The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Mercy Thompson | A&O Books Board => The Weres => Published Books => Topic started by: Artemis on July 21, 2009, 03:38:41 pm

Title: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on July 21, 2009, 03:38:41 pm
I very rarely get to read/review anything that's to my personal taste, so when I got "Hunting Ground," I was thrilled to death.

I'm not going to give any details away, but it was another great story; thus far, Patty has never disappointed me. I was pleased by the developments in Charles' and Anna's relationship and the mystery they have to solve to protect themselves and Bran's plans for the Werewolves kept me guessing and intrigued. I also liked the expansion/embroidery of the Were universe.

I'm probably preaching to the choir, but you really should pick it up when it goes on sale!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on July 21, 2009, 04:56:59 pm
* weeps with impatience *

You are taunting us!  LOL

(Just kidding.  I'm dying to read this book, and now I'm at the nail-biting stage.  :D )
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on July 21, 2009, 06:27:25 pm
No taunting, honest. I just don't want to spoil your reading by giving too many details. It's a great book, and it explores some more Omega stuff, which I particularly liked.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on July 21, 2009, 06:37:52 pm
It'll appear Thursday. If the mods don't mind, I'll link to it. Would that be okay?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on July 21, 2009, 06:40:09 pm
That would be great.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: charmed on July 21, 2009, 07:06:48 pm
It'll appear Thursday. If the mods don't mind, I'll link to it. Would that be okay?

That sounds good. If there's anything at all spoilerish, just make sure to state that right before the link so people can choose to avoid it if they want. :)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on July 22, 2009, 03:05:28 pm
Where / how did you get an early copy? 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Has on July 22, 2009, 03:18:58 pm
I think she got an ARC/Review copy- Harriet Klausener has a review up right now :S

And I think comiccon Anne Sowards is going to give a couple away there - said so on twitter!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on July 22, 2009, 03:57:12 pm
OOOH! I'm so jealous! Lucky Artemis  :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on July 23, 2009, 09:02:59 am
A smallish part of my job is reviewing books, so yeah, I got an ARC copy. A girlfriend of mine runs a bookstore, and they get ARCs as well. I've always wanted to work at a bookstore, but have never been lucky enough to do so.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Jane on July 26, 2009, 02:48:19 pm
I got a review copy and OMG, loved it. Absolutely!

That's all I'm saying. :P
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Has on August 02, 2009, 05:04:09 am
Thanks for the review! its just made me hanker for the book even more now ;D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on August 02, 2009, 05:46:53 pm
Thank you all for the kind words about the review. They are actually the hardest things I do -- I am always afraid of either sounding like a gushing school girl or a book snob.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talisman Maker on August 05, 2009, 05:28:54 am
there's another one I found...It's not much of a review, more a recap, but there's a bit about Patty and her world building talents


http://www.alternative-worlds.com/2009/07/05/hunting-ground-patricia-briggs/
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Midangel on August 05, 2009, 06:18:31 am
I'm soooo torn. One half is screaming 'read the reviews' for any snippets, but the half is saying nooooo- Wait till the book is released and everything will be a surprise. LOL

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: f00-ssa on August 13, 2009, 10:04:03 am
Spoiler
Fae aren't supposed to be able to break their word :-' :-'

Other than that, nice but short and less divided than #1.





ETA: Subject line changed to incorporate all Hunting Ground discussion. Elle.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Elle on August 13, 2009, 10:06:21 am
They can't lie but I don't remember reading anything about them not being able to break their word
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: f00-ssa on August 13, 2009, 10:27:49 am
An important distinction under the circumstances, but I thought it was both?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Elle on August 13, 2009, 10:32:38 am
I think it's possible to not lie yet still break your word to someone.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 13, 2009, 11:26:57 pm
Well, I finished it yesterday and I have started rereading it, be warned, I will keep spoilers to a minimum so do not read this if you are sensitive to those. You know on second thought, I will just put it all in spoiler tags, read at your own risk!

The book starts off quite satisfying, as we have already read. The plot picks up very quickly and things start moving on very quickly. The plot was very satisfying. My only complain is the lack of characterization for most of the Alphas. Not many were named and we didn't get much information on what they were like.

Charles has a very cool Crowning Moment of Awesome in my mind towards the end of the book where he runs down the street chasing a van, wills the stop light to remain red, then jumps through the rear window into a van! He then proceeds to kill one vampire, immobilize another, kill the third and make the fourth run away in fear! Anna gets her own as well. I <3 Anna! :-LOVE She gets a lot of character growth in this book. Makes me very happy!

Overall, a very satisfying book. It has a clearly defined beginning, middle and end. Lot of character growth for both main characters. We get some more back story on Bran. I am very happy with this book.

Feel free to post your own reviews when you get the book.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Jojo on August 15, 2009, 08:49:26 am
I got my copy in the post when I got back early this afternoon and finished it a short time ago. I had high hopes for this book and wasn't disappointed at all! I'm now going to re-read my favourite bits because when I first get a long-awaited book I just rush through it and the re-read lets me savour it!

I love the way Ms Briggs develops characters, no quick fixes but no whining and obsessing. I'll stop now before I give any spoilers.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Midangel on August 17, 2009, 07:46:24 am
Just finished reading it. Wow, that was a jam packed book. It was even better than Cry Wolf. Will come back at a later date to discuss. Need to process. :P
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Midangel on August 17, 2009, 09:01:40 am
Righty, had some food, collected all my thoughts...now discussion time. Down below contains major spoilers. Do not move the mouse over the black tags if you don't want to know! So, duly warned:

First off, I think this was a better book than Cry Wolf. Cry wolf was good. Very, very good but Hunting Ground is even better! :D

I thought the characters were fully fleshed out in this book, and the plot was strongly driven. Anna totally rocked.  She came out of her protective shell and we saw how strong of a person she truly is. It was Anna who grounded Charles in this book, and we saw what an Omega can do and what it achieves within a pack structure. I think Anna truly realised this in Hunting Ground - when she started using her abilities impulsively when she noticed discord or when someone was emotionally hurting.

In Cry Wolf, Charles and Brother Wolf had to restrain themselves for Anna, but they were unleashed in Hunting Ground. It was cool seeing Anna talk with Brother Wolf. How did Charles explain it? Him and Brother Wolf are one man, one soul but they are two spirits within. Obviously, their wolves know they are each others mate's instinctively, but I don't think their wolves have finally met one to one without Charles and Anna holding back. While they were making love, Anna's wolf came out to take charge, and Charles had to reign in Brother Wolf. It will be great to see all of them coming together fully. :)

In a way, this series reminds of Eve and Roarke from the In Death books by J.D Robb. Not the characteristics of the characters or the plots, but their journey as a couple they take in each book. Both are an established couple, but I think it's the development of their relationship, and them learning how to deal with each bump, and curve that drops in their way that what makes the readers glued. Well, it does for me.

Will come back later to discuss more especially the plot, but I want to mention this. I'm going to take a bet, odds in favour, that we will see Asil's son in future books. I hope so. That I did NOT seeing coming. :D 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 17, 2009, 10:32:10 am
Hey Mid, now that you mention it, your probably right. That little bit of character development will most likely play a role later. I also think we will see more of Ric. Maybe him visiting Aspen Creek to get omega lessons from Asil as well, or maybe Anna?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Midangel on August 17, 2009, 10:37:53 am
I think so also. Bran's pack seems to be the care unit for unstable or/and untutored wolves. I hope we see more of Hussan(sp?) as there seems to be some tension between him and Asil that needs resolving.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 17, 2009, 09:03:01 pm
Makes me wonder how old Hussan is, eh? Also, who his mother is? Makes me want the next A&O book even more. I also wonder what new developments we will see out of Europe now that the Beast is dead.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Linnea on August 21, 2009, 12:10:07 am
Well, I wasn't sure of the exact date Hunting Ground was to be released, so when I checked in last night and saw that some people had received their copies, I packed up the kids and rushed off on a midnight trip to the SuperWalmart with my fingers crossed, hoping it would be in stock.  Bitter disappointment!   :-'  Despite having an entire aisle of urban fantasy, fantasy, and young adult fantasy, including Cry Wolf, they didn't have it.   :-\

So, I made a special trip to the mall after class today and accidently parked on the complete wrong side and had to walk all the way around to get to Borders Express.  There I stood, eagerly scanning the new releases, only to be disappointed again!   :(  How is Patty supposed to debut at #1 on the NY Times Bestseller List if the stores aren't stocking her book.  Unacceptable!  >:(  I wrangled up a saleslady and it turned out they had 14 copies, just sitting in the back room!  Well, now there's 13, on the shelf where they belong, and one precious copy in my hands.   :P   I've spent the rest of the day devouring it, and so, on to my review:

I loved it!  :-LOVE Definitely worth the hassle.  I must admit, Cry Wolf wasn't really my favorite.  The icy cold landscape in most of the book kind of put me off, though I liked the characters.  In Hunting Ground, I liked seeing more of their relationship at they sound each other out and get to know each other.  I liked that they didn't instantly click into a perfect crime-fighting team, and that Anna's Omega powers are not the perfect solution for every problem.  This series has definitely come up my favorites list after this book.

This story was pretty action packed, too.  Every time I tried to put it down, someone got shot, stabbed, bitten, kidnapped, or killed!  I had no choice but to read the whole thing through.  Yet as action packed as it was, it was filled with great little moments between Anna and Charles. I loved the cute little detail about the goldfish in the hotel.  Those moments are something I miss with Mercy and Adam.  They're so independent, they spend too much time apart.  It's nice to see people who need each other.  The two series complement each other well, with their different tones.

The only thing I don't care for is the characters' over-reasoning of other characters' motives.  I don't get how they could assume they know the bad guys every motive and assume that everyone is so predictable, so having characters speculate so deeply bugs me I guess.  I'd rather events just unfolded more naturally with people slipping up and giving themselves away.  Oh well, I'll just skim those paragraphs in the future.  8)

BTW, where is everyone?  ???  I thought there'd be way more comments and reviews here by now.  I know a lot of people have been counting down the days until Hunting Ground's release.

~Linnea
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Elle on August 21, 2009, 01:19:11 am
Linnea,

I think there are a lucky few who have gotten early copies but the majority have to wait until the release date of the 25th. I'm sure once that date hits this thread will be flooded.  :) Glad to know you enjoyed it!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on August 21, 2009, 03:40:17 pm
 I thought that the Lady of the Lake said that she would give Bran a gift equal to the one he gave her, i.e. something that would wound him as deeply as the painting of her lake wounded her -- Charles' death? So is it a lie, a half-truth or just an obscure truth misunderstood by Charles & Anna?

Or is the lie you are referring to the oath she had made to protect those at the summit? Am I completely wrong, or wasn't the summit over when she attacked Charles? Does that negate her oath? I suppose that it must be so, or else the Grey Lords wouldn't send Anna to deliver their justice.

Of course, since Anna was suppose to die (the Grey Lords having underestimated the abilities of an Omega wolf) and it was to serve as a warning to the Lady, maybe it was in a "grey" area -- not quite a broken oath, but close enough that the Grey Lords decided she needed a warning. Then again, the Lady herself said that she had been false ...
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Tazallie on August 21, 2009, 04:53:31 pm
I love intellectual crushes -- y'know, that feeling you get when you realize that this person gets it just the same way you do

Absolutely!

Its one of the reasons I love the Mercy and Alpha & Omega series (especially Hunting Ground and Bone Crossed) working in the field of counselling its amazing to find an author who shows that as much as we want to 'get over' things it isnt as easy as some books, film and TV portray...which often leaves people feeling like failures because they can't move on in a day, a week or even a month. 

Yep I have an intellectual crush on Patricia Briggs!  :-[

n I will get off my soap box now  :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Linnea on August 22, 2009, 12:40:22 am
Oops!   :-[  And here I thought the stores were just being horribly negligent (sp?) in failing to stock the book!  Oh well, if anyone is in the area of Elyria, OH, they're on the shelf in Borders at the mall.  I hope the saleslady doesn't get in trouble now for putting them out early.   :(  I didn't know the exact release date, just that forum members reported receiving their copies, so I thought it had been released. 

~Linnea
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 24, 2009, 03:36:46 am
Don't worry too much about it Linnea, that store wouldn't be the first that did it. I think I bought mine on the 12th for example!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Midangel on August 24, 2009, 04:24:43 am
So, for those who have read the book What did you think of the revelation that Bran was alive when King Arthur was about, and it was hinted he actually knew him?? I thought that was so cool, but wow, how far does Bran  go back  :o ?


ETA: Spoiler tags removed. Elle
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Omega 303 on August 24, 2009, 08:40:54 am
I really loved the book and can't wait for the next one to come out. I wonder though will Anna's wolf open up to charles the way Charles wolf opened up to her. Did anyone get why Auther killed his wife instead of just changing her I know he liked Anna but why not just change Sunny? She wold have been an Omega also.

ETA: Spoiler tags removed. Elle
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 24, 2009, 12:47:22 pm
It's probably go something to do with the fact that she most likely didn't want to be a were. That and it's hard to find a wolf that can attack a omega, even a human one. Remember how Anna got changed? How many others before her died because Justin got a little over eager? This way, Arthur, being cold blooded and logical... no, he was just crazy on that, if he thought he could get Anna to stay with him. Still, setting up vampires to kill your own mate, how did he get his wolf to go along with that?

Bran, no wonder he is such a bad ass. Been alive that long, actually had to use a sword to keep himself alive as he put it. Yeah, you definitely get really good or really dead by that point.

ETA: Spoiler tags removed. Elle
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: aussiegoober on August 24, 2009, 01:07:17 pm
Don't ask me how (I was shocked myself) but my local Walmart had "Hunting Ground" on the shelves last Friday and I managed to grab the last book. I won't give away anything other than to say ..... IT IS AWESOME. So worth the wait and I couldn't put it down (had it read in just over 3 hours) The only sad thing is that now there's the long wait for the next one.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: charmed on August 24, 2009, 01:48:17 pm
It's probably go something to do with the fact that she most likely didn't want to be a were. That and it's hard to find a wolf that can attack a omega, even a human one. Remember how Anna got changed? How many others before her died because Justin got a little over eager? This way, Arthur, being cold blooded and logical... no, he was just crazy on that, if he thought he could get Anna to stay with him. Still, setting up vampires to kill your own mate, how did he get his wolf to go along with that?


Plus, don't forget that Arthur believed that Anna was his Guenevere. So, even if he was wavering about killing Sunny, once he got it in his head that Anna was Guenevere, he believed he had no choice.

ETA: Spoiler tags removed. Elle
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lilliana on August 24, 2009, 05:27:41 pm
loved, loved, loved Hunting Ground... still absorbing since I just finished it 10 minutes ago. But here are a few thoughts...
I'm very curious about Moira. I hope we learn more about her in the future. I want more of Ric too. I like his spunky personality. Angus needs a mate.  LOL  I would like to know more about him as well.

I really enjoyed seeing how Anna and Charle's relationship has blossomed. Anna has come out of her shell and has learned to embrace her Omega abilities - Zen wolf.

ETA: Spoiler tags removed. Elle
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: aussiegoober on August 24, 2009, 06:26:06 pm
Ok I figured it out. Someone said they'd like to know more about Moira. Well it doesn't give a full background but if you read the anthology "Strange Brew" the first story is about Moira and Tom meeting and a little about her relationship with her father. Interesting story for a little background. The anthology was just released in the last 2 months :)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lilliana on August 25, 2009, 04:21:34 am
Ok I figured it out. Someone said they'd like to know more about Moira. Well it doesn't give a full background but if you read the anthology "Strange Brew" the first story is about Moira and Tom meeting and a little about her relationship with her father. Interesting story for a little background. The anthology was just released in the last 2 months :)

That would be me. I have not read Strange Brew yet. Its on my wishlist.
Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: nottled on August 25, 2009, 07:53:23 am
I loved it. I mean really, how can we not love Patty's books?  :-LOVE

After dwellin' on it for a day or two, I feel a couple of things.

I'm happy Anna is making some progress with her healing and getting control of her fear. I like that she's trying to overcome her fear instead of sinking into Charles and hiding. I think it's also very realistic that she's afraid of him too. Lots of books have this "knight in shining armour" moment and suddenly, the heroine isn't afraid.

I get the whole "brother wolf" thing but I wanted him to look around a bit more at the other wolves, like Talyn (I think) said. 

I agree with Linnesea when she said, "The only thing I don't care for is the characters' over-reasoning of other characters' motives.  I don't get how they could assume they know the bad guys every motive and assume that everyone is so predictable, so having characters speculate so deeply bugs me I guess.  I'd rather events just unfolded more naturally with people slipping up and giving themselves away. "

Introspection bugs me too. I don't know why but I want less head waffling and more action!!!!!!!  :D

I kind of get why the other wolves are scared of Charles but because we know him to be a good man and haven't seen him REALLY have to be brutal with someone who walked the line between deserving to die and not deserving to die, I'm only taking Patty's word for it that he's scary. He doesn't really scare me. I ramble a little............. :-[

I thought the fae was done beautifully. Scary and horrible in that "fae way".  ;D And the troll!!! What a creepy dude! Fantastic!


All in all, it was another great book that I'll enjoy reading again and again. I love this world and it's one of my favorite places to get lost.  :)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Elle on August 25, 2009, 04:58:05 pm
What surprised me when I picked it up today...the cover! I don't know, for some reason I was expecting it to be bluish so the purple completely threw me when I was looking for it. :) Totally gorgeous. Yay! Hunting Ground Day.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 25, 2009, 07:09:30 pm
Same for me, Elle.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: wantabadamlover on August 25, 2009, 10:10:21 pm
I loved it and now we have a year to wait for it all to continue.... :-' 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Demi on August 25, 2009, 11:25:24 pm
I could read it yesterday because https://www.cyberread.com/ (https://www.cyberread.com/)
has it for download and my books from Amazon will come most likley today.

I loved it!!! I loved the character development, i loved them lovey dovey
all of their interaction, i closed the book with the impression they REALLY
care deeply for each other. I loved the action.

Their development together is something i would like to see with mercy and adam too.

Some say they don´t need the reasons of why some bad guy does what he does
( maybe i misunderstood it so please correct me if i do) But for me it worked just fine.
I like it when everything makes sense, and is not out of the blue.

Yaaaii for Hunting Ground, another terrific job Mrs. Briggs :-LOVE!!!!!! Thank you :)))
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Omega 303 on August 26, 2009, 01:41:42 am
I was very glad Patty explain the whole one man two spirits because it really does seem that they have two different soul. i mean they do tend to disagree alot when it comes to Anna Brother Wolf doesn't want Anna to not know them... everything about them but charles on the other hand doesn't want Anna to know to much about what he has done in the past because he's afraid she will be disgusted. And I think Anna still have somethings she need to work out before she is also able to open up completely to Charles. So I feel once they really get past all of that then their mate bond will bring more gifts them then more gifts than we can imagine.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on August 26, 2009, 04:51:56 am
wonder if Anna's wolf is sorts doing the same as brother wolf
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lilliana on August 26, 2009, 05:08:32 am
 I remember reading in the book that Charles's wolf is more present because he was born a wolf, rather than someone who is Changed. But when the Fae was trying to influence Charles with magic to kill the Beast, Anna's wolf helped her notice what Dana was doing. I wonder if Anna's wolf will become more present because of her bond with Brother Wolf since Brother Wolf is an Alpha. Anna's wolf could be pulling power through there bond like Anna pulls power from Charles.

I think I got all of that correct, I dont have my book in front of me.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on August 26, 2009, 05:11:37 am
mine theory, started because when she started seducing Charles,because knew the wolf was in charge. Plus a few pages later they had a convertion about it
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on August 26, 2009, 05:22:34 am
I loved the book!  :D
I was afraid, that after they mated, their relationship would magically solve itself and everything would be right between them from the start. I liked the fact that they still have to struggle with their feelings etc.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lilliana on August 26, 2009, 05:27:01 am
mine theory, started because when she started seducing Charles,because knew the wolf was in charge. Plus a few pages later they had a convertion about it

Was it mentioned that wolves normally do things like that? Or is it because Brother Wolf pulls Anna's wolf out of her? She wasnt surprised by her wolf's actions.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: mystify on August 26, 2009, 07:13:13 am
Finished it last night and I loved it! The only thing I was sad about was that we didn't get much of the other characters from the last book. But that's totally fine because the book was great and really it took place in only a couple days.  I wish we could have seen Anna give Charles the Christmas present she bought him but really, I have no complaints. Another great book!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 26, 2009, 07:48:19 am
Ric's wolf is the same? Are omegas just different? Or is her bond with Charles what is doing it?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on August 26, 2009, 09:34:29 am
I think it's more like the conversation she had with Charles about how most people had to learn to live with their wolves.  Anna never needed to push her wolf into submission, but she did need her wolf's help in dealing with her abuse.  I think she developed her own particular relationship with her wolf on her own, and it's different from that of most werewolves.  I'd guess that being Omega is part of it, but not the whole story.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lilliana on August 26, 2009, 09:41:24 am
Well said Ellyll, that's makes sense. The conversation about Anna's wolf is coming back to me now.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 26, 2009, 11:13:17 am
I think the difference is, Anna doesn't see her wolf as a threat, more of her protector when she needs it. It was the wolf that came up and helped Anna survive when she was still part of the "other" pack. It was the wolf who came up to help her break the Witch's magic so she could help Charles.

Other were's only have the wolf coming up at inopportune times. So the wolf gets suppressed. Anna's more close to what Charles is, but not quite. I hope we get more of Ric, see if his relationship with his wolf develops similarly to Anna's. I just want to know if Anna is a anomaly or not.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on August 26, 2009, 01:37:44 pm
I think the difference is, Anna doesn't see her wolf as a threat, more of her protector when she needs it. It was the wolf that came up and helped Anna survive when she was still part of the "other" pack. It was the wolf who came up to help her break the Witch's magic so she could help Charles.

Other were's only have the wolf coming up at inopportune times. So the wolf gets suppressed. Anna's more close to what Charles is, but not quite. I hope we get more of Ric, see if his relationship with his wolf develops similarly to Anna's. I just want to know if Anna is a anomaly or not.

I think you're exactly right, Talyn.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: mdauben on August 26, 2009, 01:46:36 pm
Well, I downloaded my ebook version of HG from Fictionwise yesterday morning, and I just finished it this afternoon.  Wow!  What a great book!  Definetly my favorite of the A&O series so far.  :-LOVE

I liked Anna and Charles from the first in Alpha & Omega, but in each book I find myself liking them more and more.  The development of their two characters in this book was great and added tremendously to my enjoyment of the story.  Of course, the mystery and almost non-stop action didn't hurt either!  Getting to see both Charles and Anna kick some ass was awsome!   :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: primalSCREAM on August 26, 2009, 02:28:46 pm
Thank you Patty for another great book! I loved the way you got really into the mate bond relationship, it brought me even closer to these 2 characters! It actually seemed as though I could personally feel it! I got a kick out of the reference to "smiling Bob" in the natural male enhancement adverts...I also was sick of seeing them!  I never expected the culprit to be who it was! Never expected him to do what he did to his mate! the story was superb! The ending was great (in true character to Anna).  Can't wait for the next book!!!!! You really leave us wanting MORE!!!!!!! :)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 26, 2009, 04:11:14 pm
I Loved it!!!!!!!!

Anna saves the day again! Part of it is because she is different and nobody takes her into account, so it makes sense for the first couple of books, but I hope that the books don't always end with Anna saving the day (Isabella, Mariposa, the lady of the lake).

these books do a lot of  guessing of motives. In my experience that is what happens in  mystery books. Almost a genre necessity, the author has to let you know what the characters are thinking in order to explain why they act the way they do. It made sense to put it into what is, essentially, a mystery book.

I like the way everyone knows Asil. It makes him a much more real/ powerful character. His son being his alpha also helps explain why he wouldn't kill Asil. So, was his son born before or after Asil became a were? is it Sarai's or someone else? Did he know mariposa? So many questions!!!!
P.S. I was trying to remember how to make the spoiler tag, looked at the top and guess what news banner was up there?  LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 26, 2009, 08:36:28 pm
I loved meeting all the characters. And that group hunt they had, that would have been fun to see. I really loved this, the tender moments, the fast-pace, and the all around awsomeness. But it leaves one wondering, what really does happen if a fae breaks their word?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 26, 2009, 09:36:04 pm
they get chased down by the wild hunt? ???

that was what I thought the answer was.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 26, 2009, 09:51:21 pm
I'm inclined to agree with Brother Wolf, she was ment as a sacrifice.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 26, 2009, 10:20:52 pm
But at which point did they decide so? Before or after she decided to break her word
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 26, 2009, 10:36:27 pm
In regard to that, I'd say my question was did she promise to help Bran keep it 'neutral' before she started her deal with the bad guy to get Excalibur back?  If so, then she was breaking her word right away.  If she started from the idea of getting her charge back from the bad guy, and came to the idea of saying she'd help Bran from there, because that was the price he demanded from her, then she never was in a deal with Bran in the first place.
At least, that's the way I see it.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 26, 2009, 11:02:06 pm
either way, she lied at some point by telling Bran she would keep things neutral, then not doing it.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 27, 2009, 12:04:20 am
Huuum, now I wonder, why do the fae always keep their word? How did this tradition start? The Grey lords enforce it, even amongst themselves.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Omega 303 on August 27, 2009, 02:05:44 am
In regard to that, I'd say my question was did she promise to help Bran keep it 'neutral' before she started her deal with the bad guy to get Excalibur back?  If so, then she was breaking her word right away.  If she started from the idea of getting her charge back from the bad guy, and came to the idea of saying she'd help Bran from there, because that was the price he demanded from her, then she never was in a deal with Bran in the first place.
At least, that's the way I see it.

No I don't think she wasn't intend to break her word. At first she refused to help, Then Arthur offered her Excalibur. And the fact that she thought the Marrok was taunting her with the gift he gave her made it worst, so she took offence and wanted the Marrok th suffer more than she. So she attemped to kill Charles.

I have a Question In the book after Arthur stabbed Charles he was able to call on the pack magic I thought only alphas can draw form the pack. I may be missing something here though. I know in Bone Cross Adam felt Mercy stress and he draw on the pack magic to soothe her, But I think he was to one to send it to Mercy once he drew it from the pack.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on August 27, 2009, 06:06:41 am
That was pretty clearly stated, Omega.  Here's the quote: "Charles gave the pack magic a little tug and received a bounty in return.  He wasn't the Alpha, but his father could grant him help if he chose.  And Bran was a generous leader."  So this was, I think, very similar to what Adam did for Mercy, but Charles, being werewolf and all, can ask, and knows to do so.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 27, 2009, 09:19:51 am
My question all last night (I should have gone on and posted it, then I might have gotten some sleep  9) ) What if Bran was King Arthur?

We already know Bran was Grendal (from Beowolf) so being a famous person (villain) isn't out of character.
and uniting Englishmen to fight Anglo-Saxons seems like good practice for uniting werewolves of North America.

His system of wolves-Alphas- Marrock is kinda like feudal system that (if I got my timeline and term right) was in Arthurian England.

Now I've posted it it doesn't seem like quite the brilliant idea from Patty's point of view. Having a character that was King Arthur might seem... kinda pretentious or something. plus, so many people are experts on King Arthur that it would be hard to do.

maybe not such a good idea from a writer's standpoint, but interesting to consider from the point of view of a reader.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on August 27, 2009, 10:17:52 am
Not so much, Avarel.  Even the experts aren't experts on King Arthur.  There are so many different tales (and believe me, they're VERY different), and the origin stories are lost in time.  But Bran wasn't specifically Grendel.  Asil says that Grendel was made from Bran and others.  One of those tales drawing from many roots was how I took it.  (Although Grendel did have a really mean mother.  >D )  Also, the feudal system came later than the historical King Arthur.

It's an interesting thought.  Even if that doesn't turn out to be the case, the story implies that Bran (and Sam) is even older than we thought.  The historical Arthur is something like 1500 years ago, at least, and if Bran knew him personally...
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 27, 2009, 01:29:20 pm
When does Grendle fit into the timeframe? I only remember old. pre 1066, pre middle ages. I can't remember.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on August 28, 2009, 12:17:14 am
Ellyll is right, the experts don't agree on anything about Arthur, even to the point of whether or not he was an actual historical figure.  I am a grad student in Eng Lit studying Medieval Literature and one of the funniest things I remember one of my professors saying was before several of us went to the Zoo (Kalamazoo, largest Medieval Studies Conference in the US).  She told us, "Stay away from the Arthurians!  They're all crazy, some even believe he's coming back.  Really!"  All that aside, Patty got alot of the details right. 

1)  Lancelot and even Guinevere do not appear in the earliest texts and Lancelot is totally an adaptation from French lit introduced by the Anglo-Normans.

2)  A historic Arthur would almost definitely have been focused entirely on saving Briton (not Angland) from the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes than in pursuing a treasure hunt for the Grail.

As to the dating of Beowulf, this one is slightly problematic.  The only manuscript copy, which is roughly dated to the 10th c, was burned in a fire in the (wait for it) Ashburnham Library sometime in the late 18th century (don't remember the exact date) and while it survived was badly.  One of the best references for the text is a transcript made some time before the fire.  What is known is that the story is Scandinavian, not native to the British Isles (not Welsh, Scottish, or Anglo-Saxon).  Some think it was originally translated and written down for one of the Viking rulers who invaded England in the ninth and tenth centuries. Confused yet?  The English poem is the only text which tells the story, though several Scandinavian sources and analogues exist.
Which is to say, it's very hard to date "Beowulf", none of the experts really agree.

Ellyll is also right when she notes that Bran serves as the inspiration for Grendel, he is not the actual monster.  However, in the dating of Beowulf, it's date of composition almost definitely predates 1000, and many experts place it at 750-850.  Though some argue the story would have originated earlier.  Also, if you consider the time that it would take for a figure to become legend, Bran could date to the time of the Anglo-Saxon invasions of Briton.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: jenniwee on August 28, 2009, 12:34:22 am
On a different note, I think Dana (Nimue) was playing a bit fast and loose with her oath, trying to skirt around it.  I think she tried to get charles to attack and kill Chastel within the bounds of the oath.  She influenced Chastel to attack Anna and then colored Charles' perception of the fight so he would overreact.  Until Bran sent the painting, I think she intended to give Arthur enough rope to hang himself and then take Excalibur back.  After the painting I think she tried to use her oath to find a way to kill Charles.  If Anna had not stepped in, Dana would have sent the wolves out to kill Charles before anyone could have noted that the rule covering blood letting during the hunt no longer applied.  And as Charles pointed out to Angus, she only needed to convince the Grey Lords, who accept "good enough" evidence as long as they have someone to pay the price for their "justice."
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: wolverine on August 28, 2009, 07:03:34 am
Hey ya'll!  it's been a long time.  I am at work so I have to keep this short and to the point.  I loved HG.  I've skimmed it twice since I read it the first time.  I am in no way disappointed in it BUT!  I would love to have had more background on Anna and Charles.  I know we got some of that BUT! I just wanted more.  I love the mentoring type relationship that I think Charles has with Anna and not just the physical one.  I know we already have some details about Ana's first pack but I think we need a bit more.  We also know about Charles and that he has been his father's assassin for a long time...but not much more. I did love the way Ana and Charles talked about things from their past and I like how Ana is becoming more confident in SOME areas of her life but not all---if she was a super confident wolf all of a suddend that wouldn't seem realistic to me. She has too much to work through.  Keep up the good work Patty.  I can't wait for more.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: odile on August 28, 2009, 02:31:00 pm
Still wondering about Talyn's questions:
Why is it so horrible if a fae breaks his/her word? Why aren't they able to lie?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 28, 2009, 02:48:28 pm
It could be as simple as the idea that as long as they don't lie, people won't look too closely at what they're not saying. Or it could be similair to the moon working on werewolves. Just simply part of who they are.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on August 28, 2009, 03:06:29 pm
Well, in folklore, it's frequently said that the fae can't lie or break their word.  It's never said why.  So Patty has a wide latitude in deciding that for her stories/world. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: paceberly on August 28, 2009, 04:48:22 pm
 :-LOVE   I am absolutely in love with these books. I just wish I wouldn't have devoured Hunting Ground so quickly because now I have such a long wait for more Anna and Charles.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on August 28, 2009, 10:29:08 pm
Ok, not sure how the black out thingy works, so I'll post my review and hopefully a mod can catch it (and send a pm how to do that) and fix it for me.

Overall I loved the book. Another stellar work by Briggs. Though there were a few "choppy" parts (I say choppy for lack of a better word). For instance the shift between Anna and Charles in the hotel working on Anna's personal issues to instantly her being held captive by the Vamps. I know for Anna it would have been just like that, but I dunno, it seemed rushed to me. And some of the actions scene's seemed blocked off, like she had more written into them but had to shave them down a bit and didn't get them rounded back into shape. I would have to go back and re-read for more examples (brain is tired right now). Overall, HG had more roughly cut scene's then CW.

Now, this doesn't take away the effect that HG had on me. I felt that the characters were more fleshed out then CW. In CW we get a sense that Anna and Charles are fleshing out their human relationship. Its obvious from the start that their wolves are perfectly content with each other (proving that animals are smarter than humans when it comes to relationships) and the humans are the ones who have to work things out. In HG we see that not only are their human parts in love with each other, they are both forcing each other out of their respective shells. Anna's shell (or cage could be a better description) is more pronounced because of the trauma that induced the need for it. However we finally get to see Charles breaking out of his cage he built himself over the many years he has been his Da's ax man. He is finally allowing himself to experience emotions and finds that not only does he enjoy them but he has missed out on many years of happiness because he locked them up. IMO this is a perfect analogy to a true relationship. Yes, in the beginning its about lust (a very basic, primal urge), then trust develops and love is not too far behind. Once two humans find that they have lust, trust and love they settle down with each other. Once this happens both of them urge the other to grow in many ways. This could be something as simple as not leaving the seat up when the guy uses the restroom (something I myself have yet to master much to the chagrin of my wife) or something as deep as recover from an addiction.

All in all, its masterfully written with only a few minor flaws (at least flaws in my own opinion) and does great strides in cementing the character's identities. I was particularly glad that Bran did not have much influence on this book. We have almost a complete picture of him from the Mercy stories and CW. This was Anna and Charles's breakout book and it was well written. Thank you Patty, now go write us more about them! **cracks his whip**  >D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on August 28, 2009, 11:34:36 pm
Oh that was wonderful!!! I love Hunting Ground even more than Cry Wolf. Also this thread has been killing me!!! Knowing that all these spoilers were here and not being able to read them yet was pure torture.

Thank you Patti for another amazing read!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on August 29, 2009, 02:15:03 am
I loved Hunting Ground.  Loved the way it advanced their relationship, the way that it exposes weaknesses and personality flaws and fears, makes Charles a bit more human.  In the first couple of books, it seemed like Anna was a bit outmatched with someone who had money, age and experience, greater wisdom about the supernatural, physical strength, etc while she was really insecure and less experienced and young.   In HG, she not only provided a lot of support for Charles, but she managed to face down the fae, face down Chastel, and demonstrate some bravery and cunning.  She also got a chance to work on her fear of strange dominants and gain some respect in the world of werewolves.  At the same time, we saw Charles' greatest fear and his ongoing control issues.  He's still smart, wise and strong and she's still got some insecurities but the relationship seemed more balanced.

As for the plot, well, as usual I never guessed where it was going or who the villains were.  Chastel was obvious but the others were a total surprise.  There were a few things that seemed kind of formulaic for her, like the extensive discussions of who was behind everything.  She puts those in every book and it seemed a bit heavy here.  Anna seemed to be channelling Mercy's mother a little bit with her film star imitation.  The line where Bran said "We aren't cats to play with our food" was also a repeat from another book.  Still, I liked the overall plot and enjoyed the book all the way to the end.

I hope for the next book we get to see a little more Aspen Creek.  What's day to day life like there?  How're Asil and Sage doing, and are they becoming a couple at all?  How're Leah and Anna getting along?  Does Anna feel like she's fitting in with the rest of the pack, making friends?  Can Anna coax a little information from Bran about his early life?  (He owes her a few favors after all!)  Does Anna find a job and learn how to quilt?  Since she's destined to find herself in all of these life-threatening situation, do charles and brother wolf give her fighting lessons?  And more Bran, I love Bran!!!

(Also, I hope to see more Tom and Moira and Angus.  Maybe a novella about the Emerald City pack?) 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 29, 2009, 10:04:00 am
I actually like the consistent re-use of certain phrases; it's very true to life, in my opinion.  I've caught one of my bosses mocking/teasing me by repeating  back stock phrases that I use characteristically, or physical versions of the same.  As, when I've finished discussing a few issues/chores with him, I tend to clasp my hands in front of me with a soft clap, indicating I'm done & ready to go out & conquer the work.  He'll clap his hands back at me.  So I find it an acute observation that Bran in particular, as old as he is, has certain very well worn phrases that he repeats.  I wouldn't be unhappy if it turned into a running joke in the two series, Bran, or one of the people who knows him well using the phrase and thinking about "as Bran says, yadda yadda", rolling their eyes, but it becomes a cliche because it's true at it's base, and "No, we are not cats, to play with our food."
As to the discussions of who is behind things, that's a requirement of the fact that there are mystery villains.  Can you imagine reall life detectives solving anything without discussing with each other who could be the culprit, and their best guesses as to why, or why not?
I mean, when it's a group effort, not loners like Columbo, or Banacek, but the groups, like in "Criminal Minds", "Without a Trace", "Numb3rs", "NCIS", any of the "CSI"; everyone has their favorite suspects, but they want to catch the real criminals (in spite of the snide remarks people make about human justice looking for "good enough"), so they will drop the efforts to convict the wrong person to get the true wrongdoers.  And to do that, they have to share their reasoning, as well as the clues they find, and their interpretations of them.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Redbirdie on August 29, 2009, 11:02:00 am
A home run!  I just finished Hunting Ground this very minute and had to come on and say well done! bOuNcY
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Cerulean on August 29, 2009, 01:41:35 pm
 :-LOVE :-LOVE Loved Hunting Ground! Anna is my new favorite heroine. I love how she's not magically psychologically healed from her traumatic experiences, but how she's gradually learning how to become stronger. And I love how although Charles is literally an alpha male, he's not a jerkwad one - he knows that Anna needs to take risks and that physical safety isn't paramount over psychological health.

And like others mentioned, I like how they're still feeling their way in their relationship and that the mate bond didn't magically make everything perfect. But they are safe to show each other affection and love. Both have something to offer in the relationship. And I loved how everything the hero/heroine did wasn't automatically perfect. They both messed up a few times, too.

So regarding Bran and Arthur, there was some discussion a while back about how Bran might actually have *been* Marrok, who was one of the actual King Arthur's knights who was somehow associated with wolves/was a werewolf. I admit to quickly rejecting that idea because I thought it would be just too unbelievable that Bran (and Samuel) were that old. But I totally take it back - I think it's pretty apparent that Bran knew King Arthur at this point.

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Interpreter on August 29, 2009, 05:30:17 pm
I just devoured HG. Loved the relationship between Charles and Anna. I love the respect they have for each other, how they talk through their problems and how they accept each other for who they are. Great characters! Still lots of room for the characters to grow and still be respectful of each other.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 29, 2009, 05:53:13 pm
So regarding Bran and Arthur, there was some discussion a while back about how Bran might actually have *been* Marrok, who was one of the actual King Arthur's knights who was somehow associated with wolves/was a werewolf. I admit to quickly rejecting that idea because I thought it would be just too unbelievable that Bran (and Samuel) were that old. But I totally take it back - I think it's pretty apparent that Bran knew King Arthur at this point

What if  Samuel was King Arthur?

whatever it is, Bran now has 2 of King Arthur's three legendary weapons.
Veeeery interesting plot ideas coming to mind... especially if they have a mind of their own like Mercy's walking stick...
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on August 29, 2009, 10:24:39 pm

What if  Samuel was King Arthur?

Now that is a fascinating thought! I don't see it being true but it's interesting all the same.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on August 30, 2009, 02:46:32 am
if I understand correctly Bran and Sam are Welsh, and Arthur was a Brition that whole different section of England. Sort like differance between New York State and Texas
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on August 30, 2009, 03:04:05 am
if understand correctly Bran and Sam are Welsh, and Arthur was a Brition that whole different section of England. Sort like differance between New York State and Texas

True, I forgot about the Welsh bit  9)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on August 30, 2009, 03:30:57 am
Artangel give self permission to read spoilers it won't hurt the reading of the book and really not spoil anything
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Janilee on August 30, 2009, 11:04:34 am
Historically speaking, there are antecedents of the Arthurian Legends in Wales. I once did a summer abroad in Great Britain studying Arthurian Legends. Part of the time was spent in Wales. We also went to Glastonbury, Tintagel Castle, Cadbury Castle, Stonehenge and various other sites of Arthurian repute.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: LadyErehwon on August 30, 2009, 12:18:48 pm
I have to throw in my two cents!  I loved Hunting Ground! 

I had to ask the book stockers where it was, but since Tuesday, I've read it 3 times so far.  I really like how Ms. Briggs is answering some of our questions in the books (more of the "how does that work" type), and then making us think about others.  It makes it fun to read and re-read.  Now, for the waiting again... :-\
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on August 30, 2009, 12:30:14 pm
Wolverine, you can find a lot of Anna's backstory in the short story "Alpha and Omega." I can't remember what anthology it is in, though ... help, anyone ... ?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on August 30, 2009, 12:32:14 pm
On the Prowl
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on August 30, 2009, 12:56:46 pm
RE The Athurian debate: In "Iron Kissed," Mercy discusses Arthurian legend at length and notes that she has a degree in history. Although I understand that Patty is not her characters, it wouldn't surprise me at all if she was interested in/well-versed in Athurian legend, so if Bran turned out to be an "Arthurian character," it would be interesting to see what she'd do with it.

I also love the idea that Bran may have been the "original" Marrok, a part of Arthur's court -- especially since he said he knew King Arthur. It might be a feint on his part, but if he was actually King Arthur, I'd think that he wouldn't have put it that way.

However, in comparing the two series, it struck me that both Mercy and Anna have suffered from sexual assault. While I love that Patty has not waved her magical author's wand and made it all better for them, it does surprise me a little to realize that both heroines -- and such different ones! -- in these intertwining series have suffered similar attacks. Do you think it was deliberate on Patty's part?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Artemis on August 30, 2009, 12:59:11 pm
Thank you! Yeah, you can see her back story in "Alpha and Omega" in "On the Prowl." I read "Cry Wolf" first, and sort of felt that I'd missed something, so went back and got the short story collection. (Even though I think it had a story by Sunny in it. Blech.)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 30, 2009, 05:44:57 pm
if I understand correctly Bran and Sam are Welsh, and Arthur was a Brition that whole different section of England. Sort like difference between New York State and Texas

Yeah, but to someone from Europe we're all Americans anyway. Some people even group Canadians in. If that happens now, what happens 500+ years in the future.

"Welsh? I don't like the Welsh. Let's make Arthur British."

Or.

Bran and Sam would be long lived, so they'd have to move around in order to keep people from noticing their lack of aging. a Welsh person moving to Briton and becoming King Arthur is not that far fetched, is it?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 30, 2009, 06:01:06 pm
Good point.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Lord_Raken on August 30, 2009, 07:15:06 pm
I would like to begin by expressing my absolute love of the Mercy and Alpha and Omega series. Vampires and Werewolves have been "defanged" and "declawed" by all the other vamp/wolf book riding in the wake of the twilight tsunami. Those book, while they can be entertaining just don't drive home the danger of supernatural creatures like the Briggs books. Her characters feel real and alive. They are flawed and admirable in spite of them, and endearing because of them.

I would like make one humble comment, fully aware that I am not a successful published author. (though I hope to be someday)

While reading through HG, and loving every word of it, I sometimes felt like certain points could have been made stronger. At times points of the plot, events, and character didn't seem to get the attention or description needed to solidify the event in the mind of the reader as a key event. It was all there to be picked up, it just didn't jump out and grab you.

I feel like a foolish student questioning the master here, and I ask for any misunderstanding of lack of perception on my part to be brought to my attention. Subtly in a novel is difficult to master and, even when done masterfully, may whoosh right over the heads of some readers (me). Life is rarely clear and defined, and events don't always happen right when they "should" Hunting Grounds does this amazingly. The best example is the way both Anna and Charles try to to decode and deal with their relationship. Guessing the mind of the other, sometimes getting it right... and others not. There is no moment when "all is made well" they make progress. But true development, both in character and plot, is slow, subtle, and does not always 'jump out and grab you'.

Love the books, Love the Character, can't wait for what comes next. Just putting my measly two cents out there for consideration... or as a target.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 30, 2009, 07:29:36 pm
Hi, Lord_Raken!  Not the Patty you're addressing, but I'm here, so what the heck.
We all have different things we bring to the books, and thus different things we take away from them.  And sometimes it's a matter of "I loved it the first time I read it, but didn't get _________"  And then you read it a few years later, and you sit up (or maybe heavily down), stunned by the masterful interpretation of the thing that eluded you the first time, because you didn't have the life experience to get the way it was presented the first time you read it. 
So no worries that you feel that some things were skipped over; I've even got a couple of quibbles. ;) 
And, if you read the "Ask Patty/Answered" section about "Moon Called" (as a prime example) you'll find Our Hostess admitting that she got rushed & didn't do her best (or even standard) development of character motives or the "who what where when why how" that the story really merited.  She managed to clear some of that up in "Bone Crossed", of course... Same could apply here.  Go to the Spoiler threads, use the spoiler tags, & make your concerns known.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on August 30, 2009, 07:35:24 pm
I think the earliest Arthur stories were actually Welsh. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 30, 2009, 08:26:28 pm
The only thing that really bothered me, was it introduced the vampires, made it seem like they would very important. But they weren't really. They were the foot soldiers.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 30, 2009, 08:35:30 pm
foot soldiers are people too.

I liked it.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 30, 2009, 08:52:12 pm
Yeah, but I was expecting more from them. Them being the Big Bad, or something.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 30, 2009, 08:56:11 pm
That's cause you read the chapters online before you got to the book, so you had LOT'S of time to speculate in your head.

If you had only read about them in the beginning, then read the book right away you wouldn't have had a problem (probably)  ;)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 30, 2009, 09:02:00 pm
I probably would have forgotten about them completly.  9) Because they don't make a significant appearance besides that for quite a while.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 30, 2009, 09:09:11 pm
It's a misdirection on Patty's part. Make you think the vampires are the baddies, so you don't think about who really is behind it all! Arthur and Dana who are both introduced as allies!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: primalSCREAM on August 31, 2009, 03:52:06 am
Wonder what Bran will do with those legendary items ???? 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talisman Maker on August 31, 2009, 05:33:17 am
I hate to be a spoil sport here, but I have a question...did anyone else think it was wierd for a FRESH water fae to be living in a houseboat on SALT water?  Patty even mentioned that she couldn't pull energy from salt water or something like that when Charles was in the water after the fight.  Shouldn't she be living on Lake Michigan or Lake Superior or something?  GIANT freshwater lakes.  IF you were a fae, and could live anywhere you wanted, would you choose to live where you could have the most power, or someplace that teases you, "Water, water everywhere but not a drop to drink" kind of thing. 

I think the setting for HG in Seattle was perfect and I really enjoyed the book, but if I were Nimue, I wouldn't be living on salt water.

I hate that I only mention negatives.  I'm sure that Patty had a good reason for doing what she did.  I just don't know it, and becasue of that, it seems wrong somehow.  Again, I loved the book.  I loved looking deeper into Bran, Charles, and Anna.  I loved finding out more about Omega powers.  I think Patty is really doing a good job with keeping both series in the same world, but different plot lines.  I do want them to combine someday, but that can be in the future. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on August 31, 2009, 06:33:10 am
That question never even registered in my brain   LOL
It's probably a good question for the Ask Patty section though. I'm curious to see the answer.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 31, 2009, 09:34:13 am
Probably won't find out till the next A&O book. :-'
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on August 31, 2009, 09:56:41 am
Didn't the troll say they (the fae) will send someone to pick them up ?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on August 31, 2009, 10:00:12 am
Yes he did. He said someone would be along to fetch them.He stressed very much that the someone would not be him.   :)

 I like this book!   :-LOVE


Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 31, 2009, 10:01:43 am
I am guessing the troll is not one of the iron handling fae.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talisman Maker on August 31, 2009, 10:02:00 am
didn't bran recognize them, even all covered up?  He knew what he held....Maybe he IS the "real" Marrok. hmmmmm.....
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 31, 2009, 10:03:08 am
Didn't the troll say they (the fae) will send someone to pick them up ?
they said that about the walking stick...

Wonder what Bran will do with those legendary items ???? 
especially if he or sam really is Arthur
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 31, 2009, 10:04:34 am
I think Seattle has  a lake, or a river or something... I assumed she was on a freshwater lake or river near the sea...

now that you mention it, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on August 31, 2009, 10:04:49 am
I am guessing the troll is not one of the iron handling fae.

Or he did not want to be the one to have to keep these powerful objects. There seems to be more to having powerful fae stuff than just keeping it from being stolen....
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on August 31, 2009, 10:06:57 am
Didn't the troll say they (the fae) will send someone to pick them up ?
they said that about the walking stick...

They said that about the walking stick too, yes, but the troll said: "Now I'm supposed to ask you to watch over those a little bit longer. Someone will be along to collect them later. Someone else." p. 283
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: primalSCREAM on August 31, 2009, 11:35:02 am
Yes they were told someone would pick them up....but they were never told WHEN :-LOVE! lol  looks like another story to me!  lol
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 31, 2009, 12:04:33 pm
That's good, 'cause Patty has contract for another couple of books. :-LOVE :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on August 31, 2009, 12:10:30 pm
I have this strange urge to post a great picture of a troll.  :-[

does anybody want to see this?   bOuNcY
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 31, 2009, 12:20:19 pm
YES!!

Post Troll Pic. Post it.  bOuNcY  >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on August 31, 2009, 12:21:16 pm
Second that  bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY >D bOuNcY
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on August 31, 2009, 12:31:40 pm
I am bad: I found more pics   >D

(http://users.skynet.be/fa023784/trollmoon/TrollArtistsBlog/files/page20_blog_entry0_4.jpg)
By Theodor Kittelsen
(http://users.skynet.be/fa023784/trollmoon/TrollArtistsBlog/files/page20_blog_entry0_2.jpg)
By Theodor Kittelsen

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/God_kv%C3%A4ll%2C_farbror%21_H%C3%A4lsade_pojken.jpg/574px-God_kv%C3%A4ll%2C_farbror%21_H%C3%A4lsade_pojken.jpg)
John Bauer
Arent they lovely   :-LOVE
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/John_Bauer_1915.jpg/642px-John_Bauer_1915.jpg)
John Bauer
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on August 31, 2009, 12:36:53 pm
Lovely!
Somehow I have the impression the troll from Hunting Ground is a bit scarier... Which reminds me *goes off to google 'seattle troll'* Yep, a lot like that... LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 31, 2009, 12:47:28 pm
Seattle resident here.  Seattle is bordered on the east by a freshwater lake as long as the city (around 50 miles), and linking it to Puget Sound through Lake Union; I grew up fishing in Greenlake, and Bitter Lake is a few miles north of that.  While "the numerous salt water lakes or ponds in Seattle" are mentioned in this book, we do not lack for fresh water; it is SEATTLE, well known for overcast & drizzle/rain, after all.  I'm thinking - WAG here - that Dana lived on the Sound to help disguise her magical signature.  Easy enough to pipe in all the fresh water she wanted.  You may have noticed that in her showdown with Charles that she mentioned that the elements (multiple elements!) told her that Bran wouldn't come to Seattle.
This is a very damp city, and some of it's fresh, some salt, some a mixture, as tidewater flats.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 31, 2009, 12:50:25 pm
Now, Talyn was it, who guessed he's not an iron handler?  You did read where he was sitting when we were introduced to him, weren't you?  I can assure you from personal experience that this is not a wooden bridge.  Iron/steel.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on August 31, 2009, 12:52:37 pm
King Arthur's legend has bad stuff happening to good guy.

Fae give gifts that backfire.

Coincidence?

I wouldn't want Arthur's weapons either.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on August 31, 2009, 12:53:19 pm
Now, Talyn was it, who guessed he's not an iron handler?  You did read where he was sitting when we were introduced to him, weren't you?  I can assure you from personal experience that this is not a wooden bridge.  Iron/steel.
In Norwegian folklore, trolls have no problem with iron. But they turn to stone in sunlight :)
Also they are big, they give no quarter and they will eat just about anything.
The terrifying thing is that even though they are so big, they can always fit under your bed.  :-'
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: tess_tarr on August 31, 2009, 03:52:08 pm
I got this book and read it over the weekend and just like all the other books by Patricia Briggs I loved it!! :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 31, 2009, 05:53:00 pm
Huuum, okay, if that is true, how did that one fae in IK drive a car? Is it direct contact, or can having a buffer stop the effects?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on August 31, 2009, 05:56:43 pm
Aren't some cars more aluminum then steel now?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 31, 2009, 05:58:18 pm
Huuum, that's true. he was driving a sports car actually, now that I think about it, and those are made from lighter materials then steel. Not sure then, how was he hanging out on that bridge, or are trolls a metal handling fae?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 31, 2009, 05:58:56 pm
Gloves, clothes, upholstery, paneling, aluminum, fiberglass.  Or one of the iron handlers.

Remember the SERRAted edge books by Mercedes Lackey.  They worked on lots of aluminum in cars so fae could handle them.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 31, 2009, 06:04:20 pm
One thing she didn't mention, even in downtown where most of the action happens, there are plenty of fallen leaves on the ground, and running in that is slithery.  There could have been more of that in there, with the running here & there, a bit of slither on decaying leaves.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 31, 2009, 06:27:36 pm
Didn't the book events occur in December? Shouldn't all the leaves be gone by then? ???
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on August 31, 2009, 06:37:57 pm
Not while I've lived here.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on August 31, 2009, 06:39:06 pm
Huh, you learn something new every day. I had trouble picturing leaves, cause in Calgary in December, everything is brown or white. Either were buried in snow or the grass is dead with no leaves.

Okay, back on topic...

Seattle doesn't get snow in December?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: caerali on September 01, 2009, 03:36:15 am
It was a Porshe, which are still made of steel.  He mentioned something about many layers of paint.  I'd have to find the page reference -- but we're derailed from HG :)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talisman Maker on September 01, 2009, 05:06:37 am
sorry, as one who lives on the other side of the continent, I have no idea what Seattle is like.  I just assumed that she was in a houseboat on the sound, which would be salt water. 

I still stand by my thought that if I was a very powerful water fae, the last place I would live would be next to a salt water ocean.  I would choose one of the great lakes, or a reservour, or some other large body of fresh water.  meh.  It's Patty's character, she can live wherever she wants...it just struck me funny is all.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 01, 2009, 06:35:47 am
Seattle has a rough - very rough - hourglass shape.  Puget Sound salt water on the right (west), Lake Union through roughly the middle, and Lake Washington bordering the entire eastern side.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 01, 2009, 09:27:37 am
Well, was he wearing that same jacket he gave them at the end? If he had that, and pants between his bum and the bridge maybe it wouldn't affect him? Is it direct contact with iron that hurts fae or just proximity?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Cerulean on September 01, 2009, 09:37:30 am
Yes they were told someone would pick them up....but they were never told WHEN :-LOVE! lol  looks like another story to me!  lol

Yes - me likes that idea!

I had a thought that - if this were the case - that it would be the perfect time to introduce the two storylines some, since Mercy does know her history :) But then I remembered that Patty said she would keep the two series separate? No Mercy/Anna crossover. Did I make that up?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talisman Maker on September 01, 2009, 09:40:22 am
I don't think she's planning it.  Since they are actually about 6 months to a year off, it would be really hard to meet up the way she has it right now.  I would love to see Anna through Mercy's eyes tho.  And vice versa. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on September 01, 2009, 11:12:17 am
I just went through Anna's meeting with the Italian Omega, did anybody else wonder if his backstory is meant to remind of the Ötzi affair?

In case you don' know what I'm talking about (not sure how much of that is known outside of Europe):
Ötzi is a mumified body they found in the Alps in a border region and Austria and Italy had a quarrel over possession rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi_the_Iceman

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Janilee on September 01, 2009, 11:16:50 am
I had the same thought when reading that scene at 3 a.m. today. LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on September 01, 2009, 11:46:39 am
 LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 01, 2009, 03:08:36 pm
So, how rare are Omegas? Are there only two in the entire world at this point? Ric and Anna?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 01, 2009, 03:12:05 pm
I think she left it pretty open for them to be rare, but with the possibility of still encountering more.  Nobody specifically said they were the only two Omegas.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on September 01, 2009, 04:06:43 pm
I think they're very rare in the werewolf populations. There's probably lots more humans with the power though.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 01, 2009, 04:56:17 pm
Ric (I'd love to see him come to Aspen Springs to learn from Asil with Anna) is specifically mentioned as having been fought over by the Germans & Italians, & along as a "rub their noses in it" to the Germans by the Italians; that doesn't mean that there aren't French, Russian, Czech, Hungarian, etc., Asian, African, South American, Australian Omegas, but none of them came along for whatever reason.  I suspect there are under 24 Omega werewolves in the world, but there are probably 2-10 times as many potential/unchanged proto-Omegas in the world.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: charmed on September 01, 2009, 05:43:34 pm
Curiousity question: Am I the only one who got a good laugh over Angus's nickname for Anna? I was lmao, I hope it sticks  LOL LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 01, 2009, 05:52:29 pm
She & Charles were both pretty annoyed over it.  I was amused, but not to the lmao level.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 01, 2009, 05:57:20 pm
Charles wasn't too annoyed to twit her about it.  Remember the "rabbits like sex" comment?  LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: charmed on September 01, 2009, 05:59:11 pm
Yep, that had me cracking up. He's a lot funnier than we see in the Mercy books.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: katy on September 01, 2009, 06:10:22 pm
 LOL LOL  OK, so maybe I'm just giddy with tiredness, but the term "proto-Omega" really made me giggle.  Something about the greek prefix stuck onto a greek letter.  Since Psi comes just before Omega, maybe these are Psis.

(Sorry, like I said, giddy...)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on September 01, 2009, 06:46:09 pm
Oooh, I like your logical thinking!!!

Psis. Like poor Sunny.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on September 02, 2009, 12:15:56 am
LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on September 02, 2009, 12:47:15 am
So, how rare are Omegas? Are there only two in the entire world at this point? Ric and Anna?

Charles said in either Cry Wolf or the prequel that he'd only ever met 2 Omegas.  Since Omegas are hard for other wolves to attack, they're probably running around somewhere.

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on September 02, 2009, 12:49:56 am
Curiousity question: Am I the only one who got a good laugh over Angus's nickname for Anna? I was lmao, I hope it sticks  LOL LOL

The whole were-rabbit conversation cracked me up.  One of my favorite scenes. 

I also laughed when Charles and Anna have just landed, and the wolf expresses surprise that charles has mated, and he says in a deadpan voice "Shocking, isn't it?"

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on September 02, 2009, 12:59:00 am
sorry, as one who lives on the other side of the continent, I have no idea what Seattle is like.  I just assumed that she was in a houseboat on the sound, which would be salt water. 

I still stand by my thought that if I was a very powerful water fae, the last place I would live would be next to a salt water ocean.  I would choose one of the great lakes, or a reservour, or some other large body of fresh water.  meh.  It's Patty's character, she can live wherever she wants...it just struck me funny is all.

A lot of people think the northern midwest (Great Lakes country) is like this barren strip of Antartica where it stays -50 for 9 months a year.  I'm in Fargo, maybe 4 hours west of Lake Superior, and I see that attitude a lot.  Maybe Dana feels that way too? 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 02, 2009, 06:20:32 am
The entire rabbit conversation had me chuckling. Other things I liked, Charles letting Anna make her own decisions. Is it just me, or is he not as much of a control freak, as say Adam is?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 02, 2009, 06:21:47 am
Not at all.  Of course, he's a lot older and wiser.  ;D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on September 02, 2009, 06:28:25 am
I think, Charles knows how much damage he could do if he tried to control Anna. Mercy is more than able to fight back if Adam goes too far. Anna, not so much. At least not yet...
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 02, 2009, 06:32:54 am
I think you're right, lacrima, but I also think Talyn's right, and that Charles is less of a control freak than Adam by nature. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on September 02, 2009, 06:38:07 am
There's a duality.  The desire to be a control freak is there, to lock Anna up in Aspen Creek, keep her out of harm's way.  To not let her run the hunt.  Maybe that is Brother Wolf?

Then there's the desire to let her try different things, even if they are dangerous, to make decisions and an mistakes and deal with the consequences. 

So, there might be some control freak tendencies but they're controlled, tempered by age and wisdom.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 02, 2009, 06:43:55 am
Yeah, that is not so much wanting to control, I would think, as to keep her safe. He was completely fine with her being with him at the conference until the danger to her appeared. So, that is not as much control freak to me, as just a natural reaction to someone he cares about being in danger.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Omega 303 on September 02, 2009, 08:28:57 am
I don't think it was so much of her being in danger...It was her uneasiness that left all the Alphas wanting to fight each other in order to  protect her. That why Charles sent her with Tom and his mate. Not because he feared she was in danger
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on September 02, 2009, 08:37:41 am
Here are the scenes I was thinking of when I talked about charles' duality - his desire to lock her away and keep her safe.  Of course, he doesn't give in to that desire, which is good, because he has a strong enough personality that he could overwhelm Anna.  But it's still there.

He had no desire to go out and do the social thing at the best of times—and this attack made him want to take his mate and barricade her in where she was safe.

If he locked her to his side, he would lose her. She was not submissive, she didn’t need his care. Not that way. She needed him to stand back and let her fly.  And if he was going to do that, he was going to have to get control of his temper. Of Brother Wolf’s temper. Not just now, today—but forever. Leash his need to keep her safe so that he could keep her happy.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 02, 2009, 09:48:49 am
But a lot of that was born out of his fear for her.  Chastel had threatened her, and the vampires had attacked her.  Even without the wolf, a new husband might have many of these same thoughts about protecting his wife.  The wolf makes it more intense, yes, but that's not a need to control her, that's a need to protect her, and understandable in and of itself.  He's wise enough to know it won't work. 

But that's not wanting to control her.  And he's wise enough to realize that if he does go and protect her so comprehensively that he will be controlling her, and that's not what either of them (or their wolves) wants or needs.  So instead, he does the incredibly hard thing of allowing her to be at risk, which makes him suffer/worry more, all so that she can find her own strengths and make her long recovery from what was done to her.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 02, 2009, 06:07:35 pm
Maybe it's the difference between a "DOMINANT" and an "ALPHA"?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 02, 2009, 06:11:22 pm
I don't think so.  I think it's a difference of personality, and age, and even the relationship with the wolf.  I think that if Bran were in the same situation he'd do much the same (I could be wrong, of course), and he's the Alpha of Alphas in these stories. 

I think Adam is just more Type A than Charles by nature.  But then, Mercy's so very different from Anna, so it all works.   :)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 02, 2009, 07:37:18 pm
I would agree with you Ellyll, just different personalities. I am just remembering back from the Mercy books how she said that Dominant wolves are control freaks, and alphas are the most dominant of all. So I would expect Charles, who is VERY dominant to be very controlling, but he isn't. I think he may be as much of a anomaly as Anna is.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 02, 2009, 07:50:45 pm
I'm thinking of him, more dominant than any Alpha in the room, but still having some issues with them BECAUSE he wasn't an alpha.  But maybe I'm talking through my hat.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 02, 2009, 07:56:15 pm
Not sure about that. Maybe it's because a Alpha can call on the strength of his pack to back him up?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 02, 2009, 08:02:41 pm
Well, even doing that, none of them could completely stand up to Charles.
And that's not really what I am talking about at the moment.
I'm thinking in terms of "Charles is dominant but not Alpha, maybe that's at least part of the reason his control freak behavior is not as pronounced with Anna, as much as he wants to protect her, as those of an actual Alpha would be."  He can step back just that tiny bit & recognize, in spite of being off balance from the new bond with Anna, and recognize that he can best protect her by giving her the space and encouragement to learn to do a lot of it herself, not cripple her further by doing it all himself.  He doesn't have to be THE biggest & baddest, because he's dominant, not alpha; nobody's going to take it to mean he can't control HIS pack; he hasn't got one.

Does that make any sense?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Zealith on September 02, 2009, 08:08:46 pm
Not only do I think it makes sense, but I agree.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 02, 2009, 08:14:18 pm
*faints*
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on September 02, 2009, 08:43:19 pm
So, what Patti's saying is not every dominant wolf wants to  be an Alpha.

Like Warren. He just wants to belong to the pack. He's happy leaving Adam and Darryl in charge and coming in 3rd.

Other people are more Alpha. they want the responsibility.

Ummmm... to summarize

Some Dominants want responsibility for everything and everyone (Alpha). Some don't. (Asil, CHarles, Warren, etc)

Samuel seems to fit the Alpha idea, yet he has no pack seperate from his fathers. Perhaps that is part of his problem?
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 02, 2009, 08:56:01 pm
You could take that question to a Samuel thread; since he's not in HG, it doesn't belong here.
I'm also saying that Charles does not have to be always and absolutely in control the way that an Alpha does, because he won't be challenged for control of a pack; he hasn't got one.  He could have, because he's dominant enough, and like any dominant wolf, he does have to prove his strength, but because he's not Alpha, he can prove it through allowing Anna to risk herself to gain her strength.  And yes, some dominants do have the strength, without the desire, to control everything.  Some can take it or leave it.  I could well be wrong, but I think Asil has been an alpha before, but tired of it and ceded control to some other wolf.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on September 03, 2009, 01:26:56 am
Not being challenged for the pack yes, but if I understand the dynamics, somebody could challenge him for his place in the pack?

Maybe the alpha or dominant difference is a difference of will and wishes: when you reach a certain power level it becomes a question of wether you want the hassle and politics of being in charge of a pack.
I am sort of swinging between this explanation and the one where the alphas have something more to them than just being more dominant.
See, and now I started wondering if there is any difference at all and that dominance is more a question of level of power and alpha is just the label for the one who is at the top of the scale. 

Goes off to argue with herself.....   9)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 03, 2009, 06:19:58 am
Okay, well, we have other threads on the subject of dominance, we can discuss that there, leave this for Hunting Ground specific issues.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 03, 2009, 06:46:28 am
*faints*

 LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 03, 2009, 07:05:26 am
Anyway, back to HG discussion... :P

How did Bran make the mistake with Dana? He thought he was giving her a gift, she took it as a taunt/insult. What happened there? We all know Bran isn't infallible, but he is usually pretty good with stuff as important as that.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on September 03, 2009, 08:37:17 am
I think that's one of those things where there was no telling.  The fae can be touchy in the worst way, at least in many of the stories.  She knew that it was intended as a gift, but she elected to take it as an insult.  I have to wonder, too, how much of her being insulted was because it gave her a reason to betray Bran and Charles. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Talyn on September 03, 2009, 09:21:28 am
Oh, sort of a self rationalization? She was really desperate for Excalibur. But, I think it was she took it as a insult right off the bat. Her reaction to it was too strong to be planned out.

How did Charles (I think it was Charles) put it? Keeping on the Fae's good side is a very intricate and difficult dance? I think this issue proves that statement very quickly.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Cerulean on September 03, 2009, 10:35:18 am
Anyway, back to HG discussion... :P

How did Bran make the mistake with Dana? He thought he was giving her a gift, she took it as a taunt/insult. What happened there? We all know Bran isn't infallible, but he is usually pretty good with stuff as important as that.

Exactly - I asked that same question somewhere else, I think. It's astonishing how Bran could be SO wrong. He thought it was the best of possible gifts, but it was the worst.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on September 03, 2009, 10:37:11 am
for Bran, A reminder of the past is not painful.

Apparently, for Dana it is.

Bran was reminding her of when she was powerful.

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on September 03, 2009, 12:43:40 pm
for Bran, A reminder of the past is not painful.
Apparently, for Dana it is.
Bran was reminding her of when she was powerful.

Exactly!  The werewolves deal with their long lives by living in the present.   Those who dwell too much on what time has taken from them go crazy . . . which has something to do with the "old wolf" syndrome.  The fae carry their past with them.  For some it's a source of power, for others it's a painful reminder of what used to be.   Some deal with it well, some go crazy . .. .

Bran is pretty smart, but not infallible.  Dana is not a close friend, and he misjudged how she'd take a reminder of an almost-forgotten past.   We had something similar happen many years ago.  When our son was a toddler we were shopping in the mall, when suddenly this older lady burst into tears.  Turns out our son was the spitting image of her long-dead child.  She'd had thirty years to get over it, and thought she had, until she saw Collin.   :-'   Bran goofed -- and Dana went a little crazy. 

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: cavaliergirl on September 03, 2009, 03:50:42 pm
Are we sure that reminders of the past aren't painful for Bran?  He largely won't talk about it.  We know from Cry Wolf he occasionally has nightmares about the people he's killed and used to have nightmares about his dead mother.  He disassociates himself from humans for the most part - not using their names, keeping a distance from most of them - because he's seen too many deaths.  He seems to care more about Blue Jay woman 200 years after her death than he does for Leah.  

A reminder of being held captive by his mother witch called up a beserker in him and he nearly killed Charles and if Anna's omega qualities hadn't soothed him, would have infected every werewolf in the country with madness and caused thousands of deaths.  That doesn't sound like a person free of pain.

A reminder of what she lost, a beloved home, called up a kind of insanity or madness in Dana.  Not the beserker quality, but enough that she would break what seems to be the most sacred rule of the fae and risk death and the wild hunt to seek her revenge.  

Dana and Bran aren't that dissimilar.  Not that a painting of a lost home would make Bran flip, but being held captive by a witch would bring up bad enough memories to make him flip.  They both have that dangerous edge brought on by age, they just have different tipping points.

Of course, Bran couldn't have known what her tipping point would be.  
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Observant on September 03, 2009, 05:23:23 pm
I loved it. I mean really, how can we not love Patty's books?  :-LOVE

After dwellin' on it for a day or two, I feel a couple of things.

I kind of get why the other wolves are scared of Charles but because we know him to be a good man and haven't seen him REALLY have to be brutal with someone who walked the line between deserving to die and not deserving to die, I'm only taking Patty's word for it that he's scary. He doesn't really scare me. I ramble a little............. :-[

I agree with your assessment of Charles.  I really enjoyed the book, but it was hard to get a sense that Charles was as scary as the other wolves reacting to him made him out to be.  Maybe if he had been confronted by the family of someone he had to kill (who felt their loved one didn't deserve to die) it would have made his threat to other wolves more real.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 03, 2009, 05:31:37 pm
I suspect some of them have been present when he's done executioner duty before now.  WE HAVEN'T, so we don't feel it.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Morgaine0000 on September 03, 2009, 10:39:14 pm
A lot of the fae seem to be like loose cannons.  Extremely powerful and anything or nothing is likely to set them off.   There was no way Bran could have predicted - give her gift that may insult her.  Or insult her by not giving her a gift.    The surprising thing is that he dealt with her at all.      He should have held a telecon  :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on September 04, 2009, 03:30:27 am
Curiousity question: Am I the only one who got a good laugh over Angus's nickname for Anna? I was lmao, I hope it sticks  LOL LOL
Yeah loved that, almost a Monty Python moment there given the end of the book (and what they are ultimately fought over), and now I wonder if Chastel at any point taunted his attackers with "It's just a flesh wound." ;D

I also loved the exchange between Anna and Charles about his Tee's, gave red shirting a whole new meaning. LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: BigMama on September 04, 2009, 04:13:52 pm
I have to admit, I am not a reader who analyses the nuances of whether or not the fae would really live near salt water! What I did find in Hunting Ground was another excellent character study that gave me a terrific picture of two people as they are growing together and learning to support one another with love and committment. To me the beauty of Patty's work is that they are so character driven--you feel these folks are alive and you care about them. I especially like that I get to feel the relationship from both perspectives.  Hunting Ground was another home run, IMO.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: BigMama on September 04, 2009, 04:47:29 pm
Not to get back to the dominance question, but I don't think Charles' letting Anna "try her wings" actually has anything to do with him being less dominant. IMO, it is mostly to do with his knowledge of her being forced to submit to the will of the alphas in her previous pack. In the scene on the dock, when Charles is thrown open for a moment, Anna sees inside of him and sees his love for her and his fear that she will one day see him as the killer he feels himself to be and that she will reject him. He fears that if he doesn't give her space to be free, that he will be subjecting her to the type of terrible treatment that she had come to expect from dominant wolves in the past. Anna, for her part, sees his heart, and the love Charles has for her there, and realizes what a precious and fragile gift she holds. This is a pivotal scene in their relationship and one of my favorites in the book. Anna understands at last just how much Charles loves and yearns for her care. It is after this, IMO, that she becomes much more proactive in her demonstration of her love and protection for him as well.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: white_unicorn on September 04, 2009, 11:06:08 pm
Okay, in some books, at some points i do stop and think "what the heck? didn't go the other way already?" On Mrs Briggs' books though...  :-whistle I just don't really care all that much... (it helps that when one of the characters is for example hurt on the foot in the beginning it doesn't change to being hurt on the arm at the end of it (I'll write something on it in another post)

But I assumed it was a water faery.... it wouldn't matter what kind of water it was as long as it was water....


PS  bOuNcY the end was so.... unpredictable I loved it all, i loved the growing of the characters, the 'doubts' Anna still fights with, the vulnerability Charles shows... even the Seattle Alpha was a real favorite to me.. and... did I imagine reading of Adam? I can't wait for Anna and Mercy to meet even for a small paragraph... >D

Thanks for the terrific job mrs Briggs... ahem... can we have a bit more soon? O)
(trying to joke with it but.... :-[)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Avarel on September 05, 2009, 12:23:27 pm
She sees the uberwolf has vulnerabilities and she is allowed access to them.  :-LOVE
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Temari on September 06, 2009, 04:38:50 am
I loved the book, enjoyed every bit of it. Wandering around smiling for days.  :) :)

My only niggle was that as far as I could see there was only 1 possible person among the wolves who could be behind the troubles - the mystery villian is always someone you know in a good book, and we only learn about 3 wolves in detail and of those, 2 are almost immediately ruled out. It didn't spoil the book as it was still very, very readable, and the reasons for causing trouble and some of the other twists I hadn't guessed, but it would have been good to have had at least 1 other possible villian option.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 06, 2009, 10:09:56 am
Seattle doesn't get snow in December?

Not a lot, and not often.  But as either Mr. or Mrs. Briggs can tell you from their research trip here last winter, we did have snow then.  It seldom lasts more than a few hours, and when it does, the whole area tends to go ape, as though there had been a major, 3/4 meter fall. 
What our weather is like most of the winter is an extended autumn, so we have leaves falling for about 6 months, and while in downtown they're cleaned by crews paid by probably merchant associations as well as the city for keeping it clear for business & tourists, the outer neighborhoods, Greenwood, Ballard, University District, Queen Anne, Georgetown, South Park, West Seattle, Crown Hill, etc., etc. don't have that.  So Anna running down from the U. District condo along the Burke-Gilman Trail, would have very likely been slithering on wet & decaying leaves. that's where that niggle came from.  Oh, and between hills & sidewalks that have been buckled by tree roots, the footing is very bumpy.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: white_unicorn on September 06, 2009, 12:46:53 pm
i loved that book, it's like... all the years of writing honed mrs Briggs' skills to bring forth quite a masterpiece...

I love Charles, it's more than the characters being almost alive, it's... that feeling that if that character was alive you could actually fall in love with them... it's something I do not get from Adam or Sam...
it may be because Mercy is the narrator and we don't get that much of an insight to Adam and Sam... but I do feel that with Charles i could fall in love...

Also the cover made perfect sense with the story, Charles' wolf was out of control in most of the book and Anna was trying to calm him...

The nickname had me laughing out loud and I did cry in some of the scenes... the dialogue on the bed, the doubts of Anna the "Do you ever regret it" scene had me crying (well it could be the fever i had at he time but it was also the emotion in those words)

all in all, Charles didn't decide to be less dominant, but to give Anna the freedom to do her own things, her own mistakes, all of his instincts tell him to protec her but he knows that too much protection can become an almost worse torture than the one she had been in... so, he conciously decides to give her space, time, opportunities to decide for herself what she wants to do.... and that is, for such a dominant wolf, almost as difficult as allowing someone under his protection to be harmed...

I think subconciously I knew who the werewolf behind the attacks was when Sunny was killed, but I didn't want to believe it was him, i kept thinking it was someone we hadn't met yet. however the ending twist really caught me by surprise and I was thinking "What the Heck???"

To end this message and go to sleep though I just want to say, again, Thank You for the great book and I really cannot wait for the 3rd book of the series and the next Mercy book...
Sometimes you think you have seen the best of someone and then you get something like this book and... you just need more...

PS I do not say this last to stress you, I know you will write your best, It just surprises me how much more Hunting Ground seems to me than the previous books, and I guess you do know how good the other books are.... but i feel like this one is at the top at the moment...

Again thank you for sharing such great stories with us... take care of yourself and your family and finally, goodnight from your greek fan
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 06, 2009, 12:55:49 pm
Lovely post, White_Unicorn!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Wolf Girl on September 10, 2009, 05:28:16 pm
Dude, peoples don't read a book with a kitten, she will just tear the pages up...
Hunting Ground was sooo good, but I don't know... it felt as if something was off with Charles and Anna. But other then that, I liked it better then Cry Wolf.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Demi on September 13, 2009, 04:09:34 am
i loved that book, it's like... all the years of writing honed mrs Briggs' skills to bring forth quite a masterpiece...

I love Charles, it's more than the characters being almost alive, it's... that feeling that if that character was alive you could actually fall in love with them... it's something I do not get from Adam or Sam...
it may be because Mercy is the narrator and we don't get that much of an insight to Adam and Sam... but I do feel that with Charles i could fall in love...

Also the cover made perfect sense with the story, Charles' wolf was out of control in most of the book and Anna was trying to calm him...

The nickname had me laughing out loud and I did cry in some of the scenes... the dialogue on the bed, the doubts of Anna the "Do you ever regret it" scene had me crying (well it could be the fever i had at he time but it was also the emotion in those words)

all in all, Charles didn't decide to be less dominant, but to give Anna the freedom to do her own things, her own mistakes, all of his instincts tell him to protec her but he knows that too much protection can become an almost worse torture than the one she had been in... so, he conciously decides to give her space, time, opportunities to decide for herself what she wants to do.... and that is, for such a dominant wolf, almost as difficult as allowing someone under his protection to be harmed...

I think subconciously I knew who the werewolf behind the attacks was when Sunny was killed, but I didn't want to believe it was him, i kept thinking it was someone we hadn't met yet. however the ending twist really caught me by surprise and I was thinking "What the Heck???"

To end this message and go to sleep though I just want to say, again, Thank You for the great book and I really cannot wait for the 3rd book of the series and the next Mercy book...
Sometimes you think you have seen the best of someone and then you get something like this book and... you just need more...

PS I do not say this last to stress you, I know you will write your best, It just surprises me how much more Hunting Ground seems to me than the previous books, and I guess you do know how good the other books are.... but i feel like this one is at the top at the moment...

Again thank you for sharing such great stories with us... take care of yourself and your family and finally, goodnight from your greek fan

Thank you for writing this so eloquently. It is what i think too, but i could not write it like you.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: white_unicorn on September 14, 2009, 01:36:14 am
 :-[ just my late night ramblings and a great book... nothing anyone wouldn't be able to write, some of you (meaning all the other Hurog members) would actually write it even better.... O)

 O)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Demi on September 14, 2009, 02:17:29 am

If english were my native language i would have give it a try,
but it is so much easier for me to read than to write.  :)

Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ravenlark on September 14, 2009, 07:01:30 am
I liked this novel better than the first Alpha and Omega novel.   

Expanding on Charles and Anna's relationship, lots of general werewolfyness, and of course, the fae element kept me glued to the pages until the end.

I love werewolves and it seems that alot of the novels I read about them almost skirt the subject.  The character stays human until the full moon and there is maybe one paragraph about them as a wolf, they don't use their wolf senses properly etc...

but I have to say that Patty hits it right on the nose with this one, I love reading about werewolves, who love being werewolves!!

Keep it up!!  bOuNcY
   
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Tearadria on September 18, 2009, 10:47:13 am
Wow, loved this book. Love all the books I have read by Patty so far!

Hunting Ground was an excellent read and I love how she mixed history into this book and has further developed Anna. In the first book, Cry Wolf, I honestly wasn't a big fan of Anna..now that I've read this book I absolutely love her ; )

I also love how she adds just a touch of romance to the story...not too much to over power the story and not too little as were its boring and just a mystery/thriller.

Awesome Job Patricia Briggs. Thanks so much for letting us read your stories and enter your world of the supernatural! Looking forward for the next book in the Mercy series!
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: kingken on September 21, 2009, 09:08:47 pm
 :D This was a fantastic read makes you think hard about the relationship between Anna and Charles. Im waiting for my cookies to bake and then going to jump into it for the 2nd time  :-LOVE
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Lilith Kahila on September 26, 2009, 11:26:53 pm
Ahh, I spent the day finishing Hunting Ground.  I've had it for a little while, but life kept happening and I couldn't get a minute to read. Just to let y'all  know, I call dibs on Charles should he ever become available and um, if I am ever available. :-[  Brother would be okay, too.
All kidding aside, this book is a great companion to the 1st one.  I liked reading more about the European wolves.  I remember reading some books a long time ago, about wolves being a problem in some countries, Russia comes to mind for some reason.
I'm rambling, oh no!  Thanks Patricia for giving me such good books to read.  I hope for many more!
Also, I went to Books A Million, the closest book store to me and it's 70 miles away, hoping to find Hunting Ground.  The "help desk" person said it wasn't due for release until Sept and I don't really believe them sometimes.  I looked the whole store over and finally found it behind the 2 small rows of new and notable books. It was on a cardboard bookholder with several other books that in no way meshed with HG.  I made sure to show the help guy that he was in fact wrong. Grr.

Lilith
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: deadfrog on September 30, 2009, 06:48:40 pm
for Bran, A reminder of the past is not painful.

Apparently, for Dana it is.

Bran was reminding her of when she was powerful.



It was not only a reminder of her past, and past power.

When Charles and Anna visit her the first time, she is trying to recreate a painting by a famous Flemish artist (sorry, I've forgotten the name), and failing. I was under the impression that she spent considerable time and effort in creating a copy that induces the same deep emotions in its viewers that the original painting did. Anna recognized the painter's technique immediately but was at a loss to what the artist intended to express. Dana expressed resignation that she is not talented in this area. Yet she keeps on trying, so this must be important to her.

And then Charles hands over Bran's gift, a painting by an artist who captured the very soul of the lake she lost even though he never saw the place himself. Bran's gift held everything that she was unsuccessfully striving for in her own work. So Bran not only brings up past memories but also makes her present efforts look pathetic by comparison.

I think this unintentional combination had a much more powerful effect on her than either component would have had on its own.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 30, 2009, 06:51:51 pm
That's an excellent analysis!  That and the fact that this much loved place is now gone, and irretrievable.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Cerulean on September 30, 2009, 08:12:39 pm
for Bran, A reminder of the past is not painful.

Apparently, for Dana it is.

Bran was reminding her of when she was powerful.



It was not only a reminder of her past, and past power.

When Charles and Anna visit her the first time, she is trying to recreate a painting by a famous Flemish artist (sorry, I've forgotten the name), and failing. I was under the impression that she spent considerable time and effort in creating a copy that induces the same deep emotions in its viewers that the original painting did. Anna recognized the painter's technique immediately but was at a loss to what the artist intended to express. Dana expressed resignation that she is not talented in this area. Yet she keeps on trying, so this must be important to her.

And then Charles hands over Bran's gift, a painting by an artist who captured the very soul of the lake she lost even though he never saw the place himself. Bran's gift held everything that she was unsuccessfully striving for in her own work. So Bran not only brings up past memories but also makes her present efforts look pathetic by comparison.

I think this unintentional combination had a much more powerful effect on her than either component would have had on its own.

Great analysis! I really see that more clearly now. Thanks! I had been struggling some with this, but I think you nailed it.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: wiccanmoonchild on October 01, 2009, 12:09:55 pm
Loved it!   Just finished the second read -  :-LOVE
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: emmad on October 05, 2009, 11:14:06 am
Loved this.  Only problem is once you've finished and put it down I was kinda looking around going okay what's next?  I want the next book NOW!!

Sigh now have to wait ;)

Oh and loved the cover.  Purple is my favourite colour hehe
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Dante on October 06, 2009, 12:42:07 pm
I read Cry Wolf and Hunting Ground before I read any of the Mercy Thompson series and loved the A&O far more than the MT (so far...i'm halfway through Blood Bound.) Sad that there wont be a new A&O book next year but the comic of Cry Wolf comes out Nov 3 so that'll be cool.

I loved Hunting Ground I hope it comes out in comic form aswell i'd love o see the art.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: b. hart on November 07, 2009, 09:07:27 pm
I just finished Hunting Ground and I did not want it to end!! It was very bittersweet to finish it because I knew the wait for the next issue will be looong; which is ok.

I loved getting to know the characters; mainly Anna and Charles, better and their relationship/bond.  I also enjoyed learning more about the Omega werewolf. A very interesting turn on the werewolf.

And can I just say that I love reading about werewolfs more than vampires. And Patricia does it so well in her novels. And I feel so connected with Anna [not about the fact that she was abused by her pack] but how modest she is.  As for Charles, he is just amazing. I love his character, tall, dark, brooding and handsome. Yum. Haha.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: BigMama on November 08, 2009, 02:33:06 pm
This series has become very quickly my favorite.  The glimpses we get into Charles as he struggles with the love he feels for Anna and his desperate hope that she can love all of him, and the reciprocal feelings that she has as she realizes that she holds his heart in her hands--just terrific writing.  Their story has caught my imagination as nothing else has in a long time.  I REALLY am sorry we will have to wait so long for the sequel.  I will simply have to build a few stories in my own imagination and read the books again for the upteenth time.  ;)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: BigMama on November 08, 2009, 03:11:58 pm
Another point that really strikes me about this excellent book after so many rereads is Patty's really brilliant contrast of the characters of Arthur and Charles.  The one who selfishly sacrifices the woman he professes to love and rationalizes that he does it because she would hate to grow old; and the other who unselfishly sacrifices his own comfort and will to give the woman he loves all that she needs to grow and heal from the horrors of her past.  It is the glimpses we get into the hearts of these similar but very different men that show so much about Patty's great gift as a story teller, IMO. 
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: deadfrog on November 11, 2009, 02:29:03 pm
I especially liked that we get more hints what people (other than closest family) see when looking at Charles.

We get Ric's view ("Your mate decided my Italian buddies and the Germans would settle a bit better without my presence. Though he didn't say precisely that. I believe the total of his words were 'Omega. Go.' Angus decided he meant here."). And we get Sunny's view of both Charles and Anna.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: lacrima on November 12, 2009, 03:11:34 pm
"Your mate decided my Italian buddies and the Germans would settle a bit better without my presence. Though he didn't say precisely that. I believe the total of his words were 'Omega. Go.' Angus decided he meant here."

I loved that. It just shows that being less dominant doesn't mean having no backbone or own mind. Angus had to obey the order, but he was the one who decided how he did that.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: charmed on November 12, 2009, 03:53:16 pm
Yeah, I really liked Angus's and Ric's interpretation of Charles's laconic statement. A neat way to show us the thinking of several different characters.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: uninspired on November 13, 2009, 11:26:15 am
I finished Hunting Ground last night and I absolutely loved it! Cry wolf was the first book I read of Mrs. Briggs and it was amazing (I am up to date with the Mercy series as well)! I really enjoy the depth and history her characters have. Thank you for creating amazing stories and keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: WinterWolf915 on February 11, 2010, 02:04:06 pm
Cry Wolf was the First of hers i read as well, but have not had the chance to meet Mercy. Hunting Ground definitely left me wanting more, aka, staring at the last page wondering if it was trully the last page and if not where were the others hiding? I think I went through it a couple times before it was lost in the host(also awesome book) of others books I have, Amazing read, waiting anxiously for more ;)
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: jdarbs on March 04, 2010, 08:04:20 pm
Just reread this today. So much love all over again. Such a wonderful book the second time over again. I appreciate Anna and Charles' relationship so much more after reading this book again.
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: TechWolf on April 28, 2010, 09:48:21 am
I’m still reading my copy (a little more than halfway through), but it’s definitely getting good. One thing I like about Patricia’s books is that they make references to things in real life.

In this book, it mentions that Anna was watching South Park on TV, and it even mentions which episode she was watching. I really love when she does that in her books, making references to things in real life. :D
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on August 15, 2010, 06:56:11 am
That and the part where they both love each other, but are unsure about themselves.  :( But the insecurities make the book more believable. :P
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Ganne on September 30, 2010, 10:19:41 am
So, has this been discussed elsewhere and I've missed it?  (I don't read forums that regularly).... but no one seems to have speculated about whether Charles is now alpha of the British wolves since Charles killed Arthur (the alpha of all packs in Britain).  Somehow I think this issue will need to be dealt with in future books, particularly since I cant see him wanting that role.

Ganne
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on September 30, 2010, 10:24:35 am
Oh.  My.  Gosh... that's true, isn't it?  LOL
Title: Re: Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on October 21, 2010, 10:54:47 am
It's doutful, Ganne. Since the Mercy books are in the same world, but ahead a few months/years and there has been no mention of Charles taking that role.
Title: Hunting ground thoughts; Charles and the Finns
Post by: Minilie on January 25, 2011, 05:34:40 pm
hey!
its just a thing thats buggs me a little bit. I was reading Hunting ground and in one chapter Charles is talking to some wolfs from Finland but they don't know english (or dont whant to talk it) so they talk to a Norwigan wolf that know finnish and spanish that then talk to a spanish wolf that talk English to Charles. Its just weird in my eyes as a Swed, cuz in the Nordic countries we talk and understand English really good and why go to America and this big meeting and not speak English? and it feels weird that someone that knows two extra languages as Finnish and Spanish don't know english, cuz that the language thats first learned in school as a new language. And in the North we are always in contact with English in some way.

well I can go on about this, haha...so I stopp here. are there more then me that thought about that? or just me?

-Mini
Title: Re: Hunting ground thoughts; Charles and the Finns
Post by: Patti L. on January 25, 2011, 05:39:20 pm
We're pretty sure that it was a negotiating tactic, Minile.  It gave everyone time to think, look at each other's body language (important to werewolves) and read each others' scents.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: MrsPearce84 on April 04, 2012, 02:41:05 am
Ok I know this thread has been dormant for a while.....

But having read through the books AGAIN  :P It seems to me that the general belief is that Sunny was killed on Arthur's orders. Sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought it was an act carried out by the vampires alone. It was an "eye for an eye" type scenario.

quote: "My employer failed me - and so I no longer have to follow his so-explicit instructions. My friends are sad, and a little play will make them feel so much better." HG pg 170.

I get this to mean Arthur had specifically said Sunny was "off limits" but the vampires lost one of there own in the fight with Anna, Moira & Tom, thereby Arthur would lose "one of his".
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on April 04, 2012, 03:22:27 am
As I read it, I thought that Arthur had ordered her killed but killed quickly with no pain and because he failed them, they made her suffer before they killed her.  He intended her to die then so that he wouldn't have to live with the pain of watching her die slowly to old age.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on April 04, 2012, 05:42:41 am
I read it more like you catchmeifyoucan, he had ordered her killed quickly and painlessly to avoid the pain of her growing old, but also in order to replace her with Anna, as he believed she was Guinevere to his Arthur.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 04, 2012, 07:51:15 am
Also my impression was that Arthur had ordered her 'mercy killing' to be a multiple use happening, but quick and painless.  Then when Anna, Moira, and Tom inflicted such losses on them, the vampire 'hit squad' decided to play with Sunny to make up for losing their previous fight and the destruction of whatever number of their group.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: MrsPearce84 on April 08, 2012, 03:56:02 am
 :o that does make more sense  :P  my husband had the same thoughts as you all  :-LOVE. 

Maybe it's my not wanting to think of it that way  :-' a man having his love killed just to replace her (even if it does happen)
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on November 20, 2012, 11:57:42 am
So, has this been discussed elsewhere and I've missed it?  (I don't read forums that regularly).... but no one seems to have speculated about whether Charles is now alpha of the British wolves since Charles killed Arthur (the alpha of all packs in Britain).  Somehow I think this issue will need to be dealt with in future books, particularly since I cant see him wanting that role.

Ganne

Going back to this, and the lack of any indication in "Fair Game" that Charles is the Master of the Isles, the "British Marrok"; I'd say that it was not considered a dominance fight, but a different matter altogether.

We haven't seen, but my impression is that the British didn't really feel the need to have an "uber Alpha" or "Marrok", so they may not have bothered to reinstate the position and fill it.

What do you lot think?
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on November 20, 2012, 01:18:41 pm
That makes sense to me.  I think that Arthur more or less held that position so that the British packs would be united against Chastel.  With him out of the picture, I don't think they would perceive the need for a leader of all the packs.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on November 20, 2012, 05:50:27 pm
I thought the whole thing was Arthur's idea, and Chastel just didn't care about Britain.  Arthur wanted power.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on November 23, 2012, 03:51:18 am
I didn't take it like that.  I thought that the only reason Chastel hadn't moved yet on Britain was because of Arthur but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on November 23, 2012, 08:38:43 am
Arthur wasn't that strong an Alpha.  I'd be willing to bet money that some of the Alphas Chastel already took out (including the original European 'uber-alpha' were stronger than Arthur.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: catchmeifyoucan on November 24, 2012, 04:03:42 am
I am just doing a quick skim through Hunting Ground and found some interesting quotes...

Charles says Arthur is "Master of the Isles - the British equivalent of the Marrok."

Arthur Madden, Master of the Isles was the closest equivalent to the Marrok that Chastel had allowed in Europe - mostly because Chastel didn't consider the British Isles to be a threat to him.

Isaac says "Arthur is perceived as Charles's strongest supporter: the only one of us far enough from the Beast to risk displeasing him."

It sort of sounds to me like Arthur was able to unite the packs of Britain and stand against Chastel but primarily because it was Britain is far enough away from Europe that he didn't consider the unified packs to be a threat or a place he wanted to conquer.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on November 24, 2012, 05:50:19 am
Perhaps Chastel, being an arrogant french did not want Britain?

I always had the impression from Hunting Ground that Arthur had made himself the top dog in Britain and that there wasn't anybody in that position before he took it.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on November 24, 2012, 07:29:49 am
That's what I thought, Varg.  Also, that he couldn't have had it if he hadn't resorted to assassination; he's not that strong an Alpha.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on November 24, 2012, 07:56:51 am
Yes, that was what I understood too.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Cerulean on December 11, 2012, 07:48:07 pm
So, has this been discussed elsewhere and I've missed it?  (I don't read forums that regularly).... but no one seems to have speculated about whether Charles is now alpha of the British wolves since Charles killed Arthur (the alpha of all packs in Britain).  Somehow I think this issue will need to be dealt with in future books, particularly since I cant see him wanting that role.

Ganne

Going back to this, and the lack of any indication in "Fair Game" that Charles is the Master of the Isles, the "British Marrok"; I'd say that it was not considered a dominance fight, but a different matter altogether.

We haven't seen, but my impression is that the British didn't really feel the need to have an "uber Alpha" or "Marrok", so they may not have bothered to reinstate the position and fill it.

What do you lot think?

That makes sense to me, Patti. It would be an extreme deviation for Patty to have to make Charles the "Marrok" for Great Britain. So there should be some rationale as to why Charles and Anna would not be required to move to the UK.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on December 12, 2012, 08:08:28 am
There were also hints that perhaps there were stronger alphas than Arthur in Britain and that Arthur kept his position by way of trickery and cheating.
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on December 12, 2012, 11:00:39 am
Hints my fat white hinney. LOL
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Varg on December 12, 2012, 11:03:07 am
Ok, it was pretty much spelled out as fact LOL
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 05, 2018, 05:27:02 pm
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article208056904.html

Suppose Angus got his the same place?
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: pondhawk on April 06, 2018, 05:05:52 am
Cool article!
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 05, 2020, 06:14:50 pm
Friendless Churches    @friendschurches

The Welsh have a word for the unattainable yearning you feel for a place that no longer exists, or to which you can never return.

*Hiraeth* is a homesickness you feel when home is years ago and far away, if it ever existed at all.


What Dana felt on seeing the painting from Bran, I guess...
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: pondhawk on July 06, 2020, 09:34:01 am
 :)
Title: Re: [A&O #2] Hunting Ground Discussion
Post by: BillG on July 07, 2020, 02:43:20 am
Ayuh; she should have remembered Thomas Wolfe's "You Can't Go Home Again." As an aside, since the book was published posthumously, could the words be deemed immortal? Meanwhile, the back of my head is playing Eric Bogle's "Going Back To Dublin."