The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Characters Board => The Weres => Romantic and Non-Romantic Couples & Relationships => Topic started by: turtlezipp on August 11, 2009, 01:49:48 pm

Title: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: turtlezipp on August 11, 2009, 01:49:48 pm
**possible spoilers if you havent read the first 4 books**





sam vs. adam

actually i feel like im going against the grain here but if it was only down to the two werewolves, i'd prolly have picked sam for mercy.  adam has some really good points in his favor, but i think the fact that sam and mercy love eachother, but aren't IN LOVE with eachother, would have made for a better match.  mercy is very independant.  yes, sam is protective over her, but he's more laid back than adam.  (prolly due to the fact that he doesnt have as many ppl that he has to watch over like adam *shrug*) it appears that he allows for mercy to be more independant with less worry on her part.  in my opinion this would lead to less stress on her part.  true they arent actually IN love with eachother, but they do love eachother on a certain lvl.  theyd both get something out of this relationship.  sam would get the girl that he thinks can give him children and mercy would get freedom.  she wouldnt have to worry as much about his image in front of the rest of the pack.  she wouldnt have to worry about living in a house with mulitple unexpected ppl dropping by. (considdering she thought about all the ppl that show up randomly at adams herself when she was thinking about moving in.) she'd have a live in doctor.  true he was making a pass for her when she was a little young, but he wasnt asking her to marry him that young.  just kinda laying the ground work.  also when he was born it wasnt uncommon to marry women quite a bit younger than you, and it's not like he can really help that werewolves tend to live a little longer than normal.  

adam vs. sam

on the other hand.  :P  adam and mercy are IN LOVE with eachother.  it's more likely that they would (for lack of a better expression) give more when it came to helping the other person if there was some kind of trouble.  also with the pack bond they are able to draw upon a resource she wouldnt have with sam.  she doesnt have to worry with him he's using her for anything. (like sam wanting her for the ablility to have kids)  she'd have a nice house, money, and a built in family (and extended family).  plus she probably would not have gotten through the rape, or any other equally tramatic experience, as well without adam. (or anyone that she was in love with / loved as much as they love eachother)

the werewolves vs. the vamp

however...  :D stefan loves her as well.  [we dont exactly know how much so, but we do know that he cared about her enough to extremely upset at marsilia for putting mercy in harms way.  to me this is saying quite a bit considering how much he cares for marsilia.  we also know that when he took mercy with him to visit littleton he was so upset about her getting hurt that he punched her dashboard.  and when she told him to get chad away from blackwood and not her he would only agree to it if he could make sure he was going to get her forgiveness for having the two ppl killed after she had killed andre.  so my brain registers it like this...]  stefan cares about mercy. (if not loves)  He would do everything in his power to keep her from being hurt, including putting himself in harms way multiple times. (for example atempting to rescue her from Blackwood and not telling marsilia about her being a walker)   he's not using her for anything. (like kids)  he would give her all the independance she needs.  he would do everything in his power to make sure she was safe and happy.  he has a good sense of humor.  he makes an effort to help her fix cars.  he has an amazing sense of loyalty and honor.

Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: turtlezipp on August 11, 2009, 01:50:26 pm
discussion plz, im curious about other peoples opinions.

~zipp
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Avarel on August 11, 2009, 02:06:55 pm
Actually, I see Samual as Passive-Possesive.

He isn't as obvious as Adam, but because you can't put your finger on it he is the one that it is harder to stop.

With Adam Mercy can say "Your controlling me when you..." With Samuel it's more like he takes away the options he doesn't want you to choose.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: turtlezipp on August 11, 2009, 02:12:47 pm
actually thats a good thought.  i never looked at it quite like that before.  good point.  dunno but especially with that it seems to me that both the wolves want to control her at least some how.  stefan at least has never forbid her from doing anything or forced her to do anything.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ArtAngel on August 11, 2009, 10:59:08 pm
I could actually see Stefan being worse than the two wolves if he thought he had a chance with her. Mercy knows how to deal with wolves, she grew up with them, and while the Alpha-ness can get irritating, she understands it and knows how to work it to her advantage.

With vampires? Considering the whole vampire/walker enmity I can see her having to follow many moe rules. She doesn't have an instinctive understanding of how they operate and I can't see Stefan really telling her. Even though he has told her way more than Marsillia likes I seriously doubt she knows even a small percentage of what makes vampires tick. So with Stefan she would be in more danger and he woudl be more protective.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: turtlezipp on August 12, 2009, 05:37:07 am
possibly.  but theres a difference in being protective and possesive.  i still feel that she'd be more free to be "mercy-like".  but you bring a valuable point, she doesnt know as much about how vampires tick.  also theres things that she doenst know about werewolves.  like in bone crossed when she reallized that she didnt know much about the mating ceremony or getting admitted to the pack.  also this would cause more problems for her because im pretty sure this might take her out from having pack protection even if she was raised with the marrok and his pack. 

i keep going back and forth on it.  but i do see stefan telling her everything she'd need to know.  part of what he cant share with her is because vampires dont share secrets well with ppl that arent vamps.  i think it'd be different if she was his "mate" (?).  and as much as he cares about marsilia he does sorta stand up to her for mercy already, and theyre just friends.  he is also the only person that we know of that would have a chance of stopping marsilia if he had to.  (hopefully in that alternate reality he wouldnt have to though  :) )
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Fairyland92 on August 13, 2009, 10:54:20 am
Well, for the first time I read Moon Called, Blood bound, and Iron Kissed, I was a Mercy and Sam fan.
But Now that I'm re-reading the series for the...third time, I really do think Sam is too possessive and It wouldn't work out. Mercy doesn't like taking orders from people nor is she dependent on people. Shes that kind of girl who does what ever the hell she wants. Sam would try to make her stay home from the Werewolf business and she would disobey on purpose. Haha.  :P

So I really do think Adam would be best for her. Especially since he wouldn't hold back on asking for her help if he knows shes needed.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: turtlezipp on August 14, 2009, 03:26:09 pm
you know, saddly, i have to agree with you.  i reallize that for things to work correctly she's gonna have to end up with one of the werewolves but i really do think the mercy stefan couple would be "cute"  :-LOVE

barring that i liked sam, and wished those two wold have worked out.  but i have to accept it wouldnt  :-'

~zipp

P.S. stefan needs to get the hook up too!  :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: BlueMtn on August 14, 2009, 04:36:24 pm
I like Stephen, but only as  a good friend to Mercy.   He has his 'sheep' and his love and loyalty to Marlissa (?) first.  Though he respects Mercy, he really likes her blood even more.  Though I like vampire stories, not sure I like the concept truly in a reality kind of way of being someones snickers bar, and always worried in the back of mind that there could be an overindulgence one wouldn't recover from some day.  Like Sookie once said "McPeople",  hmmmm.   

Sam,  I like but he also makes me a little icky because of the whole I gotta have babies thing.   He is not cruel, but he hurt Mercy at a tender age, that is a hard thing to forget.   I still think he has some more redeeming time to go thru. 

Adam wants Mercy for herself, in spite of herself, so he gets my vote. :P
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Carlie on September 11, 2009, 04:53:19 pm
So, usually I'm the kind of person who gets annoy when people like the second guy better than the A guy, because lets face it: the A guy is always great, fantastic, romantic and whatever else you might add, and even when the second guy is also great, fantastic and romantic, well... he never rise to the A guy. But for some reason in this series I'm finding myself liking better, not only the B guy, but also the C guy. Adam was marvelous in Iron kissed but for him to be marvelous, he needed the help of Ben (who I love by the way, everytime he gets hurt I get really scare that patricia is going to kill him), so my question is: Am I crazy like those people who use to annoy me for not liking the A guy better than other characters? I so in love with Sam :-LOVE, I didn't approve of his reasons to choose Mercy :o but he's almost the perfect guy: Funny, clever, gentleman, protective, wants kids and a family, etc. he has to many traits to name, but he just melts me everytime I read about him :-[. Then we have the C guy: Stefan melts my heart :-LOVE, but he's just the kind of love that I would like to find, that man that is your friend first and is not looking to bed you the first time he meets you >:(, come on he's a vampire who has a van like the mistery machine and rides with a scooby doo stuff in his passenger sit 9), he would do anything for Mercy without asking for anything and return (those of you who are going to say "what about Blood bound?", well he didn't exactly have a choice, he needed her), he speaks sign languaje for crying out loud, like Mercy said: why would a vampire need to learn sign languaje? he wants her safe, he will stand against his seethe to keep her from harm, he doesn't share his feelings because he knows she loves somebody else :-', the only time he did so, was when he thought he was going to die for betraying his mistress in helping her, he didn't feed from her even when he was dying. Anyway you read the books, he's fantastic and I misssed him a lot in iron kissed. I know that neither Sam nor Stefan are going to get a chance in hell with Mercy :-' :( :-', but I prefer them to Adam, so all of you lovers of Adam, don't hate me, I was you before this series  ;) :P O)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Zealith on September 11, 2009, 05:23:38 pm
Hey, to each their own. My favorite is Adam, but that's just because I think he's what Mercy wants. Not so much what I'd choose for myself. Stefan and Samuel are both sweet characters, and I'd love them to get their HEA, but I wouldn't truely want to end up with either of them myself. :P To each their own.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on September 11, 2009, 05:27:28 pm
Samuel.  :-LOVE :-LOVE :-LOVE

Mrs. Briggs said she loves him, too.  :P
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on September 11, 2009, 10:06:53 pm
http://ihasahotdog.com/2008/05/17/funny-

Sam.

'nuff said.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: white_unicorn on September 12, 2009, 12:57:49 am
I adore Sam and Stefan.....  :-LOVE :-LOVE :-LOVE
Ben makes me want to kick him at times but then he does something like in IK and....  :-' it makes my heart hurt....

ps: Adam in IK was drowning in his own guilt for not protecting Mercy, so I can't hold that against him...
it's more like how he explained it in IK.... he was too troubled after his divorce and Mercy shied away... :-[

I def need to re-read BOne Cossed... I am just waiting for the paperback edition as I do not have the e-book in this laptop....
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ArtAngel on September 12, 2009, 03:31:26 am
Sam  :-LOVE

But I have to say that Adam is much better for Mercy.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on September 12, 2009, 04:28:49 am
I'm in Camp Adam.  (Ha!  Did I just sound like a Twilighter?)  I adore Adam because of the way he treats Mercy and trusts her.  He has so much respect for her brains, her competency, her independence.  Even as those things frustrate him because it would be EASIER for him if she just fell in line, I think he also really likes them.  (Like in Bone Crossed...that scene early in the book when Mercy realizes that she's been playing it wrong all these years, because Adam LIKES to have a strong woman stand up to him.)  And certainly those traits of Mercy's have come through and saved his bacon a time or two. 

For me, Patty hit the nail on the head in Iron Kissed when Mercy was explaining that Sam would have wrapped her in padding in order to protect her, and she would have let him because of how much she loved him.  Their relationship would have been unequal.  Adam, on the other hand, likes to give orders, but he also knows and values what Mercy brings to the table, so not only can they be equals, they can be partners.  The woman that I am, given my own personal life experiences, really appreciates that.

I still love Sam, of course.  Great guy!  I wanna cuddle him.  I can't wait to see what Patty has in store for him, and I hope there's some goodness and happiness in there in the end.   And I'm warming up to Stefan, although I NEVER considered him to be any kind of viable candidate for Mercy's heart.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: midnight on September 12, 2009, 07:27:24 am
Nifty you took the words out of my mouth with Adam. I'm totally an Adam fan. Nothing melts my heart more than a strong, tough, dominant man who can also be loving and caring. And as you said, the way he treats Mercy as a partner/equal and values her opinions are perfect to me. Also he got my total respect at the end of IK because when Ben talked to him he listened and took on board what was said. Showing that even though he is the alpha he still knows when to listen to good advice even from someone beneath him in the pack
For me Adam and Mercy are the perfect balance. Mercy can sometimes be chaotic and unpredictable where as Adam is disciplined and orderly. (I believe that sometimes opposites can attract).

That being said I do still love Sam and Stefan and like most people here, I want them to have their HEA.
Stefan is still a mystery to me but he must care for Mercy to have gone through what he did for her. I wish that we had more back story on him though. He's a fascinating character. It can't be easy for him to love and be loyal to his mistress and the seethe and yet still have feelings for Mercy. Even though both women hate each other.

And as for Sam, a sweet character and very lovable but not for Mercy. I think he needs someone who is tolerant and understanding of his extremely protective nature. Someone who would be lenient towards his protectiveness.   

 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Zealith on September 12, 2009, 01:20:46 pm
Or some one who wants a big strong man to protect her.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on September 12, 2009, 02:42:30 pm
Also he got my total respect at the end of IK because when Ben talked to him he listened and took on board what was said. Showing that even though he is the alpha he still knows when to listen to good advice even from someone beneath him in the pack

Not only that, but when it was all over and Ben had said his piece, Adam not only was appreciative, but he also showed that he cared about BEN.  Even though Mercy was probably foremost in his concern at that moment, you could tell that Adam had a genuine interest in Ben's wellbeing as well. 

I like all three guys, honestly.  I love learning about them and seeing their backstories unfold.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Carlie on September 12, 2009, 04:53:10 pm
That's what I love about the forum, different perspectives to one thing, Nifty and Midnight catch more than me about Adam, you are right about the equal terms between them and Adam apreciates Ben like me  ;). I guess that I just love so much Sam that I want him to be happy, the scene were Mercy says that Sam wants what Adam has, almost make me cry and Zeilith I do want a strong man to protect me  :P I just can't find him and Stefan is such a sweetheart that I want a happy ending for him too  9). But my heart is still on those two :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: mrsj on September 12, 2009, 08:48:03 pm
I don't know why.. but I really like Stefan.
His feelings for Mercy was something that I can't even bring myself to describe but I thought something is there for the two of them..
I wonder if his feelings for Mercy will be elaborated in Book 5?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: midnight on September 13, 2009, 01:33:12 am
Carlie thats what I love about this forum too. Its interesting to see different points of view.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on September 13, 2009, 07:54:05 am
I guess that I just love so much Sam that I want him to be happy, the scene were Mercy says that Sam wants what Adam has,

I thought this was insightful on Mercy's part.  Sam does love Mercy, just as she loves him.  There can be some lust tied up in those feelings of love, because that's just the way it was for the two of them for a long time.  But I don't believe Sam loves Mercy (or she him) the same way ADAM loves Mercy, and I think Mercy realized that.  I tend to think Sam looked at her and saw possibilities...not so much for THEM, but for HIM.  He does want what Adam has -- a family, a home, a place of his own, where he's charged with the protection of those who belong to him, who are part of him.  You're right...it was a sad scene...made me sad for Sam.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: adchrist on September 22, 2009, 03:35:40 pm
I really like Adam too, but I want to know more about Stefan. He is cloaked in mystery, while Adam and Samuel aren't any more. They probably wont do anything unexpected at this point in the series, but Stefan is still slightly unknown.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: thebeadedchihuahua on September 22, 2009, 08:06:50 pm
Adam is great, but I love Stefan. I could see Mercy with Stefan.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Zealith on September 22, 2009, 08:16:17 pm
I can't. Vampires creep her out. She likes stephan true, but that doesn't mean she knows just how little she knows about vampires.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on September 22, 2009, 08:34:32 pm
Yes; she is not forgiving him for the deaths, no matter it saved her.  And they just don't think enough alike for her to want him that way.  Friend, yes, lover/mate, no.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Carlie on September 22, 2009, 09:07:39 pm
Yes; she is not forgiving him for the deaths, no matter it saved her.  And they just don't think enough alike for her to want him that way.  Friend, yes, lover/mate, no.

Actually she promised to forgive him if he saved Chad instead of her. And that for me was one more reason to love Stefan I woul be selfish in his place and save the one I love, but instead he listened to her and even when it was difficult to leave her behind, he didn't want her to hate him forever 9) He's cute, we need more Stefan.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: CarolKat on October 12, 2009, 02:31:27 pm
I think Stefan loves Mercy but also realizes that she would never feel that way for him.  I think Mercy has now forgiven him for killing the two innocents as far as she can and I think she loves him like a brother kind of love.  I think that's why she hates Marsilia for what she did to him let alone what she did to her.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Fairyland92 on October 12, 2009, 03:37:52 pm
I would love to see Mercy with Samuel but the fact that his love isn't as genuine as Adams throws me off.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: CarolKat on October 12, 2009, 04:07:51 pm
Mercy and Sam have realized they are pack-mates not mates, just like a brother sister thing.  They won't happen Adam is her mate they balance and support each other.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: charmed on October 12, 2009, 04:10:09 pm
I would love to see Mercy with Samuel but the fact that his love isn't as genuine as Adams throws me off.


Wow, I can your yelling all the way over here. Feel passionately about this, do you? :P
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: dee on December 14, 2009, 03:11:47 pm
i will have to say sam.....and bran ofcourse.....they both have this sense of humour i love.....both hve this mystery bout them......well bran anyway....sam is almost the perfect guy.. :-LOVE.....while bran is this powerful msterious guy with an interesting past..(wait they both have that)......plus he is this practical leader with a soft side...... :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ladylynx on December 14, 2009, 07:44:27 pm
Adam and Mercy fit each other like gloves. Their part of each others personalities.

Unlike Sam and Mercy, Sam is more like the big brother or favorite cousin you like to spend time with and have around to back you up.

As for Bran, he is like everything rolled in one, Father,leader,mentor, and favorite Uncle.

I think Stefan has some one special among his blood donors that would agree to spend their life with him, but until he leaves Marsilia, he will always stay by her side. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Josi on December 22, 2009, 01:04:05 pm
I know this topis is a lil old but i'm new to this all and I couldnt resist.

Stefan vs. Wares
I think if stefan wasn't a vampir he and mercy would make a great pair.  He has a since of humor, trusts her, would get into trouble with her to do the right thing, and they both like to work on cars.  He wouldn't hold her back like Adam and Sam would.  He also likes her for her and not for what she can give him (babies). But I don't see Mercy living with Stefan and his "sheep". I also have a hard time seeing her being okay with him feeding on ppl.  Since he can't really un-do the vampire thing, friends it is.   :-whistle

Sam vs. Adam
Sam is sweet and likes to get into trouble with Mercy, which we get from the stories about her living in the Marrok Pack.  But, he just wants babies. :(

So out of the three I think Adam.  Adam loves her, she loves him, and if a relationship was easy it would be boring for everyone.   ;D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: cccgq on January 08, 2010, 11:00:23 pm
Here's my two cents.

I think Adam is the right man for Mercy. He challenges her, and we know Mercy loves a challenge, but he also trusts her judgement.  Of all the three suitors, he is the only one who has truly wooed her. Sam basically just moved himself in despite what Mercy actually wanted, and I'll deal with my thoughts on Stefan in abit.

Sam is her big brother by choice end of story. Yes, he was her first love, but that relationship was...unfair.  Sam is a few hundred years older than Mercy and Sam the man wanted her basically as a brood mare.  It is harsh and he would have cared for her, but in the end he would have turned the Mercy we love into a housewife. Luckily for both of them Sam's wolf didn't want Mercy. We have seen with Bran and Leah and Adam and his first wife what happens when an Alpha wolf has a mate that both the man and the wolf do agree on.

I think Stefan is a wonderfully crafted character. As a guy, however, I really don't like the him. By that I mean if I was Mercy's friend I would stake him the first chance I got. In BC Adam and Sam allude to Stefan not being entirely truthful to Mercy about the power the blood bond gives him over her. We also only have his word that Blackwood broke the blood bond. The fact that Mercy still had Marsillia letter was convenient.

Stefan may care for Mercy, but he loves and has dedicated himself to Marsillia. I just get the sense that the vampires are playing a deeper game, and it is not to the benefit of anyone who is not a vampire. Stefan may be the best of what a vamp can be, but let's be honest that doesn't make him any where near good or sweet. Marcillia proved just how Maciavellian her schemes can be in BC and having the mate of the Alpha of the local werewolf pack, who also happens to be the Marroks chosen daughter, bonded to a vampire who has chosen to stay with her is a VERY big bargaining chip.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 11, 2010, 07:50:21 am
I really like the development of the relationship between Mercy and Adam, I think that will be good for both of them for all the reasons that have been already mentioned here.
But I still like Sam, he is a great character and I wish him all the luck in this fictional world.
And Stephan is also very interesting, I would love to read a short story in his point-of-view some day, because I still cannot figure him out.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: faeofwind on February 03, 2010, 12:25:57 am
I'm also an Adam fan. I think he is best for Mercy, she to him amd that's how it should be.  :-LOVE Adam *squishes*

I have nothing against Sam. I like the character a lot and I feel the way it was worked out is perfect for him and Mercy.

Now Stefan. Love Stefan, very intriguing character. I love the interaction between him and Mercy. It has been mentioned multiple times that he loves Marsilia, but the books never define that love as romantic or otherwise, it is left to guessing. After series like Twilight (and even before) when vamps exploded into every genre, it's refreshing to see them in a different light. (I'm a big fan of how the seethe has been portrayed). I think Twilight readers (or readers of any similar series) will have trouble seeing Stefan as he is and will tend to glorify him according to those other books standards.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Avarel on February 03, 2010, 11:33:30 am
I think Twilight readers (or readers of any similar series) will have trouble seeing Stefan as he is and will tend to glorify him according to those other books standards.

I really agree with that statement, faeofwind. I like Stefan, but he still scares me, just a little.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: booklover on February 14, 2010, 08:58:50 pm
I am kinda torn because,  I want to see the series end cause I want to know who ercy ends up with permanantly.  Then again I love reading the books and I hate to see it end ever.  All three seem like good canidates,  but her commiting to Adam this early in the series makes me wonder if that is going to last.  I am was kinda hoping for Sam but after reading Bone Crossed I am liking Stefan,  but I like Adam as well so it is a hard choice,  I like them all.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Mike Briggs on February 14, 2010, 11:43:19 pm
I know people are worried about this, or I wouldn't say anything at all.   We've had several letters from people who don't want to read the next book, because they're just sure Patty will do something that ruins whatever "Happily Ever After" they favor.  What follows is a giant "Code Red" spoiler for the romance angle.  I'd only suggest reading if you're one of the people who REALLY worried about this issue.






Authors are usually just in the business of telling a grand whopper, but sometimes their personal beliefs also play a role.  Patty and I have long since decided that love is precious, and delicate, and far more rare than it should be.  Anyone with a lick of sense knows that when you find it, you hold on with both hands.  Mercy and Adam still have a few issues -- many of which get worked out it Silver Borne.  However, her choice is made, and she's not going to play games or second guess her decision.  The remainder of the series will feature Mercy and Adam as an increasingly tight-knit couple. Contrary to popular belief, it's entirely possible to write a fine book without having the heroine torn between conflicting suitors, or constantly picking silly fights.  Besides, in Mercy's world there's plenty of trouble to keep both she and Adam hopping!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: CheeseBK on February 15, 2010, 12:46:19 am
I wasn't really concerned about the issue, since I trust Patty .... I enjoyed every single book of hers thoroughly so far and I'm sure it will be that way with the books to come... :)
that being said.... I still read what you wrote in the spoiler tags, mike.... (because I'm damn nosy) and I say...

THANK YOU for the info :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 15, 2010, 06:39:40 am
I really agree with the content of the spoiler. Thank you for the comment! :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: CarolKat on February 15, 2010, 08:14:36 am
Like CheeseBK said I wasn't really worried cause I too trust Patty but I am nosy too so I read the spoiler. I so agree with everything said there. Thank you Mike for the info.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Midangel on February 15, 2010, 08:15:44 am
Mike, that was wonderfully put! :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: jackie on February 15, 2010, 10:17:18 am
Diana Gabaldone (Outlander series - possibly over 1 million words of story, most of it after the HEAs ) has said that the good part of the romance starts with what most romance writers call the end of the book.  I think she's right, and it appears the Briggs are on the same page. :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: dee on February 15, 2010, 11:52:42 am
the good part of the romance starts with what most romance writers call the end of the book.  I think she's right, and it appears the Briggs are on the same page. :D

i totally agree with that comment....most books end right when the the two people you wanted together finally do end up together and it leaves you wanting more which is annoying because you know that"s it..... >:(
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on February 15, 2010, 12:41:45 pm
Yep! I totally agree - I think its more interesting to see a couple together and working things out- and many popular series like the In Death books have a HEA and it still is fresh and exciting as the first book and thats over 30 books!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kate on February 15, 2010, 12:42:50 pm
Thanks, Mike. I agree 110% with the content in the spoiler. And I was pretty sure that's where things were going.  :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: charmed on February 16, 2010, 09:22:52 am
Diana Gabaldone (Outlander series - possibly over 1 million words of story, most of it after the HEAs ) has said that the good part of the romance starts with what most romance writers call the end of the book.  I think she's right, and it appears the Briggs are on the same page. :D

I agree, and I am looking forward to seeing Mercy and Adam's HEA.

Thanks, Mike. I agree 110% with the content in the spoiler. And I was pretty sure that's where things were going.  :-LOVE

It seems to me that in one of our dearly deaprted author chats, Patty had said that Mercy woudl make a choice and stick with it, that she wouldn't bounce around or change her mind.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ElefiNecol on February 16, 2010, 04:35:33 pm
It seems to me that in one of our dearly deaprted author chats, Patty had said that Mercy woudl make a choice and stick with it, that she wouldn't bounce around or change her mind.

I remember it being said somewhere as well.  I've added this thread to the FAQ so that Mike's recent answer is there.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Letitia on March 02, 2010, 08:42:42 am
I agree with and like what Mike said...

I think now that Mercy's made the choice, it will be nice to see her stick to it and watch her and Adam's relationship evolve. And I do believe that between Adam and Samuel, Adam is the man for Mercy. It was a tough choice but I agreed with all of Mercy's epiphanies in IK about the kind of men the two would be for her.

As for Stefan, for me personally, he breaks my heart even more than Samuel... And with each rereading, the feeling only grows. There is something to be said for unrequited feelings. I hope we find out more about what he feels for Mercy, how deep it runs. I think Mercy and Stefan would be star-crossed lovers. No matter what they felt, the relationship would be doomed.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: jackie on March 02, 2010, 11:09:02 am
What I find sad about Stefan is that he has loved Marsilia for centuries and she new it and used it.  And now that he is finally thinking in terms of loving someone else, it is someone who can only love him as a friend.

I don't think Stefan was ever a serious contender as a life partner for Mercy. 

I also notice that Patty hasn't defined yet what a loving couple would look like in vampires.  There are ties between seethe mates and between masters and their followers, but life partners as we look for in romances, no.  Remember that all the vampires see Stefan's relationships and feelings for humans as abberrant.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on March 02, 2010, 02:40:22 pm
You know how I see Stefan with Mercy and definitely Marsillia - its old fashioned courtly love. He did come from that era and I think he's more comfortable showing and expressing his love that way.
He definitely has unrequited love for Mercy but I think in a funny way is comfortable about it - if that makes sense?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Letitia on March 03, 2010, 08:54:41 am
You know how I see Stefan with Mercy and definitely Marsillia - its old fashioned courtly love. He did come from that era and I think he's more comfortable showing and expressing his love that way.
He definitely has unrequited love for Mercy but I think in a funny way is comfortable about it - if that makes sense?

Aw, it is pretty courtly... And I hope he is comfortable with it, but it also comes across as he doesn't believe he is worthy of being loved back. Especially by Mercy.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on March 03, 2010, 11:13:08 am
I think that is an element of that- makes me think he regrets becoming a vampire in a way but I think he knows deep down he doesn't stand a chance with getting Mercy's affections in this way too. But I think he has a similar relationship with Marsillia too although I suspect and sense it was more sexual in the past.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pfefferminztee on March 03, 2010, 11:29:19 am
Perhaps Mercy reminds him about a younger and not that corrupted version of Marsilia? Or the woman he would've wished her to become? I cannot believe that Stefan would've fallen in love with such a person. Marsilia must've been different in her younger days.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Letitia on March 04, 2010, 11:05:44 am
I agree, I think Stefan knows he doesn't have a chance with Mercy. I think he wouldn't allow it even if he thought he did.

And it would be interesting to learn more about Marsillia, past and present.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pendle on March 04, 2010, 12:01:48 pm
Yes, Stefan's more likely to love Mercy from afar. But that being said, why did he kiss her in BB? Especially if her knows he doesn't have a chance.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on March 04, 2010, 12:04:50 pm
Please; that happens all the time, both in fiction and fact; a taste of the forbidden that the kisser can't resist.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Sissy on April 24, 2010, 07:20:48 pm
When I read a book, whether actual paper in hand book, or e-book, I always get a picture in my head, as well as the voices that go with it, and can 'hear' the characters. Yes, more than once I've looked over my shoulder for the white jacket men.  LOL

So, here are my thoughts about not only Adam, Stefan and Sam, but also about being a dominant and being an Alpha.

Mercy is with exactly who she should be with, Adam.  My reasoning is simple, Mercy needs a strong male for her (not just physically strong), whether she acknowledges it or not. With that strength and in that strength, Mercy will continue to grow and flourish, just as we have been watching her do.

Although I love him, Stefan, wouldn't be able to fully give Mercy what she needs. Even so, Mercy loves Stefan but she is not IN love with him. I do however think that to some degree Stefan is in love with Mercy, or at least as much as he is able to be. I have no doubt that he would give his life to protect her, as the saying goes.  I do hope that their friendship continues and that he is able to find someone (not Marsillia) to love him back in the way that he needs and deserves.

Sam, okay, remember, these are my thoughts.  LOL   Honestly, he comes off as a whiny, petulant child to me. I don't know why, but that is the picture that I have in my head every time that I see him and hear him. I swear I can see him sticking his lower lip out and pouting when he doesn't get his way.  Even though he is older than dirt, I still want to just shake him and say 'grow up'. 

And that leads me to my supposition on being dominant versus being Alpha.

All Alpha's are dominant, by nature. But not all dominant's are Alpha.

Which is as it should be. An Alpha, to me, not only has physical strength but internal (emotional and mental) strength to go with it. He has to, just the way it is. He does what needs to be done and isn't petty or vindictive, or petulant.  (Won't get into the Leo discussion here.)

I could go on, but think that is enough for now.

Again, just my thoughts...  :D



Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on April 24, 2010, 08:55:14 pm
Sam, okay, remember, these are my thoughts.  LOL   Honestly, he comes off as a whiny, petulant child to me. I don't know why, but that is the picture that I have in my head every time that I see him and hear him. I swear I can see him sticking his lower lip out and pouting when he doesn't get his way.  Even though he is older than dirt, I still want to just shake him and say 'grow up'. 

 :o SACRILEGE!  BLASPHEMY!  :o
Who could not love Sam? 
OK so maybe he gets a little childish and petulant in SB... I don't support suicide  in any case...
and he isn't perfect (I hate that he took advantage of Mercy's youthful infatuation to try to get her to have his children... but then, he would have taken care of her and I can kind of understand why he is so desperate to have a family - living children)
But, he has many good points. 

I know, I know, you're entitled to your opinion. 

And I do think that Adam is the best choice for Mercy.  Someone above pointed out that what Patty says in the book about Sam is that he would "wrap [Mercy] in cotton" to protect her, while Jesse points out that Adam told her sometimes the best way to protect someone is to basically teach them to stand on their own two feet. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Sissy on April 25, 2010, 05:54:38 am
 LOL Yes, I know, it was blasphemy around here, but I cannot help the way I feel.  And no, that other thought is not an option.

Absolutely he has good points, that's not enough though, to my thinking.  ;)

I dunno, in my head, I see Adam as a full adult male, no question. Not only in physical appearance, but in his actions, etc. But for whatever reason, I somehow see Sam as young adult male. And his actions, to me, indicate no matter how old he actually is, he has a lot of growing up to do.

I know that may not make sense to others, but that is the way I see it. Just is.  8)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ArtAngel on April 25, 2010, 05:08:12 pm
I dunno, in my head, I see Adam as a full adult male, no question. Not only in physical appearance, but in his actions, etc. But for whatever reason, I somehow see Sam as young adult male. And his actions, to me, indicate no matter how old he actually is, he has a lot of growing up to do.

Hmm, I sort of agree with you. But, instead of a young adult male I see Sam more as an older man who has seen to much and become disillusioned with the world and who he has become, so he is now going thorugh all the "teen angst" of figuring out who he is and what he wants from life. A second teenage stage, so to speak.

Which really makes near immortality a scary option! One teenage stage is bad enough but constantly reinventing yourself every few hundred years or so just wounds exhausting!  :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Sissy on April 25, 2010, 05:12:36 pm
 LOL  Okay, I'll go with ya on that analogy ArtAngel.  And yes, one teen angst per lifetime is plenty!!!  :X
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: dee on May 23, 2010, 02:24:14 pm
Hmm, I sort of agree with you. But, instead of a young adult male I see Sam more as an older man who has seen to much and become disillusioned with the world and who he has become, so he is now going thorugh all the "teen angst" of figuring out who he is and what he wants from life. A second teenage stage, so to speak.

Which really makes near immortality a scary option! One teenage stage is bad enough but constantly reinventing yourself every few hundred years or so just wounds exhausting!  :D


that's a really good point, i mean thinking of all the years he spent re-inventing himself and taking care of people and the people he lost, it does take a toll, and i think no matter how strong someone is after centuries you get fed up of things sort of recurring. i think the whole wanting mate with mercy when she was like 14? was weird but then i am looking at it through a modern view. he came from a time where it was normal, now it's pedophile territory, so i guess i can turn the other cheek on that one
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on August 18, 2010, 03:51:54 pm
It is kind of creepy though :X
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on August 18, 2010, 03:56:37 pm
*strides in*

 :-* :-LOVEAdam!! :-LOVE :-*


*strides out*

Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 12:04:39 pm
Okaaay? ???
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: charmed on August 20, 2010, 03:33:38 pm
That was Nifty's unique way of saying that she is 10,000% in favor of Adam, though I think she meant for herself and not for Mercy :P :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 04:04:50 pm
Thanks for the explanation. :D Adam is pretty awsome :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on August 20, 2010, 04:19:54 pm
That was Nifty's unique way of saying that she is 10,000% in favor of Adam, though I think she meant for herself and not for Mercy :P :D

*muses thoughtfully*  10,000% is not enough, I don't think. 

Mine...all mine....   >D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: charmed on August 20, 2010, 04:22:30 pm
Mercy might disagree with you  :-whistle

I think we need a thread sharing the Adam love, we already have one for Warren and Kyle.  :-LOVE :-LOVE :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 04:33:31 pm
If I knew how to make one, I would. I  :-LOVE Adam and have been cheering for him from the beginning O)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Jabulani on November 06, 2010, 09:59:23 am
**possible spoilers if you havent read the first 4 books**





sam vs. adam

actually i feel like im going against the grain here but if it was only down to the two werewolves, i'd prolly have picked sam for mercy.  adam has some really good points in his favor, but i think the fact that sam and mercy love eachother, but aren't IN LOVE with eachother, would have made for a better match.  mercy is very independant.  yes, sam is protective over her, but he's more laid back than adam.  (prolly due to the fact that he doesnt have as many ppl that he has to watch over like adam *shrug*) it appears that he allows for mercy to be more independant with less worry on her part.  in my opinion this would lead to less stress on her part.  true they arent actually IN love with eachother, but they do love eachother on a certain lvl. 

Hah, I don't know your gender, but my girlfriends (purely platonic, I'm a men's man) all swear to heaven that they need to be IN LOVE with someone in addition to LOVING him (or her). And they're all rather mature women, mostly in their thirties.

Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on November 06, 2010, 10:13:47 am
Yep.  Pretty much.  LOL
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Chalger on November 06, 2010, 02:23:52 pm
I was okay with Mercy riding solo.

No Adam, no Sam, no Stefan.

Girl power. ;)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on November 06, 2010, 02:26:44 pm
Girl power doesn't keep the population up; and some things, face it, take 4 hands, not 2.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: dee on November 06, 2010, 02:33:16 pm
Girl power doesn't keep the population up; and some things, face it, take 4 hands, not 2.

LOL true true...and what's a story without some romance :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Chalger on November 06, 2010, 02:37:20 pm
Nah, I'm all for the single lady.

I've never viewed Mercy as particularly maternal, it might just be because I'm not, but then I prefer reading action to romance.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on November 06, 2010, 02:41:39 pm
And that's why there's no plan for kids for a few years at least.  Or so I understand it.  The romance is a sideline to the action, and kids don't offer much action option for mom.

which is off topic. 

Adam won.  The end. ;)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Chalger on November 06, 2010, 02:43:45 pm
I don't know if Stefan thinks its the end? But then I don't know how much Stefan is in love with her?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on November 06, 2010, 03:05:45 pm
Don't suppose any of us do.  But given that he's dead...
Don't see much future in that.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ArtAngel on November 06, 2010, 03:11:21 pm
Stefan respects her but I'm not convinced he's in love with her. I think he's more in love with her humanity then with her. He's going through a crisis right now.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on November 06, 2010, 03:28:30 pm
Adam won.  The end. ;)

That's because Adam's the BEST!!  And Mercy -- like myself -- has excellent taste.   :P LOL
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Chalger on November 07, 2010, 08:54:57 am
I love this.

Bigger more readable version here: http://blackpearl9925.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d28q3o7 (http://blackpearl9925.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d28q3o7)

(http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee471/Chalger/Mercy%20Thompson/Mercy__s_men_by_blackpearl9925.jpg)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ArtAngel on November 07, 2010, 10:29:12 am
Lol, well, that is similar to the last scene in Moon Called.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: midnight on November 07, 2010, 11:03:59 am
Adam won.  The end. ;)

That's because Adam's the BEST!!  And Mercy -- like myself -- has excellent taste.   :P LOL

 LOL LOL you and me think alike Nifty. I'm all for Adam  :-LOVE :-LOVE.  Adam is definitely my dream guy. I'm glad Mercy got with Adam. (seen as I can't be with him :D)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pendle on November 09, 2010, 11:05:43 am
I don't know if Stefan thinks its the end? But then I don't know how much Stefan is in love with her?
Stefan respects her but I'm not convinced he's in love with her. I think he's more in love with her humanity then with her. He's going through a crisis right now.

I agree with Stefan not being in love with Mercy. I like the idea of him loving her humanity. I just figured he was projecting. There must have been more to his and Marsilia's relationship at one point, but her ideals aren't his, and maybe Mercy just fits better with his mentality.

Adam won.  The end. ;)

I :-LOVE Adam. He was always best for Mercy, right from the start, I think Stefan's and Samuel's intentions towards her were more selfish. Basically they needed her to magically fix some part of themselves whereas Adam never did. Whatever comes next is a bonus.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on November 09, 2010, 12:54:28 pm
I don't know if Stefan thinks its the end? But then I don't know how much Stefan is in love with her?
Stefan respects her but I'm not convinced he's in love with her. I think he's more in love with her humanity then with her. He's going through a crisis right now.


I :-LOVE Adam. He was always best for Mercy, right from the start, I think Stefan's and Samuel's intentions towards her were more selfish. Basically they needed her to magically fix some part of themselves whereas never Adam did. Whatever comes next is a bonus.

I think this SUMS it up for me about Adam being the choice for Mercy. Also another thing is that unlike Samuel and Stefan who already viewed Mercy as having something they need - Adam was caught by surprise just as Mercy was.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on November 09, 2010, 05:42:16 pm
That and in IK Mercy said that she could live if Sam left, but she doesn't feel that way about Adam
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pendle on November 10, 2010, 09:50:58 am
So sweet! Must be :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Chelle on February 01, 2011, 12:43:11 pm
To be honest I love them all but interest wise I'd have to pick Sam/Stefan for Mercy! Adam comes across a little boring to me.  :(
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: dee on February 02, 2011, 02:24:42 pm
To be honest I love them all but interest wise I'd have to pick Sam/Stefan for Mercy! Adam comes across a little boring to me.  :(

me too..well not for mercy but my opinion. maybe because there is so much about them we don't know and they come of as mysterious ... but to me there isn't much about adam left, i feel his character has been exhausted somewhat
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on February 02, 2011, 02:31:09 pm
Oh, man, I sure don't feel that way!  Face it, we still find Mercy fascinating, and Adam is twice her age, so he's got not merely double the years, but (let's face it, the first . . . 10?  15? years of most lives are not really fraught with adventure) about three times the adult years to have learned and had adventures.  We know very little about his military career, nor whether he was married before the unlamented Christy, nor about his years with her, except that there was one live child (Jesse) and several miscarriages.  Boring?  Hah!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Nifty on February 02, 2011, 04:38:38 pm
There are several things about Sam I'd like to know:
1)  When was he really born?
2)  What were the circumstances of his Change?
3)  When/where/how did Ari factor into his life?
4)  What was his life like as a werewolf in Europe, before Bran took his wolves to the New World?  What was his position, his circumstances?
5)  What experiences does he have with some of the other supernatural species?
6)  How does it work that he and Mercy are Pack, even though there was no ceremony?  How did that happen?  Why was he able to make that happen?  Does it have anything to do with him/his age/any special abilities he might have?  Or is it just something basic like time together and proximity and just a sort of deliberate "make-it-so" acceptance on the part of brother wolf?
7)  If Mercy is part of Adam's pack, and Sam is Pack with Mercy, then is Sam connected in some ways -- via pack bonds or whatever -- with Adam and Adam's Pack?
8)  If it has to do with proximity and some sort of metaphysical deliberateness on the part of the wolf, then do others in Bran's pack -- namely Bran, of course -- have the same connection to Mercy?  He has a connection to her now, of course, because she's Adam's, and Adam is Bran's, but before that pack bond was made, did Bran already have a connection with Mercy. (Which is more of a Bran question than a Sam one.  Sorry!)

There are several things about Adam I’d like to know:
1)  His origins.  Where was he born, raised, yada-yada?  What was his family situation?
2)  What was it like for him after he was Changed?  He was obviously wounded badly…but he also healed once he became a werewolf.  And yet he was still a soldier.  How much longer did he stay in the Army?  Was that hard for him?  When Mercy killed the first werewolf in Book One, Mac – who was a new wolf and without the benefit of an alpha – was attracted to the dead and bloody body and wanted to eat it.  And Adam was changed in the middle of a war – lots of bloody and dead bodies!  So what was it like for him?  Plus, assuming he COULD control his instinctive desire to eat the bloody and dead bodies – and create a few of his own! – how did he deal with the monthly changes?  How did he work that out without going AWOL?  And without others finding out?
3)  After the war was over and he made his way back to the US, was he a lone wolf for a while, until his natural dominance and "alpha-ness" started attracting other wolves to him?  Is that how he became Alpha in a professional, official sense?  Did he have to fight dominance battles – which are battles to the death often – in order to establish his position?  (And if he did, how did he clean up the messes he left behind?)  Or did Bran get some psychic vibe when Adam was changed that alerted him to the new addition, and also somehow alerted him to Adam’s dominance level, and so Bran deliberately sought him out and groomed him as an alpha?   Was Adam put in a Pack, and then he worked his way up?  (That doesn’t necessarily seem smart, because if dominance battles ARE to the death, then why would you put someone you immediately know is an Alpha into a position as a 4th or 3rd or 2nd?  Seems like if they’ve got that Alpha vibe – which seems to be some kind of mojo that the wolves immediately sense and identify – you’d pull them aside and immediately put them in the apex position, and then build the pack around them.  So if that’s how it happened for Adam, how long did it take for all that to happen?)
4)  Were there other serious relationships before Christy?
5)  When did he meet Christy?  Adam is about 65, and he met Christy at least 16 years ago, given the fact that Jesse is 15.  So he was 49 (and still looking like he was 25!).  That means he’d been a wolf for at most about 25 years before he met Christy.  Who came before?  And how old was she?  What were the circumstances of their meeting?  Did she know he was a werewolf?  How did that happen?  Christy seems like a spiteful type, so how was it that she kept the secret when she’s mated to a werewolf?  And not just any werewolf, but an Alpha, ‘cause I would imagine that if Adam had been a sub or some low-ranking wolf, it MIGHT have been easy to keep it a secret.  Not so much, though, when you’re the leader and your pack are constantly at your house, and calling you at all hours, and basically living in your pocket.
6)  What was their marriage like?  We really don’t know much about the emotional side of their relationship.  WHY did he marry her?  She was never his mate, so why did he marry her?  (Knowing Adam and his values, etc., I’m guessing that Christy got pregnant and that’s when and why he married her.  But knowing how few werewolf-sired pregnancies make it to full-term, did he wait until Jesse was born?  Did they have miscarriages BEFORE they got lucky with Jesse?)
7)  In Moon Called, Mercy tells us that when she was little, her foster father told her that the 4th Alpha in rank in the Americas was Adam of the Los Alamos pack.  (Doing the math, Adam achieved this rank within 14 years of being Changed.)  In Moon Called, of course, Adam is the Alpha of the Columbia Basin pack.  Why did Adam move?  Did Bran ask him to move?  What happens to the pack when the alpha decides to move hundreds of miles away.  Does his old number 2 ascend to the rank of new alpha of the old pack, and the wolves can decide if they want to move with the alpha or stay with their old pack in the old location?  So when Adam came to the Tri-Cities, did he have anyone with him?  Or was it rather that there was a badly disorganized pack and assorted lone-wolves in the Tri-Cities, and Bran just plunked him there to be in charge?
8)  How did Adam rationalize his house to his contractor?  (“I need a 2-story house with a huge basement, and in the basement I need several dorm-like rooms and a cell with bars.”)
9)  When did Adam really begin to start noticing Mercy and noticing that he was attracted to her and had feelings for her? 
10)  Where is Christy now?

Sam is very interesting, no question, but I think I'm more invested emotionally in Adam.    Plus, of course, I *heart* him.  :-LOVE
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Elle on February 02, 2011, 05:40:15 pm
I enjoy Samuel's character but I love Adam. All of the characters have layers but there's so much to Adam that I want to know I can't wait to find out history. Nifty! Love your post. You have some great questions there. I was really glad that Mercy chose Adam, they just strikes sparks off each other. Love it.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on February 02, 2011, 05:44:43 pm
Yeah, maybe some of that Adam specific stuff can be copied into an Adam specific thread for us to guess at in addition to here?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on February 02, 2011, 06:04:47 pm
I agree with those questions Nifty! I hope we learn more about Sam and Adam's past especially the latter - I don't think we have learned that much. I also hope we get some info about Stefan and his past - especially when he was in Italy and how he was turned.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Elle on February 03, 2011, 12:49:54 am
I'm on board with any kind of Adam thread.  ;D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on February 03, 2011, 05:10:14 pm
Nifty, those are great questions.  I love that post, you got me really thinking.  :)

I enjoy Samuel's character but I love Adam.

I laugh.  For me, it's exactly the opposite.  I completely  :-LOVE Sam, although I like Adam as a character very much.  ;D

I also hope we get some info about Stefan and his past - especially when he was in Italy and how he was turned.

I second that!  bOuNcY
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Rob on February 03, 2011, 05:24:24 pm
funny...I actually dislike Sam (maybe even hate him).....like Stefan, but don't think he's right for Mercy....definitely like Adam for Mercy....
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on February 03, 2011, 05:35:49 pm
They're all pretty neat, in their own ways.  But as you talk about it, I realize that I have reservations about both the older ones that I don't have about Adam.  The depths on them are just too deep and murky.  Potentially deadly in many unpleasant ways, however pleasant the surfaces.  Adam is (still; for now...) much more straightforward.

Mind you, if any one of them walked up to me with a marriage license application and a ring, I'd run like hell!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on February 03, 2011, 05:40:38 pm
Rob actively DISLIKES Sam?  Sacrilege!  *dies of shock*
Just because he's not right for Mercy doesn't mean we should have Sam love.  Just like we have Ben love. 

(OK Rob, you're entitled to your opinion, I guess...)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on February 03, 2011, 05:50:32 pm
They're all pretty neat, in their own ways.  But as you talk about it, I realize that I have reservations about both the older ones that I don't have about Adam.  The depths on them are just too deep and murky.  Potentially deadly in many unpleasant ways, however pleasant the surfaces.  Adam is (still; for now...) much more straightforward.

Mind you, if any one of them walked up to me with a marriage license application and a ring, I'd run like hell!

;D - I wouldn't with the marriage and ring thing - not too sure about Stefan :D But ahem I am definitely will be up for Adam or Sam LOL
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on February 03, 2011, 06:30:07 pm
I'm curious, Rob; why do you actively dislike Sam?  (And btw, that explains many of your dreamcast selections for Sam...  ;D )

I get liking Adam better, or not liking Sam for Mercy, etc.  But I'm very curious to know why you're set against him. 

* settles in to wait patiently *  :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Rob on February 03, 2011, 07:00:37 pm
He just mostly comes across, to me, as selfish and as moody as a teenage girl.  Don't get me wrong, at his core I think he's a good guy.....but he let his issues get the better of him (long before the series began) and he hasn't REALLY been considerate of others throughout the books.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on February 03, 2011, 07:08:18 pm
Fair enough.  :) 

I don't find him quite that bad, but it's true that for several of the books, he's been depicted as dealing with his own overwhelming issues.  Which tends to make a person fairly self-absorbed.  So, I guess I can see the point.

Of course, I still  :-LOVE him.  LOL
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on February 03, 2011, 08:51:25 pm
You have a point, Rob... but as someone who is sometimes overwhelmed by a mere 24 years worth of life... I guess I can forgive Sam for being the way he is after a few centuries.  Especially a few centuries as a werewolf and a doctor.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on February 03, 2011, 09:02:14 pm
I know old werewolves aren't fond of change, but that doesn't mean they CAN'T.  He could have sucked it up, more than once, and done something else.
Well, I suspect he had to for the first century or so after he & Bran got changed, didn't he?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on February 04, 2011, 03:23:59 am
My sense is that he sucked it up for the first millenium or so.  The problem is that by the time we were introduced to him, that millenium or so was over.  ;D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on February 04, 2011, 09:17:48 am
What Ellyll said. 
Mercy points out that wolves might not die of old age, but the centuries eventually start to catch up to them and make them crazy.  And she indicates that while Samuel might have been not as right as he was in previous centuries, when she was living in the Marrok's pack, it's only since she left, and he went to Texas, that he seems to be really screwed up. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Rob on February 04, 2011, 09:32:41 am
just because there is reason for his issues doesn't mean I have to like him.....besides, it's not the issues themselves that lead me to dislike him....it's how he handles them....
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Elle on February 04, 2011, 10:39:25 am
No, you don't have to like him Rob. We're not trying to convince you.  LOL
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on February 04, 2011, 01:41:38 pm
I'm not trying to convince you, Rob, and I think your viewpoint is entirely valid.  Since I respect your opinion, I was curious about your thinking in this, and I can see your point, even if I have a different feeling about it.  :-* :D

I like to see what other people think, especially if their thinking is different from mine.  It gives me new ways to look at things.  :)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: midnight on February 04, 2011, 02:07:37 pm
 :) here's my two cents. For me, Adam captured my heart from the very first page he was on in Moon called. I completely adore him.  :-LOVE :-LOVE

Whilst Sam  :-\ I don't know. I have had to work at liking him. Don't get me wrong, he is a good guy with a good heart but it took me until at least Iron kissed, before I could warm to him.

But any way each to their own. Some people favour Sam, some favour Adam, some favour Stefan.  It's all good  :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Has on February 04, 2011, 02:19:10 pm
I agree Midnight! :D

They are like the Triumvirate of the testosterone yumminess :D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Ellyll on February 04, 2011, 02:21:15 pm
But any way each to their own. Some people favour Sam, some favour Adam, some favour Stefan.  It's all good  :D

I couldn't have said it better, midnight.  :)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2011, 02:24:03 pm
<snip>
They are like the Triumvirate of the testosterone yumminess :D

(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/014/f/c/_foocl__falloutofchairlaughing_by_darkmoon3636.gif)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: CarolKat on February 04, 2011, 07:04:56 pm
No question, SAM + ADAM +  STEFAN  = YUMMY  :-whistle >D O)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on February 04, 2011, 07:51:03 pm
luv adam! :-LOVE :-LOVE bOuNcY O)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pfefferminztee on March 03, 2011, 12:02:42 pm
He just mostly comes across, to me, as selfish and as moody as a teenage girl.  Don't get me wrong, at his core I think he's a good guy.....but he let his issues get the better of him (long before the series began) and he hasn't REALLY been considerate of others throughout the books.

You know, my fiancé says the same. He dislikes Sam, because he finds him to be too emotional and self-absorbed.
I can see, why he thinks that. It is mostly true, but I think Sam still has a very good side and moreover, a lot of good reasons to be like that, so I still love him. But yeah, I hope with his changed situation he'll be a little more upbeat and considerate in the next books.

The Stefan in RM surprised me a little, I must admit. I would've never thought him to get so depressed that he even neglects his sheep. But I loved to see that he established friendly bonds not just with Mercy, but also with members of the pack, like Warren or - most astonishing to me - Adam!
I like it that Patty found a way to let Mercy keep her relationships to all of the men in her life, regardless of former rivalry. It is kind of refreshing to not have big relationship drama all the time, like in other series.  :)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kate on March 03, 2011, 01:10:50 pm
Pfeffermintzee, I think I know what caused you to make comment about how nice it is to see an ADULT relationship.  ;D :-whistle

I was actually somewhat intrigued by BEN and Stefan being so friendly. Ben seems so standoffish to others, but he and Warren were the primary Stefan-meals. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on March 03, 2011, 01:17:34 pm
Remember that Ben and Warren worked with Stefan in Blood Bound.  So it makes sense that they would be friends: A lot happened between them.  And Ben, despite his charming personality, seems willing to protect those he likes... like Adam, Mercy, and, apparently, Stefan... even at risk to himself.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kate on March 03, 2011, 01:19:33 pm
Excellent points, Kyria. I had actually forgotten that.  :-[
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pfefferminztee on March 03, 2011, 03:45:29 pm
I am sure you do, Kate.  LOL

@Kyria
I agree.^^ I also remember seeing hints of this 'friendship' throughout the whole series since BB. 
So, I bet it'll get more interesting with the vampires, Stefan and Mercy, now, that Coyote appeared. :D I am wondering where Stefan's loyalties would be, if the whole Mercy/Mistress situation would escalate...
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ppbwashu on March 03, 2011, 03:51:56 pm
Pfefferminztee, I'm hoping Stefan's loyalties will be tested in the not so distant future!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on March 03, 2011, 04:15:12 pm
Coyote didn't seem like HE intended to push things in the immediate future.  That isn't to say that he won't eventually do so, nor that Marsilla wouldn't initiate something...
Will be interesting to see Stefan's response.  I can't see him rewarding Mercy's loyalty to him with a betrayal, but we know already that he won't actively work against his Mistress.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: DandelionWine on March 03, 2011, 05:54:40 pm
I see Adam's acceptance of Stefan as a sort of accepting the 'monster' that he is because he lives within at least "some" boundaries.  Also, if Adam condones or calls for destroying another monster race, where does that leave the weres which he also considers a monster race (as do the humans most likely)?  Yes, I know that the Vamps aren't 'out' yet, but really, can it be less than a matter of time?

So, since Stefan is pretty much the lesser of many evils, it's best to encourage his continued existence if only so there is some balance as well as some chance at least of having some sort of, if not an outright ally, at least an inside source of a little info.  Plus, he's a decent sort of person who enjoys movies that are so bad they're good.

Also, I really think that Marsillia has finally pushed his loyalties to the breaking point, or very soon will.  A person's word, perhaps especially an honorable person which Stefan at least once was by his own description, can only endure so much abuse.   Minor RM spoiler>Especially with that little additional vignette we saw in River Marked. 

bit bigger RM spoiler>Also, in response to Pfefferminztee's remark, elderly human people get depressed (which can sometimes lead to violent behavour) when their friends, relatives and acquaintances die while they live on, how much worse would it be when you lose people you care about, and do so because one of the few long term 'friends' betrays you?  It's hard enough after a typical human span of 80 or 90 years, I can't imagine after centuries.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on March 03, 2011, 06:05:52 pm
I don't know.  I don't think Stefan will ever actively work against Marsillia, because it's HIS honor that's on the line if he betrays her, regardless of HER choice to betray him.  That is not to say that he would necessarily be active on her side of a conflict, but I don't see him working against her. 

But I could be wrong. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: little gray wolf on March 03, 2011, 07:14:39 pm
He refused to work against her erlier BC
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: DandelionWine on March 03, 2011, 07:42:54 pm
I'm aware.  I still think something will happen that will force his hand and he'll soon be the Master of the Seethe.  It will cut down on his abilities to deal personally with the Pack... or it would if he runs it like a normal seethe.  The times they are a changing though aren't they?  Perhaps most of the rest of the Seethe will get wiped out somehow?  He'll be left in charge by default?  Then he'll be able to enforce better habits on whoever is left? 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pendle on September 24, 2011, 04:36:17 am
I can't see Stefan wanting that much responsibility. Weren't he and Marsilia lovers at one point? She might not love him but he still loves her to some degree, it'd have to be a major incident for Stefan to act against her. And if his torture and the death of his sheep didn't work, what's going to?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Janilee on September 24, 2011, 04:37:51 am
She could get invited back to Milan and Stefan could be left with who stays behind.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on September 24, 2011, 08:50:43 am
Why would that happen, though?
And - a fair number of the senior members of the seethe aren't Marsilia's choices/making so would they stay?  Would different, possibly more powerful ones be assigned "gifted" to him?  Ones whose powers (like his transporter effect) he doesn't know?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on September 24, 2011, 09:55:41 am
Even given the way Marsilia has treated Stefan, I don't see him staying behind if she were to go back to Milan.  He sees himself as responsible to her: her Soldier.  Even now.  And Milan would be dangerous for her.

Of course, I could be wrong.  I just don't see Stefan taking over the seethe with Marsilia still alive (undead?)... nor would he let her be killed. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on September 24, 2011, 01:55:17 pm
"There is no let."  Any security/bodyguard professional will tell you that you cannot fend off determined assassins for ever.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on September 24, 2011, 08:48:40 pm
No.  But what I meant was, he's going to do his best to foil any plans made that would result in her demise.  Because that's what he does.  Any would-be assassins are going to have to deal with Stefan at some point.  Either defending her, or out for revenge (or they would have to take him out first to prevent him from meddling)

He might come out as head of the Seethe, but only if all of his preferred choices are exhausted. 

It would be interesting, of course, to see how Seethe-Pack relations (and Stefan-Mercy relations!) would be changed by Stefan being in charge... But I think Marsilia has too much potential as a slightly-ambiguous antagonist for her to be killed off anytime soon.  I don't see Stefan filling that role.  As head of the Seethe, he might have to react more ambivalently towards Mercy, but in a pinch (unless she's going after Marsilia) I see him choosing to defend her every time. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on November 10, 2011, 11:38:49 am
Ok, I started the series already knowing Adam ends up with Mercy because of some people I knew who read the book.....So, that didn't bother me much until Stephan. I liked Adam and Samuel and it really made me sad for Samuel but I have to say Stephan made me cry or close to crying way more than the other two.....

So, by the beginning of book 2 I had my favorite character sorted out, Stephan. He was soooo funny and I died lauphing when he had to sleep in her bedroom and Mercy couldn't sleep with a dead man in her closet who smelled like popcorn and something else so she left . By the end of book 2 I was mad because even though I liked Samuel ,I was armed for Mercy going for Adam. I thought that Steph just thought of her as a good freind .I  was mad bcause I love Stephan but I know Adam is probably best for Mercy and Adam ends up with her. This would be way easier without Stephan loving her because I am super bummed out that my heart wants her to end up with Stephan but my sence knows Adam is best for her. Okay, I am kinda rambling.  LOL

In any case, I may kick my wall when I read the other books with anger and sadness ( I read four so far.) but I won't hate the series and will probably re-read them a million times.
I never thought of Stephan as the head of the seethe and I am not sure if it will work but that might.
As for Sam I loved him but got mad at him when he kissed her so he remembers her while on a date with Adam. I do forgive him though and I think there relationship at the moment is brothr and sister now. I hope everything works out with him and he finds someyone soon.
I like Adam and think he is funny at times too so ,hey, I like them all. No surprise.


In books I usually love the ones like Adam but for some reason the tall pasty white was who I like. I usually like muscular and tan and you know, people like Adam. Though i don't think Steph is really that cute in the books cause he is dead but I see tall, mysterious, and funny.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on November 16, 2011, 12:05:04 pm

Mind you, if any one of them walked up to me with a marriage license application and a ring, I'd run like hell!

Not quite sure I can agree.  LOL ;D :P >D

Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: FizzaLicious on December 06, 2011, 08:59:49 pm
hehe Me neither!

My favorite for Mercy is Adam because as much as she hates someone controlling her life, she kind of longs for it in way so his laid-back-but-I-am-still-going-to-control-you is the best for her!

My personal fave character is totally BEN!!! I love him! ahhh *sigh* :P
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 06, 2011, 10:39:17 pm
Compared to alot of other pack leaders, Adam seems like the best one for not so bad at controlling others lives to the T.

Fizz, Ben is  8) Awesome!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 06, 2011, 10:40:46 pm
<snip> alot of other pack leaders, <snip>

Now there's a visual for you!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 06, 2011, 10:45:59 pm
<snip> alot of other pack leaders, <snip>

Now there's a visual for you!
My grammer mistake?  ??? Sorry, I'm kinda slow at the moment. It is really late. Was that what you were meaning or were you talking about what I was saying?  :)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 06, 2011, 10:49:15 pm
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 06, 2011, 10:54:03 pm
I think I saw that one b4  :P Alot is pretty cute but I do not want to see A LOT of them all at once.  O)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 06, 2011, 10:57:22 pm
Nor alot of pack leaders, eh?
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 06, 2011, 11:01:56 pm
Hey, they can get big and hairy like the alots but I really wouldn't mind having a few more of em' around. Though I guess all of them in one room would be amazing but I would only have one minute to stare at them b4 I would be torn to shreads.

Okay, we better get back on topic before this discussion gets too far astray.  :)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: DandelionWine on December 07, 2011, 05:21:16 am
After all the alots, for some reason I tried to imagine what an astray would look like... yes, astray is a legitimate word used properly, but it still tweaked my imagination after all the pictures of the alots.  Sorry, not much sleep. ;)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 07, 2011, 08:47:42 am
They you may be a noid, & if your Significant Other also slept poorly, you could be a pair o' noids...
I'm still thinking Stephan is NOT couple material. (Just to get back on subject.)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Kyria on December 07, 2011, 11:54:59 am
Agrees with Patti Re: Stefan
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Varg on December 07, 2011, 02:57:43 pm
I do too.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ppbwashu on December 07, 2011, 03:43:45 pm
I agree, too. 
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: FizzaLicious on December 08, 2011, 08:12:55 pm
Me too!
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 09, 2011, 08:43:59 pm
Sorry to break the "agree line"

I think he would be ok for a vampire. Aren't all vampires just a little weird as a husband? they won't be normal anyway.  :P  I think if he found the right girl, vampire or not, he would do just fine. but it might be better if he stuck to the vampire side of things. Then again, another human would help him keep his memories from his real life......then he would stay good and not turn into a marsillia...
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 09, 2011, 08:50:09 pm
It's about expressing your opinion, not falling into line, kiddo. :)
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 11, 2011, 12:40:25 pm
I just feel like I need to give Stephan a chance with love too. Just because he is a vampire doesn't mean there isn't anyone out there for him other than marsillia.  :)
 

Just please don't mistake me as a Twilight lover/ edward lover person.  ;D 9) I like vampires who die from the sun not sparkle like a care bear from it.  :-whistle :-whistle
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 11, 2011, 12:44:06 pm
Oh, Stephan might have a long term relationship that would work, and he'd be very loyal there, as elsewhere.  Just not with a baseline human or Mercy.  He, like Sam, would need someone who it could be REALLY long term with, and who would have some chance of dealing with him on the supernatural level, if not physical strength; preferably both.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 11, 2011, 12:49:09 pm
That is true.  :)

And if he does have a relationship with a human and she dies, he would maybe go all skrewy. I, for one, do not want that to happen.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on December 11, 2011, 01:00:00 pm
Considering how much the damage to his human food sources hurt him, what would happen if a human mate were killed is chilling indeed.  :X
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: ppbwashu on December 12, 2011, 08:15:48 am
If Stefan were to have a relationship, it would have to be someone who would be able to defend herself (along with the above).  Stefan will always have to deal with seethe politics, and it has already been demonstrated that Marsilia and the other vampires have no scruples regarding using people close to Stefan against him.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 13, 2011, 09:55:46 pm
*sigh.* I know...
I really dislike Marsillia.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Pendle on December 15, 2011, 09:49:26 am
Yeah, but does anyone else get the impression that Marsilia used to be good? She just got twisted over time. Then again, if she was caught feeding on her masters mate(?) perhaps I'm wrong.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Eccentric_Rose on December 15, 2011, 04:20:25 pm
Yeah, but does anyone else get the impression that Marsilia used to be good? She just got twisted over time. Then again, if she was caught feeding on her masters mate(?) perhaps I'm wrong.

Yeah I did too she just makes me mad at times.  ;D
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: mellinatre on February 13, 2015, 05:25:38 am
I don't really like like Stefan...I understand where he is coming from and that he is one of the best vampires around in the mercyverse but that doesn't make him suitable for her or anyone else in my opinion...if he want love he need to find a really strong vampire for himself

I understand that vampires usually are so cool in the paranormal genre but in the world that Patricia Briggs have created I don't find them sexy or alluring at all...so I can't really relate with his fan base

For me he have done some pretty s***** things till now, that make him a sometimes good guy and that by itself is not enough, so from my point of view he is totally out of Adam's league if we compare the two of them...and that make him totally unsuitable for Mercy

his authorization to kill Andre's sheep was really like killing a baby at that point...it was a cruelty but probably the only one that I understand

some things that I haven't yet forgiven to him are:

- how he have used the life of a real child to coerce Mercy in forgiven him....crawling and asking for forgiven for a thousand years would have been preferable than use another defenseless and traumatized victim to make is bidding

- how he have treated his menagerie after Marsilia betrayal...this have made me rethink how much he truly care for the people in his care, and it seems that he doesn't care so much....It's not so understandable that because he was so depressed for the death of 4 of his people he chose to make the other ones die also
they were already so beat down that he should have put on stand by his personal pity fest and help them first

- he should have talk with Mercy as soon as he was sure the bond was still there...she had the right to know it and he should have been the one to tell her so (Adam is as guilty as Stefan but I think that Mercy will explain it to him sooner enough...he have been so not forgiven yet IMHO)

it can be that he try to be sincere with her all the time but to me at the end, after a big problem between them have been discovered, he seems to come to her only when he can be fast forgiven because there are more important things to do....kind of convenient for him but Mercy is always left without many option to unlashed her rage

not a very equal relationship in the making

and naturally there are also problems that have more to do about the kind of relationships this vampires have with their people

- Mercy doesn't love Stefan, and never was even inclined to think of him in a romantic way...she haven't ever give away that kind of vibe

- Mercy HATE the menagerie world because any person in it is actually a victim, sometime treated well enough but victims nevertheless (so much so that I can totally picture her help Stefan's sheep to escape the menagerie if she was living there)

- Mercy seems seriously afraid of the idea that Stefan can call her and that she could be at his disposition if he really try

- Stefan's will always be Marsilia's soldier

- Mercy doesn't do okay when she perceive herself like a victim and if she were to live closer in any kind of way to Stefan she would feel like that 24/7
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Janilee on February 13, 2015, 07:24:57 am
 :D Very concise.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: mellinatre on February 13, 2015, 08:56:31 am
^__^ Janilee

it was lightly hinted that the menagerie have sexual relationships with their vampires, but nothing specific have come up till now

I can't really see Mercy willing to let her lover be with someone else...another reason why Stefan is not good for her

and she seems to not enjoy so much the blood exchange...like her body reacts in a way that her mind can't stand...and she have let Stefan drink from her only because it was absolutely necessary, it's not something that I see her willing to do for fun

By the way someone can tell me if I am the only one that isn't sure about Stefan sexuality?

It would be a big help to see if it's only my mind that have saw this thing in that kind of light because I know that he is in love with Mercy (and I am not yet sure how his menagerie works) but after the vampire-demon book I have considered Stefan a probable bisexual...all the bad blood between him and Andre caused by his previous relationship with a male donor sounded a little suspect to me
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: Patti L. on February 13, 2015, 11:57:05 am
Most vampires, if the rush that Mercy got from drinking Stephan's blood is typical (and this is Mercy, so we can't count on that, can we?) and shared by the vampire - something else we can't take for granted - probably do behave as bisexuals, unless they choose their menageries only from the opposite sex.

I'm willing to cut Stephan a bit of a break for having been so tortured by Marsilia that he looked like a burnt mummy.  He - if he'd been human - would have looked (which he did, Mercy describes him exactly that way) and behaved like a starvation victim, and someone who is underfed makes bad choices.  Their chemical balances are all off, and they don't think clearly.  This is part of why the werewolves are always feeding each other/being fed.  You don't want a werewolf making bad choices due to being underfed.  There's a clear corollary here to vampires who don't feed properly.

I never particularly thought Stephan had any chance of Mercy taking him as lover, mate, husband, or vampire master.

They are currently stuck with a "Stephan goes, so does Mercy" bond, but I vaguely suspect that through one means or another, Mercy might get out of that if it came down to his complete destruction (you can't exactly say death, can you?)

With regard to Andre's menagerie, If Stephan had been thinking clearly he might have added them to his group, which would have both saved their lives (however temporarily) and given him a larger group of donors, so that he'd have been farther from starvation without having to go out & find more people later. 
Or, if I've got my timeline wrong - which I suspect I do this moment - it would have given Marsilia a larger pool to torture & sometimes kill in the next book, when she was cutting her ties to him for the vampire politics with Frost.
Title: Re: adam vs. sam vs. stefan
Post by: midnight on February 13, 2015, 12:44:00 pm
I agree with what you are saying about Stefan, in his current relationships between Mercy, Marsillia etc. But I have to wonder if the situation he has been placed into dictates his actions to some degree.

What I mean is, Stefan is a very powerful man with a lot of influence in the vampire society. Vampires have a good deal of respect for him and they seem to listen to him. When you are a leader or in a position of power your choices and decisions (no matter how good your intentions are), will not always suit everyone and often people will take them out of context. You can't make everyone all happy at the exact same time because what suits one person, will not suit another.

So in terms of Stefan, he has a duty to protect his people, he is Mercy and Adam's friend and he lives in the same territory of a very powerful dominant woman who is the lord of the nights favourite. So to make this work, I can see him trying to find a balance.

I know what you are saying about how he treated his people after Marsillia tortured them, but speaking from experience when you lose someone you care about or have been truly hurt and betrayed by someone you considered family, part of the grieving process sometimes is to lash out, be angry and you feel like just giving up. Mercy did the right thing by giving him a boot up the butt because it's needed but it takes time.

Yes Stefan should have told her about the bond and she has a right to know but he doesn't like being a vampire. In his own words (in Blood Bound) he finds it shaming to be what he is, so I think part of it is his own shame and guilt. He values his friendship with her and is frightened of losing it.

All in all I think he's a man who has to balance and juggle a lot of responsibly and that means he can't always be there at a drop of a hat.
I like him but as you said he's not for Mercy. Friendship is a much better place for both of them.