The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Characters Board => The Weres => Romantic and Non-Romantic Couples & Relationships => Topic started by: caerali on February 22, 2010, 03:57:17 pm

Title: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: caerali on February 22, 2010, 03:57:17 pm
While posting in another section, I had an ipifany.

In Cry Wolf, George a member of Boyd's (Leo's) Chicago Pack, he stuck out at Anna and hit her.  I assumed with Leo and Isabelle gone, and new leadership, wolves would have fallen into the mindset of protecting an Omega (CW 11 - 13).

It could have been the human aspect of the individual to assume he could still behave in this manner, but I would have figured George's wolf would have held him back.  Bran was angry and willing enough (his wolf surged forward enough to change his eyes to gold) to kill George for having struck out at her -- it was Anna who prevented it.  I know the others were angry at her -- but no one else was willing to do anything other then glare at her hatefully.

I suppose what I'm asking is. . . is Isabelle's age sickness contagous?  Her mate protected her to the end. . . but he was desperate.  George had no ties outside of pack bonds as far as I can recall.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on February 22, 2010, 04:37:48 pm
Interesting epiphany, Caerali.  I think it was the 3 years of their being ordered & conditioned to treat Anna badly that were the primary cause, and the hurt dealt them by the deaths of their Alpha pair and Justin, the second or third, who theoretically should have taken the Alpha bond over. 

Also, we don't know if George has a mate, he probably doesn't, and may not have a wife, so it could have been an effect of randiness in part.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Vic on February 22, 2010, 07:57:08 pm
I agree with Patti in that this behavior was conditioned behavior.  After 3 years of being ordered and encouraged to brutalize Anna, I would think that just a day after Leo's death would not be enough time to break away from that conditioning.  Psychological conditioning would definitely take longer to break.  On top of that (if I remember correctly) Anna thinks that a few of these wolves were more naturally inclined to want to hurt her.  Which could lead us to think they were some of the newer wolves who would have been unstable enough to kill if there weren't an Omega in the pack.

Regardless, I don't think this is a sign of the age sickness at all.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: little gray wolf on October 27, 2010, 04:29:29 pm
That and since his old alpha gave an order for Anna to stop speaking latin,same page he hits her, then he was fallowing an order.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on October 27, 2010, 04:33:15 pm
I think you're saying "the same page mentions that Leo had given the order for Anna to not speak Latin.  That order had not been rescinded (reversed) by Boyd (yet) so he was following the existing rules." 
Am I interpreting it correctly?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: little gray wolf on November 03, 2010, 04:01:47 pm
yep sorry if I confused you Patti
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 03, 2010, 04:14:09 pm
I suspect I wasn't alone.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: little gray wolf on November 03, 2010, 04:22:56 pm
Again sorry :-[I confuse myself sometimes :)
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 03, 2010, 04:40:41 pm
As long as it's now clear, no worries.  It doesn't hurt with some of these, though, to sit down and look at your post before you hit "post", think about how it's going to read to others.  We don't have magic spy glasses into your brain, any more than you do to ours.  Thank goodness!
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Pendle on November 09, 2010, 11:09:58 am
Wasn't George a new(er) wolf? Maybe he didn't know what an Omega was.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: little gray wolf on November 09, 2010, 05:58:11 pm
I don't think i mentions, but seing as many of the wolves in that pack were new, it is a good possibility
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Pendle on November 13, 2010, 06:42:18 am
I'm curious, Boyd isn't dominant enough to hold a pack of his own, so what will happen? Do you think this pack will merge with the other Chicago pack (Jamie's?), or will a more dominant wolf be sent to take control?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 13, 2010, 10:13:22 am
???
How do you know he isn't dominant enough?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 13, 2010, 10:16:03 am
He had difficulty with thinking around Leo's orders not to call Bran.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 13, 2010, 10:18:49 am
Yes, but that was because he was less dominant than Leo. I don't think that being as strong as Leo necessarily is needed to be the alpha. I thought you just needed to be the strongest one in the pack. Also, now as alpha he has the pack magic to draw on and will be getting more strength from that.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 13, 2010, 10:21:48 am
True. I think Bran and Charles's thoughts were that the pack as a whole was traumatized and needed to be broken up so the individuals could heal. That is never exactly spelled out so I could be mistaken.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 13, 2010, 10:24:06 am
Yup. I don't think it is ever clearly stated but I assumed that he got to be alpha by default.
 If I remember correct Leo was a quite strong wolf, but not all alphas are as strong or even have to be.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 13, 2010, 10:27:26 am
My problem is I can't remember if I read it (discussion on the dissolution of the pack) in Moon Called or Alpha and Omega.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 13, 2010, 10:29:08 am
I have no idea. It might have been in MC maybe? There is more such discussion in the mercy books than in alpha and omega so far.
At least it feels like that to me. Might be wrong.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 13, 2010, 11:00:08 am
Not terribly strong wolves can be alphas; consider Europe, where Chastel was killing the strong ones.  There are several possibilities, including breaking up the pack, and Boyd staying in charge, and lone wolves or seconds from other packs coming to challenge for the position.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Pendle on November 13, 2010, 12:23:20 pm
I'm sorry I don't think I explained myself very well. Currently, Boyd is the most dominant wolf in his pack, thus making him Alpha. But dominance doesn't equate to leadership, and from what I read I don’t think he’s leader material regardless of how he reacted to Leo’s previous orders. Basically I was wondering if the Marrock would intervene by sending in a stronger wolf, or act to merge the pack with Jamie’s.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 13, 2010, 12:28:55 pm
oh, I see. You sparked some speculation though and that is good. :)

I do not think any such details are mentioned yet. From what we red in the Alpha and Omega short and Cry Wolf it did not sound like Bran had any such plans. But the focus was shifted away from that pack fairly quick. *ponders*
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 13, 2010, 12:32:37 pm
I only remember a line that suggests the "problem" was being taken care of. Hmmm.... Should find that place in the book.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: charmed on November 13, 2010, 12:44:31 pm
... I don’t think he’s leader material regardless of how he reacted to Leo’s previous orders. Basically I was wondering if the Marrock would intervene by sending in a stronger wolf, or act to merge the pack with Jamie’s.

He reacted teh way all wolves do to their Alpha (well, except for Omegas): He followed orders. Remember, pack magic ensures that that happens. Remember Asil's reasction to Bran's order in CW? Plus, Boyd did give Anna the marrok's number. He did what he coudl to wiggle around the enforced restriction/order from his alpha.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 13, 2010, 12:47:53 pm
And, while it's true (again, see Chastel or Arthur of Britain) that being dominant isn't the same as being leadership material, I think that Boyd does show it; he did what he could to get around Leo, and he took charge when Leo & Isabelle died, plus at Anna's apartment.  He may be a better leader than a dominant wolf. 
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 13, 2010, 12:48:55 pm
What they said. :)
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 13, 2010, 01:05:06 pm
In fact, Boyd might make an excellent Alpha, with a really strong second & third who are 100% behind him & Bran.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: charmed on November 13, 2010, 01:12:43 pm
IMO he shows both dominance and good leadership skills, plus he he seems ot have a strong moral base. I coudl see him being entrusted with a young girl who'd been turned.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 13, 2010, 01:14:35 pm
Yes; again, his dominance is not as strong as for instance Charles, or Adam; I suspect Warren or Darryl would outdo him too, but combined with his leadership skills and as you say, twin, moral sense, he could be a 'poster child' werewolf.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Jabulani on November 14, 2010, 04:39:38 am
Again sorry :-[I confuse myself sometimes :)

Little Wolf, don't feel bad. You are sooooo not alone in that regard. I wrote elsewhere that had I been human, I'd have gone stark raving mad a long time ago from sharing my mind with myself. It's scary in there, very very scary. LOL
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 14, 2010, 04:46:45 am
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/044/7/f/_hamsterball__by_Ugghhzilla.gif)
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Ellyll on November 14, 2010, 07:29:12 am
 LOL LOL LOL

I think it's hard to tell with Boyd.  He's clearly not as dominant as the other Alpha wolves we see, but they're all in the top few, so Boyd may be more representative of the 'norm' for wolves.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Jabulani on November 14, 2010, 08:28:59 am
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/044/7/f/_hamsterball__by_Ugghhzilla.gif)

Varg, this remark DOES NOT reflect on you, because you are sooo cool. But that emoticon is unbelievably irritating! You did that on purpose, right?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Pendle on November 14, 2010, 09:08:04 am
I think it's hard to tell with Boyd.  He's clearly not as dominant as the other Alpha wolves we see, but they're all in the top few, so Boyd may be more representative of the 'norm' for wolves.

I didn't think about that. And it's good point to make, Ellyl. I shouldn't have indirectly compared Boyd's dominance with the top four wolves in the whole of America, because the assessment is never going to be a fair one. Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Jabulani on November 14, 2010, 09:16:28 am
I think it's hard to tell with Boyd.  He's clearly not as dominant as the other Alpha wolves we see, but they're all in the top few, so Boyd may be more representative of the 'norm' for wolves.

I didn't think about that. And it's good point to make, Ellyl. I shouldn't have indirectly compared Boyd's dominance with the top four wolves in the whole of America, because the assessment is never going to be a fair one. Thanks. :)

I don't know, Ellyll & Pendle. He might not be one of the most dominant wolves on the continent, but as the new (even if only provisional) Alpha, the duties and responsibilities expected of him will be much the same, right? Or am I actually missing the point, here?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 14, 2010, 09:20:11 am
This conversation went on in about three different directions about the same subject.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Has on November 14, 2010, 10:09:54 am
I agree LOL -

Guys going way OT here - great discussion and thoughts but please stick to the topic but if you want to carry on these threads please post at the corresponding Mercy Garage/Character threads.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 14, 2010, 02:38:16 pm
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/044/7/f/_hamsterball__by_Ugghhzilla.gif)

Varg, this remark DOES NOT reflect on you, because you are sooo cool. But that emoticon is unbelievably irritating! You did that on purpose, right?
:P

Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: charmed on November 14, 2010, 02:41:07 pm
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/044/7/f/_hamsterball__by_Ugghhzilla.gif)

Varg, this remark DOES NOT reflect on you, because you are sooo cool. But that emoticon is unbelievably irritating! You did that on purpose, right?
:P



Have a cookie :)


(http://www.iloveparish.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/heart_ginger_cookie.jpg)
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Varg on November 14, 2010, 02:43:44 pm
Thank you charmed! :)

so, back on topic: is it likely that Bran will brake up the pack and place the most disturved wolves in other packs?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 14, 2010, 02:46:41 pm
Can someone who has their book handy find the quotes about fixing the pack and post them. I know there is something in the quotes to latch onto. My books have been packed up.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 14, 2010, 02:53:59 pm
We don't know which book it's in; have you checked the Canon area here if there is any mention of it?
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 14, 2010, 03:01:20 pm
I quit looking too hard for things when the search function disappeared with the upgrade. It is either in Moon Called or in Cry Wolf. Moon Called is the better bet.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 14, 2010, 03:18:29 pm
Huh.  I would have thought in A&O if at all, but okay.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: little gray wolf on November 14, 2010, 03:25:50 pm
I think the pack will probably stay together. Charles offered help with money in A&O so they must have had plans to help/rebuild the pack
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Elle on November 14, 2010, 04:23:54 pm
Bran asked Boyd to set up a call with Charles and their pack accountant and offered to arrange a loan if they needed it.

I have a hard time believing that Boyd could hold the pack. I think that they may even merge with the other Chicago pack.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Kkat07 on November 21, 2010, 06:02:59 pm
Comments in Moon Called and Cry Wolf imply two different things.  In Moon Called, I believe it said that the pack was going to be broken up, but in Cry Wolf there's that part about Bran telling Boyd to have his accountant talk to Charles about a loan.  If I had to pick one to be more accurate I'd pick Cry Wolf, just because it was written later.  I remember in Moon Called it said something about the second being out of town, but in Alpha and Omega he was there.  I only have a Kindle version of Moon Called, so I can't give page numbers. 
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Janilee on November 21, 2010, 06:06:09 pm
Hmm... Interesting. Next time we can send questions to Patty for an interview, someone ought frame a really tight question.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Pendle on November 23, 2010, 11:39:10 am
Comments in Moon Called and Cry Wolf imply two different things. In Moon Called, I believe it said that the pack was going to be broken up, but in Cry Wolf there's that part about Bran telling Boyd to have his accountant talk to Charles about a loan.

Depends what it means by broken up. It could be a reference to sending in the executioner, or could actually be meant literally. I still can’t see Boyd holding this pack, their all too broken, and most of them don’t know the rules. It might be more beneficial to split them all up into separate packs placed around the country.

I remember in Moon Called it said something about the second being out of town, but in Alpha and Omega he was there.

Mercy isn’t privy to all werewolf business. And some of her information would be outdated in MC.
Title: Re: Leo/Boyd's Chicago Pack
Post by: Patti L. on November 23, 2010, 11:48:14 am
Yes, one plan might have been made before Bran hit Chicago, and a second after he assessed it himself, and Mercy might only have heard the first.