The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Mercy Thompson | A&O Books Board => The Weres => Published Books => Topic started by: Taranis on September 14, 2007, 07:39:27 pm

Title: [Mercy #3] Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Taranis on September 14, 2007, 07:39:27 pm
That's such a good point!  I was wondering how all of this will affect Mercy's relationship with the vampires.  She was really upset with Stephan for allowing Andre's people to be killed.  Coupled with her own struggles with killing Andre, I am really curious how she's going to interact with the vampires from now on...and won't the Seeth find out about her killing Andre?

(Sorry...I tend to spill out questions like there's no tomorrow!   :-\)


ETA: Title modified. Elle
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on September 14, 2007, 08:03:43 pm
Unfortunately, Patty said she wasn't going to deal with the vamps in Iron Kissed.  So we'll have to wait at least 18 months to find out.  Unless Patty could give us a hint now? 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Taranis on September 15, 2007, 02:06:24 pm
Patty, PLEEEAAASSSEEE????  Please Please Please??? :-[
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jackie on September 16, 2007, 12:55:05 pm
Just a thought.... Mercy's emotional health will be with her whether she deals with vampires or not.  Something tells me how she feels about killing will come up in Iron Kissed.  Also, just because the book is primarily about Fae doesn't mean the vampires stop exsisting even in the front of Mercy's mind.  It just will get very little attention, probably.  And beg as much as you want - the book's written and the author's on a schedule   (see books page on hurog.com) :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 23, 2007, 12:48:43 pm
Well, here's the thread where everyone can talk abuot it, until such time as everyone has had a chance to read it. ^^

First of all, yayness that Sam was easily set aside as pontental mate with no hurt feelings! *does the happy dance* And even more yayness that she accepted Adam.

I was pleased how she ended the book, it was a very nice little scene to end with. ^^

And there where many other things, but I'll only throw it one more before ending this rant.

Bran is a bard? I admit, when I thought of his past, I thought of him as a farmer type person.  :-[
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: deva on December 23, 2007, 04:10:36 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I have been calling around for a week trying to find out who has this book out on the shelves.  It has been killing me, googling my butt off trying to find someone with a spoiler to tell me who she picks.  I finally located a bookstore 20 miles from me with the book on its shelves, but I can't get there until tomorrow.  I had just resigned myself to a sleepless night when I decided to check the forum as a last ditch effort to find out who she picks so that I may get a restful sleep tonight.  So, thank you so much!  I am so happy (though my husband did say "what if she is posting that just to throw you off?")
Now I will have a peaceful night ahead of me and an early morning trip to a bookstore holding the book that has been on my wishlist for what seems like forever.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 23, 2007, 05:03:41 pm
I've read the book.  Loved it!!  I'll do the best I can to conceal my spoilers...  Maybe post them in black, so that you have to run over them with the curser to see them.  My expectation, however, is that since "spoilers" is in the title of this thread, people who read this thread should expect to see, well, spoilers.


I really liked how Patty handled Mercy's choice between Adam and Sam.  It's wasn't just that I'm happy that Mercy went with Adam -- love me some Adam!!! -- but I totally get what Mercy was saying when she talked about who she was before, when she was a kid and first knew Sam, and who she is now, and why that has a impact on her choise between the two men.  Maybe it's because I'm 36 myself and have worked hard to become my own person, independent and sure of Self, but I could relate to Mercy's reasoning and it seemed completely SENSIBLE to me.  Like...sensible in a psychologically-reasonable way.  I also agreed with what Jesse said at one point in the book. She said that Adam doesn't waste his resources.  From what we've seen of him so far, that's very true.  Mercy has assets as a coyote...and therefore assets to Adam's pack.  So while he can be domineering and dictatorial, he's also not the type of guy to shuffle the little woman off to the side, simply because she's female, not when she adds real value to the situation at hand.

I also think Patty did an AWESOME job writing the Tim and Mercy scene near the end of the book. What a difficult scene to read, knowing what was happening to Mercy.  But Patty did a great job writing clarity into the scene without relaying every single little detail.  We knew what was going on, but we didn't have to SEE it all.  Since I can be rather squeamish about rape scenes, I appreciated that.

And major kudos to Ben!!!  Oh my gosh!!  He was just wonderful at the end.  My hat is off to him for risking so much to lay it all out and explain it to Adam.  I liked how he put it -- he wished he'd have explained it more respectfully.  But he just jumped several notches up the list of My Favorite Characters.  And of course, now that I know something more about his past, I'm even MORE curious about what happened to him.  I hope we find out more in the next book.

I'm worried about the continued presence of the walking stick.  I know that this particular walking stick made ewes pregnant with twins.  But I can't help but think of it, then, in terms of general fertility.  Mercy said she was on the pill, but since the sick is fae and magical...and still insisits on hanging out at Mercy's house...it troubles me a little.  I wouldn't care if it were just Mercy and Adam -- although I'm not chomping at the bit for Mercy to get preggers -- but considering what happened with Tim, well...it worries me. 

Not sure what my favorite scenes are.  Maybe the scene with Adam and Mercy in the shower, when he first discovers her tattoo.  But I also really liked the scene at the end when Mercy was in coyote form and Adam was in his human form.   
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 23, 2007, 08:04:21 pm
For anyone who's looking for it early: I got my copy from Walden's Books, which I think is a chain.

I really liked those two scenes too, and the one that ends the book. What can I say, I'm a sucker for cuddle scenes. Overall, I like the way Patty played this book. Keep the romance from overruling the rest of the plot, but still keeping it strong enough that we knew it would be resolved. And I really liked Austin Summer, I can just see the scene by the river so perfectly in my mind.
I really liked how she got more into describing how Adam's wolf looked in this one. I think she only mentioned it once in the other books, and I had trouble picturing him in my mind. Now I'm all inspired to try and draw him in that half stage.
I liked how Sam backed down, to me it seemed to fit him far better then having Mercy as a mate or coming to a fight with Adam would have.
I liked how we saw more of Ben, Honey and a few other minor characters that I liked. And now there's all sorts of fun stuff we can add to the character lists. *biggrin*

((Wow, I used 'I liked' too much. *blush*))
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on December 23, 2007, 08:50:01 pm
I removed a few posts discussing whether or not spoilers should be allowed.  For the record, I'd LIKE to keep major spoilers in clearly-marked topics (like "Iron Kissed *spoilers*", for example  ;D) for at least a couple weeks after the official release date of the book, to avoid "accidental spoilers". Within these topics, however, feel free discuss the book to your heart's content.

 The readers have been warned  :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 24, 2007, 09:12:50 am
Thanks Mike ! ;D

I have to agree the scene where Adam, Ben and Mercy really got to me as a reader- Wow very intense and heart wrenching and I love the cuddle scene too. I love Adam !!!!
Its great that we learn more about Ben, who isnt as tough as he makes out.
I also love how the romantic triangle was resolved but I think there were hints in previous books that showed this. Its also great to see that Mercy is beginning to realise that she has a family of her own makining and that she isnt alone - I am really looking forward to how her relationships with Adam/Sam/Zee and the pack evolve.
Anyone think there is more than meets the eye about the walking stick? I have some theories but it looks like it was trying to tell Mercy something in IK, or that was my impression. It appeared where just before a pivotal scene or character appears? For instance it appeared in Mercy's  car when she leaves the meeting.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 24, 2007, 09:54:38 am
Its great that we learn more about Ben, who isnt as tough as he makes out.

Very interesting.  Ben has been very misogynistic up until Iron Kissed.  As he was alluding to his own personal experiences during his conversation with Adam at the end of IK, I thought that he'd been abused by a man.  I shouldn't make that assumption, but I do.  If I think "pedophile", I automatically assume it's a man, just like when I hear the word "rapist", I'm automatically going to assume the rapist is a man.  But after Ben's revelations, I'm thinking he was abused by a woman, and this is why he hates women.  Or maybe he was abused by a man, but a woman either 1) arranged it or 2) knew it was happening and allowed it to happen.  I definitely want to know more about his backstory.  (I'm a sucker for psychology.  I love it when fictional characters behave in a way that is psychologically reasonable.) 

Its also great to see that Mercy is beginning to realise that she has a family of her own makining and that she isnt alone - I am really looking forward to how her relationships with Adam/Sam/Zee and the pack evolve.
Ditto.  Makes me think of Eve from the In Death series:  a woman who was essentially alone, but learned in her adulthood that "family" is what you make of it.  I'm enjoying watching Mercy discover that her "I don't belong to a pack" mentality just no longer rings true.  She's surrounded by pack, by people who care about her and rely on her and will go to bat for her...whether she likes it or not.

Anyone think there is more than meets the eye about the walking stick? I have some theories but it looks like it was trying to tell Mercy something in IK, or that was my impression. It appeared where just before a pivotal scene or character appears? For instance it appeared in Mercy's  car when she leaves the meeting.
Oh, yes...the walking stick worries me.  If it were a non-issue, it wouldn't still be hanging out with Mercy at the end of Iron Kissed.  I think Patty has plans for the stick.  I wonder what those plans are?  (And I wonder if those plans include influencing the fertility of the female werewolves in Mercy's pack.)  Dunno...  But I also wonder if there's more to the stick than Mercy has discovered yet.  Like...the goblet, in the hands of a human, could enslave another human.  But in the hands of a fae, the goblet could heal.  So...maybe the walking stick has "dual" uses as well.  In the hands of that human shepherd, the stick could make ewes have twins.  But Mercy is not completely human.  Maybe there's an alternative "use" to the stick that her non-humanness will trigger.

I also had the thought that Tim was a bit "skinwalkerish" in his druid hide.  The skinwalkers have to wear the hide of the animal into whose shape they transform, and they bring death and disease with them.  They're evil.  While Tim didn't transform shape, I thought his donning of the druid hide and his behavior were analogous to the skinwalkers.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 24, 2007, 10:18:03 am
Quote
Ben has been very misogynistic up until Iron Kissed.  As he was alluding to his own personal experiences during his conversation with Adam at the end of IK, I thought that he'd been abused by a man.  I shouldn't make that assumption, but I do.  If I think "pedophile", I automatically assume it's a man, just like when I hear the word "rapist", I'm automatically going to assume the rapist is a man.  But after Ben's revelations, I'm thinking he was abused by a woman, and this is why he hates women.  Or maybe he was abused by a man, but a woman either 1) arranged it or 2) knew it was happening and allowed it to happen.

I agree- but I think it was mentioned somewhere in chat I think that Ben was forced changed, he also regarded himself as a monster I don't know if that is in BB - I think it is. But I have a feeling that he was forced changed by a woman and not necessarily by a man so he hasnt got a high opinion of women. But it really looks like that he really admires Mercy and I think there maybe a bond between them because of their previous experiences regarding rape/abuse. You could see that when Mercy took Ben to scare the bullies away ;D
I also think that Ben is very insightful about how the pack is run and its relationships- Although Adam was on edge after Jesse's attack he knew that Mercy could calm Adam down, and in some ways knows more about their relationship than they really do.

And I agree about the shades of Eve and Rourke- Who I think is a fantastic couple! I just cant wait to see how things evolve between them.

Quote
Oh, yes...the walking stick worries me.  If it were a non-issue, it wouldn't still be hanging out with Mercy at the end of Iron Kissed.  I think Patty has plans for the stick.  I wonder what those plans are?  (And I wonder if those plans include influencing the fertility of the female werewolves in Mercy's pack.)  Dunno...  But I also wonder if there's more to the stick than Mercy has discovered yet.  Like...the goblet, in the hands of a human, could enslave another human.  But in the hands of a fae, the goblet could heal.  So...maybe the walking stick has "dual" uses as well.  In the hands of that human shepherd, the stick could make ewes have twins.  But Mercy is not completely human.  Maybe there's an alternative "use" to the stick that her non-humanness will trigger.

You took the words out of my mouth - I am scared as well because the fae stories because there are huge repercussions in using fae objects- remember the drowning of the sheep - when the farmer loses the stick!
And interesting take  on Tim, yeah he was like a skinwalker and he was definitely sociopathic and he was more of a monster than some of the wolves whose instincts sometime overule them.
I am worried about the impact of this though - I woman what about the lawyer who was a member of the anti supernatural group- she knows Mercy is a coyote will she use that against her despite the fact she is sworn to secrecy?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Jenn on December 25, 2007, 04:52:37 pm
I have read Iron Kissed twice. LOVED IT.
The story was great. I loved how Patty handled the Sam and Adam issue. 
My only complaint.....it ended too soon. I wanted more ;D 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 25, 2007, 06:20:49 pm
I like the idea of the stick influencing the werewolves' fertility, but because we've mentioned it before she's even had a chance to start writing, I doubt she'll go with it. She wouldn't want it to look like she was borrowing from the readers' ideas.

Lawyer confindentiality, I doubt it will come out, at least right away, that Mercy is a walker.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on December 26, 2007, 01:39:53 pm
The story was great. Loved logic with The Choice. The cover ups are almost like some the bad conspiracy movies.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kravbeast on December 27, 2007, 06:09:29 am
For the last month I've been driving mad every employee of B&N, Borders and every other bookstore in my area. I'm sure by now they recognized my voice as well as the question that would follow because yesterday before I finished saying hello, the nice employee from Border said, "you're the Iron Kissed lady..." 

Nevertheless, her name is Valerie and she's a gem. I must talk to her manager. She told me that her store (The Borders in the mall) had not received Iron Kissed but the one in Preston did. She found out this for little ol' me. Isn't she a darling?  So I called Preston, found out that they had only one left, went into a total panic until they guaranteed that they would hold and drove down immediately to get it. No breakfast, no make up, forget about the hair, and I think I wore one blue sock with the other red. BUT I now have in my possession a copy of Iron Kissed. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Naturally, the boys know that their mother will fall in a catatonic state until "she's" read THAT book. There will be no meals until I've finished. No sign of life until I've finished. The boys are so grateful...
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Talking_Mouse on December 27, 2007, 07:13:44 am
Bran is a BARD?!?!  This is a very interesting tidbit on my favorite secondary character.  Is he the the kind of singer who knows tales, custom, and verse (his own and other peoples)  and would, in other times, have gone from both court and village singing, carrying news, and settling disputes (since he knows custom and his person is inviolate) or is he the seerer who sees visions/is god(dess) touched and, in other times, would advise leaders or villages, act in some ways a priest, and also tells tales and sings.  Both are the storehouse of tales and knowledge, so the seeing through Samuel's eyes could work with either.  For someone who almost had the given name of Gwynedd (my mother had visions of me in kindergarden trying to tell how my name was said and spelled and thankfully went with something less exiotic) finding out Bran is a bard is great fun. 

Without doubt my favorite scene is the Adam Ben scene  near the end.  Ben has shown that he is willing to die for Adam.  My thought is that he sees Adam as the father who would have protected him from the woman who abused him. I'm with Nifty in normally thinking abuser=male but in Ben's case I agree with Nifty that the abuser was female.  Here is where Ben proves he cares more about Adam then he does himself.  He knows Mercy is important to Adam, and is willing to risk his life (Adam could have killed him), to make Adam understand what is going through Mercy's thought/emotion process. Adam then verifies to Ben why he is the wolf Ben would be wiling to die for, by both understanding in terms of Mercy's rape, but also Ben's rapes.  Calling the Alpha power, so Ben knows in his soul that Adam does consider it rapes, and still loves Ben (hug and talk of overcoming childhood trama) validates everything an Alpha should be (Ben is his child to love feed and protect).

Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 27, 2007, 08:37:24 am
I am glad you got a copy Kravbeast ;D

I think you are right Talking_Mouse  about Bran being a Bard . It sounds more like he is  a seer- it seems like he knows when people are in trouble or up to trouble - although that could be his reputation  :D. But I have a feeling that he is psychic and has the ability of seeing glimpses of the future or senses things. He was also right about the fae anchors/reservations so he has indepth knowledge of the fae and what they are like- I wonder if the mythology of the fae and the werewolves are interlinked somehow in the past?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 27, 2007, 08:55:07 am
Speaking of Ben and Adam at the end....  

I loved the hug between them after Ben chewed Adam's ear off, and risked getting his butt kicked in the process.  I liked how Mercy stated that the hug was not something you'd see between heterosexual human males.  

The other day, I was working at the bookstore and I walked by my friend Georgine -- a 65-year-old Hungarian woman who is my hero; what an amazing life she's lived!! -- and I scrunged her on her back for a minute or so...gave her a quick rub and scratch and just a good, massaging scrunge, and she all but purred like a cat under my hands.  She thanked me later and said that's one of the things she misses about Europe:  in Europe, she said, you can touch another person without it having sexual innuendo or implications, and Europeans touch all the time.  She said that American's don't touch.  We'll touch our family members and maybe ourclosest friends, but otherwise we don't touch and she thinks that's sad.  (I agree with her -- both that we don't touch AND that that's sad!)

I've always noticed in reading fantasy over the years that the characters -- especially the men -- touch more.  Heck, they even kiss occasionally -- again, not in a sexual way.  But there's more physical connection among them...and in urban fantasy, with werewolves and other shifters, you're seeing it more and more.  And it's almost as if the physical touch helps to cement the relationships and the strength of the pack.  After all, animals touch...they groom one another as part of their social structure, spending hours each day sometimes in physical contact with one another.  But humans, as a rule, simply don't.  (Which is probably why we pay to have massages...or why we ladies often say that the scalp massage is the best part of getting our hair cut.)

I know that I live alone -- no spouse; no kids -- and if it weren't for my dog, I'd be completely without physical contact and touch.  I take great comfort in the fact that I can cuddle up with my dog and stroke him...but still...that's not the same as human contact.

Anyway...it was just something that registered with me during that scene.  (Sometimes I like the subtle stuff more than the action scenes.  I just went to see I Am Legend and found that I preferred the first half of the movie, with Will Smith's character focusing on the "normal" routine of his survival, more interesting than the second half that had all the action.)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 27, 2007, 09:09:31 am
I wonder if the mythology of the fae and the werewolves are interlinked somehow in the past?

Well...if you read the Arthurian take on werewolves, it's a bit different than the modern take.  The original Sir Marrok became a werewolf because he was cursed by his wife.  He didn't get the lycanthropy by being bit; rather, it was magic.  She hid his clothing, thus ensuring that he stayed in wolf form for seven years (or whatever it was).  But how did she curse him?   Where did she get the mojo?  So perhaps the fae WERE involved.  Maybe over the centuries, the werewolf "infection" altered.  Now it's physical as much as it is magical -- it can be transmitted via a bite, like a physical infection.  With the Arthurian werewolves, they could only change if they were naked.  They had to remove all their clothes first.  But Mercy's werewolves can change if they're clothed -- it just makes the process harder and more painful.

I'm still holding onto my suspicion that Bran is the original Sir Marrok, and not merely named for him.  I thought it was interesting at one point in the story when Uncle Mike calls Samuel "Samuel Marrokson."  Samuel, son of Marrok.  We know that Mercy knows Sam as "Samuel Llewellyn Cornick" -- the three-named deal being very Western-world modern -- but maybe "Samuel Marrokson" is more correct.   After all, if Bran and Sam ARE that old -- going back to Arthurian times -- they wouldn't really have an official last name.  Their "last name" if they had one would be tied to what they did for a job or where they were from...or who the father is.  I don't know how old Uncle Mike is, but it's reasonable to me that he would know Sam as "Samuel Marrokson" because that's who he knew him as centuries before.  Also, it's obvious the fae have great respect for Bran -- and perhaps a little healthy fear, in that they view him as a worthy enemy.  When Sam tells Nemane that Bran would not like it if the fae killed Mercy, since he views her as his daughter, that gave Nemane pause.  I think it was more than just her not wanting to start a war between the fae and the wolves.  But the wolves have magic of their own -- ESPECIALLY Bran. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 27, 2007, 09:10:30 am
I think thats more like continental Europe than Britain  :D - I think here in the UK its more like the US.

However I loved that whole scene. It was really intense and gut wrenching, especially with Ben's revelations and despite his attitude he knows he has found an alpha that he can trust, respect and maybe love. But I also believe that he has bonded in some ways with Mercy - she can understand to some extent of what he is feeling and I think he admires her but wont admit it to her LOL And its not only Ben though the rest of the pack like Adam, Honey's conversation illustrated this when she felt that Mercy was playing games with the him and the pack.

I also love in Paranormal/Urban fantasy books that men and women can be really affectionate and convey any sexuality - another good example of this Nalini Singh's Psy series. And its great to have to have a cuddle or a hug especially when you really need one. :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 27, 2007, 09:16:05 am
I wonder if the mythology of the fae and the werewolves are interlinked somehow in the past?

Well...if you read the Arthurian take on werewolves, it's a bit different than the modern take.  The original Sir Marrok became a werewolf because he was cursed by his wife.  He didn't get the lycanthropy by being bit; rather, it was magic.  She hid his clothing, thus ensuring that he stayed in wolf form for seven years (or whatever it was).  But how did she curse him?   Where did she get the mojo?  So perhaps the fae WERE involved.  Maybe over the centuries, the werewolf "infection" altered.  Now it's physical as much as it is magical -- it can be transmitted via a bite, like a physical infection.  With the Arthurian werewolves, they could only change if they were naked.  They had to remove all their clothes first.  But Mercy's werewolves can change if they're clothed -- it just makes the process harder and more painful.

I'm still holding onto my suspicion that Bran is the original Sir Marrok, and not merely named for him.  I thought it was interesting at one point in the story when Uncle Mike calls Samuel "Samuel Marrokson."  Samuel, son of Marrok.  We know that Mercy knows Sam as "Samuel Llewellyn Cornick" -- the three-named deal being very Western-world modern -- but maybe "Samuel Marrokson" is more correct.   After all, if Bran and Sam ARE that old -- going back to Arthurian times -- they wouldn't really have an official last name.  Their "last name" if they had one would be tied to what they did for a job or where they were from...or who the father is.  I don't know how old Uncle Mike is, but it's reasonable to me that he would know Sam as "Samuel Marrokson" because that's who he knew him as centuries before.

I totally agree- and I think that the magics of the fae, the werewolves and although the Walkers are not linked with Western Europe perhaps metaphysically speaking, their magical roots are shared in some wierd ways. I think there was a suggestion that Mercy's power was more like the fae than the werewolves so perhaps in some ways that was the way the werewolves changed before it became warped. Interesting thoughts!!!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 27, 2007, 10:03:17 am
Anyway...it was just something that registered with me during that scene.  (Sometimes I like the subtle stuff more than the action scenes.  I just went to see I Am Legend and found that I preferred the first half of the movie, with Will Smith's character focusing on the "normal" routine of his survival, more interesting than the second half that had all the action.)

I agree with you, that was one of the best parts of the movie. ^^
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 29, 2007, 07:57:55 am
Ok well since there is a thread dedicated to who everyone thinks Mercy should or will choose, I think there should be one discussing her choice! I realize not everyone has gotten or read the book IK yet, so hopefully everyone has seen the SPOILERS warning up top.

Well I always wanted Sam to win, I kinda had a soft spot for him, but I also really liked Adam. I was really worried how it would turn out, whether one died fighting, one end up hating Mercy, or some other bad scenario. I really like how Sam isn't out of the picture, and has stop chasing Mercy. I think now that Adam is the right choice for her...and Sam will have to find another Walker to fall in love with!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: mystify on December 29, 2007, 08:21:52 am
So I finished it last night. I wasn't going to go to sleep until I had. Now I'm sad because it's over but what a great book. I agree with most of what has been said here. One other thing I really liked about this book was how much I learned about the fae and I loved the part where Mercy went to the reservation and went Underhill...or however they put it. I don't have my book near me right now. Anyway that part was great. Also, I really didn't miss the vampires at all. I'm very excited to see where the series goes from here.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 29, 2007, 12:01:04 pm
I think now that Adam is the right choice for her...and Sam will have to find another Walker to fall in love with!


Naw, that would make it too easy!

But I agree, I like how she concluded the love triangle.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 29, 2007, 12:36:23 pm
I think that Sam is going to have even more a tough time- especially now that he realises that his feelings for Mercy is not what him or his wolf thinks it is. Although it helps that he regards her as a packmate- Mercy regards that something in him is broken and even if he finds  another Walker  I doubt that is the answer. He needs to truly love someone and vise versa, He saw Mercy and having kids as a  lifeline but I think now that he knows the truth perhaps he can realise what he really needs and not what he think he wants.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 29, 2007, 12:53:44 pm
Also, I really didn't miss the vampires at all. I'm very excited to see where the series goes from here.

I have to agree, the vampires really aren't my favorite group of people. I do like Stefan, but other than him...eh I like the weres better. I really wonder what the next book will be about. The first was centered around the weres, the second around the vamps, and the third around the fae. I wonder what the fourth will be about? Walkers...maybe skinwalkers? And I also noticed that Patty didn't talk about the young girl that was turned very young in the second book. I can't remember her name, but her father had gone to Mercy to find out who could help his daughter b/c keeping her caged up wasn't working. I wonder if that girl will be in later books. I hope so b/c I would like to know a little more about her and what happens to her.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on December 29, 2007, 02:09:54 pm
You'll see more of both the vampires and the girl (Kera Black, or something like that) in future books.  Remember that Iron Kissed was, chronologically speaking, a very fast book, taking place over just a couple of weeks.  One thing that makes my head hurt is the time offset between the "Mercy" series and the "Charles and Anna" series.  Things happen in the Mercy series that I keep thinking should impact the Anna and Charles series, and then I realize that they haven't happened yet.  This idea of setting two series in the same world, with a few shared characters (like Bran) is crazy.  Having them offset a few months in time is even crazier.   Every time you turn around you're finding that, "no, Bran can't be in Aspen Creek at this time, he was supposed to be in the Tri Cities, or at some conference somewhere.   
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2007, 02:57:55 pm
Today I had the wonderful luck of finding Iron Kissed at my local B&N while browsing.
(http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh141/sassyjinx/100_0133.jpg)

I, of course, had to buy it and I just finished it and OMYGOD. LOVED IT. It made me laugh, it definitely made me cry, but it was the BEST book I've read in a long time. I'm still in awed a bit that it was so good because c'mon, Blood Bound and Moon Called were pretty kick-ass, I had no doubt IK would be good too but .. okay, I have no words. It's that good! [/fangirl moment]

The scene with Ben broke my freaking heart - this is the part where I was already bawling. I've always kinda liked him and this just made me like him ever more. And I'm SO SO glad Mercy choose Adam!

Anyway, I was wondering and I'm not sure where to ask this - but IK and The Alpha and Omega is taking place around the same time, right? I can't wait for Cry Wolf - Ana and Charle's story has already ripped its claws into my gut and will not let go! ;D I can't believe I have to wait until August though, that's just horrible.


Nifty, I'd have to agree with you, I'm not European but I'm also not American and I'm so used to kissing and hugging my close friends but some of them are American and it makes them uncomfortable which in turn makes me uncomfortable because that's how I express my affection. :-\
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 29, 2007, 03:20:38 pm
With Mike's kind permission - there was a post he wrote yesterday regarding the rape and the very frustrating ending of Iron Kissed.  :o
I was about to reply to the post before the board went down but it was saved in cache thingy (yeah I am technically minded :(). I managed to copy and paste it to a friend who couldnt view the page. I later lost the whole page :P
 But she sent me a thank you reply this morning and Nifty and Mike's posts were saved. So YAY
Its a bit spoilery for the next book but dont take this as CANON - things could change especially that Patty just started writing Mercy 4.
Quote

Quote from: Nifty on Today at 10:27:46 AM
I wouldn't want to see them move in together yet.  I know that Adam loves Mercy and vice-versa, and I know they're mated, but they've just acknowledged their feelings for one another.  Seems like they still have some "getting to know you" to do.  I know that sounds weird, all things considered, but that's how I see it.  I would imagine that Mercy would feel a bit "taken over" if suddenly Adam was pushing for cohabitation.

Plus, Adam has Jesse.  I just DON'T see Mercy rushing to get married any time soon, and I have a hard time seeing Adam -- traditional, from-another-era Adam -- shacking up with somebody while his 15-year-old daughter is in the house.  That just seems counter to what I've come to think about Adam as a man and as a father.  With Charles and Anna, I do think it's different.  For one thing, they're unencumbered by responsibilities like children.  But also, Anna is very different from Mercy.  She's learning to stand on her own and gaining some self-confidence, but the Anna in Alpha and Omega was not nearly as independent as Mercy, nor as self-reliant.  (Mostly probably because she wasn't given a chance to be, with the way she was treated in Leo's pack.)  Mercy's independence at this point is more innate and self-driven, but Anna's burgeoning independence and confidence seems more tied to Charles...like he's showing her HOW to stand on her own two feet.

Mike's reply:

Since we're in a spoiler's thread, let me just confirm your suspicions.  They are mated, they're going to eventually get married and try for the traditional HEA (of course, their lives will be a little more complicated than the average couple's).  But, despite the last sentence or two in Iron Kissed, it's too soon for them to jump into bed and call it a marriage.  They both a little time to ease into the next phase of the relationship, and all the changes that entails (for example, why should Mercy keep working at the little shop when Adam is doing so well financially . . . but try to imagine him suggesting that she hang up her wrenches, get her hair done, and go shopping with Honey.  )
The first scene in the next book picks up right where Iron kissed left off -- the make-out scene in Adam's house.  But remember the newspaper article about Mercy being raped?  That sudden spray of gravel in the driveway can only be . . . Mercy's mother.   

But I thought this would help clarify a few things - I know some people were not clear on the ending. But Mike states that although it looked like things were getting heated Adam was never going to rush Mercy or let her rush things. He is also pretty perceptive and is aware of what Mercy is going through. They are going to take time and let things evolve naturally especially after what happened but also they are both have to learn from each other build their relationship. Can I just add is this going to be a running in-joke that when things get heated between them-  are they  going to get interrupted again!  LOL :D
In addition Mercy will bounce back but thats not saying she wont be feeling the affects of the rape-- but next book will be more upbeat! And in that last scene Mercy didnt let Tim win - shes a fighter and a true heroine.
I hated what happened to Mercy and that rape scene and the following aftermath was really emotional - and although it was tough reading about what happened but it shows how much I cared about the characters. And it made the book seem more real I know some authors would have got Adam or the pack to save the day or Mercy herself, which in some ways would have been a cop out because that is not what usually happens in real life.

Edited: ooops sorry folks I forgot to add the second bit of Mike's reply
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 29, 2007, 03:25:17 pm
Anyway, I was wondering and I'm not sure where to ask this - but IK and The Alpha and Omega is taking place around the same time, right? I can't wait for Cry Wolf - Ana and Charle's story has already ripped its claws into my gut and will not let go! ;D I can't believe I have to wait until August though, that's just horrible.

Jane, actually the events of Alpha and Omega take place at about the same time that Moon Called takes place.  Bran mentions that he's going to send Charles (and two others -- although we know from reading A&O that he sent only Charles) to Chicago to find out what Leo was up to.  So A&O is happening during Moon Called.  I'm not sure what the timing of Cry Wolf (the next Charles and Anna) book is, but the excerpt I read has it starting with a funeral...and I kind of wonder if the funeral is Gerry's or Dr. Wallace's -- both of whom were killed at the end of Moon Called.  If that's the case, then you gotta figure that the Charles & Anna series is a bit behind the Mercy series, timewise.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 29, 2007, 03:26:17 pm
Can I just add is this going to be a running in-joke that when things get heated between them-  are they  going to get interrupted again! 

Heatus interruptus.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Jane on December 29, 2007, 03:27:45 pm
Nifty - I forgot about that part in Moon Called but now things do make sense, thanks!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 29, 2007, 03:31:44 pm
Can I just add is this going to be a running in-joke that when things get heated between them-  are they  going to get interrupted again! 

Heatus interruptus.

LOL  good one!

I wonder if the timeline is going to even out- thats got to be hard to figure when, who or where characters and in what places they are in.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Gwendolynn on December 29, 2007, 03:49:16 pm
I am just so grateful the decision was mutual between Mercy and Sam.  I’ve become rather attached to Sam and I didn’t think he would survive if it hadn’t been mutual.  I don’t think he will be well until he finds his mate, but I’m so grateful things are resolved between him and Mercy. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Elle on December 29, 2007, 05:39:14 pm
What do you guys think of starting a timeline over on the Mercy's World section? I think it'd be pretty helpful keeping track of the when of things. :)

I'll just add my 0.02 about IK. How much I love, love, loved it. So many great little moments. The triangle was settled in a way that keeps me loving Sam as a character which I appreciate.

I have to say I'm kinda worried about the fae making anchors in North America, that can't be a good thing.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 29, 2007, 08:15:08 pm
I am just so grateful the decision was mutual between Mercy and Sam.  I’ve become rather attached to Sam and I didn’t think he would survive if it hadn’t been mutual.  I don’t think he will be well until he finds his mate, but I’m so grateful things are resolved between him and Mercy. 

You took the words right out of my brain!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 29, 2007, 08:39:59 pm
And here I don't think he'll be well until he stops /looking/ for a mate. He needs to stop assuming having a mate would fix everything.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: charmed on December 29, 2007, 08:46:37 pm
And here I don't think he'll be well until he stops /looking/ for a mate. He needs to stop assuming having a mate would fix everything.
I was just discussing this with a friend, liek 2 seconds ago.  If you can't be comfortable in your own skin (figuratively that is), another person can't fix that. You make your own happiness.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 29, 2007, 08:57:24 pm
I don't know. I actually think him having a living child that could be turned into a were and survive would make him well. Between his age and all of his children’s deaths is what I believe has made him so ill. I think a mate who loves him and that he loves in return and could also provide him a child like that would be the best remedy. Trying to find a mate like that would be sort of like making his own happiness. So really I think he would need both a mate and children to survive, seeing how he would be happy with children and a mate whom he loves and loves him back. But that is just my opinion.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 29, 2007, 09:04:28 pm
Has he thought about adoption?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 29, 2007, 09:08:06 pm
Has he thought about adoption?

hmmm that would work. Just as long as the kid would survive the Change, but hmmm adoption is always an option!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on December 29, 2007, 09:09:25 pm
*grin* I still don't think having a mate/kid would help him all that much. Though it might give him more of a reason to make an effort.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Iris101 on December 29, 2007, 09:10:26 pm
I think it would help if the kid was his own though...but I havent read IK yet so Im just goin off of MC and BB :(
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 29, 2007, 09:18:41 pm
I just found this on the thread from Sam's I.D.:

First wife died of cholera, his second of old age. His third wife died in childbirth. His wives miscarried eighteen children between them; a handful died in infancy, and only eight lived to their third birthday. One died of old age, four of the plague, three of failing the Change. He has no living children and only one, born before Samuel Changed, made it into adulthood.pg99-MC

I think that would be enough for anyone to go a little crazy, or at least me, because I counted at least 39 children dead, give or take some.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Gwendolynn on December 29, 2007, 11:03:47 pm
Wow.  Sam has had quite the history and I’m ashamed to say I overlooked most of it.   :-[

Zealith has a point.  He needs to come to terms with himself first.  I have always thought he should be a foster-father to all the young werewolves who are changed too early and need guidance.  He needs a purpose in his life more than anything. 

This is why I love these books!  There is so much depth to all the characters! 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Talking_Mouse on December 29, 2007, 11:06:51 pm
I hate to sound unsympathetic to Samuel’s plight, because I am not, however I think we need to remember how many children normally died before reaching their 3 birthday, before modern medicine made infant mortality something we measure in the under 10 in 1000.  More than ½ of the children born didn’t make it to their 3 birthdays.  Look at some of the genealogies of families in the 1600s to get an idea of how fragile babies (and women in childbirth) were.  Take my own family, in what is now Poland as an example, starting in 1718 out of 13 live births (to 2 different wives after the first died in childbirth) 6 made it to age 5, and of those 6 only 4 made it to having kids of their own.   

On to Samuel and Mercy and Samuel’s wolf.  I think in this instance the wolf is smarter than the man.  Samuel’s wolf knows he needs a mate – someone to complement and complete him, not just someone to breed with.  Samuel’s wolf felt sorry for Mercy, which is not the overriding emotion one should feel for a mate.  Samuel either needs an older female werewolf or a human.  For the werewolf it needs to be someone who remembers the things Samuel remembers, like Lincoln’s assignation, what the forest looked like before cars were invented, etc.  True she could not give him children, however she could complement him in being much nearer his equal than a much younger human bride would be able.  I tend to like this idea better than having a human female who could have human children with Samuel.  However, this may be the only route that Samuel the man can see.  As a dominant wolf he wants to protect and protecting a human bride may fulfill this need, since he is not in a pack and protecting his packmates who submit to him. 

With the werewolves outed it may be easier to adopt a human child, or several human children for that matter. Samuel is not outed as a wolf, yet.  However, if he is both money and position are helpful for dealing with authorities.   Samuel has the money, and standing as a doctor, to get an adoption pushed through more quickly than it would normally be done. 

Now here is a slightly radical idea, why can’t Samuel take and “raise” some of the younger werewolves.  I get the feeling that Ben is a young man, and there have to be other rather young werewolves.  I know Kara is an exception, being Changed at 10, however if there are other 15 or 16 year old werewolves that Samuel could “raise” he could be their father in most things but biology.  This would give him “children” that would live a long life, although they would not be children of his body.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Talking_Mouse on December 29, 2007, 11:08:44 pm
I have always thought he should be a foster-father to all the young werewolves who are changed too early and need guidance.  He needs a purpose in his life more than anything. 


GMTA.  You did your post while I was composing mine.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Gwendolynn on December 29, 2007, 11:15:20 pm
I have always thought he should be a foster-father to all the young werewolves who are changed too early and need guidance.  He needs a purpose in his life more than anything. 


GMTA.  You did your post while I was composing mine.
I was just thinking that we must have posted at the same time.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: opramum on December 29, 2007, 11:56:38 pm

"I hated what happened to Mercy and that rape scene and the following aftermath was really
[/quote]

I love Patty. I love how I hear her in what she writes, her character, her sense of humor.  But I put the book down when I got to the rape.  It took me a day to decide to go back and finish it.  I just kept thinking there had to be another way.  Life is hard enough as it is.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: nottled on December 30, 2007, 08:17:39 am
Rape is a terrible, cowardly, awful effin' thing. Whether it's molestation of one who doesn't know any better or outright force on someone who is kicking and screaming. I think it was a beautiful moment, when Ben explained to Adam what it is to be a victim.

How the victim will first and foremost seek to blame themselves. If they thought they'd lead the person on, they'd dressed provocatively, they didn't fight hard enough....whatever the reason, there is a feeling of 'I LET this happen to me.'

I loved Ben's bitter, wry, vulnerable, confession. It was heartbreaking and true and I absolutely loved it. 

He's what I like to call a 'river pebble person.' --A small thing that is one of so many, ravaged by the elements into something hard and beautiful.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Perkinator on December 30, 2007, 09:43:18 am
*
*
*
*
*
Spoilers
*
*
*
Ok..Patty has written a Mercy book that has dealt with Werewolves, Vampires and then the Fae. What do you think will be next? One with walkers or Skin Walkers? The Fae book, who sicked Fidael on Mercy? I think it was him right after the ocean scene. Was it the sea king?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Jane on December 30, 2007, 11:20:26 am
I think next maybe she meets another walker. Oohh, that'd be great!! and of course the vampire would come into play 'cause they want to kill him/her (the walker) and Mercy would get in the middle of trouble, of course.

Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: opramum on December 30, 2007, 11:28:45 am
Ok..Patty has written a Mercy book that has dealt with Werewolves, Vampires and then the Fae. What do you think will be next? One with walkers or Skin Walkers? The Fae book, who sicked Fidael on Mercy? I think it was him right after the ocean scene. Was it the sea king?

Worse.  The next one will be Mercy's mother.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Perkinator on December 30, 2007, 11:50:55 am
Ok..Patty has written a Mercy book that has dealt with Werewolves, Vampires and then the Fae. What do you think will be next? One with walkers or Skin Walkers? The Fae book, who sicked Fidael on Mercy? I think it was him right after the ocean scene. Was it the sea king?

Worse.  The next one will be Mercy's mother.

Moms are scary in their own right.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 30, 2007, 04:26:40 pm
*
*
*
*
*
Spoilers
*
*
*
Ok..Patty has written a Mercy book that has dealt with Werewolves, Vampires and then the Fae. What do you think will be next? One with walkers or Skin Walkers? The Fae book, who sicked Fidael on Mercy? I think it was him right after the ocean scene. Was it the sea king?

That sea fae was pretty scary in a way and I think he was a Grey Lord- I dont think that some of the fae are going to be please that Mercy knows their secret about Underhill and the anchors. And I think they know that she told Sam who would tell Bran about the anchors. It was stated in the book that even if you mention or talk about the fae they would know about it. Will there be a rising tension between the wolves and fae or would they be allies especially with the growth of the anti supernatural groups.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 30, 2007, 05:21:04 pm
The Fae book, who sicked Fidael on Mercy? I think it was him right after the ocean scene. Was it the sea king?

I don't think anyone sicked Fidael on Mercy if I remember correctly. I thought that he knew that she was not to be harmed b/c Nemane had told all the fae not to kill her b/c of Sam, Adam, and Bran. Fidael went to her out of his own will to kill her b/c he missed the flesh of humans. After he killed her he was planning on telling the fae that he was unaware that the death sentence on Mercy had been canceled. I doubt if someone did tell Fidael to kill her that it was the sea king. The sea king is one of the Grey Lords so he would have been one of the people saying no one should harm Mercy, not sending out people to kill her. But hey, you never know.

I loved Ben's bitter, wry, vulnerable, confession. It was heartbreaking and true and I absolutely loved it. 

He's what I like to call a 'river pebble person.' --A small thing that is one of so many, ravaged by the elements into something hard and beautiful.


I really like the way you described him as a 'river pebble person'. I'll have to remember that saying!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 30, 2007, 05:26:41 pm
You'll see more of both the vampires and the girl (Kera Black, or something like that) in future books.  Remember that Iron Kissed was, chronologically speaking, a very fast book, taking place over just a couple of weeks.  One thing that makes my head hurt is the time offset between the "Mercy" series and the "Charles and Anna" series.  Things happen in the Mercy series that I keep thinking should impact the Anna and Charles series, and then I realize that they haven't happened yet.  This idea of setting two series in the same world, with a few shared characters (like Bran) is crazy.  Having them offset a few months in time is even crazier.   Every time you turn around you're finding that, "no, Bran can't be in Aspen Creek at this time, he was supposed to be in the Tri Cities, or at some conference somewhere.   

Thanks for clearing that up Mike ;D! Poor Patty, I hope her brain won't overload with all that thinking she will have to do :(! A timeline would help. Well I'm glad that we'll be seeing more of Kera, she seems like an interesting character!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 30, 2007, 05:30:39 pm
I think its Kara although I am not too sure - although there seems to be loads of Kara's in Mercy's universe I think I am getting them confused with each other. :P
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 30, 2007, 05:43:29 pm
Just got BB back from my mom and found on pg 181:
"He talked to Kara, my daughter."

So you were right Has ;D, it is Kara!!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on December 30, 2007, 05:49:34 pm
Ok so there are like 3 Karas' one who is a lone werewolf, Kara Black the girl that was forced changed and Anna's neighbour. I kept getting confused with two Kara werewolves :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 30, 2007, 05:54:23 pm
Ha that's right! I forgot about all the other Karas!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: nottled on December 30, 2007, 06:41:30 pm
I loved Ben's bitter, wry, vulnerable, confession. It was heartbreaking and true and I absolutely loved it. 

He's what I like to call a 'river pebble person.' --A small thing that is one of so many, ravaged by the elements into something hard and beautiful.


I really like the way you described him as a 'river pebble person'. I'll have to remember that saying!
[/quote]

Thank you Mandy. I have a major soft spot for damaged sweethearts. :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 30, 2007, 06:48:22 pm
The Fae book, who sicked Fidael on Mercy? I think it was him right after the ocean scene. Was it the sea king?

I don't think anyone sicked Fidael on Mercy if I remember correctly. I thought that he knew that she was not to be harmed b/c Nemane had told all the fae not to kill her b/c of Sam, Adam, and Bran. Fidael went to her out of his own will to kill her b/c he missed the flesh of humans. After he killed her he was planning on telling the fae that he was unaware that the death sentence on Mercy had been canceled. I doubt if someone did tell Fidael to kill her that it was the sea king. The sea king is one of the Grey Lords so he would have been one of the people saying no one should harm Mercy, not sending out people to kill her. But hey, you never know.
 

I might have just messed up the quote tags.  Oh, well.
I do think that someone (among the fae) ordered a hit on Mercy.  That's why the Fideal went after her the first time.  The fact that he missed the flesh of humans was just a tasty side bennie.  He was then told that the order had been rescinded, but that was after he'd already tried to kill her.  Don't know what his excuse was for trying the second time, at the end of the book.

But I don't have my book with me so I can't check if what I just wrote is correct or utter rubbish.  My memory sucks, so it could be rubbish. ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mandy on December 30, 2007, 08:08:20 pm
hmmm well I broke out the book and on page 189 when he first attacks her he says:

"The call for you're death has been set," he said. "It is too bad that no one told me until too late that the orders had been recalled."

He then goes on to talk about how long it has been since he has tasted human flesh. He knew the first time that he was doing wrong. I think he was angry that his chance to eat her had been taken away, because I believe on the second attempt to kill her he talks about how he was so great and now is forced to eat only animals. But who knows, knowing Patty there probably was someone who told him to kill her. Eh, this is just me trying to make my English teachers proud, me going back to the book for info and all. Hehe. Guess we'll have to wait and see until the next book!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Ceylonna on December 30, 2007, 08:17:06 pm
I loved the book, but in many ways it was heart wrenching.

- The scene with Ben telling Adam about Mercy crawling had me crying.  And I don't cry over books, darn it!

-The rape scene was handled well. An appropriate use of "fade to black". You know enough of what happens to hope that it wasn't what you thought you just read.  It reminds me a bit of the scene in Deerskin (though I might be misremembering -- it's been a while).

-I didn't think that Patty's comment about the book only lasting a week was a spoiler until I started reading it. It's not a spoiler in the sense of ruining the plot, but it made me keep track of the days while I was reading. And when Mercy talked with Tad, I immediately thought about it and deduced that Tad probably wouldn't make an appearance.

-I'm really interested in seeing how she handles the ending scene.  I actually doubt that Mercy and Adam have sex there. While it's a reasonable reaction on Mercy's part (trying to assure herself/not be bound by the rape), it's not necessarily healthy.  I don't think Adam will go for it until they've talked over stuff and he feels she's recovered more. Plus he's exhausted.  And that's assuming she doesn't have some sort of panic attack first. 

-I really appreciate the comments regarding birth control and STIs.  It made things more realalistic. I don't need long explainations, but a few comments to show these things were thought about go a long way in my book.  However, I had expected Mercy to be offered emergency contraceptive when she was brought to the hospital, since I assumed the hospital visit was due to the rape as the cup was supposed to heal everything else.

Now I need to find other things to read until the next book is out.  When do we get a teaser blurb for book 4?   
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenglows on January 01, 2008, 07:13:30 pm
I love Patty. I love how I hear her in what she writes, her character, her sense of humor.  But I put the book down when I got to the rape.  It took me a day to decide to go back and finish it.  I just kept thinking there had to be another way.  Life is hard enough as it is.

 It was really hard for me to read that part too and Ben's conversation with Adam. It took me almost 3 days to finish the book because I had to take a few emotional breaks. I guess it's a little crazy that I can get so attached to fictional characters. :)

I liked the way the love triangle played out. Sam is my favorite and I'm so happy that he will continue to be involved in Mercy's life and didn't get his feelings crushed  ;D

Zee turned out to be a real bad-ass, eh?  i didn't really see that coming and it was very cool! 8) The Fae characters  mostly freak me out because they are so powerful you don't know what to expect - at all. Anything can happen, reality can just disappear.  It's very unsettling.  I love it!

I wonder if it will be harder for Mercy to get her self into trouble now that Adam and the rest of the pack have "claimed" her?  I wonder if her blood exchange with Stefan will cause a problem with the pack magic?  I guess her Mom might add some interesting twists too- I can't wait until next year!!!



Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on January 01, 2008, 09:47:30 pm
I love Patty. I love how I hear her in what she writes, her character, her sense of humor.  But I put the book down when I got to the rape.  It took me a day to decide to go back and finish it.  I just kept thinking there had to be another way.  Life is hard enough as it is.

Thank you Opramum.   That scene was a tough one.   Patty really struggled with whether to let it play to completion, or have Adam and the wolves show up in the nick of time.  This is a dark an dangerous road.  It changes the character, and makes the next book or two more difficult.  Nobody wants a whiny, angsty character, but it would be unrealistic to have a rape victim bounce back with no effects.  It's hard to read,and books should be entertaining.  It raises some ugly issues that nobody wants to think about; some monsters are real.

We talked about this several times.  The smart decision was probably to play it safe and have the cavalry ride to the rescue in the nick of time.  All the excitement and none of the issues -- it should have been an easy decision.  But rape and sexual assault are all too common in our culture.  They are usually committed in remote locations, selected for privacy, and for many real women the cavalry doesn't arrive in time.  If we consider rape too terrible to inflict on a fictional character, what does that say to all the real victims; the ones who have to deal with all the emotions and misplaced guilt and unanswerable questions?  We decided it wasn't fair to flinch away and take the easy path.  We're still not sure it was a wise decision, but I think it was the right one.

This is not a book about rape.  It's not intended to be a soapbox to voice our opinion.  In the end, it's just an attempt to deal realistically with a heinous, but lamentably common, crime.  In the final analysis, while there's life there's hope, and forgiveness, and healing.

The next book will be less dark, you have our promise.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenglows on January 02, 2008, 12:16:51 pm
yes, I think it was the right decision too.  I hated reading it because it mirrors real life, but it would of been way too perfect- and much less compelling to read- if the cavalry arrived in time. I think the elements ( Mercy being tricked to drink, starting out on a 'date', and Tim's well hidden psycho side) made it very realistic.  There are monsters in the real world and they look like everybody else.

It's hard to read,and books should be entertaining.  It raises some ugly issues that nobody wants to think about; some monsters are real.

We talked about this several times.  The smart decision was probably to play it safe and have the cavalry ride to the rescue in the nick of time.  All the excitement and none of the issues -- it should have been an easy decision.  But rape and sexual assault are all too common in our culture.  They are usually committed in remote locations, selected for privacy, and for many real women the cavalry doesn't arrive in time.  If we consider rape too terrible to inflict on a fictional character, what does that say to all the real victims; the ones who have to deal with all the emotions and misplaced guilt and unanswerable questions?  We decided it wasn't fair to flinch away and take the easy path.  We're still not sure it was a wise decision, but I think it was the right one.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Shy on January 02, 2008, 04:41:04 pm
The odd thing was that the rape scene didn't bother me that much, it was done perfect... eek that sounds bad but she wrote it very well. The after affects of what happened were very ineresting also- how Mercy felt ashamed and guilty while she was still suffering from the after affects of the goblets power.       

I had been trying to figure out how the pick Adam or Sam thing was going to be worked out and wow it was done so simply, and I wasn't expecting it to be simple like that, which was a nice surpirse.

Zee, what color was he again, wasn't it teak... and I feel real stupid but is that a brownish color I keep thinking of the color teal.  ???



 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: nottled on January 02, 2008, 05:06:03 pm
Shy, I agree with you about the rape scene. I think Patty was incredibly brave for even adding it. There's such a huge amount of sensitivity that is required, not many could pull it off. Also, to deny that horrible things happen to wonderful people is a slap in the face to victims world wide. I think it was like you said, perfect.

And yes, teak is brown.  ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Shy on January 02, 2008, 05:51:19 pm
Yes, they do happen to wonderful people and its awful. Plus Mercy rape had a ripple effect that was very realistic, and it was an eye opener about why Ben was the way he is, that yes the same thing can happen to men.

Thanks, that was really buging me when I was trying form a mental picture of Zee, he kept popping in my head as a teal color, which of course is all wrong. :D   
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 03, 2008, 08:17:32 am
I agree with Shy about the ripple affect as well- I just realised something else- Not only this will affect Mercy, but her family, Pack, Adam and Sam, Zee and even Stefan. They are will be going through similar emotions with guilt and anger because of the fact they should be there to protect her. But I also think there might be positive things coming out of Mercy's ordeal- It will definitely make her stronger, shes not the type to let this get to her and that ending showed that. Its great to see that  Adam who, can be dominant is aware of not 'forcing' her to do things against her will even though he had to persuade her to drink from the cup again. You could see and feel his torment there. I think in some ways the aftermath was harder to read than the acutal rape. It was difficult because I was so invested in characters and in the plot - and I felt like I was going through the same things that Mercy and the others were feeling. And that is a good sign of  a fantastic book!.

And dealing about the angst- I dont know if anyone who saw Farscape- but the main Hero gets raped in similar circumstances to Mercy. The woman who raped him  used this pheromone and it made him submit to her against his will. Although the producers could have could have made a big issue - they didnt. There were small signs of him suffering the affects of PTSD but it wasnt overt but the audience could see this- there was also a parallel with the rape of one his shipmates - and they could see and relate to each other because of what they went through. I thought it was really well done, and I think that the series is going to be more along those lines even though the book consisted with dark themes- I really felt that ending was positive. And if Mercy's mum shows up, I can just imagine the humour and chaos thats going to happen. :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenglows on January 03, 2008, 03:17:38 pm
I was really hoping for Sam, but I am so completely satisfied with the way it turned out! I wasn't a huge Adam fan until I read Iron Kissed - but I've been swept up in the Adam Camp I think :) He was amazing through all the events in the book!  I am still hoping that Sam finds himself head-over-heels for someone soon.  I really want him to find a HEA too :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Perkinator on January 03, 2008, 04:41:01 pm
It was appropriate, sometimes bad things happen to good people. What played so very well, was how the little turd Tim used the cup to control Mercy's behavior, which is what she feared about Adam.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Grey Drakkon on January 03, 2008, 07:51:20 pm
O.K., I really like how she made it so it wasn't Sam, that was handled very well.  I don't like her with Adam.  Not because of how he's behaved, I actually liked most of what he was doing in the book, but because of his pack magic hijacking Mercy's will.  He wound up making her into a lust slave AGAIN in this book and it seemed he had no control over it.  I just really don't like that his leadership magic can overpower Mercy's will when she's fully fit. (when she's already loopy from other magic and exhausted, sure that's perfectly fine, but when she's on her game?)  It just really rubs me the wrong way that her willpower can be negated like that, and that it can  happen again in the future. 
   Now, if it was just that his leadership magic was going haywire because of the "weakness" left in the pack and now that things have been decided one way or another it's gone back to normal and he can't override Mercy anymore than that makes me feel better.  (run on sentence anyone?) 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 04, 2008, 06:54:29 am
I dont think that Mercy will ever allow Adam to overpower her at all although she is scared of it. Its more of the fact that she wants to please him and submitting to him will do that and your right its more of a lust thing but whose to say that Adam doesnt feel the same way. At the end of BB he was willing to let her to make all the moves because of the very same thing.

However  she has stood up for herself  and she has done so many times, and with even more dominant wolves. If you look at the scene when Jesse came home after her attack ( Mercy was the only one who didnt submit to Adam's willpower and the shower scene although she was tired she knew that she chose not to fight him partly because she liked being taken care of ;) But she also didn't want to rile him up for something that wasn't his fault) she stood up to him and he was on EDGE. You have to be a very brave or really stupid about pricking a werewolf's temper let alone an Alpha ;D. If it was seen to be his fault well Mercy wouldnt stand down easily at all .
I can see a huge argument brewing about the bill of the repair house- Adam being the old fashion guy he is wont allow his mate pay for the repairs and Mercy you know she isnt going to let that go its a debt she feels that she owes.  ;)

Also another factor is that Adam will probably be even more careful with his dominance/Alpha power too especially after her ordeal- so unless shes in danger  or hurt like after Tim's attack I think he will try to reign in his powers too. And I think they both like riling each other, you can tell they enjoy it- to Adam its a challenge and to Mercy its to see him lose control although they both know they wont ever cross a line.
I think as a couple they really are well matched because they are equal not in the sense of magical abilities or strengths but in terms of people - Mercy wont ever allow Adam to be too regimented/staid in his ways and he will ensure she doesnt go too deep into trouble. Its not going to be plain sailing and there are issues from the inside and out but I am looking forward to seeing this evolve over the series.

I think that is important, when you have a relationship and there inequality it wont really work unless you choose to submit to the more powerful partner or accept the situation.  I also  think you are right about the pack weakness too, I have a theory that this is true with werewolves mating. You  get the sense that Adam's ex couldnt handle the pack and Adam being an Alpha, although he tried to protect her from the worse it probably exacerbated the situation.
But I have a feeling that she just couldnt cope with violence and refused to accept that side of things which is why she turned to bitterness and vindictiveness to get back at him. Its a similar situation with Bran and Leah as well I think and maybe the problem is that both wolf and man need to accept and love their partners, although there are probably mated/married couples in similar circumstances who are quite happy. But it seems to me, that if a werewolf is powerfully dominant maybe its more difficult to be content when only one side of him accepts a partner?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Ceylonna on January 04, 2008, 10:39:09 am
How do people feel about Sam's original interest in Mercy and Pedophilia?  When reading the books, nothing really struck me as odd or gross, but thinking about the stuff latter made me wonder.  We have Sam, a much, much, older adult basically "grooming" a 14 year old girl into falling in love with him.

I realize that he waited until she was a little older and more sexually mature before furthering the romance. I also know that in Samuel's time that age was marriageable.  There just seems something wrong about it-- he was definitely using his adult experience to persuade Mercy when she was at an impressionable age.  I think this is part of the reason Bran stepped in -- Mercy was his responsibility and it was fast heading toward what could easily be considered abuse. (Replace Sam with a 30 or 40 year old human and see how you'd react then.) 

I like how in IB Sam recognizes his error.  I'm also glad they didn't get together.  I think in the long run I'd have trouble with how things originally started. (In addition to other reasons people have mentioned for this being a poor match.)

What do other people think? Am I reading too much into it here?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 04, 2008, 11:04:14 am
I think it was more about desperation of his desire to have healthy children- like Patty said he is a VERY patient hunter. But I do see your point about the age thing - I dont think Sam would ever consider that it was more like I have to stake my claim before other wolves do.  Although you could tell from that conversation with Mercy that  he knew it was wrong that he targeted her in such a way but he saw her as a lifeline.

Also another thing to factor in IK Mercy was a totally different person, obviously at a young age she was, but if she mated with Sam - I think she would never be the independent woman that she is today. And if she did choose Sam it wouldn't have worked out because he would never allow her to do what she wanted i.e kill the vampires. With Adam who would definitely argue with her about doing something like that would accept that she needed to those things- its who she is and he understands that.

My hope now is that he can work through his issues- I think having kids may not be enough for him but I am glad that he sees Mercy as pack and that he is far suited as a packmate than mate mate as Mercy stated in IK :)

But this also raises the question that Mercy is seen to be desirable to other wolves in terms of her fertility- Sam claimed her at a young age and so did Adam shortly before MC. Adam could have just stated to his wolves that she shouldn't be hassled he is the alpha, but he claimed her and he was just as gunshy about embarking on another relationship after the hell he went through with his ex. Although I dont think Adam wants Mercy because she could bear healthy kids - but maybe that was the catalyst about him realising his feelings towards Mercy perhaps?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on January 04, 2008, 11:57:10 am
Can Mercy even be in Sam's 'pack' if she's mated to Adam?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on January 04, 2008, 11:59:43 am
O.K., I really like how she made it so it wasn't Sam, that was handled very well.  I don't like her with Adam.  Not because of how he's behaved, I actually liked most of what he was doing in the book, but because of his pack magic hijacking Mercy's will.  He wound up making her into a lust slave AGAIN in this book and it seemed he had no control over it.  I just really don't like that his leadership magic can overpower Mercy's will when she's fully fit. (when she's already loopy from other magic and exhausted, sure that's perfectly fine, but when she's on her game?)  It just really rubs me the wrong way that her willpower can be negated like that, and that it can  happen again in the future. 
   Now, if it was just that his leadership magic was going haywire because of the "weakness" left in the pack and now that things have been decided one way or another it's gone back to normal and he can't override Mercy anymore than that makes me feel better.  (run on sentence anyone?) 
 

Thank you for putting it so well, Grey; I have the same problem.  I'm looking forward to seeing how it all works out in the end, but for right now, it kind of bugs me, too.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Demi on January 04, 2008, 12:52:49 pm
but because of his pack magic hijacking Mercy's will.  He wound up making her into a lust slave AGAIN in this book and it seemed he had no control over it.

Sorry i dont´find this in the book, maybe i understood you wrong.
May you please give me the pages which brought you to this conclousion?
I only have the scene at the end of the book, when she is weak, hurt and all that,
where he stills her and gives her the drink again.
I surley missed something so thanks for help.

( sry for grammar it´is late in germany now, and i was the half day with the
dictonary reading the book( again), and i am tired now)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Taranis on January 04, 2008, 01:13:20 pm
I don't like her with Adam.  Not because of how he's behaved, I actually liked most of what he was doing in the book, but because of his pack magic hijacking Mercy's will.  He wound up making her into a lust slave AGAIN in this book and it seemed he had no control over it.  I just really don't like that his leadership magic can overpower Mercy's will when she's fully fit. (when she's already loopy from other magic and exhausted, sure that's perfectly fine, but when she's on her game?)  It just really rubs me the wrong way that her willpower can be negated like that, and that it can  happen again in the future. 
   Now, if it was just that his leadership magic was going haywire because of the "weakness" left in the pack and now that things have been decided one way or another it's gone back to normal and he can't override Mercy anymore than that makes me feel better.  (run on sentence anyone?) 

Now, I have to say I'm prejudice because I've always been in the Adam camp ::) but I didn't get that vibe in the book.  My understanding (and I read this until five in the morning, so my clarity might be off! ;D) was that yes, Adam wasn't in full control because of the weakness in the pack.  Mercy was also more suseptable because she wanted him too.  But near the end when Adam was holding her he said that if she could fight off the magic of the cup and all the other things, then she was strong enough to trump his power over her.  Plus, she did end up chosing him anyway, so I think she was at peace with the decision, and I don't think Mercy would have submitted if she knew she was still under his thrall, especially since it scared her so much.  Plus, now that the pack is healed, I don't think the issue would arise again.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Awahili on January 04, 2008, 01:40:04 pm
Can I just say that it was handled fantastically!  I finished the book in under five hours (I think that may be a record for me, I'm not sure).  I loved the way she and Sam reconciled, and it'll be interesting to see that in the next book, especially since he considers her "pack" now. 

I, too, have always been firmly in the Adam camp, but I love the character of Samuel as well.  I think it was handled beautifully, bringing her trauma to the fore without beating us over the head with inane self-pity every other sentence.  But then again, can anyone really see Mercy wallowing in self-pity for too long?  It's the mark of a strong woman to make the conscious decision to love so soon after something like that, and I love Mercy's character more for it.  I just hope Adam realizes the can of worms he's opened.   :D

On another, completely random note, I now think that Ben has risen to take Warren's place as "favorite Columbia Basin Pack Member."  Of course, Warren's still a really close second.  Cheers!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Demi on January 04, 2008, 06:37:19 pm
O.K., I really like how she made it so it wasn't Sam, that was handled very well.  I don't like her with Adam.  Not because of how he's behaved, I actually liked most of what he was doing in the book, but because of his pack magic hijacking Mercy's will.  He wound up making her into a lust slave AGAIN in this book and it seemed he had no control over it.  I just really don't like that his leadership magic can overpower Mercy's will when she's fully fit. (when she's already loopy from other magic and exhausted, sure that's perfectly fine, but when she's on her game?)  It just really rubs me the wrong way that her willpower can be negated like that, and that it can  happen again in the future. 
   Now, if it was just that his leadership magic was going haywire because of the "weakness" left in the pack and now that things have been decided one way or another it's gone back to normal and he can't override Mercy anymore than that makes me feel better.  (run on sentence anyone?) 

It´s 3.30 oclock in the night here. Can´t sleep. So i read and searched what you could have meant.
I did not find it but, i found a possible answer.

In the book Mercy think´s at one point, that she never gave in in love.
The whole book is written from her perspective. It is subjective.

Her fear was ( imho) to give in in love, in Bloodbound, she tried to give Adams magic the reason,
why she was so attracted to him.
But later she realized it was her too. She wanted that. Her fear was to  love Adam.

Because she love´s him, she would do things, she never would have done for anyone else,
not even Bran. Sure she feels his magic, but she did not have to follow like a sheep.
The only point she could not resist him was when she was badly hurt in any way, at the
end of the book. But in any other point that was not the problem ( at least i did not find it,
but my english is really not good, so if i misunderstood something or translated false,
please tell me someone).

Beeing overhelmed by someone you love, is no pack magic, but it is easier to tell
yourself so, if you always wanted to be undependent. Adam showed her that she can
trust him. And he did it in a really lovley way i think. I am happy with her choice,
she did it right ( for me).

try to sleep again now :)
Good night.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on January 05, 2008, 02:43:18 pm
I very much agree with Demi.  I would like to see where you are getting the idea that Adam overwhelmed her with magic, GD.  I really didn't see it anywhere but the end of the book, where, IMO, there were extreme extenuating circumstances. 

First, there are always going to be times that someone will make decisions for you, about you, when you are not in any condition to be making them for yourself.  In some of those instances, a man will make them for a woman.  It doesn't make him a chauvinist, or her weak, it is just necessary sometimes.  Usually when something traumatic has happened and the primary person cannot make (rational) decisions for themselves.  In this case, it was whether or not he should allow Mercy's fear of the cup keep her from accessing its healing powers, thereby causing her to be a cripple for life.  That he used his magic to force the decision on her is little different than when a husband makes decisions for his wife in a hospital, which at the time she may not like, but in the end, she appreciates. 

Second, you need to remember that at the time, Mercy is grateful when Adam uses his magic since he grants her a measure of peace, that allows her to rest until the effect of the cup begins to fade and she is able to come to terms with her rape as herself.

Third, Adam only does so due to the extreme circumstances.  In fact, he is incredibly reluctant to force his will on her, because he worries that he will damage her.  Only secondary is his concern that she will never forgive him.

Fourth, these are not people.  OK, they are, but as Patty points out in the scene between Ben and Adam (LOVED that) they are also wolves and wolves react differently than their human counterparts.  Even Mercy, being coyote, has some pack instinct.  So, while for Adam, the man, to influence a woman he loves is repugnant, Adam, the wolf, is not necessarily bound by those same rules.  His instinct is different, as is Mercy's.  The fact that she is attracted to him and loves him, merely makes the influence stronger.  I find it interesting that we make allowances for numerous other wolfly instincts, but not this one.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on January 05, 2008, 03:06:09 pm
I think the idea of Sam and pedophilia was explored on the old Who will Mercy choose? thread.  (When did the threads change?  You go away for two weeks and everything changes. Sigh)  I think several comments were made about shotguns and such, but overall, we agreed that Sam was not sooo icky.

I have to say that I loved the way that Patty handled the Sam/Adam thing.  When she began talking about Mercy's two decisions, I was like, oh no, what's she going to do?  But I liked that the two decisions were exclusive.  It makes her decision not to be with Sam more meaningful.  It's not just "Oh, I like Adam more" but rather, "I don't love you like that, and you don't love me like that either."  Plus, she doesn't decimate Sam, which I appreciated. (even though I am Team Adam  ;)).

As to the rape, that was really hard to read.  There were parts I kinda skimmed, so I'm going to have to reread soon.  But I agree with Shy, for me the most awful part of the rape was Mercy's reaction to it.  It's Mercy who takes a hit and bounces up to say "What, is that all you got?"  To have her react that way, which I know is totally realistic for a rape victim, was absolutely heartwrenching.  Though I did like when Ben beat Adam over the head with the truth.  Cause 1) I think it is true that alot of guys don't "get" rape, and how it really affects women, and 2) it was just an awesome Ben scene, cause now you really can like him, and not be trying to find a reason to excuse his behavior. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Spryte on January 05, 2008, 07:24:42 pm
I got IK at eight thirty last night. I started reading it in the car (no, I was not driving... I don't even have my learner's permit yet) kept reading it as I got out of the car, walked up to my room, locked the door, and I finished it at about 5:45. I know I should have gone to sleep, but I couldn't make myself. I guess I'll just have to reread the whole thing to make sure I retained it all. What a horrible thing  ::).

I loved it.

It made me laugh and it made me cry.

My favorite part (and the one where I cried the hardest) was when Mercy was still in coyote form after the rape, and it was saying how there was always a pack member with her... Daryll, Aurielle, Honey, Peter, Warren, Ben... It really goes to show how supportive the pack is, and how even the individuals who have had some mile wide nasty streaks before are really good people.

The part where Adam hugged Ben was especially......
Even though I have lived my entire life in America, the no-touch country, it has always irked me that Americans don't make physical contact with people more.... especially when sometimes the thing most needed is just a big hug. It makes me incredibly sad. So I really loved it when Adam showed Ben that it was OK. And right on for Ben telling Adam what was what.

On a lighter note... Sam the musician. I like it. And I am especially glad that the whole Who-should-Mercy-pick thing was resolved in a way that meant both Adam and Sam are still part of the story, and that there is no enmity between them. I'm glad Mercy picked Adam, but that doesn't mean I wanted Sam to be hurt. I kind of like him as a "pack member" of Mercy's. :D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on January 05, 2008, 07:29:51 pm
LOL.  I'm sorry, Spryte, but you remind me of me.  I have a lot of friends who make fun of me for reading while I ride in the car, cross the street, eat my meals - you get it. 

I'm glad you enjoyed it so much.  :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on January 05, 2008, 08:31:52 pm
On a lighter note... Sam the musician. I like it.

The whole Bran as Bard thing is very cool.  It does force me to rethink some things though.  I always imagined him as a peasant farmer (I think someone else said the same thing).  It also makes me wonder if Sam was also a Bard.  Cause way back when, a son would have most likely followed in his father's profession.  Which raises the question of when he became a doctor.  Oh, so many questions, so long till the next book comes out.

Actually, there were several places in the book where I thought. Did Patty put that in just because we've been asking about it?  Or was she always planning on throwing these little clues out?

I read the first 70 pages or so while eating lunch.  In a restaurant.  By myself.  So, don't worry Spryte, you're not the only one  ;D. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Grey Drakkon on January 06, 2008, 12:42:40 am
I very much agree with Demi.  I would like to see where you are getting the idea that Adam overwhelmed her with magic, GD.  I really didn't see it anywhere but the end of the book, where, IMO, there were extreme extenuating circumstances. 

First, there are always going to be times that someone will make decisions for you, about you, when you are not in any condition to be making them for yourself.  In some of those instances, a man will make them for a woman.  It doesn't make him a chauvinist, or her weak, it is just necessary sometimes.  Usually when something traumatic has happened and the primary person cannot make (rational) decisions for themselves.  In this case, it was whether or not he should allow Mercy's fear of the cup keep her from accessing its healing powers, thereby causing her to be a cripple for life.  That he used his magic to force the decision on her is little different than when a husband makes decisions for his wife in a hospital, which at the time she may not like, but in the end, she appreciates. 

Second, you need to remember that at the time, Mercy is grateful when Adam uses his magic since he grants her a measure of peace, that allows her to rest until the effect of the cup begins to fade and she is able to come to terms with her rape as herself.

Third, Adam only does so due to the extreme circumstances.  In fact, he is incredibly reluctant to force his will on her, because he worries that he will damage her.  Only secondary is his concern that she will never forgive him.

Fourth, these are not people.  OK, they are, but as Patty points out in the scene between Ben and Adam (LOVED that) they are also wolves and wolves react differently than their human counterparts.  Even Mercy, being coyote, has some pack instinct.  So, while for Adam, the man, to influence a woman he loves is repugnant, Adam, the wolf, is not necessarily bound by those same rules.  His instinct is different, as is Mercy's.  The fact that she is attracted to him and loves him, merely makes the influence stronger.  I find it interesting that we make allowances for numerous other wolfly instincts, but not this one.

   Nope the cup part wasn't what I was talking about at all, that's the part I said I was O.K. with, because as she said, she was already physically and emotionally exhaused, and on a deep level I bet she knew that he wasn't so much yanking away her will, as giving her BACK what will she'd normally have if she hadn't drank from the cup in the first place (in other words, normally she wouldn't have been ready to go kill herself, even after being brutalized so badly). 

   There was at least one distinct area in this book, and one in the prior book where Mercy KNEW that she had no control over her body with Adam.  In the prior book, it was the scene in the garage when Adam had started off by giving her a back rub, but it had moved on from there...And got interrupted by Adam's daughter.  She KNEW that she would have had sex with him right then even though she didn't want to, especially since she was still thinking of Sam so much.  The scene that I remember clearly in this book (I'd go look it up but I have an irate sleepy kitten on my arms that's barely allowing me to type, plus I'm off to bed in a minute or two, I'll try looking it up tomorrow) was at Adam's house and he had pinned her against the wall.  She described being overcome by his magic again and was terrified afterwards because of the loss of her control, even though she can usually resist his magic.  That's the distinction for me, if she couldn't overcome HER emotions for him that's one thing, but if it's his magic, that's something else.  Having it be his magic smacks too closely of how the cup was used, it took away her will to resist, which is really the only advantage she has over weres, she can resist anything they throw at her.  It may cost her, but she can choose to say "no".  Or rather, SAY "yes" and do her own thing anyways. ;) 

   Holy wall of text batman!  >_<  Oh, and one thing REALLY bothered me.  Adam doesn't swear in front of women, but SLAPPING THEM ON THE ASS is o.k.?!  I would have thought it funny from any other character but him, but hypocricy drives me mad. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Demi on January 06, 2008, 07:04:57 am
In this book i did not find the " having no control over her body" and in the last book,
when she talks with him in the car starts at page (Edit: mine is a handy little ACE Book)
267 and ends at 270, she admits to herself that he was right when he said:

" The only reason you submit to me is because some part of you wants to. I´m willing to admit that my beeing
 alpha brings part of you to the forefront, but it is you who relaxes your guard around me."

 So... :) However i think it´s like a good picture, everybody sees
something else in it, no matter how many things ( A see, a deer, trees for example) are really there.

It is in the eye of who is watching, i guess :)

Edit2:I ´am perfectly happy with this book, i have the feeling i can´t get enough
of the Series anyway.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 06, 2008, 07:23:28 am
Its also partly the fact that Mercy is afraid of losing herself- And being mated to a wolf especially who makes her feel what Adam makes her feel that, its scary for her. In IK when she states she would never give into love displays that but when it comes to the crunch she has the strength to stand up and not give in.

Mercy is really independent and being brought up in a wolf pack and their attitudes towards women its got to be hard to let herself lose herself, especially now that she has an independent nature. I dont think she will let Adam overpower her especially with issues that she feels that she needs to make a stand and I dont think Adam doesnt want to do that either. I think he loves her because of her contrary nature she can stand up to him and he needs someone who can do that. I think I tried to convey that in my earlier post but I agree with Demi and Jeniwee.  :P
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Grey Drakkon on January 06, 2008, 08:36:57 am
Its also partly the fact that Mercy is afraid of losing herself- And being mated to a wolf especially who makes her feel what Adam makes her feel that, its scary for her. In IK when she states she would never give into love displays that but when it comes to the crunch she has the strength to stand up and not give in.

   I definitely agree with that part and that's why Mercy was so gunshy around Adam when it came to going on dates and such.  She had to resolve within herself what exactly being independent means, how much she can bend and just how Adam will take her being so independent.  Like I said, I do think Adam as a human can accept that aspect of her (although I think it'll grate against him far more than he'll want it to when it comes to things he'd normally do for his pack members but Mercy would want no part of) it's the alpha magic messing with how her mind works that I don't like.  The whole "you wouldn't succumb if you didn't REALLY want it" REALLY rubs me the wrong way.  So yeah, she is sexually attracted to him and admires him, thinks he's a really good guy.  Potential mate material.  How much of that would need to be there for the magic to snake through and take away any resistance at all?  I like plenty of guys but I sure as hell wouldn't want them exuding something that made me take that "like/love" to a level I don't want it/am not ready for it to be at.   
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 06, 2008, 09:10:18 am
But I don't think that Alpha magic would really affect her- not when it really counts. Yes there is a sexual basis to it  ;D  But I  don't think when it really matters Mercy wont let that affect her. And Adam knows that, he might not like it but he accepts that. Dont forget he must be feeling something similar, he feels the loss of control and that has got to be destabilsing for a control freak like him. Its not all on Mercy, they just have to learn and muddle their way to reach an agreement with things and I think thats going to be fun  :D

For example I know there is going to be a huge fight over who will pay the bill the damage to Adam's house lol but I don't think Mercy will let him overpower him about that. They like riling each other but that frisson between them is part of their attraction. And although you may feel that he overpowers her, I dont. He treats her as an equal although he can be pretty overbearing and vise versa with Mercy, and that respect and love is a good basis for a relationship; and all relationships has to have a little give or take but that doesn't lessen that person's standing.

I hope that makes sense I am helping sister with her very very long essay and words are starting to the conga on screen at the moment :P
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jackie on January 06, 2008, 10:10:30 am
This whole discussion bring to mind a favorite song of mine.  A few years ago Sinead O'Connor came out with No Man's Woman.  It was very misunderstood at first and a lot of people thought she had gone over the deep end with the religion thing and all.  But if you take the time to listen to at least the refrain it says "I have come too far to  only be No Man's Woman"

What I think it means and what it means to me is that I am strong enough in my Self to be a full partner to another.  I don't need my femaleness to be protected from another's maleness.  My Self is whole in its Self   so I can walk hand in hand with another without loosing my Self.

Now this is hearsay on my part, but if it is actually true, I love the idea.  For Sinead, it is actually a very deeply felt love song to God.  Wow.  Who said faith couldn't be sexy?

Now back to the point. I'm not actually off topic here. Much.

I think that what Mercy has decided in this book is that she does love Adam that way and she no longer needs to be no man's woman to be herself.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 06, 2008, 10:22:52 am
Yep that is what I was trying to articulate thanks Jackie lol

I felt like I was making a muddle of it :P


and talking about songs reflecting the feel of the characters. I felt Amy Winehouse's cover Will you still love me tomorrow totally fits into what Mercy was feeling about the aftermath of the rape. Its more bluesy/soul than the original and the scene where Adam holds her all night comes into my mind now when I hear this song and it makes me teary now.

You can listen to it here via youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ludxpkyrab0
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on January 06, 2008, 10:29:26 am
Well put jackie!  I think you're right.  Mercy's fear stems not so much from being overwhelmed by Adam's magic as losing herself to Adam.

I have gone back and reread those passage GD and, hate to say it, I think you're reading the wrong things into them.

1)  In BB, no mention of magic is made.  In fact, Mercy deliberates whether or not she wants to get physical with Adam and decides to let it happen.  "I was more than willing to accept responsibility for my actions--and allowing him to slide his warm, calloused hands into my hair was definitely and action on my part."  Earlier she says, "My susceptibility to him was one of the reasons I'd been avoiding him."  However, I don't think she's taking about susceptibility to magic, but rather lust.

2) In IK, Adam, NOT Mercy, ends up backed against the wall with Mercy plastered to him.  Sure, he initiates the kiss, but she is certainly a willing and active participant.  And again, magic is never mentioned.

In fact, the only places where he does influence her with magic (when Warren is injured, after Jesse is attacked) it seems mostly to flow from his influence over the entire pack or to ensure the safety of a member of his pack.

She fears his influence, but we never see it used sexually, which I think is your main argument.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 06, 2008, 04:20:15 pm
I'd like to add about Adam's use of Alpharic power during the scene when Jesse comes home after her attack- Mercy feels it but doesn't succumb to it. She later realises this and was proud that she stood up to it.

I think Ben is really insightful and would have known that she was the only one who could have calmed him down perhaps by diverting his attention which she does, although Sam is more dominant it might have exacerbated the situation.

I also noticed another thing its only when Mercy needs to be comforted- albeit sub-consciously that she lets Adam comforts her when he is using his power. I can't see no instances where she actually succumbs to his alpha power- I can only think of the time with Sam during MC is when she collapsed, when he was calming the attention of the pack.

Its more of a pre-cuser of the fact that Mercy isn't alone- yep shes independent but I think IK has illustrated that she is beginning to have a family of her own making. Zee and Tad (a father figure and brother), The pack and Adam, Sam and Bran. Its going to be really interesting to see if her mum appears in the next book, especially after the events of IK Mercy wont be able to push her away like she usually does.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Sofy on January 07, 2008, 12:02:42 am
Yes, they do happen to wonderful people and its awful. Plus Mercy rape had a ripple effect that was very realistic, and it was an eye opener about why Ben was the way he is, that yes the same thing can happen to men.
I second that  :)


I love Iron Kissed. Really. Patty did a great job and it was hard to put down the book. :P

One thing I really appreciated is the clear difference (and evolution) of the relationships between Mercy and the various male characters (Mercy is not like in another serie the point of attraction of every male around  ::) ;) )
- Sam who became more a very close friend than a potential lover at the end,
- Warren the confident,
- Adam the potential lover,
- the new complicty with Ben (I love the little part when Mercy asked him to "frighten" the bully boys)
- Bran "her father" (I like the part where Patty "explained" via Sam how important is Mercy to Bran.)
- Zee a paternal and protective figure (Pretty unusual for a Fae  :P )
and so on.

I really enjoyed this book. *claps to Patty*
Can't wait for the following one.

(btw, only one bad point : there is no French translation... so I can't convert my friends :'( )
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Midangel on January 08, 2008, 09:17:03 am
Iron Kissed I thought was written wonderfully, my favourite book of the series so far. The dynamics of the relationships Mercy has with her friends and love interests envolve in this book and has set the tone for the series.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: touchstone on January 08, 2008, 11:16:24 am
I was really VERY impressed by how genuine Mercy's response to her trauma (during and after) felt. It felt like the reaction of a real person. A lot of books in this genre are full of characters engaging in hand-wringing, angst and woe, but it tends to feel a bit superficial. In contrast, this  was a real and vivid picture of a person who'd been deeply wounded - to the point where I ended the book wondering if there was someone whose pain had given Patty this perspective, and hoping that they were well.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kyra_Athena on January 08, 2008, 03:07:39 pm
I don't have a problem with Adam soothing Mercy after her experience.  If only it was possible for trauma victims to come in and experience an instant calming sensation.  It's a good thing that an alpha has this power.  Imagine an out of control werewolf...  I assume the fairy cup may have healed her spiritually as well or at least helped her. 

Now that Samuel is back to just being Mercy's big brother, I'd really like to see him find someone special.  That said, how about a witch? Are they immortal and could they produce living offspring?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Twine on January 08, 2008, 11:33:17 pm
I really enjoyed how Patty integrated Mercy's relationship non-choice into the way Mercy defeated the villain in IK -- that Mercy didn't give in to being in love with Samual and with Adam, so she would not be destroyed by being enslaved with love for Tim.  I'm very happy with the choice Mercy made but I do think there's more to the relationship issue between Mercy and Adam than Mercy simply being overwhelmed by her feelings of love for Adam (though that is certainly part of the problem for Mercy) -- there is also the threat of Adam's Alpha power overwhelming Mercy.  But this will be a good conflict to see addressed as the series continues.

I think the dojo scene in Blood Bound does show the negative impact of Adam's magic on Mercy.  Adam notices and states that "passive isn't like you" (BB p. 90).  Mercy's passive reaction of pleasure seems similar to what a vampire victim experiences or how Honey described how a young female werewolf would belong to the Alpha and it wouldn't be too terrible (BB p. 110).  On the other hand, if magic was not an influence, Mercy's response could mean that while Mercy is otherwise active and initiative-taking, in the bedroom she wants to be a Submissive to Adam's Dominant.  There aren't any other indicators of that though (yet) and to the contrary, in IK, when they kiss in Adam's hallway, Mercy does take an active role.  This follows from the end of BB, where Adam and Mercy agree that Adam will try to restrain himself from using his Alpha power on her and he'll let her take the lead in dating, kissing, etc, while Mercy acknowledges that part of the problem does lie within herself. 

The scene in Iron Kissed that indicates that there's still an Alpha-magic-related issue is not the cup-drinking scene at the end (where's she's injured) or the kissing in Adam's hallway scene (where she takes the lead), but the scene outside of Mercy's garage when they confront each other over Adam installing the security system.  Adams kisses her without restraint and Mercy thinks that she'd have done anything to please him and fears that Adam was the only Alpha who could make her act against her will (IK p.151).  It's only in a sexual setting that Mercy's partial immunity to magic is completely nullified by the pleasure she takes in pleasing Adam.  Otherwise, she actually takes pleasure in aggrevating Adam and can use her partial immunity to magic to stand up for herself and others against Adam. 

Looking forward, whether or not Adam's Alpha power previously overwhelmed Mercy in a sexual context, the next books could show the entirely speculative impact of Adam's magic on Mercy's post-traumatic rape recovery -- the overwhelming nature of Adam's power could help Mercy in her emotional recovery or it could be rejected by Mercy, with fear/panic providing Mercy the means for resisting.   
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rynogeny on January 09, 2008, 11:09:24 am
I've read through all the replies to this thread, and think my comments will not be repeating something someone else has already said, but if I've missed something, forgive me!

I think it's essential that a distinction be made between Alpha magic (and Mercy's concerns about being susceptible to it) and the desire/lust she feels for Adam.  Although these books are not romances per se, Patty follows some romance genre conventions, one of which is intense desire (i.e., lust) being an indicator of love.  It's quite common in romances for the hero/heroine to feel lust/uncontrollable desire for each other, long before they begin to acknowledge that they're falling in love (or already are) and that's how I read the desire she feels for Adam.

Nowhere in the books (at least that I can remember) is any suggestion made that the Alpha magic can cause physical desire, nor do I see Mercy treating the desire she feels as something Adam is manipulating.  She doesn't want to feel it because she's afraid of being in a relationship with him, but I don't know that she views the lust itself as unnatural and manipulated.

That desire, and her feelings about having it, are different from her concerns about losing her will around him/being susceptible to his Alpha magic, and, in my opinion, is what the entire book (IK) is about. 

Mercy was raised by the wolves without ever completely being apart of them. But what, apart from the fact that she's coyote and not werewolf, prevents her from being part of a pack (be it Bran's or Adam's?) -- I think it's her ability to not be influenced by Alpha magic.  Bran is one of the most powerful werewolves in the world, and yet she's quite proud of her ability to do what she wants around him.  We're told that Samuel is more dominant than Adam, but again, Mercy has no problems disobeying him.  It's only Adam that she has to struggle with in that sense, and because it's so different, it frightens her. 

Why is this? What would cause her to have to struggle to keep her independence with Adam, when she's able to disobey more dominant wolves? I think it's because she is in love with him. That forges a link that's different than her bond with Bran and Samuel (who she loves but is not in love with.)

And yet...the critical thing in this book, the critical lesson Mercy learns is that while she does have to struggle not to automatically yield to Adam...she can do so. The rest of the pack falls to their knees -- Mercy remains standing. The rest of the pack is forced to bow their heads submissively to him -- Mercy looks at him (or chooses to bow her head to calm him, a different thing from having to do so.)  And finally, even Adam tells her that if she managed to resist the fairy cup, even partially, she's strong enough not to give in to his Alpha magic.  I think part of why he loves her is that she has that ability to resist his will, even if it's not as easy for her as it is with Bran.

In the end, I think -- and again, this is very much just my opinion -- that what kept her alone and different, on the edges of the pack rather than part of it, is her ability to resist Alpha magic.  Adam is the one Alpha she finds it hard to do so around, but by bonding with him anyway, by taking the risk and admitting that she might not always be able to resist, she truly becomes part of a pack for the first time in her life.

In other words, although I don't have a clue where Patty will take things from here, I think by mating with him, Mercy is accepting the fact that he's the one Alpha she might not always be able to easily resist. And in return, she gets closer to the sense of belonging she's longed for.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jackie on January 09, 2008, 11:51:19 am
Great job R.  You separated out some thing that I  think we were getting confused on because of Mercy's own confusion (good writing Patty).  Mercy was feeling Adam's infuence on several levels.  She was sexually attracted, she admired him as a ethical person and a good parent, and she could feel his Alphic magic as well. 

 I really like the references to romance conventions as well. You may not be aware, but herself admits to being a romance reader on another thread. 
But Patty is also clearly breaking those conventions because while she refers to the conventions, her relationship to Adam is based on long term respect and friendship.  She knows this man and he has earned her respect.  Adam knows Mercy and she has earned his respect as well.

I am looking forward to seeing what Diana Gabaldon has refered to as the real romance - not the early courtship but day to day loving. ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: jackie on January 09, 2008, 11:59:06 am
Patty has dealt with rape and its after affects in several other books.  She has always done it well.  Not that rape and violence are good things to have in life, but they are there whether we like them or not.  Fiction is a better way of learning to deal with it than experimenting on friends and loved ones who have been forced to deal with it personally.  People don't come with instruction books. sigh.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 09, 2008, 01:58:54 pm
Ditto to that rynogeny  ;D

Although I'd like to add that although I am a romance reader - a relationship that works onscreen or on paper is more about what Jackie stated about respect and friendship. Yes you can have the lust factor that certainly helps  ;D - a couple should also be equals, I have found that in some romance novels albeit the ones I didnt really enjoy the man or the woman tend to overpower their partner's choices or lives. That really puts me off.

I think with Mercy and Adam, yep there is going to be issues between them- and although there is the alpha power in last weeks chat- Patty confirmed that Adam also feels a loss of control when he is with Mercy and that can be as unsettling as Mercy's fear of his Alpha powers. So in some ways they are in a equal footing, they just have to work they way through it.

I like how Patty upends the conventions - Its brings out interesting results. For example in the In Death series Rourke is the more sensitive and therefore more feminine ( I AM NOT saying he is feminine- you know what I am trying to say) while Eve has the more masculine aspects. Its this unconventional flips which brings out more interesting character development.

Other couples I can think of at the moment are from television series - Mulder and Scully (The X-files) and John and Aeryn (Farscape) are quite similar. These unconventional relationships also help to being new insights and stops the writer verging into stereotypes/situations.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rynogeny on January 09, 2008, 03:29:30 pm
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to make it sound as if all romances automatically have the characters lusting after one another before any real relationship is formed. Rather, although some writers do that (and I tend not to read to read their books), I think many romance writers do use intense sexual attraction desire as a way of indicating the characters are in love/falling in love, whether that comes immediately when they meet, or after they've known each other for a while and formed a bond apart from the attraction.  (Which I much prefer.)

Thus while in the real world, people can be in love without experiencing quite that level of desire, I see Mercy's response to Adam as completely normal within a fictional world.  Whether or not she acknowledges it, she is in love with him and thus feels that degree of attraction. She just doesn't want to feel it, at least initially, because other aspects of being in a relationship with him frighten her. (Namely that while she can resist his will in a way his pack can't, it's not as easy for her to do with him as it is with Bran and Samuel, and she's afraid that if she accepts him as her mate, it will be even harder for her to do as she pleases.  As I said in my first post, I think the point of IK was her coming to believe that she will still be able to resist him, even once they've mated.)

Having said that, it would be interesting to know if Mercy and Adam experienced immediate attraction, or if it took a while to develop. And if Adam really is the only Alpha she has any problems at all resisting...when did that start? When they first met, or after they knew each other for a while (i.e., started falling in love?)  Since we don't see the beginning of their relationship, there's no way for us to know.  8)

Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rynogeny on January 09, 2008, 03:31:51 pm


I like how Patty upends the conventions - Its brings out interesting results. For example in the In Death series Rourke is the more sensitive and therefore more feminine ( I AM NOT saying he is feminine- you know what I am trying to say) while Eve has the more masculine aspects. Its this unconventional flips which brings out more interesting character development.

Other couples I can think of at the moment are from television series - Mulder and Scully (The X-files) and John and Aeryn (Farscape) are quite similar. These unconventional relationships also help to being new insights and stops the writer verging into stereotypes/situations.

Meant to say as well that I absolutely agree with this.  Using the conventions by twisting them around makes for more interesting reading. I've never thought of that sensitive/feminine twist on Roarke and Eve, but I think you're absolutely right.  :)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 09, 2008, 04:53:31 pm
Quote
Having said that, it would be interesting to know if Mercy and Adam experienced immediate attraction, or if it took a while to develop. And if Adam really is the only Alpha she has any problems at all resisting...when did that start? When they first met, or after they knew each other for a while (i.e., started falling in love?)


Go and look at the past chat transcripts - they are on the main Hurog page- or here www.hurog.com and go to the chat heading. In some of the chats Patty has let out some tidbits about that- I think in the latest chat - that is not up yet! but there is some sort of timeline about when Adam claimed Mercy as his mate.

I think that was just before the events of Moon Called. But from what I can deduce and this is from hazy memory recall- that Adam was reluctant because of his previous bad relationship with his ex. If you look at it this way they were both burned badly with their exes Mercy with Sam and Adam with Christy.

Mercy has also stated in MC that there was this unwanted attraction between them but there was respect and they liked each other. But I think there was a catalyst for Adam declaring her his mate ( we dont know what that is yet)  and I think this is from last week's chat that there was a rogue werewolf which Bran asked Adam to move over to the Tri-cities to look out for Mercy. But he was still married to his ex at the time it was only a few years later they divorced.
So somewhere between the divorce and MC methinks! I hope thats clear its nearly 1 o'clock my time so forgive me for weird ramblings  ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Grey Drakkon on January 09, 2008, 05:42:26 pm
... but the scene outside of Mercy's garage when they confront each other over Adam installing the security system.  Adams kisses her without restraint and Mercy thinks that she'd have done anything to please him and fears that Adam was the only Alpha who could make her act against her will (IK p.151).  It's only in a sexual setting that Mercy's partial immunity to magic is completely nullified by the pleasure she takes in pleasing Adam.  Otherwise, she actually takes pleasure in aggrevating Adam and can use her partial immunity to magic to stand up for herself and others against Adam. 


   THAT was the scene I was thinking of with the kiss! 

    Thank you for writing so clearly on the matter, you brought up a lot of the things that concerned me about the situation.  In the last chat with Patty, I asked her about this subject, and she said it wasn't all of Mercy being afraid to commit, and it wasn't all Adam's alpha power, but a bit of both that made her so nervous. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: qgirl on January 10, 2008, 11:31:44 am
I hate to sound unsympathetic to Samuel’s plight, because I am not, however I think we need to remember how many children normally died before reaching their 3 birthday, before modern medicine made infant mortality something we measure in the under 10 in 1000.  More than ½ of the children born didn’t make it to their 3 birthdays.  Look at some of the genealogies of families in the 1600s to get an idea of how fragile babies (and women in childbirth) were.  Take my own family, in what is now Poland as an example, starting in 1718 out of 13 live births (to 2 different wives after the first died in childbirth) 6 made it to age 5, and of those 6 only 4 made it to having kids of their own.   

On to Samuel and Mercy and Samuel’s wolf.  I think in this instance the wolf is smarter than the man.  Samuel’s wolf knows he needs a mate – someone to complement and complete him, not just someone to breed with.  Samuel’s wolf felt sorry for Mercy, which is not the overriding emotion one should feel for a mate.  Samuel either needs an older female werewolf or a human.  For the werewolf it needs to be someone who remembers the things Samuel remembers, like Lincoln’s assignation, what the forest looked like before cars were invented, etc.  True she could not give him children, however she could complement him in being much nearer his equal than a much younger human bride would be able.  I tend to like this idea better than having a human female who could have human children with Samuel.  However, this may be the only route that Samuel the man can see.  As a dominant wolf he wants to protect and protecting a human bride may fulfill this need, since he is not in a pack and protecting his packmates who submit to him. 

With the werewolves outed it may be easier to adopt a human child, or several human children for that matter. Samuel is not outed as a wolf, yet.  However, if he is both money and position are helpful for dealing with authorities.   Samuel has the money, and standing as a doctor, to get an adoption pushed through more quickly than it would normally be done. 

Now here is a slightly radical idea, why can’t Samuel take and “raise” some of the younger werewolves.  I get the feeling that Ben is a young man, and there have to be other rather young werewolves.  I know Kara is an exception, being Changed at 10, however if there are other 15 or 16 year old werewolves that Samuel could “raise” he could be their father in most things but biology.  This would give him “children” that would live a long life, although they would not be children of his body.

Regarding the first part of your post.  True.  The difference is that most people that lose  children and spouses don't live hundreds of years to remember.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: lachapakhan on January 12, 2008, 04:17:15 am
i've been waiting eagerly for iron kissed ever since i finished blood bound, but "wow", this book was amazing.

thank you!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: justcourt on January 15, 2008, 05:39:43 pm
My apologies for being so new and already asking crazy questions...However, I kinda wondered something with reading Iron Kissed...I'll give short details so not to spoil nothin for no one who hasn't read it.

Ben and Adam are having themselves a palaver.

Adam leaves the room to fetch Warren.

Ben calls Warren on cell phone and tells him to send Adam back.

If the Weres' hearing is as good as I believe it is...Wouldn't Ben have simply had to call Adam's name out loud to bring him back? Or, just say out loud "Warren, send the boss back up here will ya?" Basically, why use the cell phone? I was kinda under the belief that short of having their ears plugged, there was no where in the house that they'd be that they couldn't hear someone talking.

Now just so I don't present problems without solutions...Here's my theories:

1.  Warren wasn't in the house and by the time Ben made the call neither was Adam.

2.  Ben didn't think Adam would listen to him, but Warren might.

3.  Ben just got the new Iphone and wanted to test his reception in that area (C'mon it could happen, he's a geek after all) so he gave Warren a jingle because Warren also has the Iphone because he's recently become Kyle's kept man and it wouldn't count against their minutes.

Good question.  Okay, here it is.  Yes, Ben could have yelled -- but the phone has many advantages. 
1.  He makes the call to Warren so he can be rude to Adam, knowing Adam will hear it -- but it gives Adam the choice of ignoring it.
2. He would not be giving his Alpha orders -- except by proxy.  And he knows that Adam won't take his anger out on Warren for it.
3. Yelling implies that he is losing control.  The act of calling on the phone puts him in a position of "Adult" dealing with Adam who "stormed" out of the conversation.  It's a subtle, but real postion of power.
4. When he hangs up the phone, the only way Adam can deal with him is by coming back upstairs (unless he wants to yell -- which would make him look stupid).

Best wishes,
Patty




First, I don't believe Ben would have wanted to yell across the house, especially if there were other wolves there that might see it as some kind of weakness [or something] on either or both sides. Second, Warren is Adam's second and therefore more likely to convince the alpha to turn around and listen while if Ben had just yelled, he probably would have gotten even more upset.

Did that help any? That's what I pulled from it [after reading your questions because I didn't find it odd at all. I call my mom when she's in the kitchen and I'm in my room ^^]
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: ruthcatrin on January 15, 2008, 06:29:07 pm
Warren's the pack third, not 2nd, but otherwise I think the whole 'not wanting to be caught ordering around the alpha' theory is probly the correct one.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: justcourt on January 15, 2008, 06:31:56 pm
Warren's the pack third, not 2nd, but otherwise I think the whole 'not wanting to be caught ordering around the alpha' theory is probly the correct one.

I always get the numbers confused because isn't he more dominant than Darryl but just doesn't want to be higher ranked?  :D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: ruthcatrin on January 15, 2008, 06:36:54 pm
Yah, they established in Blood Bound that he was more dominent, but we're left with the impression (I don't THINK it was explicitly stated....) that they worked it out, and Daryl is refered to as the pack's 2nd several times in Iron Kissed.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 15, 2008, 07:16:40 pm
i think ben called on the cell so that it would be more private for mercy's sake, and that adam wouldn't have responded to yelling
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: justcourt on January 15, 2008, 08:56:16 pm
Yah, they established in Blood Bound that he was more dominent, but we're left with the impression (I don't THINK it was explicitly stated....) that they worked it out, and Daryl is reffered to as the pack's 2nd several times in Iron Kissed.

I was just reading over the chat and Patty said that in the next book there would still be some conflict between the 2nd and 3rd so who knows. There will probably be a lot of stuff coming out if Mercy gets into the pack.

i think ben called on the cell so that it would be more private for mercy's sake...

I didn't think about how Mercy might have reacted to the yelling and thrashing about if he had yelled and Adam had come storming in or something. O.o
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Reptyle on January 15, 2008, 10:01:18 pm
This is a thread listed with the title, anyone who doesn't want to know can stay out, Reptyle.
My guess, beyond the question of someone as low ranked as Ben ordering the Alpha back, is that it's Adam's bedroom, for heaven's sake; If any room in the house (other than the safe room with the silver bars downstairs) is soundproofed, this'll be it.  The bath is en suite, so there wouldn't be soundproofing between the two, but between the master bedroom and the rest of the house, yes.
Does that make sense?

OK! If they come after us, then they can't get us all!!  WAAHOO! Let's do it then...

Ok, in response to your theory...I'd imagine that'd be a good idea, but I seem to recall Adam mentioning to Mercy one time that there were a few too many people in the house that would know what they were doing in the event that they began to make whoopie, which I can only imagine (unless he's a kinky devil) that would be in his bedroom...Besides, I thought a few times when she was doctoring up on Jesse that they were in his bedroom and she figured he could hear them anyway.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on January 15, 2008, 10:08:23 pm

Just a quick comment, because we haven't stated many "rules", and I hate to have people getting contradictory information  :(

Basically, what usually happens here (and it works pretty well) is that someone will ask a question, and other people (including myself) chime in with speculation, guesswork or whatever.  At SOME point, Patty takes a few minutes and tries to give a definitive response.  Then the moderators clip all of the responses left by the rest of us and copy it to the "Ask Patty Discussion" thread, and lock the main question.  So, as far as I'm concerned, as long as the question thread isn't locked, comment away.  That actually gives a good head start to the discussion thread when it's created.

Does that make sense?

And, for the record, I'm not sure WHY they used a cell phone.  It might even be a (gasp!) mistake!  ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Sylvia_Hui on January 16, 2008, 01:20:22 am
Speculation:

I think it might have been for Mercy as well, people don't usually yell when attending to someone sick/beaten/scared...she just went threw something really horrible and it would be considered...Rude?

Also Ben might not have known exactly where Adam went, for all we know he could have went for a walk in the backyard and not been within "hearing" range. and since he couldn't leave the room and leave Mercy alone it was just easier to ask someone else to do the leg work to find him without the yelling.

Oh,

and i thought they mentioned something about the other wolves maybe having issues with Warrens sexuality so Warren didn't challenge for Second to help keep the peace....  that just might be me mentally filling in the blanks again tho....
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on January 16, 2008, 07:56:58 am
Maybe we should start a thread in "whatever" about Bob Ross, & other positive people from TV, like Captain Kangaroo and Mr.Rodgers, and Sesame Street.  I love watching Bob Ross on our PBS station.
And, it's true, given the behavior Ben was seeing Mercy exhibit probably made him want to bellow at Adam, & it was his own experience, coupled with the ranking issue, & using his toy, that made him phone instead of traumatizing Mercy further by shouting for Adam.
There.  On topic too. <smile>
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: deva on January 16, 2008, 11:32:22 am
I seem to remember that at one point in IK, Mercy mentioned that since the wolves went downstairs they wouldn't hear her conversation upstairs.  Maybe when she was talking to Honey?  I can't be 100% sure because I am at the office and my book is not.  I will double check when I get home.
So, if Adam left the room I would imagine he went directly downstairs to fetch Warren.  As Warren was Adam's destination in the first place, it would make sense that Ben would call him to tell him to send Adam back upstairs.  I would imagine that by the time Ben called Warren, Adam was within earshot of the phone call on Warren's end anyways. 
Also, I believe that the no yelling thing because Ben doesn't want anyone to know how he is speaking to the Alpha makes sense.  I don't think it would have been a very happy situation if Ben was yelling demands at the Alpha.  It also makes sense that he wouldn't want to upset Mercy more.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 16, 2008, 02:29:28 pm
i do love that samuel wasn't simply told no and they are both fine with it

plus at the end when she simply took her shirt off in answer she could have done it to change and run ;)  but i know she didn't ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 16, 2008, 02:47:10 pm
hahahahahaha :D

Kiersten - Thats torture lol
and anyway isnt it insane for Mercy to run away from a werewolf - Let alone Adam !!!!! :o

Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 16, 2008, 06:37:44 pm
i know its torture, my mind was stil questionablle about her actually making a choice - for sure, that is

and if she caught him off guard it takes him longer to change remember ;)  so she could be a while away and shes normally faster right?  and as for the adam aspect he could send others after her too but still the time changing is a big thing ;) ;D  plus adam respects her so i doubt he would force her or anything, but he would bring her back like he promised
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: malika on January 18, 2008, 07:29:46 pm
Okay, I can't resist putting my two cents in. I think that

a) Ben used the phone because just yelling "Yo ADAM GET YOUR A** BACK IN HERE" probably would have resulted in Adam tearing him into pieces before hearing him out,

and

b) It just made for a better dramatic moment to have him flip that phone out and do the whole clipped British voice thing to Warren (plus Warren's unique situation makes him the most likely to be able to tell Adam something he doesn't want to hear without negative side effects...)

I don't know about anyone else, but that whole scene was so powerful, I could just SEE it happening rather than just reading it. Great stuff...
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 18, 2008, 07:51:45 pm
i always see the scenes instead of just reading them, ben's seech was just soo extra powerful it actually moved me to tears when he explained how she crawled
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Reptyle on January 18, 2008, 08:10:38 pm
I had considered the dramatic thing...I'm guessing that Adam still heard him use the phone...I reckon it depends on how the werewolve's hearing really is.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 18, 2008, 08:12:48 pm
if mercy were in the corner of the second floor and adam were all the way on the other end of the house or on the porch he may have been muffled enough so it would be easier and more private to use a cell phone
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: majenwen on January 19, 2008, 08:53:23 am
As much as I love Sam, I don't think Sam was really a choice as Mercy's mate. I think Mercy was afraid of what would happen to Sam if she rejected him again. She wanted him to be a part of her life again, but had thought that the only way that he would stay would be if she chose him.

If Adam wasn't in the picture, I think she would have struggled on whether or not to accept Sam as a mate. Would she be willing to give up some of her independence if it meant that Sam would be healthy and happy? Until she realized that Sam saw her as pack, like a sister, she had thought that Sam would pine away, and I don't think Mercy could bear knowing that her rejection killed Sam.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 19, 2008, 12:40:28 pm
i think that was part of it but i do think that she did lov him but in the end i think it was just like family love, from both of them
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: malika on January 19, 2008, 03:19:28 pm
I think at one point Mercy says that the wolves wouldn't be able to hear her talking from downstairs, although I'm sure they could hear a yell since she did yell across the yard when the fae was after her and they heard her just fine. It probably depends on the volume and the individual wolf to some degree. Adam could surely hear Ben just fine through the cell phone. I'll bet Ben was just counting on the filter of the info coming through Warren and the phone to protect himself a bit from Adam's ire. As it was, Adam was pretty close to losing it when he came back upstairs, so it seems like a smart decision on Ben's part. Ben being pretty close to the bottom of the pack, he probably doesn't have a whole lot of leeway to challege Adam without getting dead reallllly fast.... I'd be using every trick I could think of to try and avoid that situation if I were him, too. :-)
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 19, 2008, 05:12:01 pm
yup thats what we were thinking plus if the door was closed then it'd be even harder to hear him from downstairs
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Triakel on January 20, 2008, 12:29:55 pm
Hey everyone. I had a thought the other day, and I've just looked and looked for somewhere to post it. Then I remembered how Nifty and Has and some of you had talked about the Walking stick and worrying about fertility, and I thought; here. And also, someone mentioned how happy they were Patty dropped in a line about STI and stuff. So, this is probably the right thread for my thought;

Wouldn't Mercy get a "day-after" pill at the hospital?
I'm also happy she was on the pill, and Sam "Nancy-Drew"-ed a check on sleezeball Tim's medical records, but Mercy was taken to the hospital (she remembered Sam saying she couldn't change yet b/c she was in the hospital), and her rape was obviously reported, so assuming rape-kit and exam is pretty logical.
I thought I'd post the question, b/c I know different states in the US have very different laws about abortion and I thought maybe Washington was one with conservative laws, and so therefore no "day-after" pill. To be clear, I mean the pill you take within 72 hours of unprotected sex (it works like birthcontrol pills, in that it's "period-hormones" makes your "bleed-part" of the cycle happen right now). This is not the same as the abortion pill, so I've just assumed it wouldn't fall under conservative laws banning abortions. But maybe someone knows more about this?`
Here in sweden (as far as I know) it's standard procedure to give a rape victim a day-after pill, unless she doesn't want one (for religous or personal reasons) of course.

/L

Ps. Very interesting posts on Sam and children, the Marrok and the Fae etc. I posted on some other thread about how I thought Bran was seriously old too, and I loved the idea that he's the original Sir Marrok. Also, after reading the posts back and forth, I'm starting to lean towards the "children-won't-cure-what-ails-Sam" school. As a rule I really believe it's important to deal with yourself directly, and not try to heal your hurts by half measures and hiding in other people's love.
Does that make sense? I mean, like an example, with some friends I've noticed they tend to be serial monogamist, getting a new boyfriend just weeks, even days, after the old one. And although everyone is different, and some pp are very emotionally healthy, sometimes it just seems like they try to get away from how they really feel. One of them even sais that's what she did, now that she's had therapy. That she feels so alone and frightened, and how being a couple helps. And nothing wrong with being a couple, but I just don't think two broken people make a whole one, ya know? And that relationships should be because you want to share your lives, not b/c you NEED the other to exist.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 20, 2008, 01:16:32 pm
In the UK a woman who is raped is offered the morning after pill in the hospital - Its also offered in chemists as well and you can get hold of one there without a doctor's prescription. But I think it really depends on the state where Mercy is living in and the laws- although she was on the pill perhaps she took one while they did the rape kit - her memory was hazy and she may not have remembered much with what was going on in the aftermath. Although I am sure Sam who was with her could have ensured she took one while she was being examined if it was policy he didnt seem concerned about her being pregnant when he told her about Tim's STI status.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 01:18:39 pm
i've never heard of the day after pill, interesting idea though.  i just loved this book, no getting past it.  each book keeps getting better and better
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Triakel on January 20, 2008, 01:46:16 pm
I'm gonna go with what you said Has. You're probably right that Sam being unconcerned about her being pregnant is a good sign he KNOWS she can't be pregnant; ia morning after pill.

For Kiersten: well, the morning after pill works as I described (like birthcontrol pills, only for a specific time. Which is btw why you can get pregnant if you use the morning after pill more than once during one moon). And like Has said, it is available to raped women in hospitals (you think it's an EU thing Has?), but also in ordinary pharmacies without a prescription.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 20, 2008, 02:06:46 pm
Mercy was also on the Pill and although if you missed one or took antibiotics you could get pregnant but most of the time its takes awhile to get pregnant if you suddenly stopped taking it because of the pill's affect on the hormones - but it all depends on the level of fertility in a woman.

I think its an EU thing about offering the pill in hospitals- I think most European countries have to have similar laws about these type of things although I am no expert :P
It was only recently allowed to be distributed amongst chemists although there was some controversy because 16 year old girls could legally get it and some people didn't like that because of the whole lack of parental permission/knowledge but the legislation was passed I think due to EU regulation.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Triakel on January 20, 2008, 02:13:00 pm
Yeah, I remember that. It was the same over here. First you had to have a prescription, although that was really easy to get, so basicly as far as I know the only problem with the prescription thing was that since you need to take it withing 72 hours, it could be a bit tight getting hold of a doctor AND getting to the pharmacy. It was my impression that's why it was changed here in Sweden, but I could be wrong. And yeah, I pretty much figured it was an EU thing when what you described sounded exactly like here :D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 20, 2008, 02:18:01 pm
Hi guys, we're straying a bit off topic. :)

You have a great conversation going. Why not start a new topic in the 'Chat' section. Methods of Birth Control. One of the mods can always move the relevant posts over to the new topic so they don't get lost.

Elle
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Triakel on January 20, 2008, 02:22:29 pm
Sorry Elle
*looks bashfull*
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 20, 2008, 02:28:05 pm
Ditto along with Triakel  :-[

Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 05:27:44 pm
I think Mercy loved Sam like you would love an older brother. She loves to push his buttons. I'm the same way with my older brother. I love to make him mad. The same with Bran. She loves to resist him because she knows she can resist Bran's Alpha magic. But with Adam, it's different. She can't easily resist his will like she can with Samuel and Bran. Thus, making her more wary and frightened that she will lose herself to Adam.

In IK, when Adam was talking to Mercy when she was in his bedroom in her coyote form, he was upset that he had to force her to drink out of the fairy cup. He had promised Mercy that he would try and not use his Alpha magic to make her succumb to his will. That's why he allowed Mercy to be the leader, if you will, when they went out. If they were to go on a date, Mercy was the one that planned it. If they were to kiss, once again it was Mercy that made the first move, because she was comfortable.

Then, there was Ben. (Love him to death.) He saw something that Adam didn't. Mercy crawled, not looking at Ben, to the bathroom. When in the ranking of the pack, Ben was the lower wolf. Mercy felt that she betrayed Adam's trust. Thus, she did something wrong and she felt that she had to be punished, so she submitted to a lower wolf, which in this case was Ben.  Then when Adam came into the room to try and comfort Mercy, she cowered. Adam saw it as she was afraid of him because of what he made her do. Adam was beating himself up at having to force Mercy to drink from the fairy cup.

Then at the garage, Mercy had come to the conculison that she wasn't going to choose Sam. And Sam had told Adam that during that night after Mercy and Sam had their conversation. Not only that, but Adam was pissed at Mercy for the whole going to the Bright Future meeting.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 05:31:36 pm
yup, i think they did love each other at first but since she took so long to decide her love for sam turned into a brotherly love.  i felt soo bad when she crawled and ben explained it all to adam
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 05:45:13 pm
And here, Mercy thought Ben hated her. But Ben was crying about what happened to him in his past and for Mercy. He also had guts to stand up to Adam and make him see that Mercy wasn't herself. Adam loves Mercy and he tells her that the rape wasn't her fault.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 20, 2008, 05:45:44 pm
Quote
Then, there was Ben. (Love him to death.) He saw something that Adam didn't. Mercy crawled, not looking at Ben, to the bathroom. When in the ranking of the pack, Ben was the lower wolf. Mercy felt that she betrayed Adam's trust. Thus, she did something wrong and she felt that she had to be punished, so she submitted to a lower wolf, which in this case was Ben.  Then when Adam came into the room to try and comfort Mercy, she cowered. Adam saw it as she was afraid of him because of what he made her do. Adam was beating himself up at having to force Mercy to drink from the fairy cup.

I agree - I also think that Adam along with his self hate and guilt also  mistook Mercy's behaviour as a person who was afraid of being touched due to the rape and add to the fact he forced her to drink from the cup he assumed that this was the case. I am glad that  Ben explains this, because it saved alot of heartache and a misunderstanding that could have caused even more problems between Mercy and Adam.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 05:50:18 pm
And Ben also made Adam realize that Mercy was thinking of running away from her problems. She was thinking of running from people that had caused her pain. Because that's what Tim had made her believe. That she was unloved and unwanted.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 05:53:11 pm
exactly, i love that ben stood up to him and showed adam how he was blind to her feelings
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on January 20, 2008, 05:54:05 pm
He wasn't blind, he was just guilty.  He felt so awful for her, and so guilty for forcing her afterward, that he couldn't see what was right in front of him. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 05:56:06 pm
He was blind because of his guilt. Adam's guilt made him blind to Mercy's body language.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 05:56:23 pm
exactly, so he was blinded by his guily is what i meant
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 06:12:52 pm
Right. And Adam did redeem himself at the end, with the help of Ben. And he also told Mercy that if she ran, he'll go after her. He won't force her to anything that she didn't want to do, but he will go after her and bring her back eventually.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 06:14:12 pm
right, he won't let her go but he won't force her to stay
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 06:15:59 pm
Yep. He's patient. He'll wait for his chance to make his move.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 06:19:06 pm
sure will, and he will get her too
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 20, 2008, 06:20:02 pm
I think he wanted to convey to her that he wasn't going to give up on her and he wanted her and forgave her despite what happened and her self guilt. I think that is what this book is essentially about - a friend pointed this out in her review of the book- that asking for forgiveness is easier. And that final scene is about that, Adam, Mercy and Ben have alot of self hate and guilt because of the helplessness of abuse  rape, and forgiving yourself is a way to move forward.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 06:21:57 pm
wow, thats really deep.  its true too when you think about it thats really what happened, thanks for bringing that out into the light
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 06:22:30 pm
I didn't really think of it that way. For Ben, I mean. Adam and Mercy sure, but not really for Ben.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 20, 2008, 06:31:24 pm
I think it is- I am not an expert but from the impression and feel I got is that there is self hate and guilt Ben recognised it because he saw that with Mercy . And I think thats the same with  abuse victims because they are made to feel that they are to blame- some abusers have claimed that it was the kids that made them just like rapists were led on by the victims. Also  Adam stated to Ben dont let his childhood abuse get to him. He had to let that go and forgive himself I suppose to move on, or otherwise it would get to him and it could end up destroying him.

I better go guys - I really need to go to sleep- but really interesting conversation ;D  I am glad this section is starting to come alive
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 20, 2008, 06:35:26 pm
yeah, thats the inpression i got. it takes a lot to forgive yourself for putting yourself in that position to get hurt. 
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 20, 2008, 08:59:22 pm
That's an interesting look at it. I feel bad for Ben....
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: cyan77 on January 21, 2008, 09:56:01 am
O my gosh...I didn't even make the connection btwn the walking stick and Mercy's fertility...I wonder if since she is the Alpha's mate, any magic fertility of the walking stick will be conveyed to the pack's females?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 21, 2008, 10:03:59 am
i really feel for him and mercy, plus adams position is hard to handle too
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 21, 2008, 10:08:37 am
i don't think it has fertility powers, it was luck not fertility i think we decided on
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 21, 2008, 04:06:29 pm
True but remember in the chat- Patty said something about Mercy raising sheep when the question of the stick came up. I just had an evil thought - what if Mercy has weresheep, there was a horror movie out about evil killer sheep. It can happen :D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 21, 2008, 04:12:42 pm
Me too- I just hope that Ben works through his own demons, perhaps after seeing what  Mercy went through  could help him realise that he needs to forgive himself.  It sounded he went through a similar thing if that  is the case, so he may feel the same guilt and hate.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Triakel on January 21, 2008, 04:19:51 pm
LOL!!!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Woodstock Stir Crazy on January 21, 2008, 08:23:44 pm
I'm sure he will. Ben maybe, in Mercy's colorful vocab, a "rat bastard", but he's a tough guy. He'll pull through, and if Adam, and most likely Mercy, have a say in it, he'll pull through.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rolange on January 22, 2008, 10:31:05 am
I'm finally posting my thoughts on the matter. I got the book two weeks ago but a death in my family kept me from reading it right away. Then, when I did read it, I went through it so fast I knew I missed out on some key points. So, I'm re-reading it now. But I didn't want to get left too far behind in this discussion so I'm posting now. Bear with me, it's long and for that, I apologize.

Well, I can’t say I’m either surprised or totally happy with Mercy’s choice. A part of me still hoped she would have chosen Samuel and I can’t help but think that she’s misjudged him somehow. I mean, he didn’t fall apart the way she believed he would once he realized she wasn’t in love with him. At the same time, the writing was clearly on the wall that her choice would be Adam. But, as far as I'm concerned either choice would have been a win/win situation.

What I don’t get is what Patti alluded to in her chats, and I’ve only read the transcripts. What I’m referring to is how Mercy would start off making a choice and then, it would either change or she would change her mind. I didn’t see that happening in Iron Kissed at all. So, if she made a choice and changed her mind, I didn't see it.

I did like how both Sam and Mercy handled the situation once they both realized that Sam’s wolf didn’t want her and Mercy wasn’t in love with him. I thought it was funny that Mercy still managed to be a little peeved that Samuel’s wolf didn’t want her and the way he teased her about being a girl after all. It was nice and it showed that whatever happens between them Samuel and Mercy are like brother and sister, sharing a bond and, in the end, pack mates. And for that, I’m happy. I just hope that once Mercy and Adam really get together Samuel will stick around and hope he’ll take over Mercy’s trailer once she moves into Adam’s (since I’m sure that’s where it’s eventually headed). I’m also happy that Samuel didn’t waste time and went straight over to Adam’s to tell him his wolf is renouncing his claim on Mercy. That was very big of him but I would have liked to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation! I also hope that Samuel will find his own mate, someone he can also love in their human form unlike his father. Poor Bran!

As for Adam, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I like him. A lot. Sexy brick that he is, lol! And while part of me wishes Samuel had won, I’m also glad that Adam did. Although, Mercy hasn’t gone through the formal response of telling Adam so, but who can blame her? She’s been through a lot. Adam knows though, as he said, she’s gone to him twice now that she’s had trouble and twice is as good as a declaration.

And while I really hope that Mercy and Adam can get physical sometime soon, I also hope that Mercy will allow herself time to heal from her rape. At the end of the book she seemed to gather strength from the determination not to let Tim win but at the same time, having sex to prove a point would do more harm than good and I hope Adam sees that as well. A part of me wondered if Mercy was actually getting ready to change into the coyote when she took her shirt off but I’m guessing that’s not so.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 22, 2008, 11:48:14 am
Quote
And while I really hope that Mercy and Adam can get physical sometime soon, I also hope that Mercy will allow herself time to heal from her rape. At the end of the book she seemed to gather strength from the determination not to let Tim win but at the same time, having sex to prove a point would do more harm than good and I hope Adam sees that as well. A part of me wondered if Mercy was actually getting ready to change into the coyote when she took her shirt off but I’m guessing that’s not so.

You know what ?  I have reread that scene and although it looks like that Mercy looks like she is going to initiate sex but  I dont think that is the case, because it is too soon. Adam wont let her and I dont think Mercy herself is ready as well.
But I think she took off her shirt to prove to herself that Tim didnt win and to answer  Adam's question about being his mate. Although she never actually vocalised it, her actions and thoughts especially in the last few chapters already illustrated that she chose Adam. And also Adam despite him proclaiming that she chose him - he needs to see that she is 100% behind her decision about him, in the last page he kept asking her what she decided on about him.
I think she must still feel guilt about the whole thing and perhaps she needs to make herself vulnerable and she wants him to be sure of her as well I think. Also it was a way for him to stop asking questions lol for a moment  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rolange on January 22, 2008, 12:18:25 pm
I sort of agree with you Has. I think Mercy is trying to prove a point that Tim will not win, maybe she'll hold back on the sex yet. I hope so. And if she doesn't then I hope that Adam will. I also think that Adam needs to hear, or at least feel from Mercy that she wants to be with him. She may not be able to vocalize it yet but perhaps, by the last scene, she's trying to show him. Still, I think it's too soon.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 22, 2008, 12:42:18 pm
I dont think Adam would let her do that, although Mercy may feel that she has something to prove. - check out post 26 in this thread. Mike posted an explanation which basically confims what we are thinking about that scene and also a tidbit about the next book.
http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=635.15

I have a feeling its more like that they both have to confirm that they are mates both to each other and to have that conversation that they really need to work out stuff between them. I think Mercy deep down knows that it is too soon as well- I think she really doesn't want to let the rape affect her in that way its, but Adam wont push her and he wont let rush things either.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 22, 2008, 07:19:17 pm
 :'(  i missed the chat

but that'd be interesting, could sheep be werewolves? or would she give them to stefan and the vamps for repayment if they catch her ;)  joking :D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rolange on January 23, 2008, 05:38:55 am
:'(  i missed the chat

but that'd be interesting, could sheep be werewolves? or would she give them to stefan and the vamps for repayment if they catch her ;)  joking :D

I missed the chat too, but could what Patti said be a pun? I mean, in the book the stick affected the fertility of the farmer's sheep. Now, Mercy has the stick. She has no sheep, but she's also a fertile woman. Maybe Patti meant that Mercy would be raising children but said sheep to give us something to chew on? I don't know, that's just my poor mind thinking with only one cup of coffee in me. The stick does worry me a bit though, since the farmer lost everything he had when he lost the stick. It also seems to me the stick has it's own mind on how long it will be around. I also wonder how Mercy's low immunity to magic will affect her relationship to the stick?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 24, 2008, 07:43:40 am
maybe if she doesn't use it, or abuse it, like the farmer did it won't destroy her life when it leaves
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: errant_angel on January 24, 2008, 10:16:14 pm
 But it really looks like that he really admires Mercy and I think there maybe a bond between them because of their previous experiences regarding rape/abuse. You could see that when Mercy took Ben to scare the bullies away ;D
I also think that Ben is very insightful about how the pack is run and its relationships- Although Adam was on edge after Jesse's attack he knew that Mercy could calm Adam down, and in some ways knows more about their relationship than they really do.


I agree that Ben admires Mercy more than I think even Ben knew. The way he talks about her and how she would never crawl otherwise. But also the way he reacted the first time she was in trouble... he was the first to come to her aide. Fine he jumped through the window and she got her but I think that's him just not thinking. I really like Ben a whole lot more after this one. I am really hoping to see a whole lot more of him in the future and more of his story.

I officially have read it three times and still can't get enough. I just think we need either the books close together or for them to be longer  :P  I just want more!  Can't wait till we also have alpha and omega inbetween.... maybe we can also see some other side books on the other wolves as well!! there are more than a few I would like to a whole lot more of... ugh hum BRAN, BEN, HONEY... just to name few.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: rolange on January 25, 2008, 06:18:09 am
I officially have read it three times and still can't get enough. I just think we need either the books close together or for them to be longer  :P  I just want more!  Can't wait till we also have alpha and omega inbetween.... maybe we can also see some other side books on the other wolves as well!! there are more than a few I would like to a whole lot more of... ugh hum BRAN, BEN, HONEY... just to name few.

Let's not forget Sam! I would love to see more of Sam and his interactions with his family, Bran and Charles.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 25, 2008, 10:12:53 am
yeah, i think ben really does admire mercy.  he risks a lot for her and they now have a greater bond.  its a good way to twist the rape into a bond between them also and not just a tragedy (which it is don't get me wrong) but this way it also has a sort of silver lining
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on January 28, 2008, 06:57:42 am
So, I'm shocked to see that I had to wait a full month longer than you over there for the book. :(

However, the last three chapters or so where though on me as I had to continually place it down and blink away my tears. (I'm such a wuss :P)
The rape was handled extremly well (it's one of my pet peeves with a lot werewolf novels) and she put the focus here where it was needed, not going overly exploitive like other authors tend to.

Having wondered about Ben's past since the first book I must admit that was a revelation I most certainly didn't expect, kudos for that.

I wondered a little that Mercy didn't get who's the culprit on her own, or at least sooner, but then again given that it's hinted that the fae can appear as whom ever they want it still might have been one of 'em who killed O'Donnell.

And I'm quite contend with Mercy's choice, I love every moment of her with Jesse so I hope this means we might get more of that. :)

What else is there to give some unqualified coment to?
The walking stick and the ewes ... quite frankly that thought never occured to me while reading, and now seeing it mentioned and thinking about it ... ehww.


You'll see more of both the vampires and the girl (Kera Black, or something like that) in future books.  Remember that Iron Kissed was, chronologically speaking, a very fast book, taking place over just a couple of weeks.  One thing that makes my head hurt is the time offset between the "Mercy" series and the "Charles and Anna" series.  Things happen in the Mercy series that I keep thinking should impact the Anna and Charles series, and then I realize that they haven't happened yet.  This idea of setting two series in the same world, with a few shared characters (like Bran) is crazy.  Having them offset a few months in time is even crazier.   Every time you turn around you're finding that, "no, Bran can't be in Aspen Creek at this time, he was supposed to be in the Tri Cities, or at some conference somewhere.   
Haven't read the story in On the Prowl yet, but I assumed when I read that it's about a different pack that this would be the crossover-point (the girl I mean) to the Mercy series of books, didn't now about the different time set, though. That's what you get when you assume...
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Good Mazoku on January 29, 2008, 05:21:55 am
I got IK at eight thirty last night. I started reading it in the car (no, I was not driving... I don't even have my learner's permit yet) kept reading it as I got out of the car, walked up to my room, locked the door, and I finished it at about 5:45. I know I should have gone to sleep, but I couldn't make myself. I guess I'll just have to reread the whole thing to make sure I retained it all. What a horrible thing  ::).

You're not alone Spryte, I started it at 11AM and put it down at 5PM: I didn't even realize I hadn't had lunch!!! >______<
I loved this book, every part of it: I'm happy that the "contest" between Adam and Sam ended well, without the "rejected" one hurt (and come to think of it, there's no rejected one, since Sam gave up on his own), and I loved the way Patty ended the final.
And, man, I liked Ben but now he's one of my favorite!!! ;D

Me wants more... T_T
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on January 29, 2008, 07:45:51 pm
Quote from: Mike Briggs on December 29, 2007, 04:09:54 PM
You'll see more of both the vampires and the girl (Kera Black, or something like that) in future books.  Remember that Iron Kissed was, chronologically speaking, a very fast book, taking place over just a couple of weeks.  One thing that makes my head hurt is the time offset between the "Mercy" series and the "Charles and Anna" series.  Things happen in the Mercy series that I keep thinking should impact the Anna and Charles series, and then I realize that they haven't happened yet.  This idea of setting two series in the same world, with a few shared characters (like Bran) is crazy.  Having them offset a few months in time is even crazier.   Every time you turn around you're finding that, "no, Bran can't be in Aspen Creek at this time, he was supposed to be in the Tri Cities, or at some conference somewhere.   


yeah thats got to be hard, i keep thinking the same thing, like how is charles going to take mercy's rape and handle it in the government, but he doesn't know because it hasn't happened in his series :P
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Amber on March 04, 2008, 04:37:25 pm


I thought I'd post the question, b/c I know different states in the US have very different laws about abortion and I thought maybe Washington was one with conservative laws, and so therefore no "day-after" pill.

I realize that I'm chimming in on this late but I didn't see that anyone answered that question so in answer to your question, no Washington actually has fairly liberal laws reagrding abotion and birth control, we are a blue state after all. As far as I understand KGH offers the morning after pill to rape victims but there has been some controversy and the tri-cities is somewhat more conservative than the rest of the state. Anyway, I hope that helps answer your question.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 04, 2008, 05:13:23 pm


I thought I'd post the question, b/c I know different states in the US have very different laws about abortion and I thought maybe Washington was one with conservative laws, and so therefore no "day-after" pill.

I realize that I'm chiming in on this late but I didn't see that anyone answered that question so in answer to your question, no Washington actually has fairly liberal laws reagrding abotion and birth control, we are a blue state after all. As far as I understand KGH offers the morning after pill to rape victims but there has been some controversy and the tri-cities is somewhat more conservative than the rest of the state. Anyway, I hope that helps answer your question.
In Seattle Washington there are sometimes news stories about individual pharmacists who refuse to dispense it.  The various legislative bodies are trying to define the legal position regarding this.  As best I recall, the current ruling is that if that pharmacist refuses to dispense it, someone else must be available to do so.
Title: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: photodyer on March 19, 2008, 03:30:02 pm
I was wondering if I could trouble someone to post a small passage as I had to return "Iron Kissed" to the library last week.

If I remember correctly, while conversing with Adam, Mercy shared an interesting phrase that serves as a "stand in" for most of the major cuss words common to American-speak.  I didn't think to write it down at the time and wanted to remember it . . . could someone who has the book handy please post the excerpt?

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on March 19, 2008, 03:40:03 pm
Here you go photodyer and welcome to the boards :D

"Cheeses crusty, got all musty, got damp on the stone of a peach," I agreed. He looked blank, so I repeated it with proper emphasis. "ChEE-zes crustry. Got Al-musty. Got DAMp on the StoneofapeaCH."

I am using this as an excuse to reread one of my favorite Mercy and Adam moments :D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Grey Drakkon on March 19, 2008, 03:55:54 pm
...I still don't get it.  I'll just stick to swearing when I feel the need. :P
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on March 19, 2008, 04:00:06 pm
I know the last 3 but I kinda get the first one not sure though!


I sometimes say oh sugar when I need to substitute swear words or use the sci fi ones like Frak or Frell :D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: jackie on March 19, 2008, 04:00:55 pm
Just read it out loud quickly (like you just stubbed a toe) and it will become clear.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on March 19, 2008, 04:08:20 pm
I totally misread that then  :D lol

But thanks that makes much more sense now  :P
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: photodyer on March 19, 2008, 09:23:26 pm
Many thanks, Has, both for the quote and the welcome!  I happened onto the Mercy series kinda sideways from a Kim Harrison referral on Amazon . . . I've enjoyed the series so far and look forward to exploring Briggs' other works.

My 7 and 10 year old children are expressing awareness of swearing here recently (either with "You shouldn't say that"! or testing the waters . . .), so it's time to step up efforts to make less "controversial" language choices.  I figure I'll start chanting Mercy's little ditty and a few other choice subs in my head daily in an effort to make them more "reflexive".

Thanks again!

Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Patti L. on March 19, 2008, 09:34:29 pm
I've enjoyed the series so far and look forward to exploring Briggs' other works.

My 7 and 10 year old children are expressing awareness of swearing here recently (either with "You shouldn't say that"! or testing the waters . . .), so it's time to step up efforts to make less "controversial" language choices.  I figure I'll start chanting Mercy's little ditty and a few other choice subs in my head daily in an effort to make them more "reflexive".

Welcome!  May I invite you to carry this subject to either one of the language threads or 'random'?  I've got some little ideas for you.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: CheeseBK on March 20, 2008, 01:33:38 am
OMG... I am all proud... me not native speaker that I am figured it out after reading it five times *g*  but I totally understand Adam's blank face ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on March 20, 2008, 08:09:17 am
OMG... I am all proud... me not native speaker that I am figured it out after reading it five times *g*  but I totally understand Adam's blank face ;) ;) ;)

When I read that bit - I definitely felt Adam's bemusement :D
I also have a feeling that he will have that blank face with many of his future conversations with Mercy ;D 
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Cerulean on March 20, 2008, 08:05:03 pm
Just read it out loud quickly (like you just stubbed a toe) and it will become clear.

Ah ah! Now I see it :) Or hear it, rather ;)
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Iris101 on March 20, 2008, 09:12:50 pm
Reading it fast actually worked :D  After a million times, I wish that I had known that sooner LOL
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on March 21, 2008, 02:43:39 am
I'm so glad I was not the only one who felt like a dunce when reading that :D
But I think that was the main aim for Mercy anyway lol
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on April 01, 2008, 11:48:04 am
woah that makes a ton of sense!  i never even thought about the fact that yelling looks like he's loosing control.

thanks patty XD
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Nifty on April 16, 2008, 09:53:15 am
My 7 and 10 year old children are expressing awareness of swearing here recently (either with "You shouldn't say that"! or testing the waters . . .), so it's time to step up efforts to make less "controversial" language choices.  I figure I'll start chanting Mercy's little ditty and a few other choice subs in my head daily in an effort to make them more "reflexive".

I love those Orbit gum commercials that have the characters swearing by using normal words. 

A woman bursts into an office holding a box. She scowlingly says to her husband: "You son of a biscuit-eating bulldog."
Husband: What the French, toast?
Wife: Did you think I wouldn't find out about your little doo doo head cootie queen?
Mistress: Who are you calling a cootie queen? You lint-licker!
Wife: Pickle you, kumquat!
Husband: You're overreacting.
Wife: No, Bill, overreacting was when I put your convertible into a wood chipper, Stinky McStinkface!
Mistress: You Hoboken.

Makes me grin everytime I see it.  Pickle you, kumquat.  Hahahahaha.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: jackie on April 16, 2008, 05:20:22 pm
Americans, and to some extent, the English, are not very good at cursing and carrying on in an interesting way.  Though I've heard some really good stuff by Southern ladies and african americans.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: CheeseBK on April 17, 2008, 03:43:15 am
I can swear like a sailor... in german that is of course. or rather in my austrian dialect ;)
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Good Mazoku on April 17, 2008, 12:10:12 pm
Americans, and to some extent, the English, are not very good at cursing and carrying on in an interesting way.  Though I've heard some really good stuff by Southern ladies and african americans.

You have no idea the stuff italian people can come up with... *mazoku shaking her head sadly* And I have to confess I can get pretty creative at times...though usually not when someone can hear me... ;)
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on April 17, 2008, 12:30:38 pm
You should hear some swearing/cursing in arabic- they are pretty imaginative and funny :D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Elle on April 17, 2008, 01:02:30 pm
Heading over a bit too much into offtopicness.  :P

Go ahead and start a new topic in the chat section regarding international swearing. lol
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: lachapakhan on May 27, 2008, 08:19:42 am
when i re-read iron kissed, i noticed something shocking, right at the very end ... maybe you all can tell me whether or not i'm imagining things.

right after mercy comes out of the bathroom, while she's mulling things over in her mind and thinking about adam, she compares adam to tim and says something like "tim was a loser anyway."

when i re-read this, it seemed suddenly like she was comparing two loves in her life ... adam and TIM. i think she still loved tim, even at the very end of the book, even though she killed him, even though he was 'a loser'.

i'm not suggesting in any manner that tim was worthy of her love, just that orfino's influence was more incredibly and horrifically, powerful than it already appeared to be.

any thoughts on the matter?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on May 27, 2008, 08:31:52 am
Hi lachapakhan :)

I asked Patty about the emotional effects of the cup on Mercy. Patty explained here

Quote
Her feelins for Tim will dissipate -- though she will always remember how she felt about him.  Just like a bad relationship <grin>.  As for how she feels . . . I think by the end of Iron Kissed she is finally starting to sort things out according to her own rules.  It is never easy to kill someone (or shouldn't be, not if you are a sane and healthy individual) and so her feelings about killing him are mixed.  But not for long.  He needed neutralizing (jail or death) and to protect herself she killed him.  Not something she'll feel horrible about for the rest of her life, especially since if she hadn't killed him, Adam would have -- and the consequences would have been a lot worse for the people she loves.
Patty

http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=884.0

But you are right about the power of the cup which is scary in the wrong hands - I wonder if we will see it again later in future books.
Another thing is that Mercy compares Adam to Tim even before he rapes her - I think its during that moment that she realises and admits to herself that she loves him because although the cup/Tim is forcing her to 'love' him- she constantly refers back to Adam and how he wont want her again.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Iris101 on May 27, 2008, 03:49:03 pm
I wonder if Adam is just going to bottle it all up inside of him now, or do you guys think they'll actually talk about it or will Adam be to afraid of scaring her away if he tries to bring it up?
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Has on May 28, 2008, 04:54:49 am
I think they need to talk things over - which hopefully help heal from the hell they went through. Bottling things up isnt healthy and if Adam bottles stuff up - it wont help Mercy to deal with the aftermath and that goes both ways as well with Mercy.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: bookaholic219 on June 06, 2008, 07:26:57 am
Yahoo! i love this book i have always been rooting for adam anyway . no offense to the sam lovers out there but he was a bit to controing for me. i cant wait until bone crossed or any of my other books.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: bookaholic219 on June 06, 2008, 07:40:32 am
Here you go photodyer and welcome to the boards :D

"Cheeses crusty, got all musty, got damp on the stone of a peach," I agreed. He looked blank, so I repeated it with proper emphasis. "ChEE-zes crustry. Got Al-musty. Got DAMp on the StoneofapeaCH."

I am using this as an excuse to reread one of my favorite Mercy and Adam moments :D
thank you ive been looking for this forever and you say it was in IK ? odd i thought it was the other two.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Snoopy on June 06, 2008, 07:46:11 am

*sigh*
I still don't hear/get it... I've said it to myself about a thousand times... gah!!
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on June 06, 2008, 07:52:44 am
Snoopy check your pm ;)

I didnt want to post it here - but I think that is what it means :D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Snoopy on June 06, 2008, 07:56:57 am

Thanks Has!!!!  :)
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Kitarsha on June 07, 2008, 03:39:11 am
Anyone want to PM me too?  I've read it and read it and read it...and still don't get it  :D  Mind you i'm guessin it will be a 'of course!!!' type moment when i find out  ;D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on June 07, 2008, 03:48:28 am
Hey Kitarsha- sent you a pm. Perhaps we should get it translated because it looks like there are still a few readers who are confused about this :D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Snoopy on June 07, 2008, 03:52:44 am

Hee hee, that means you just got two PM's on it Kitarsha.

Ah, Has, that's too easy - although look who's talking, I didn't get it without your help, so I should probably be quiet on the subject.
I did try very hard before sending out that call for help though...
 :D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Has on June 07, 2008, 04:08:40 am
Hey I didnt get it until someone said to say it out loud and say it fast. Although I got the last half - I had trouble deciphering the middle part ;)
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Snoopy on June 07, 2008, 04:20:13 am
Hey I didnt get it until someone said to say it out loud and say it fast.

I didn't get it even then!!  :D ;D
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: bookaholic219 on June 20, 2008, 06:42:33 pm
I know the last 3 but I kinda get the first one not sure though!


I sometimes say oh sugar when I need to substitute swear words or use the sci fi ones like Frak or Frell :D

the first one is jesus but i usually use food instead " what the fruit?"
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: Patti L. on June 20, 2008, 08:54:24 pm
Take the t & e out of 'stone' & replace the P with a b.  I bet you'll get it then.
Title: Re: Mercy's expletive substitute?
Post by: DogPatch on June 21, 2008, 06:04:33 am
I had trouble with it when I read it, too.  My husband was watching the race and I was repeating the words over and over again.  He kept looking at me like he had done something wrong and I was mad at him.  Poor guy. ;D
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: octopippo on August 22, 2008, 11:04:28 am

Thank you Opramum.   That scene was a tough one.   Patty really struggled with whether to let it play to completion, or have Adam and the wolves show up in the nick of time.  This is a dark an dangerous road.  It changes the character, and makes the next book or two more difficult.  Nobody wants a whiny, angsty character, but it would be unrealistic to have a rape victim bounce back with no effects.  It's hard to read,and books should be entertaining.  It raises some ugly issues that nobody wants to think about; some monsters are real.

We talked about this several times.  The smart decision was probably to play it safe and have the cavalry ride to the rescue in the nick of time.  All the excitement and none of the issues -- it should have been an easy decision.  But rape and sexual assault are all too common in our culture.  They are usually committed in remote locations, selected for privacy, and for many real women the cavalry doesn't arrive in time.  If we consider rape too terrible to inflict on a fictional character, what does that say to all the real victims; the ones who have to deal with all the emotions and misplaced guilt and unanswerable questions?  We decided it wasn't fair to flinch away and take the easy path.  We're still not sure it was a wise decision, but I think it was the right one.

i have no problems with it being unrealistic, it is fiction after all.
you know those car car commercials where the group of friends are just driving along and talking and then BAM! another car hits them!!! i always cringe when i see it and sometimes turn away, because i got into a bad car accident like that once. and it was just like that unassuming and unexpected, so i can't even imagine what it must be like for a rape victim to read the end of this book.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: readalot on December 08, 2010, 09:52:37 pm
I think this book is simply amazing, i love you Ms. Briggs remains true to her characters while also allowing them to have growth. I really liked how she ended up with adam(sooo obvious!) I also really liked how we were able to learn more about the fae.

My favorite part of the book is when Mercy smashes Tim up! Ms. Briggs was able to do what so many other authors have most spatacularly failed at. She did justice to the event. Tim made mercy love and want him. Yet still she faught. (as is her nature) The scene was overly descriptive, (which is just sicking...do we really NEED the details?) After Mercy freed her self from him she felt shame/deppresion/desperation. All are feeling which most rape victums feel. The feelings wernt downplayed or glossed over, which is refreshing. It was also realistic on how she wanted to disapear/run away.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Elle on December 29, 2010, 05:39:14 pm
Readalot, I really enjoyed that aspect of the book as well! I'm almost finished with this one will be back later with more!
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on December 30, 2010, 07:12:03 am
<<The scene was overly descriptive, (which is just sicking...do we really NEED the details?) >>

I didn't find it to be particularly descriptive, myself.  For the most part, I thought Patty shielded us from the details.  There were a
few times when she'd bring us back to the scene with a few choice graphic descriptors, but then she'd remove us from the action again.

For me, it was like I was "watching" the scene through an opaque veil that obscured the details. I could still hear some sounds and
see some shadows, so I knew what was happening, and it was horrific, but at the same time everything was muzzy.  And then there'd
be this startling moment when the veil disappeared and everything was crystal clear for a second before the veil dropped again. 
As a reader, I found that to be very effective because it protected and distanced me from the worst of the scene, but still managed
to convey the horror of what was happening to Mercy.

I remember thinking that after I read the scene, I was struck by how well it had been WRITTEN.

For various reasons, Iron Kissed is still my favorite of the 5 books so far.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Elle on December 30, 2010, 09:19:23 am
Finished Iron Kissed last night.

Well said, Nifty! Opaque veil really works well for how I read the scene as well. I think this is the first time I've sat down and read IK from cover to cover since it first came out.
The power of it was still as sharp as it was initially.

One aspect I really enjoyed was Samuel and Mercy both realizing that they weren't meantfor each other. The Adam/Mercy scene when he persuades her to drink the fairy brew again is just so heartwrenching.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on December 30, 2010, 09:25:40 am
I love all the scenes that people typically love, but also some of the apparently throw away bits, like the description of the gal opening the door for the meeting, with the voice that will sound about 12 her whole life.  That character sticks with you, even though she's not physically there afterward, so that even in "Bone Crossed", when the garage is painted but she doesn't physically appear, or speak, you attach it to her.
Title: Re: Iron Kissed Discussion
Post by: charmed on December 30, 2010, 12:24:47 pm
I remember thinking that after I read the scene, I was struck by how well it had been WRITTEN.

For various reasons, Iron Kissed is still my favorite of the 5 books so far.

Same here.