour that gets him kiiled.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Australian Emm on April 08, 2010, 08:02:38 pm
That I could see- especially if he's good at seeing into the cracks and there are a few in Bran's pack but then he will be suicidal if he does try anything like that.

But thats an evil character thing to do, even when they hit rock bottom they just keep on digging, thats what makes them so evil! And scheming.....   
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: SilverWolf on April 09, 2010, 08:02:21 am
Hi, new to the forums *waves*

I finished Silver Borne earlier this week (in fact, I started reading it late Saturday afternoon and finished it early Sunday afternoon - not even 24 hours - I paid for it the next day at work *lol*)

I really enjoyed it. I know some were hoping for even more insight into Samuel, but considering the books are from Mercy's P.O.V. I think we got a good taste of him.

I do agree that, initially, I thought the whole thing with Ari was quite sudden, but as others have said - there's the 'missing month' to take into account, and I also agree that it might be nice to see that missing month as a little short story (even just something posted online on her site or something).

I did find myself doing the double take where Mercy mentioned meeting Anna. However, I have a possible scenario for that that might work (unless we get told otherwise). After finishing Silver Borne I decided to go back and re-read the series from the beginning just to see if some of the revelations in Silver Borne held up (i.e. Mercy calling Samuel 'Sam' when his wolf is more at the forefront). I just finished Blood Bound yesterday and hit something. Towards the end Mercy mentions how Adam wanted her to stay at his house but that:

". . . he had half the local pack, part of the Montana pack, and Kyle staying at his house."

Blood Bound takes place after the Wolves have come out (so obviously Charles and Anna are already mated), plus earlier in the book it's mentioned that Bran knows the dangerous effect a demon would have on a wolf's control. It makes sense to me that Bran would then be taking precautions in coming to the Tri-Cities to help deal with the demon and would bring his Omega in case things got really hairy (um, no pun intended  :P). So perhaps it's during this period of time that Mercy met Anna?

Also, I have to say, I had a very weird mental picture when reading Mercy's description of meeting Anna in that she didn't roll over and expose her belly when she met her. I picture Anna in the middle of a room surrounded by a bunch of werewolves (meaning at least a dozen or more) in wolf form, all sprawled out on their backs, tongues hanging out just waiting for a belly rub or something  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 09, 2010, 08:07:45 am
O_o  And since they're 90% male...  Charles glowering in the background?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 09, 2010, 08:47:50 am
 LOL Charles. 
Well, as long as she isn't scared of them, they will probably all live. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on April 09, 2010, 01:13:50 pm
I like that reasoning silverwolf, makes sense. :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 09, 2010, 02:56:49 pm
yes, it does. Nice job of deductive reasoning SilverWolf!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 10, 2010, 04:27:34 am
Hi guys, I've moved the walker talk and speculation here:

The Weres > Mercy Thompson Series > Series Comments > Walker Speculation (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=137.0)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: wolverine on April 12, 2010, 11:37:21 am
I have a question. It has probably been discussed in depth here before but I don't read the boards everyday.  If Samuel is a lone wolf, how would he be able to have a mate? and they not be included in a pack? don't all the females have to belong to a pack?  A little random, I know. :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 12, 2010, 11:41:43 am
He would be kind of stuck for a female werewolf mate, but that doesn't seem to be where things are going for him.  Human spouses or even mates are irrelevant to pack issues, as far as I know.  Which, again, doesn't seem to apply here.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: dee on April 13, 2010, 02:12:53 pm
Here's a question that's been on my mind...is it possible ariana is some sort of fay beserker...not like bran but similar when she has her panic attack.....?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 13, 2010, 03:36:31 pm
Mmmm!!, I don't think so. She just let's her panic attacks rule her and that's, why she does so much damage. Her emotions are thrown off form the attacks.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Readsalot on April 14, 2010, 12:41:00 pm
I thought I'd try asking this again since no one replied to my first post on the subject.  If the Silver Borne sucks all your magic out/prevents you from having any, then wouldn't this mean if a wolf "owned" it they would not be able to change? Couldn't female werewolves use the silver borne to carry babies to term?

I also think they should have used Mercy's mother to find her since Ari couldn't use Adam. She would have lead them straight to her. Then we could have seen a conversation about churches, doves and werewolves, lol, after she shot someone with her pink glock of course!!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 14, 2010, 12:44:25 pm
Just re-read, page 270:  "He required that she build an abomination -- an artifact that would consume the fae magic of his enemies and give it back to him."

So this artifact, "the Silver Borne", would not work against werewolves, witches, Walkers, or other types of magicals.  Can't be used to help female werewolves have babies, can't hold Mercy, shouldn't attack her kind of magic, wouldn't help against more black witches.  Only Fae.  Unless it's morphed in yet another way; and even then I'd tend to expect it would be fae oriented.

-- Funny, Readsalot; I started out typing this the same time you did yours, and had to stop to read your post, which it looks as though I'm answering specifically; I just found it and went "ah-hah!  That is a good point!"
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Readsalot on April 14, 2010, 03:46:51 pm
Just re-read, page 270:  "He required that she build an abomination -- an artifact that would consume the fae magic of his enemies and give it back to him."

So this artifact, "the Silver Borne", would not work against werewolves, witches, Walkers, or other types of magicals.  Can't be used to help female werewolves have babies, can't hold Mercy, shouldn't attack her kind of magic, wouldn't help against more black witches.  Only Fae.  Unless it's morphed in yet another way; and even then I'd tend to expect it would be fae oriented.

Well dang, I missed the "fae" only bit. That's really to bad, I could think of all kinds of good ways to use something that eats magic.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 14, 2010, 04:01:57 pm
I agree; I was hoping it would be a way around the fertility issue for about 4 werewolves every 3 years.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 14, 2010, 04:03:31 pm
Just as well.  Then you'd be right back at females can't fight in challenges.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 14, 2010, 04:04:18 pm
Just as well.  Then you'd be right back at females can't fight in challenges.
Agreed!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 14, 2010, 04:15:47 pm
They can if they're not one of the 4.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 14, 2010, 04:18:24 pm
Yes, but now you're back at the pack needing to protect their few child-bearing (at least potentially so) members.  With the long lifespans, every female could potentially be a mother, if the silver borne worked that way.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 14, 2010, 04:18:50 pm
But there's still the potential that they could be one of the four in the future, and I'm betting that's the angle male werewolves will take.

And they outnumber the girls.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 14, 2010, 04:23:50 pm
It only steals the magic for the time the person "owns" it; they can fight the other however many decades they live.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 14, 2010, 04:26:36 pm
Well, but that's what I mean.  Even if a female doesn't "own" it right at this time, the packs would want to protect her because she might "own" it some time down the road.  Potentially, all females could own it at some point in their very long lives, and therefore, all females are potential childbearers, and so you're back at the pack protecting their limited number of childbearing members.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on April 14, 2010, 04:34:47 pm
I imagine many of them wouldn't care, as long as they got their chance at having a child.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 14, 2010, 04:36:52 pm
Some would, some wouldn't.  I just like the way the story's going now.  More potential for conflict.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 14, 2010, 04:37:56 pm
More potential for conflict.
:D

(I like where the story is going now, too.)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on April 14, 2010, 04:51:36 pm
I could totally see all the women werewolves fighting over the Silver Bourne though. Wouldn't that be an amusing scene.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 14, 2010, 04:52:34 pm
I couldn't see Bran or any alpha allowing it.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Josi on April 14, 2010, 04:55:34 pm
I loved Silver Borne.  I can't wait to see if Bran's telepathy is growing or if it was a one time thing.  In Alpha and Omega there is a lot stressing that Bran can only send and not recieve.  When he was first talking to Mercy he said that he was going to be able to show her things but she wouldnt be able to respond.  Only then after that he recieved that she was upset, which he thought was interesting.  I'm excited to see more of that.  I love that Sam will have a lady.  I am having a hard time remembering that he is old too and she is Fa ;De... dont know why but somthing about her being grandmothery then altering her looks and dating sam.. hard for me.  :-whistle Trying.  I over all LOVED the book. Dying for more!!!!! What to do till March 2011.... bOuNcY
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 14, 2010, 05:31:53 pm
I am having a hard time remembering that he is old too and she is Fa ;De... dont know why but somthing about her being grandmothery then altering her looks and dating sam.. hard for me.
Maybe that's why I have a hard time really accepting Ariana.  She is first portrayed as being old, and even though I know Sam is, actually, old (seemingly nearly as old as she is herself? but the fae aren't necessarily constrained to thinking of time the way we do, so... well anyway) I think of him as young.  Sure, her appearance is just glamour... and they're both immortal... but it will take a while to reconcile them in my mind as being a couple. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 14, 2010, 08:07:44 pm
Page 271, Ariana & Samuel taking turns telling the story of how they met & the SB was created:  "Truth belongs to no one," Samuel told her.  "Ariana's father visited a witch because his magic was insufficient to work his will."  There was something in his voice that made me think that he knew and hated that witch.

To me, this is a strong indicator that it might have been his grandmother.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: dee on April 15, 2010, 01:32:35 am
I really don't see the problem with ariana...maybe because I'm used to having it at the back of my mind that fae's are always in a glamour that helps them fit in...I think the problem some people are having with it might be that it's sam we are used to him from all the former books and as having the attitude of a young guy...and maybe along the way pictured who he will end up with befitting the way we viewed him...bt giving time we will get to know more about ariana..that being said..I have another question and this may have been discussed somwhere but can't werewolves have surrogates? Or is it more than the change that affects the babies?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 15, 2010, 07:05:20 am
That is on the "Werewolves and children" thread.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pfefferminztee on April 15, 2010, 08:32:04 am
Page 271, Ariana & Samuel taking turns telling the story of how they met & the SB was created:  "Truth belongs to no one," Samuel told her.  "Ariana's father visited a witch because his magic was insufficient to work his will."  There was something in his voice that made me think that he knew and hated that witch.

To me, this is a strong indicator that it might have been his grandmother.

That is exactly what I thought, too.

Moreover, may it be that Bran and Sam are the first werewolves ever made into existence?
There is this line '...he (Ari's father) wanted to call his hounds. But they had strayed too far for him to influence. He got something quite different.' - 'Werewolves.'
Somehow it seems to me that there is a hidden meaning in this line and the whole story, something about Sam's and Bran's past that hasn't been disclosed yet.

And did I mention, that I loved, loved LOVED the scene, when Mercy shot Henry? Best scene in the book. :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 15, 2010, 08:36:31 am
Great insight on Samuel and Bran, Pfefferminztee.

The Henry scene is one of my favorites as well! I high fived the air when she did that!  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 15, 2010, 08:39:39 am
That would be interesting if they were the first ones!

And Henry totally deserved being shot, I loved it  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 15, 2010, 08:52:41 am
I think it was established that Bran's mother used a werewolf to Change both Bran and Samuel, so I don't think they could be the very first.  (In Cry Wolf.)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on April 15, 2010, 08:57:05 am
Oh that's right. I need to read Cry Wolf again  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Josi on April 15, 2010, 09:45:21 am
It was said in Cry Wolf that Bran's Mother used her "pet" werewolf to change Him and Sam. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 15, 2010, 09:52:20 am
Oh that's right. I need to read Cry Wolf again  :D

Me too!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 15, 2010, 10:16:41 am
I am with the group that Bran and Sam and the 'witch' is their mother/grandmother. I also suspect the original werewolf was the first human/beast/hound hybrid that the witch created.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 15, 2010, 10:18:10 am
I am also under the impression that the witch is Sam's grandmother. The way it was phrased, it seemed personal to him.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 15, 2010, 11:24:30 am
I just think the timing is off for it to be Bran's mother. I got the impression that Bran had a pack here when they attacked Ari. To me it seems that after Sam killed the fae hounds that came back for Ari he and Bran then went after the black witch. Just cleaning house. The Cornicks have a long history of hating witches that stems from Bran's mother.

From when I read it, it seemed that Sam was with Ari for quite a while healing her...time enough for them to fall in love. I just don't see either Bran or Sam being able to resist the call of the Cornick witch for that long. Then when they get back she tries to force Bran to kill Sam which causes Bran to go Berserker for years?

I think that after the Ari incident, Sam and Bran left for North America, which is why Ari could never find Sam again. Who knows though. Maybe Patty will take pity on us one day and let us know for sure. Wouldn't be the first time that one of my theories was wrong.  :P Right now I just can't wrap my head around it but I'm looking forward to everyone's theories that they bring into the mix.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Jax on April 15, 2010, 11:29:38 am
I am with the group that Bran and Sam and the 'witch' is their mother/grandmother. I also suspect the original werewolf was the first human/beast/hound hybrid that the witch created.
That was my interpretation. Because wasn't Bran's mother the one that got them turned into werewolves in the first place?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 15, 2010, 11:33:48 am
LOL Elle - Hey I was the one who thought the bounty hunter was going to be Sam's mate! :D

But I think the way the story was told and the personal way that Sam felt about the witch makes me think its his grandmother.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Letitia on April 15, 2010, 11:37:32 am
LOL Elle - Hey I was the one who thought the bounty hunter was going to be Sam's mate! :D

Now that would have been hilarious if it were true!  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 15, 2010, 11:48:54 am
I just think the timing is off for it to be Bran's mother. I got the impression that Bran had a pack here when they attacked Ari. To me it seems that after Sam killed the fae hounds that came back for Ari he and Bran then went after the black witch. Just cleaning house. The Cornicks have a long history of hating witches that stems from Bran's mother.

From when I read it, it seemed that Sam was with Ari for quite a while healing her...time enough for them to fall in love. I just don't see either Bran or Sam being able to resist the call of the Cornick witch for that long. Then when they get back she tries to force Bran to kill Sam which causes Bran to go Berserker for years?

I think that after the Ari incident, Sam and Bran left for North America, which is why Ari could never find Sam again. Who knows though. Maybe Patty will take pity on us one day and let us know for sure. Wouldn't be the first time that one of my theories was wrong.  :P Right now I just can't wrap my head around it but I'm looking forward to everyone's theories that they bring into the mix.

I just figured that Bran's mother was controlling the Pack via Bran.  The way I worked it out is: Bran, Sam, and their Pack, controlled by "Granny Cornick" are loaned out to Ari's dad.  Bran is starting to resist the witch's control, and he kills Ari's dad.  The witch takes over again...
1. and tries to force Bran to kill Sam... maybe to use Sam's death to increase her hold on Bran

OR

2. really... the theory that they broke free because Bran was ordered to kill Sam was pure speculation on Charles's part.  From Bran's comments, I wondered if he didn't mean that he figured Charles was the only one the Berserker either wouldn't or couldn't kill... that Charles might be able to kill Bran instead, but Bran couldn't see anyone else having a chance.  So, instead of breaking free by being ordered to kill Sam, Bran has already started to break free of the witch's hold, and now he manages to get free completely.  

...Bran kills the witch and goes and lives in the woods and kills anything that gets near him...

1.  Samuel hangs out with Bran, the only living thing the Berserker doesn't destroy, and meanwhile, Ari's dad's hounds sometimes find her again, even without orders.  After Bran regains control, Samuel and he split up.  Sam, needing to atone for hurting Ariana, goes to hunt down the fae hounds and heal Ari.  Bran goes off to be a harper.  
 OR
2.  Samuel divides his time between nursing Ari and trying to bring Bran back under control, but eventually Ari's fear of werewolves convinces him to leave.  He promised to come back if she needed him, remember.  Either during this time, or later, Sam hunts down the fae hounds that hurt her.  
OR
3.  Samuel is still with Ariana when Bran breaks free and kills the witch.  This allows Sam to stop hurting Ari and start healing her (and hunt down and kill the fae hounds); until he realizes that Bran has lost it completely and he has to go deal with that situation... besides which Ariana is still afraid of werewolves, including him.  
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 15, 2010, 12:47:52 pm
From how I read it the black witch didn't have anything to do with the werewolves at all. They just happened to be caught in the web of beast magic that Ari's father threw out to capture the fae hounds. Right place at the wrong time.

I didn't read it as Sam hunting down the fae hounds rather the fae hounds coming to hunt down Ari. Sam is still nursing Ari when they come back into the area and are snagged by the magic web and go to attack her, Sam had hidden his werewolf nature from Ari during her healing and after he killed the fae hounds he left the region. I think perhaps because he couldn't face what he'd done to her, I also think maybe he thought that she'd hate him knowing that he was a werewolf, she did look for him but couldn't find him after that.

My one little voice of contention.  LOL Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Allannah on April 15, 2010, 12:50:08 pm
That was my general take on it as well ....
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 15, 2010, 12:51:57 pm
I didn't read it as Sam hunting down the fae hounds rather the fae hounds coming to hunt down Ari. Sam is still nursing Ari when they come back into the area and are snagged by the magic web and go to attack her, Sam had hidden his werewolf nature from Ari during her healing and after he killed the fae hounds he left the region. I think perhaps because he couldn't face what he'd done to her, I also think maybe he thought that she'd hate him knowing that he was a werewolf, she did look for him but couldn't find him after that.
I agree with this part. 
But, we shall have to agree to disagree on the identity of the witch.  You have a valid hypothesis... I just don't agree with it. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 15, 2010, 12:56:33 pm
No worries. I don't agree with yours either. ;)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 15, 2010, 01:07:22 pm
My opinion is somewhere in between.  I'm thinking it's like this.
The Forest Lord loses contact with his hounds.  He can't use them to torment Ari any more to try to force her to finish the abomination.  
He makes the compact with the witch, and (if it is Granny Cornick) she's got her enslaved pack including Bran & Samuel close enough that she can keep control of them, she thinks.
She gives the boost to the Forest Lord to call his hounds, but they're too far away.
Instead, the captive pack reacts, coming to the call.
The attack on Ari commences, but the insertion of the Forest Lord's call into the bond between the werewolves and the witch is enough that the bond can at last be broken between Bran & his mother.
The shift in his mental structure causes him to go a little loony - she (for whatever reason) orders him to attack Samuel.  
Maybe because Samuel is already protecting Ari, and the witch decides she can get the Abomination/Silver Borne herself, and orders Bran to continue the attack, even against Samuel, and that's when he finally kills her, & participates in eating her.
Bran runs off to his wilderness, leaving Samuel & the rest of the pack, if there is any left, to cope with the mess.
It sort of cements his berserker persona, and even Samuel can't get through to him, when he finally leaves Ariana with the promise/threat.
Samuel devotes the next century or so in trying to re-civilize Bran, eventually succeeding, at which point they gather a further pack and emigrate, possibly after some time (for whatever reason) in the court of King Arthur.

So, there's my scenario, just for fun.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 15, 2010, 01:13:57 pm
Ohh Patti I think I agree although I suspect that Granny Cornick actually created the first werewolf when the Forrest Lord came to her for help. I don't think Bran or Sam was the first but they were next when she saw the potential of tapping into the pack bonds. I think the Lord showed her how werewolves could be created and experimented on a human. Also another thing - Sam knew how to create and tap into Mercy's strength without blood/magic ceremony and I think that is a key thing which is why evil Granny Cornick wanted to latch into.

Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 15, 2010, 04:28:30 pm
LOL Elle - Hey I was the one who thought the bounty hunter was going to be Sam's mate! :D



Seriously?!  LOL LOL LOL




*************************NOTE**********************


Over at the Kelley Armstrong board (http://www.kelleyarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?), Silver Borne is the May selection for their book club. It runs all month, pop in whenever you have a minute and add your two cents worth. Patty will be joining us at some point during the month :) I'll be leading the discussion.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 15, 2010, 04:30:10 pm
Has, this made me laugh:
Quote
I think the Lord showed her
  My first thought was "God was in the story? How did I miss that?"  :D :D :D Yes, I need to read more carefully :P
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: CarolKat on April 15, 2010, 04:31:41 pm
LOL Elle - Hey I was the one who thought the bounty hunter was going to be Sam's mate! :D



Seriously?!  LOL LOL LOL

And I fell into it right with her especially after Mr. Mike hinted on smexy bounty hunter.  LOL LOL LOL

I guess I need to read more carefully too!  LOL LOL LOL



*************************NOTE**********************


Over at the Kelley Armstrong board (http://www.kelleyarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?), Silver Borne is the May selection for their book club. It runs all month, pop in whenever you have a minute and add your two cents worth. Patty will be joining us at some point during the month :) I'll be leading the discussion.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Crescent on April 18, 2010, 09:17:46 am
I am a huge Adam fan.  I just have to write some of my favorite of his lines...

"Whatever you need.  Whatever I can do."

"You could be happy all the time, and move with me"

"Don't lie to me, Mercy.  Not to me.  No lies between us."

"It will be alright.  I won't hurt her."

"If I survive, Mary Jo, we'll have to come up with a suitable reparation for the bowling alley.  You ruined a very promising evening, and I won't forget about it."

"Trust you to bring a gun to a fistfight."

"And there you were inside of me, just where you belonged."

"Such a small thing to cause so much trouble."

Just thought I would share.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 18, 2010, 05:05:10 pm

"Such a small thing to cause so much trouble."


Didn't Boromir say that about the One Ring in the Fellowship of the Rings movie? 


OK, actually:
I like the ambiguity of this line as to whether it refers to the Silver Borne, or his coyote.  Probably both. 

Good Adam lines overall, though.  We should put up character one-liners in the character profiles, or a thread for them, or something. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 18, 2010, 05:09:58 pm
We used to have a thread in "Whatever" with sarcastic or serious fatherly advice from/for werewolves.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 19, 2010, 05:37:06 am


"Trust you to bring a gun to a fistfight."


One of the my favorite lines in one of my favorite scenes!  LOL LOL LOL

I kept thinking when she put the gun on, she was going to need to use that against Paul if he actually took Adam down. I should have had more faith in Adam...he's the Alpha for chrissakes!  LOL  It did surprise me when she shot Henry. I really didn't see that coming.
Go Mercy!  8)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ladylynx on April 19, 2010, 05:56:37 am
I think Mercy starting to realize, she needs to bring a gun to a wolf fight.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on April 19, 2010, 09:23:21 am
"Such a small thing to cause so much trouble."
OK, actually:
I like the ambiguity of this line as to whether it refers to the Silver Borne, or his coyote.  Probably both.

I thought he meant both. Afterall, in werewolf conversation there's always more being said than the actual words.

This kind of makes me wonder about Bran's comment about raising sheep. Was that a euphemism for children?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 19, 2010, 10:36:28 am
I think the kids/sheep thing is going to be a running theme/speculation LOL but I think it could be partly that but also it could be aimed at the pack too. In many ways its parenting an albeit unruly family ;D
 
But I agree with the point that Adam meant both when he commented about that. Mercy is a catalyst of change via the chaos she causes.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 19, 2010, 12:57:48 pm
I don't know... would a guy who is so aware and distrusting of vampire society use the term "sheep" for the children of people he cares about?  I mean, maybe.  But it doesn't seem like a slip Bran would make. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on April 19, 2010, 01:32:30 pm
I'm probably thinking too deep. But I don't think sheep is meant as an insult because they all use it. Who's the "lamb's mommy" again? LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 19, 2010, 01:43:40 pm
Not that they mean it as an insult... but that vamps refer to the humans they feed off of as "Sheep" and I don't know if Bran would want to refer to his people (Whether wolf, human, or other) as the same thing. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 19, 2010, 03:28:36 pm
This is getting a bit off track from SB discussion. Let's continue
any Bran/Vamp convo to different threads. Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Carlton on April 20, 2010, 09:17:29 pm
Has anyone noticed that the existence of Vampires is now public?
Mary Jo blurted it out at the hospital in front of a doctor and a nurse.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 20, 2010, 09:24:55 pm
I missed that!  (snatches excuse to re-read & scurries off)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 20, 2010, 09:51:03 pm
Well dang if you aren't right (I missed it the first two times, too!) 
Of course, the general knowledge of vampires still depends on whether those present were paying attention... whether they believed Mary Jo... and of course, if I had just found out in the past couple of years that fae and werewolves were real, I would probably have my suspicions that vampires were real, too. 
And I would hopefully be smart enough to know better than to put myself in a situation where killing me would be advantageous to their continued secrecy. 

... so, of course, it also depends on the doctor and nurse being dumb enough to go spreading the story around... "The werewolf said the vampires tried to kill the Alpha's girlfriend" ... and whether anyone believes them if they do.  "The werewolf in the emergency room shouted this at someone she was angry at, during an obviously very stressful situation?  Are you sure you heard her right?" 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 21, 2010, 04:23:12 am
Has anyone noticed that the existence of Vampires is now public?
Mary Jo blurted it out at the hospital in front of a doctor and a nurse.

 :o I completely missed that comment. I'm gonna have to do a re-read real soon, along with the A&O books.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Safire on April 21, 2010, 02:05:49 pm
Some people might have figured out that vampires are real. Its not exactly a long stretch from Werewolf the Vampire.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Zealith on April 21, 2010, 02:45:42 pm
That entirely depends, after all, vampires and werewolf are usually paired together true, but that's only really been happening in the last couple of decades.  Which is about where the Mercy-verse splits off from ours.

Plus suspecting there are vampires and know there are vampires are two different things.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 21, 2010, 02:50:11 pm
The anti-fae groups are likely to suspect it; they're aware of the darker side of the fairy tales.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 22, 2010, 07:26:49 am
I noticed that too! It says "the doctor had been listening to Mary Jo's story with fascination" and the nurse was there too! And, when Sam is in the back of adams truck, while Mercy was on the phone, she said he was getting dressed at the moment, but then suddenly theyre at the shop and he had to wait because he was still shifting.  ??? I noticed a few more of these miss-haps while reading.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: vlntflwr on April 25, 2010, 06:03:27 am
First off, Loved IT!! With every fiber in me, absoulutely Loved IT!  I'm glad someone explained the deadlines of the many books Patty must produce in time for publinshing. Therefore some spots may appear to be rushed, so don't ask for everything all at once when we can't ask the same of ourselves. 

Second, Wow so much analysis so soon and I haven't even begun my second read. I usually like to peruse my favorite scenes over and over now I realize there is more to go over. Just curious, Stefan disappeared in this book too just like in Iron Kissed. Is something wrong once again? I hope not, but I percieve forshadowing once again. I don't want his non presence to go unnoticed like last time, I never forgave myself for that. :( Mercy had been missing for a whole entire month and no mention of Stefan and if he was involved in her search. Although given, it's not like anyone knows how to reach him. But I would have loved to read a parallell of how slowly time passed for Mercy and how quickly it was passing for every one else (or vice versa depending on how you look at it).  A parallell would have given us an insight into the turmoil that was building. Yet the story isn't written in multiple views, only Mercy's view.  Anywho, I really could continue but I's got some re-reading to do.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 25, 2010, 09:30:31 am
Mercy had been missing for a whole entire month and no mention of Stefan and if he was involved in her search. Although given, it's not like anyone knows how to reach him.
Good point!  I missed Stefan in this book too, although as someone pointed out: from Mercy's perspective, it took place over just a couple of days.  But the missing month... I know the wolves don't like to work with vampires, but Adam and Sam at least know that Stefan is alright as vampires go, and cares about Mercy.  You would think that even if nobody knows how to get ahold of him, he would have come around to see Mercy in that month and found out she was missing. 
Maybe he did but it wasn't mentioned because it wasn't important to the plot... after all, only so much space was dedicated to "what happened while Mercy was gone" and Adam/Bran/Sam/Ariana were the more important ones.  Particularly with Stefan having been not involved in the rest of the book. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: YuleRule on April 25, 2010, 11:53:04 am
Has anyone noticed that the existence of Vampires is now public?
Mary Jo blurted it out at the hospital in front of a doctor and a nurse.

Where? Can you give me the passage? (I have the kindle version, so page numbers would be pretty useless) --- Never mind, I found it.

Also, how come Sam was so controlled? In other times/books, when we saw Samuel's wolf, he acted pretty uncontrolled. Is it because he took over because of an internal reason (Samuel wanted to commit suicide (but doesn't it say in MC that Samuel considered suicide a cowardly act?))and not an external one (getting angry at someone/vampire's kiss).

Also, slightly off-topic: if vampires are evil, period, then isn't Stephan evil by definition? How can he be such a "good guy"? And if he's dead, how can he go to Andre's house during the day?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 25, 2010, 12:28:36 pm
Also, how come Sam was so controlled? In other times/books, when we saw Samuel's wolf, he acted pretty uncontrolled. Is it because he took over because of an internal reason (Samuel wanted to commit suicide (but doesn't it say in MC that Samuel considered suicide a cowardly act?))and not an external one (getting angry at someone/vampire's kiss).
I'm guessing that yes, the fact that he took over intentionally is a big part of the reason.  Remember that when he changes because of the vampire Kiss, he starts out uncontrolled but settles down with Mercy there and pretends to be a dog for the cop's benefit?  I kind of think of it as similar to if you were dozing off in class (but not quite asleep) and someone creeps up behind you and grabs you.  Sure, if you're a calm person, you're probably just going to flinch... but do that to a werewolf and violence will ensue.  Once you realize that your "attacker" isn't a threat, you relax and laugh with your friend about how bad you jumped. 

And with the vampire-demon thingy; remember the conversation Samuel has w Mercy at the end of BB, about how the demon brings out the violence in people and Samuel had the most exposure because the hospital was nearby?  But Mercy was "there and [saw] him still fighting when Ben had given up entirely to the wolf."  So there, the wolf was a) under direct threat and b) fighting Samuel for control

On the other hand, in this book, Sam takes control in order to stay alive.  Which means not attracting attention if he can help it (because that would bring his dad in to take him out, if Adam didn't manage it first.).  And Sam knows how to do that (as above... pretending to be a dog for the cop).
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 25, 2010, 12:42:19 pm
Hey guys!
The discussion about Stefan is going off topic from Silver Borne - I can start a thread for Stefan and are vamps all evil in the series comments section if you want to continue the discussion about that there.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: YuleRule on April 25, 2010, 12:51:28 pm
Thanks, that would be pretty good.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 25, 2010, 01:07:58 pm
Cool!

I started a thread about Stefan here :D
http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4843.0
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 25, 2010, 04:37:13 pm
So, does anyone else wonder why the Marrok was so able to keep his cool while Mercy was gone? I mean, he raised her, i would have thought he'd have been a little more shaken up about the whole thing.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 25, 2010, 04:44:24 pm
Remember how angry he was?  Mercy kept seeing it, and realizing that he wasn't mad at her.  But Bran has centuries, and maybe over a millennium of learning control.  I don't think we'll ever see him lose it, and if we do, there's that whole pesky berserker thing.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: charmed on April 25, 2010, 04:47:27 pm
LOL LOL Ellyll, such a pesky little detail, that berserker thing :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 25, 2010, 04:50:11 pm
Yea, i guess i wasn't thinking about his age... and i was thinking more about how a human would be freaking out, but he's a werewolf, and probably doesn'nt see things the same way  :-[
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: dee on April 26, 2010, 04:12:57 am
I did wonder...one of the many mysteries of bran or it's part of the missing 1 month..and from bran's character I don't think he will openly admit it to mercy how it affected him
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 26, 2010, 02:16:51 pm
I was just re-reading and suddenly came across the moment at Kyle's place where he asked if she hadn't had the walking stick with her.  Does it strike anyone else as odd that it chose to disappear at that juncture?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 26, 2010, 02:33:17 pm
may i just ask why it would be odd?   ??? :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 26, 2010, 02:38:28 pm
To me it was odd because it hadn't left her without either someone removing it or her requesting it to leave, before then.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 26, 2010, 02:53:23 pm
I did notice that... but it doesn't seem to have been an important new skill in this book at least. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 26, 2010, 02:59:09 pm
Not so far, no... but I wonder if it's some sort of foreshadowing of something that will happen in the next book?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on April 26, 2010, 03:03:30 pm
I think it disappeared and appeared several times before - I think it appeared during moments when she needed the stick or it was like forewarning/foreshadowing danger? Does the stick attract danger as well help defend it (like attracting Tim's attention) - and we should be moving this topic to the walking stick thread :P

Going back on topic- I think Bran was also livid about another witch messing around with the pack bonds - I think its also one way to get shake control of his berserker. But talking about bonds- I was rereading sections from Silver Borne and about the mate bond between Adam and Mercy - does anyone think they share a gift of telepathy/empathy? And now that its cemented properly will we get any other surprises?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: threers on April 26, 2010, 03:07:57 pm
I was thinking that the stick had shown up to help protect the book while it was in the open.  Once the book was safe (hidden) the stick was no longer needed to help protect it.  As the saga continues,  the stick seems to take on more life, disappearing when it isn't needed, reappearing almost in warning of danger ahead and ready to help.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 26, 2010, 04:27:19 pm
Off to the walking stick thread, threers.

Has, definitely.  The telepathy appeared at the end of Bone Crossed, and there's clearly empathy involved, as well.  I wouldn't be shocked at future developments, now that it's properly cemented. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: lilliana on April 27, 2010, 05:05:29 am
I agree, I got the feeling that Adam and Mercy do share some telepathy and empathy - more empathy, though. I'm thinking there will be a lot of communication through the bond without having to say a word to each other now that Mercy understands the bond better.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: midnight on April 27, 2010, 11:20:53 am
 :) I know this is completely random, but I am having difficulty in visualising the pack bonds described in SB. It says Mercy sees them as rocks and chrismas garlands. Is it that each person in the pack has either a rock or a garland to represent themselves or is it a case of everyone is a garland with a rock in the center of it.   LOL  :-[
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 27, 2010, 11:24:14 am
I read it as everyone is a rock, connected by these christmas garlands, and wrapped up in them.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 27, 2010, 11:30:13 am
Me too.  Think of a dreamcatcher with beads suspended in it.  These won't have holes through them, so they're on the 'ground' and wrapped/tied in the garlands, with mate bonds actually being differently colored, not 'fluffy', and anchored in the 'rocks' in question like umbilical cords, or - oh, if you've ever seen long candles that are dipped?  it's one long wick, with an anchor point, and it's held in the middle, dipped in the wax at both ends.  That cools & sets, then it's dipped again, and again, and again, to the point they're around 2-3 centimeters across the base.  The transition from candle to wick is almost invisible, depending on how they're done.  Same idea there, except that the "wick" between the two is longer.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: midnight on April 27, 2010, 11:48:08 am
ohh,  :D  For some reason I thought each person was a silver garland (those round ones) with a glowing rock in the middle of it and strands of ribbon between each garland tying them together.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 27, 2010, 01:36:05 pm
I picture it like a big circle of rocks, with adam in the middle attached to every one by a garland. Kinda like a bicycle tire, with the spokes.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 27, 2010, 01:50:43 pm
I picture it somewhat between hopeless1 and Patti:

Adam to the Pack is like a bike tire, with Adam in the middle and everyone else radiating from him... but then you have Mate bonds that go between the mated wolves... so it becomes more like a dreamcatcher, albeit a very simple one since there are only two mated females, but if there were more mated females, they would be more complexly dreamcatcherlike.  And if you really want to get the big picture, imagine what Bran's looks like... maybe one of those fireworks where it explodes into a big starburst, and each tip explodes into a smaller starburst...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 28, 2010, 02:32:40 am
I forgot the mention the mated females. Yes, they still attach around the circle in my mind.  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: NP on April 29, 2010, 05:30:15 am
Question: Is this bounty hunter Kelly Heart real, or merely based upon a real person? (We only have "Dog" in German television...)

I found the scene mostly pretty hilarious; only Sylvia's angry reaction was a bit sad; I hope we'll see more of that family in future books...

I really liked how the results of Mike's silver bullet experiments were used here.  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 29, 2010, 06:26:44 am
Using real people would be very problematical, this is a fictional character.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: NP on April 29, 2010, 07:05:59 am
About the mating/pack bonds: It will be interesting to see what powers will be transfered through these, now that they seem to be fully developed. Obviously, healing energy can be transfered (in both directions), as well as memories and urges. Maybe Mercy will get a bit of werewolf regeneration, while Adam might profit from Mercy's immunity to magic. (If the latter can be transferred by blood, why not by mating bond?)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on April 29, 2010, 07:48:13 am
I agree, I got the feeling that Adam and Mercy do share some telepathy and empathy - more empathy, though. I'm thinking there will be a lot of communication through the bond without having to say a word to each other now that Mercy understands the bond better.

But what's coming from the mate bond and what's coming from the pack bond? I presume as Alpha, Adam is going to get more empathically/telepathically from his wolves.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: NP on April 29, 2010, 09:08:29 am
Well, we know that healing works through pack bonds, otherwise Sam could not have drawn healing from Mercy. Mate bonds being "golden" versus "silver" pack bonds implies that mate bonds are capable of doing much more...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 29, 2010, 10:51:38 am
I hadn't thought about whether Mercy's affinity to magic ( or even her ability to control ghosts) would spread thoughout the pack. Perhaps the pack will just get little bits of what she does, or none at all. Only time will tell, really.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 29, 2010, 10:52:41 am
I doubt those things will seep through the whole pack, the bonds aren't that close.  Adam might get flashes or sparks from her.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: NP on April 29, 2010, 12:37:21 pm
Well, since Bones Crossed I have wondered wether Adam's immortality might spread to Mercy.

Mercy forever, yay!  :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Elle on April 29, 2010, 12:50:16 pm
The garland/rock scenario is just how Mercy perceives the bonds. I'd love if we could see how the other werewolves look at their bonds. It was a wonderful scene between Mercy and Bran though, one of my favorites.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Varg on April 29, 2010, 12:59:09 pm
Mine too. I especially liked when he commented about her not being afraid when she "saw" his monster, for lack of a better word during their mental meeting.
I like how she visualises the pack bonds. Christmas garlands tying rocks together LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 29, 2010, 02:28:57 pm
Mine too. I especially liked when he commented about her not being afraid when she "saw" his monster, for lack of a better word during their mental meeting.
I liked that too, although one part of me thought, "how sad, that Bran needs a Ben quote..."

"That stupid b***h has never had the brains to be afraid of you, me, or anyone else." 
Of course, I don't think Ben knows about Bran's berserker, the wolf who scares just about everyone who has any sense, including, I think, Bran's own sons. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 29, 2010, 03:22:00 pm
When bran went berserker, was samual the same way? Or did he have control?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 29, 2010, 03:24:37 pm
I don't know why Samuel would go berserk.  He didn't the first time, when Bran was berserk for decades, he didn't when Bran went off under Mariposa, he didn't when the demon caged him.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on April 30, 2010, 03:38:50 am
Bran and Sam are opposites. Bran's wolf goes off the scale crazy, whereas Sam's wolf is calm and controlled.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 30, 2010, 07:17:10 am
Um, killed & ate part of the fae that attacked in the bookstore, almost killed Mercy... not THAT calm & controlled.  And he had troubles when they were in the cages with the demon.  Remember, that's part of why he cares about Stephan, co-prisoner.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Pendle on April 30, 2010, 08:30:53 am
He was fading then, like Charles described.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: SilverWolf on April 30, 2010, 11:29:20 am
And he had troubles when they were in the cages with the demon.  Remember, that's part of why he cares about Stephan, co-prisoner.
Can you really count the 'demon' encounter as something negative towards his control though? The demon was making everyone go nuts, and Samuel had practically been bathing in the demon 'aura' (for lack of a better word) pretty much since the whole thing started due to the fact that the hospital was near the center of where the demon was 'operating' from. If anything that ordeal was a testament to his control that he didn't loose it sooner.

Hopefully I made sense (it's Friday, my brain wants me to start the weekend early :P)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on April 30, 2010, 11:36:46 am
I simply have a habit of arguing both sides of the picture.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on April 30, 2010, 01:08:31 pm
I agree with pendle, that he only went so crazy in the basement so fast because he was around that thing for a long time. Ben lost it completely, after only being around it for a few days. And adam hit the side of the cage a few times as well, and he was there for maybe a couple days? So yes, it shows how well his control was, not how bad.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 30, 2010, 02:42:57 pm
Ok, reading this, I started thinking about Sam's wolf compared to Charle's wolf, compared to Adam's wolf, compared to Anna's wolf, compared to... well, you get the picture.  And I worked up a graph of the spectrum of wolf dominance and "berserkerness."

Most wolves fall in the upper right quadrant, omegas in the upper left, and submissives in the lower right.  I postulate that those whose wolves would fall in the lower left, would never survive the change. 

Now, I'm pretty sure that beyond the fact that I was thinking about this due to the Sam's wolf discussion, it's getting off topic, so I'm not going to pose the graph here, and I'm on my way out, but I'll find a place to post it once I get back. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Ellyll on April 30, 2010, 02:47:28 pm
Kyria, we've got a thread on Rank, Dominance, Alphas & the Military (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=240.0) in the Shared World section.  Maybe you could put your graph in there?  It sounds interesting, and I bet it'd spark some great discussion.  :)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on April 30, 2010, 04:19:10 pm
Thanks will do.  It will be up as soon as I get it uploaded.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on May 01, 2010, 06:55:37 pm
I want to keep reminding people of two things regarding the complaint that it's too fast and easy on Ariana.

First, it only looks fast to us.  They had a month we didn't see to work on the dating/accepting each other again thing.  That's not that fast, and we don't know how far it's gotten.  Definitely not to "living together" level, with her panic attacks.

Second, she has not fixed everything for Sam, and people shouldn't be saying she did, and thus it was too easy.  No more than drinking from the fairy cup for physical healing solved everything for Mercy, nor being brought back to life by the Baba Yaga solved everything for Mary Jo.

All those were starts on healing, good ones, but things the individuals in question have to work to build on.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: ArtAngel on May 01, 2010, 06:57:03 pm
Those are really good points Patti!

I hadn't even thought of the first point, and it is so true!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: NP on May 01, 2010, 11:36:57 pm
Well, Patti, your arguments are conclusive. However, it still feels like something is missing. I say this cries for a short story with Samuel and Ariana. LOL

(In fact, there are lots of interesting characters in the Were universe that are demanding to get more stage time. There should be an election for a most wanted list on Hurog, I think.)   
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on May 11, 2010, 07:58:25 am
Carol has started a poll for that, in the general weres series comment area.

I'm kind of wondering how Zee and Tad felt during the month Mercy was missing?  How wrought up is poor Tad, after his dad was nearly killed over a murder he hadn't committed, and just a few months later his friend, almost older sister, Mercy, doing something he'd asked her to do, went missing for that month, with no idea of her fate.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Hexeengel on May 23, 2010, 12:20:03 am
OK, I looked at Patty's site and went through this whole thread (skimming, but still) looking for an answer to this and didn't find it.  So, I have to say that I feel like I'm missing something between BC and SB regarding Mercy and Adam's relationship, something that I felt like maybe was in a short story I missed (same thing happened to me whilst reading Sookie Stackouse too).  Namely, um, when did they first have sex to cement the mate bond? If I'm understanding correctly that's a pretty essential step, right? I know that their world moves on without us between books, but that just seemed a little sudden to me.  Or, I freely admit that I may be forgetting something from the end of BC, but really, Mercy/Adam sex is something I would've remembered (seeing as how I've been looking forward to it since the end of IK ;) lol).

Anyway, any help/explanation would be great.  Thanks everyone!

~~Hexeengel

P.S. Hi, I'm new to the board! *waves!*
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: hopeless1 on May 23, 2010, 03:43:20 am
didn't they have sex near the end of bone crossed? or were they just fooling around then?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Has on May 23, 2010, 04:39:45 am
Hi Hexxangel! :D

Yes, Mercy and Adam did cement their mate-bond in BC, this was after the Seethe's meetup - But it was only until SB that their bond was strengthened and healed due to pack interference and also the fact that it was burned out several times. But Mercy and Adam was fully mated in BC.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Hexeengel on May 23, 2010, 06:55:59 am
Well.  I guess I'll have to re-read that then *g* Thanks!
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on May 23, 2010, 07:59:41 am
Patty does very subtle sex scenes as a general rule.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Suzi on May 23, 2010, 12:55:09 pm
Who else is wondering who will move in next door to Warren? And how much they will be involved in the next book?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: chij on May 23, 2010, 05:51:32 pm


Ok so I just finished my semester at school yesterday and went right out and bought my copy of silver borne as a reward for being good and getting all of my work done. while trying to deny that siver borne was only ten miles away from being mine the whole last half of the semester!!! NOT a very easy thing to do.  Firstly I want to say that the book was totally worth the wait and is SOOOOOO awesome with the story and character developments that I almost can't stand it!!!! almost!! :P

I love the way the pack bond was handled by Adam, mercy, and the rest of the pack. Patty you are so amazing at staying to to the characters, where as some authors can't stay consistent. For your next book I'm going to stay away from the spoiler chapters. I really want to go in with no expectations. I failed to stop myself with silver borne and that may have affected my reactions, with that in mind I was craving so much more for sam.

I really want to make some sort of critic on the sam and silver story line but that would be a bit rude to think that you would leave sam high and dry on the story development. Surely you have something up your sleeve to create a better and stronger bond between them then the very odd one we are left with in the story.. ;) ;D :-whistle

patty you are a great writer and I truly love all the characters and depth you bring to your books..and I remember how hard mike said you were working on this.  Thank you thank you thank you from the bottom of my now very happy heart!!!

ps..With every book I find myself loving Ben and Jessie just a little bit more!!! I really don't know how I'm going to stand waiting for your next book!! you truly rock my socks!!! yep yep and they are rainbow stripped even... bOuNcY
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: truffle on August 03, 2010, 06:10:24 pm
I don't think this has been covered, but I apologize if it has...

I assumed, when I read the book, that Warren had the sleeping bags in his truck because Kyle and Warren were playacting 'Brokeback Mountain' and that the meat he was carrying around with him was the gift of a cow, because he was a cowboy--maybe it was one of Kyle and Warren's personal anniversaries, or a birthday or something. You can buy cows already butchered, so I'm not picturing Warren tearing it apart with his teeth in Kyle's living room.

Anyway, it made Warren blush. And it isn't the kind of joke that survives a detailed explanation.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Kyria on August 03, 2010, 08:52:30 pm
truffle - I kind of figured it had something to do with Warren being a cowboy and a werewolf, and that yes, it was approximately a whole cow. After all, a whole cow is a LOT of meat.  My dad usually buys 1/4 cow for our family of four (I've got relatives who raise cattle). 

I didn't really get how it was funny... but I just figured it was a Warren-Kyle thing that would make sense anyway, or else some kind of pop-culture reference that I will never understand (ask my friends, 90% of pop culture references fly way over my head).  I know how weird inside jokes get...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Corpsetaker on August 05, 2010, 08:41:54 am
I haven't read this whole discussion yet. I just finished Silver Borne literally 20 minutes ago.
But... what the heck is Kyle and Warren doing with all of that meat?  LOL

I think Warren was going to change Kyle so he had plenty of meat on hand to aide the recovery.

This thought just jumped in my head weeks after reading the book.  I haven't checked to see if my theory fits.  Funny how the subconscience mulls things over. :-\
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on August 05, 2010, 08:47:22 am
That wouldn't be much of a joke... especially, as is most likely the case, if Kyle didn't survive it.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Corpsetaker on August 05, 2010, 09:28:40 am
That wouldn't be much of a joke...

What?  Huh?  Did you even read my post?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on August 05, 2010, 09:37:15 am
Yes, I did.  Did you read in the book, where Warren said it was a joke between him and Kyle?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Corpsetaker on August 05, 2010, 09:47:41 am

[/quote]
This thought just jumped in my head weeks after reading the book.  I haven't checked to see if my theory fits.
[/quote]

Yes, I did.  Did you read in the book, where Warren said it was a joke between him and Kyle?

Maybe I should say, "Did you comprehend my post?"  See where I say its been weeks?  Try explaining yourself better.  It's awesome the way you jump down a new members throat.  Feeling real welcome here.  NOT   
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: Patti L. on August 05, 2010, 09:51:41 am
I'm not going to get in a flame war with you... re-read my initial response, which was bland, and just remembering the moment perhaps a little better than you did at the several weeks later.  I was out of line, however.

I apologize.  Me having a bad moment should not take it out on you.  You are right, a few weeks later, as a slightly silly idea, it would come to mind for a lot of people, I think.

I'm going to shut up now.  I need my foot surgically removed from my mouth.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: little gray wolf on August 14, 2010, 05:33:36 pm
Wow! I just joined too, but there is no reason to argue.  9) It was a great part, even though we may never find out what the meat was for. That and the camping stuff. But let's not get pushy. O)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: little gray wolf on August 15, 2010, 12:54:33 pm
By the way welcome Corpsetaker to the site.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: CarolKat on August 16, 2010, 03:47:50 pm
Funny that made me think of a weekend in the wilderness camping and Kyle not wanting Warren to become weak from over exertion.  >D :-whistle
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: little gray wolf on August 18, 2010, 04:22:26 pm
Good point
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: idiotfool on August 22, 2010, 08:05:34 am
Good of u all to read e book.....e bookstores in my country haven even got it yet...*sulks*
Kinda jealous tat u guys read it already...
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion [Spoilers]
Post by: little gray wolf on August 23, 2010, 12:48:32 pm
Don't worry! Be happy! :D At least you are on this site, which is a good thing O)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 02, 2011, 06:29:41 pm
I'm part way through Silver Borne. I ran into a snag in that I forgot to add it to my ereader before I left for holiday and didn't notice until I went to start it. I borrowed a friend's copy which I have to remember to give back before I leave.  LOL

This one is always a tough one for me to read because of Samuel's despair. I'm right at the explosion. Taking a minute to mourn for Mercy's trailer.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 03, 2011, 08:18:47 am
Elle I just finished Silver Borne! I'll wait for you. I gobbled up from IK on in just a couple of days.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 03, 2011, 08:50:52 am
 I'm just where Ari and Samuel meet up again. Drama!  :-LOVE I'll finish it later today. Then just reread the snippets to get a fix.  LOL
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: SlashZaku on February 18, 2011, 03:06:11 am
Just finished it not even 5 minutes ago.

Question about the whole Ari/Sam/Bran bit mentioned: Is this the story that was touched on in the A&O book 'Cry Wolf' (I think it was the one) that talks about Bran and Sam being Berserkers (didn't read through the rest of the topic so forgive me if it was asked/mentioned)?  I know Bran killed his mother (she was a Witch and Ari's father went to a Witch) and it mentions that when Ari's father couldn't reach his Hounds, Wolves came instead.  Ari also said that Sam disappeared after that and I believe it was mentioned in Cry Wolf as well that him and Bran hid away for some time (in a forest) before they were able to get back in control.

I might be off base with that but I'm thinking of going back through 'Cry Wolf' to look a bit more into that.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 18, 2011, 09:05:09 am
We're not entirely sure.  It may have happened very shortly after Bran's breaking free of his mother, or it may have been shortly after he came out of his berserker funk, or it could have been a century later, roughly.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 18, 2011, 02:32:16 pm
It was only Bran who was mentioned to be the berserker. Sam was the one who brought him out of it.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: SlashZaku on February 18, 2011, 06:33:43 pm
Found some bits:

Quote
"A Witch had forced the Change on her son and grandson--so she could play with them.  For years, she had them as pets, to do her bidding.  It made her the most dangerous Witch in the British Isles.  And then her son broke free.

He killed his mother and ate her.  Then he killed every living thing within miles.  He found a home in the dark heart of the great Welsh forests--and for years, nothing lived within a day's walk of his den.

Then one day, or so he'd heard, Bran had walked out of the wilderness, his son at his side.  No more berserker, only a harper, a teller of tales, and lone wolf.

The next time he saw Samuel, he'd have to tell his brother that his Anna defeated the Marrok at his worst with a couple of songs instead of the years it had taken Samuel."

So Sam never went down that road of the Berserker as Zealith mentioned.  Still curious about the connection though between the 3.  We know Sam killed the Hounds and Bran killed Ari's father but we also know Sam was one of the Wolves that was used/summoned by her father (Bran could have come at a later time to find his son?).  Ari's father went to a Witch but when he summoned his Hounds, he got Wolfs instead so depending on how you look at it, the Wolves could have belonged to the Witch or just been nearby in general.  But if they belonged to the Witch, I don't think she would have been happy with someone else commanding her own so that would have been an issue.

I guess Patty hasn't mentioned anything about visiting that specific frame of time in a story, has she.  Seems an interesting point in time.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 18, 2011, 08:17:45 pm
I suspect the incident happened well after Bran ate his mother. Sam mentioned belonging to a pack, and it was implied that they were alone under his mothers.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on February 18, 2011, 08:50:32 pm
On the other hand, if they managed to get caught up and compelled by witchcraft AGAIN, you would think that the second time would also have been mentioned in Cry Wolf.  It seems that witchcraft lets the Berserker out... so you would think that there would be another story for the second time Bran went Berserker.  So I'm in favor of Ari's dad's witch being Bran's mom. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 18, 2011, 09:05:48 pm
I've considered the possibility that it was that incident that broke Bran free of her, to be honest.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: charmed on February 18, 2011, 10:02:27 pm
On the other hand, if they managed to get caught up and compelled by witchcraft AGAIN, you would think that the second time would also have been mentioned in Cry Wolf.  It seems that witchcraft lets the Berserker out... so you would think that there would be another story for the second time Bran went Berserker.  So I'm in favor of Ari's dad's witch being Bran's mom.

I was under the impression that Cry Wolf was the second time that Bran went Berserker. Also, I had the impression it wasn't witchcraft per se that brought out the Berserker but the tie between Bran and the witch AKA his mother and how tightly he was bound, with no free will. When that was broekn, something snapped inside him and he went crazy.

As for Bran's mother being the witch for Ari's father, I haven't seen anything in the books to support that.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 18, 2011, 10:12:26 pm
Nope, there's nothing to support it, but I don't think there's anything that rules it out either.  Nicely ambiguous! :D
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on February 18, 2011, 10:27:15 pm
Like I said, that's just the way I see it.  Bran was being controlled via witchcraft - he was not in control.  Then he broke free... We don't know what happened to Bran immediately after that.  If we knew where he went off to, we would know for sure (did he go live off in the forest where he could kill everyone he met until Sam was done healing Ari and left her, went back to Bran and got to work on taming the beast?)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 19, 2011, 02:44:22 pm
My theory was that Bran wasn't fully controlled, so he didn't go Berzerk, and was able to kill Ari's father. Then he and the rest of the pack left because it was obvious they would do more harm than good staying, but Sam stayed because he already had some skills with healing and could do some good.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on February 19, 2011, 06:55:34 pm
that and he loved Ari
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kkat07 on February 21, 2011, 07:43:02 pm
I'm leaning towards the two incidents being separate, although I go back and forth.  Two main reasons:
1. Samuel said in SB that they (the werewolves) attacked because they had no choice, but Bran was stronger and he resisted.  So it sounds like he wasn't controlled like the others were, and killed Ari's father to stop him from controlling the others, including Samuel.  If Bran's mother was the most feared witch in the British Isles, she had probably used Bran and Samuel to kill people before. I don't know that Ari being in danger would have been enough for him to break free of the spell; as far as we know, he didn't know her.
2. In Cry Wolf, Bran tells Charles that he (Charles) is the only one he (Bran) knows he won't kill.  Charles wonders if Bran's mother had ordered him to kill Samuel, and he fought free of the spell rather than kill his own son. This is admittedly speculation on Charles' part, since he wasn't born yet, but it makes sense.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on February 23, 2011, 10:12:24 pm
See I think it was just speculation on Charles' part, and I got the impression that Bran attacked, too, but he was starting to break free anyway. 

From what I've gathered other places, it just seems unlikely that a witch could control a whole Pack without controlling the Alpha, too. 
In Cry Wolf, Samuel says, "A witch would never have been capable of holding a werewolf for days - kill her, yes. But not torture."  and Bran says, "I know of one who could."
I know that we don't know for how long Ari's father's witch controlled the wolves, but it still seems to me that some mention of another witch who controlled wolves - AFTER Bran's mother - would have been made in Cry Wolf, even if the witch didn't have complete control over Bran himself, because she seems to have at least had control over Samuel.  That maybe Sam would have said, "capable of holding a werewolf like the Moor's mate" or Brand might have said "I knew of a couple who could. 

I know, it's not how the rest of you see it, but to me it seems a significant discrepancy.  Yes I recognize that Cry Wolf was written long before SB, and Patty probably hadn't figured out Ari's background yet.  So if we ever find out for sure that it's a different witch, I'll have to come up with some justification.  But nothing totally excludes either option at this point, and this is the side that makes more sense to me. 

On a different topic...
When Mercy takes the book to hide at Kyle's, he mentions a woman who took out a kill-for-hire contract on her husband.  "She turned herself in that afternoon.  Seemed pretty happy to do so."  Now, I admit that I have NO insight into the mind of the type of person who would take out a contract on a person... but this seemed really strange to me.  Suspicious, what with the magical community running about trying to keep suspicion off themselves and frame others for their dirty work...
Did anybody else find this statement odd?
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 23, 2011, 10:21:35 pm
<snip>
On a different topic...
When Mercy takes the book to hide at Kyle's, he mentions a woman who took out a kill-for-hire contract on her husband.  "She turned herself in that afternoon.  Seemed pretty happy to do so."  Now, I admit that I have NO insight into the mind of the type of person who would take out a contract on a person... but this seemed really strange to me.  Suspicious, what with the magical community running about trying to keep suspicion off themselves and frame others for their dirty work...
Did anybody else find this statement odd?

Um... fae in behind iron bars... Iron kissed fae very rare... don't see it having anything to do with the widow/ex-wife, myself.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on February 23, 2011, 11:27:59 pm
Not necessarily the fae... I just found it suspicious that she had her husband killed and then immediately, happily turned herself in.  That doesn't make sense to me... but as I said, I don't have a criminal mindset.  I have no idea how such people's thought processes work. 

I don't think the woman would necessarily have to be of supernatural origins, either.  Just a scapegoat.  (We know that both the fae and the vampires have some ability to compel others, especially unprotected mortal humans)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 23, 2011, 11:31:55 pm
Oh, you mean like the thralls of the fairy queen from Silver Borne?  That's possible, all right.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on February 23, 2011, 11:34:53 pm
Or like the gheas (not sure I spelled that right) placed on Anna in HG, the faerie goblet from IK, or vampire compulsion.  There are many options. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 23, 2011, 11:40:34 pm
Usually spelled "Geas", and the "Spell Check" functions hate it.
Yes, the goblet could sure do that.

As could the other options you've suggested.

Some people are stupid enough to feel that "it's worth it" to get that kind of revenge then spend absurd amounts of time in the h*ll holes that are prisons afterward.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Varg on February 24, 2011, 03:30:14 am

On a different topic...
When Mercy takes the book to hide at Kyle's, he mentions a woman who took out a kill-for-hire contract on her husband.  "She turned herself in that afternoon.  Seemed pretty happy to do so."  Now, I admit that I have NO insight into the mind of the type of person who would take out a contract on a person... but this seemed really strange to me.  Suspicious, what with the magical community running about trying to keep suspicion off themselves and frame others for their dirty work...
Did anybody else find this statement odd?

Yes, but still within the range for hostile divorces. That is a brutal process which seems to drive the participants slightly or completely bonkers at times, and allthough this sounds completely insane to us not engaged in a conflict like that I do not think it necessarily signifies anything more than that divorce being extremely hostile and the insanity of that woman.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kkat07 on February 24, 2011, 05:44:04 pm
It's no crazier than the nutjobs who kill their spouses and children because they lose their job or something like that. Not that I understand that one either, or care to.
Anyway, to keep from veering off topic, I agree with Varg.  The woman was probably a little nuts anyway.
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on February 24, 2011, 07:07:03 pm
LOL, yes, probably a nutjob.
It just tripped my "PAY ATTENTION" switch, because I thought it was an odd detail to mention, even if it is just a case of a crazy woman. 
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Varg on February 25, 2011, 05:21:15 am
I actually just read is as an example of how crazy divorces get and that it can be dangerous to the participants.
You are a better conspiracy theorist than me Kyria ;)
Title: Re: Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on February 25, 2011, 07:20:00 am
I agree with you, Varg. Some people just don't get over tough divorces. Look at the flash back Adam had of just after his. He may be a were, but not all of his feelings are wolf, everybody feels pain and loss, you just should't be as extreame as to take out a hit order.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 10, 2012, 09:35:00 pm
I just copied this set of questions from the "Random" thread, because (and I'll need to look back in this thread to see,) I don't think they've been answered, or even guessed about. *I'm wrong; most if not all these things are speculated on earlier in the thread.

This might give some fun to those who haven't read "Fair Game" yet, and are going squirrely with not looking at spoilers discussion.

Why didn't Bran & Mercy look at her pack bond to Samuel?  Why didn't Samuel & Ari try to use that to find her while she was Underhill? *this was speculated on, no conclusions.

What did Sylvia say about Mercy giving herself up to get Gabriel out?  Was it "he wouldn't have been there if not for her"?  Which to me is specious; if he'd gotten taken hostage at a bank robbery, would it have been the fault of his boss at whatever other business he might have been working at for sending him to the bank? *Mentioned, but no conclusions.  I'd like to see this addressed in a future book, if it fits in the action logically.

Was part of Samuel's depression because of what happened between him and Ari when they first met?  Is that part of why finding her again did such a complete turn around for him? *speculated on, no conclusions.  Patty has said she'll probably do a short story about Sam & Ari; maybe we'll get some information then.

Was the reason that - excuse me, was ONE of the reasons that - Adam was so mild over her, AND that she made some dumb decisions in Bone Crossed because for Mercy she was still doing early emotional reaction to Tim's treatment of her, and what she had to do to him?  Was Adam not only taking that into account, but calling back to earlier interactions with people who had been tortured and traumatized?  Remember, he's roughly as old as Walter from "Cry Wolf" and doubtless saw Very Bad Things in his time in Viet Nam.  And the years since.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 08, 2012, 08:17:01 am
I was reading some stuff about religious beliefs yesterday, and the "crazy woman gets divorced, has husband murdered, and turns herself in" question suddenly took on a new spin.  She might have - by that point - been angry & frustrated enough to pay to have him killed, but be religious enough to believe that "thou shalt not kill" has clearly been violated by her, so she resigned herself to the horrible things in life & after that she's sentenced to, as what she deserves, but she got rid of him and she's happy about that.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on April 09, 2012, 08:43:50 am
See, that's the problem that I have.  I don't see how that mindset is in any way reasonable.  Which, you'll notice, is entirely different from logical.  What part of "Eternal suffering" makes you think that killing your ex-husband is a good trade-off for that?

..but then again, I'd never make a good criminal. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 09, 2012, 08:56:41 am
It's one of the bits of religions that I don't get/was trained to despise. 

Presumably, she thinks he's enough of a . . . son of an unwed mother dog . . . that she figures she's hastened him to his eternal torment too, so it's a matter of balance.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on April 09, 2012, 09:11:29 am
...If you truly believe that the person is digging themselves into eternal damnation, then wouldn't the greater justice be to let them keep digging until their eventual demise, while you live your life as well as you can so that you get your eternal reward?  Eternity is an awful long time. 

But that's just my perspective, and there's a lot of religious nut-jobs out there.  Who knows how their minds work?
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 09, 2012, 09:18:25 am
Part of the idea (as I understand it) would be to hasten their torment, and part "don't let it happen to someone else he might marry/otherwise treat badly", and you have to remember - it's an emotional response, not a reasoned one. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Elle on April 09, 2012, 01:17:25 pm
Getting a bit off topic for Silver Borne.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Zealith on October 27, 2012, 09:04:25 pm
So, I was rereading the other night and thought, "Why couldn't she use Mercy's garage as a focus?"
I mean, it clearly means a lot to Mercy to own her own business and it counts as a home as far as vampires are concerned. Anyone have any ideas? Or do you think the characters just didn't think about it?
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on October 27, 2012, 10:50:57 pm
It's not portable.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on October 28, 2012, 08:44:30 am
What about that... what kind of tool was it that Gabe grabbed for defense and Mercy went a little nuts? (maybe work-related things don't work the same way, or maybe there's some connection to Zee remaining over the things at Mercy's garage) Or the spare-parts Rabbit she used to torment Adam?  The tires she removed as needed would be bulky, but relatively portable.  (maybe that meant too much to Adam, like Gabe's sweater did to Jesse)

The ultimate cause is "Because that's not the way the story went."
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Zealith on October 28, 2012, 10:08:00 am
I suppose the not portable idea works.  LOL
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on October 28, 2012, 11:45:50 am
What about that... what kind of tool was it that Gabe grabbed for defense and Mercy went a little nuts? (maybe work-related things don't work the same way, or maybe there's some connection to Zee remaining over the things at Mercy's garage) Or the spare-parts Rabbit she used to torment Adam?  The tires she removed as needed would be bulky, but relatively portable.  (maybe that meant too much to Adam, like Gabe's sweater did to Jesse)

The ultimate cause is "Because that's not the way the story went."

I don't think they're that important to her, especially car parts.  The tool is expensive, not well loved/worn.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on October 28, 2012, 04:29:28 pm
The spare-parts rabbit may not be that important to her as far as its value as a spare-parts vehicle goes.
But I would think it would have significant sentimental value due to it being her "creative revenge on Adam" vehicle.
I mean, Ari said she would have been able to use Gabriel's sweater (except it had greater value to Jesse) and I honestly can't say I've got many clothes that I'm that attached to.  Certainly not

I may wear my jeans into the ground and then cut them up and make them into other things and then use those things until they fall apart, but they aren't really significant.  They're just clothes.  When my jeans fall apart, I go buy another pair of jeans that is usually almost identical to the ones that died, and I wear those until they die.  On the other hand... a quality tool that I use to do good work?  That kind of thing has importance.  I take pride in using a good tool to do good work.  Are they irreplaceable? of course not (well, I do own a couple of irreplaceable items, but I'm not talking about those).  But they're mine. and I'm proud of what I can do with them.
If that doesn't make it the sort of thing that ought to be useful...
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kkat07 on October 30, 2012, 04:27:32 pm
Since Mercy was in a realm belonging to, and controlled by, the fairy queen, maybe Ariana just couldn't get a lock on her no matter what the focus was.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on October 30, 2012, 04:29:02 pm
Doesn't wash, sorry.  She managed it for Gabriel, who she'd never met.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Vertigo on November 15, 2012, 12:40:29 am
Maybe it's a mix of emotional and physical proximity? As in, the person would need to not only have an emotional attachment but have also been physically close to the object for extended periods of time. Correct me if I'm wrong (my mind cant comprehend the order right now), but at this stage hadn't Mercy's trailer been burnt down? - the only clothing or objects she would have been both emotionally and physically attached to were already destroyed. Any clothing at Adams probably hadn't been worn enough by her.
It could be argued that the tools at Mercy's garage would have worked then, as they still fit the criteria - but they were made of metals. Ariana may not be affected by iron herself, but maybe the metal wasn't the best sort of conduit for that kind of magic.
But this leniency in the objects that can be used begs the question; why not use anything else owned by Gabriel to find him? Well, my theory is that in the act of running away from home, he has sort of emotionally abandoned any other belongings that might have otherwise held sentimental value - excluding the sweater, which he lent to Jesse.
That's about the only thing I can think of that still makes sense. Been a while since I've read silver borne, so there's a good chance im blatantly wrong.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on November 15, 2012, 01:01:29 am
As for why not use something else of Gabriel's to find him...
Jesse had his sweater, and as soon as they figured out that wouldn't work, they figured out that she herself would.
And arguments by the adults aside, Jesse wasn't going to sit quietly and let them go without her. 

Also, Gabriel wasn't supposed to be involved with them at that point.  Whatever possessions they might have experimented with were with his mother.  And dealing with her would take a good deal of time. 

I do need to go back and re-read with considerations regarding the rules of the time flow between the faerie queen's world and the "real" world.  Mercy was only "missing" for a little while according to the time flow she was experiencing, but a month (I think?) according to the time flow of the "real world."  So if Gabriel experienced a minimum of several hours in the faerie queen's world, shouldn't he have been missing in the real world for even longer?

Even if the queen had some degree of direct control over the relationship of time flow between the two worlds, why this discrepancy? 
I have my theories, but thought I'd suggest it for discussion.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on November 15, 2012, 08:44:45 am
Gabriel thought they had been there for a good couple of days.  The Fairy Queen can change the time flow differential to suit herself.

And he hadn't 'run away' at that point.  He was abiding by his mother's "in my house, my rules, so stay away from Mercy & the werewolves" except for the attempt to borrow a car.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kyria on March 28, 2013, 07:30:17 pm
(I'm not sure this is the best place for this... Mods, feel free to move it if you know of somewhere better)

I'm re-reading Cry Wolf and I got to the part where Bran's telepathy is discussed.  It was a talent that he shared with his mother.  And I started thinking again about that scene in Silver Borne where Bran says that he has an alternative theory as to why he could get some impressions back about Mercy's thoughts/emotions. 

And this is where my mind spiraled into wild speculation... and while I'm not even nearly convinced that this is a likely set of circumstances, I thought I'd set it forth to inspire fun discussions.  Somewhere, there was recently discussion of the fact that pre-Blue Jay Woman (and Leah), Bran probably wasn't celibate for however many hundreds of years he's lived. 

What if Mercy is Bran's great-great-great-great-great-however-many-greats-granddaughter?  We know that only one of Samuel's kids survived to adulthood... but we know of two of Bran's that did.  If he had another kid/kids, especially early on, it would be virtually impossible for even Bran to keep track of ALL of his descendants.
The genetics would be extremely diluted, but perhaps having the other half of her lineage being, you know, Coyote, brought out some small amount of witchblood-werewolf talent.  Which might have made it easier for Mercy to be made Pack instead of just Adam's mate.  And might be a contributing factor not to her idiosyncratic reactions to magic, as that seems to be a Walker trait, but perhaps to her ability to sense magic.  And might be a small contributing factor in the recent yellow eyes incident in Frost Burned. 
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 28, 2013, 11:00:31 pm
Not by any means impossible.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: ppbwashu on March 29, 2013, 11:57:08 am
And that's the kind of wild speculation we LOVE to indulge in!  :-LOVE
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Varg on March 29, 2013, 03:07:17 pm
And that's the kind of wild speculation we LOVE to indulge in!  :-LOVE
Absolutely! :D
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kansas Coyote on June 16, 2013, 09:37:46 am
Bran wasn't sure that the forest lord helped with the 'boost' when he talked to Mercy--but he said whatever it was, he couldn't yet wrap his head around it. Could it have been Coyote? He has more power in this continent than all of the other groups put together and, as we see in the most recent volume, he is aware of Mercy and senses when she really needs assistance.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Varg on June 16, 2013, 09:53:28 am
I assumed it was the walking stick providing the boost.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: big city wolf on June 16, 2013, 07:16:05 pm
I assumed it was the walking stick too because nothing happened until it showed up.
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: Kansas Coyote on June 22, 2013, 08:20:34 am
Ah, I see. Thank you! I'm just a new pup here and really appreciate the help in understanding the stories! :)
Title: Re: [Mercy #5] Silver Borne Discussion
Post by: YuleRule on March 19, 2014, 09:42:24 am
Was just skimming this, and came across this quote:
Quote
Fae don’t lie. I used to think it was can’t lie, but the book I’d borrowed made it pretty clear that there were other factors involved.

I keep wondering: Which ones?