The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Mercy Thompson | A&O Books Board => The Weres => Published Books => Topic started by: Stephanie02 on June 09, 2009, 05:56:25 am

Title: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: Stephanie02 on June 09, 2009, 05:56:25 am
Ok, so I know some authors don't want to be deemed as "trashy romance novelists" or whatever youd like to call it and if I were a writer I wouldn't necessarily want to just do the typical Harlequin deal of having a certain number of explicitly (if not raunchy) sexy scenes added to my book just so they sell, but let's face it... Men like watching porn and women like reading it and even thrive on a little bit of romance and a certain amount of trash... at least in casual and fun (non-pulitzer prize winning) books they choose.  I certainly wouldn't expect trash to be in the books that I read that are intended to be more of an intense and thought provoking read... but can I be honest and just say that this series will never produce one of those kinds of books? 

So, after four books in the Mercy Thompson series I can't help but feel that I'm left high and dry.  I know I know this is intended to be a mystery and possibly even a lore based fiction novel but for goodness sake... toss me a bone (no pun intended).  Even the sex described in the last book left much to be desired (given she was a recovering rape-victim at the time and tenderness and discretion were admittedly a must for this particular scene).  Quite possibly there will be more in books to come but at the moment, I'm starting to feel like maybe Ms. Briggs isnt really all that comfortable writing intimate moments.  I have really felt like there has been all this build up and all this sexual tension in the books like a balloon blown up to the point of rupture, but then when it gets down to it - to the part that many of us are screaming for - I feel like someone just let go of the balloon leaving me with a raspberry sound rather than the satisfying pop that I was expecting.  If I was off base to expect more "oomph" I'm sorry and I'll seek my trash elsewhere - lol.  There are plenty of books with it there but I just felt that Mercy and Adam's relationship deserved better "kiss and tell" telling. 

I won't stop reading the series - the lore is fascinating with some creative liberty taken that I always enjoy and the story lines are good with interesting character development.  I just feel like it would be better and more satisfying if there was a little less tentativeness in describing the intimacies.  After all, there really isn't anything tentative about any of the other scenes in the book.


ETA: Title modified. Elle
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Carradee on June 09, 2009, 08:28:09 am
let's face it... Men like watching porn and women like reading it

That may be true for you, but I (and most of my friends) don't fall into your categories.  "Trashy" scenes can drive me from a series unless I'm immensely fond of it, and even then, I'll skip the scenes.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Gerd D. on June 09, 2009, 08:33:56 am
I must admit that I'm quite on the opposite here:
I love the fact that in a field and time in which practically every other author is giving us sexscenes of minute detail she rather chose to go with a moment of a tender erotic nature and I do hope that she keeps to that level. I wouldn't stop reading either if she did feel compelled to delve into more detailed descriptions of doing the dirty but I would probably lament the waste of space. :-\

I guess there's just something very primal about violence that lends it to scenes of a more descriptive nature, where as I see sex as something very personal that loses it's erotic nature the more detailed one gets about it.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Stephanie02 on June 09, 2009, 08:45:53 am
As I said in the last sentence of my post - everything else in the book isn't tentative - why should this be?  I don't want to read new and creative words for genitalia or even go so far as to take pages and pages of the book describing encounter after encounter... but it lacked the heat that was promised through build up over the first 3 books.

I also said that if I wouldn't expect it of intellectual and thought provoking reads - but this series is intended for a light and easy read and I just thought that the lack of passion was out of sync.  We waited 3 books for Adam and Mercy to get together... and I'm still waiting for more of an actual resolution to this thread in the books.

Also, I shy away from Harlequin books and the like that can be purchased for $6.00 in the grocery check out line, however, I have read books with intense romantic encounters that I wouldn't consider "trashy" but were still satisfying.  Charlaine Harris and Janet Evanovich are both masters at this - not trashy and thereby corny, but descriptive without losing eroticism.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: charmed on June 09, 2009, 08:51:12 am
Quote
and I'm still waiting for more of an actual resolution to this thread in the books.

Then it's a good thing there are 3 more books in the series. :D It'd be shame if Patty tied everythign up before the series was ended, then what woudl she write about? ;D
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Stephanie02 on June 09, 2009, 08:53:27 am
Just three?  :-[  How sad...
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Gerd D. on June 09, 2009, 09:10:51 am
Charlaine Harris and Janet Evanovich are both masters at this - not trashy and thereby corny, but descriptive without losing eroticism.
So far I only read ony short by Harris and nothing by Evanovich, but I did kind kind of get the impression that at least Harris's character is defining herself much more over her sexuality (or in case of the story in question over her lack of any sexual encounters worth speaking of for quite some time), than Mercy does in the books, so it would seem to me to be more in sync with those to include more described 'hot' encounters.
I wonder if it would flow as well with Mercy and if it would actually add anything to the series.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: CarolKat on June 09, 2009, 05:50:28 pm
I think Patty handle the first sexual encounter between Mercy and Adam just right.  she's still recuperating after the rape. the healing process Adam gave and then the "getting down to business" was right for the tone of series.
If anyone feels Patty cannot write these scenes correctly maybe they haven't read "Cry Wolf" of the Alpha and Omega series, frankly she did an excellent job there.

Also, please remember the age groups Patty is reaching out to with this series, you can have sensual without going overboard. Also perhaps more of this should wait since Adam and Mercy while mated are not yet engaged or married.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Zealith on June 09, 2009, 08:07:41 pm
I loved the scenes in these books. One of the things I love about Patty's writing is that she CAN write romance without being explicit. Graphic sex doesn't bother me as much as it use to, but I enjoy passing on books I liked to my sister, who really HATES explicit scenes. *shrug* It all comes down to taste, and there will always be some one shouting not enough, or too much!
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on June 09, 2009, 09:23:41 pm
Well, I'm going to throw my 2 cents worth in now, after letting the initial question stew for a while, and a few other posts to help clarify the issue & my thoughts about it.


The sex scenes in the main, Mercy, series may be 'tentative', especially if compared against the work of others in the same field.

Um.  I don't know about any one else, but I would be tentative after I'd been raped, and I sure hope someone who considered me a life mate, moving into that position with me after that traumatic event, would also be careful, edging into it that way.

Let's look at the definition of the word.  "Tentative:  based on or consisting in trial or experiment made or done provisionally; experimental; empirical.
"Tentative: an essay; a trial, an experiment."


So yeah, it works for me!
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Artemis on July 23, 2009, 09:14:41 am
I think it's a really interesting question, but I LIKE the "lack" of sex in the books. I was burnt out on "sex-overkill" with another UF author whose work I liked at first, but then started adding more and more sex until I was left wondering where the plot had gone.

I don't mind sex scenes, but I prefer them to be erotic rather than graphic, and I want them to do something for the story. I just kinda go "wha ... ?" when one is thrown in there randomly.

Besides that, Mercy is usually dealing with some serious issues in the books, so it's no wonder that her mind isn't on sex! Although, I could see sex being part of the plot if it were to relieve some of the tension the characters are under or as a simple reaction to surviving another threat to their lives or even "this might be the last time we touch one another" sex.

That said, I'm satisifed with the amount/descriptiveness of the sex in the Mercy books, although I know my opinion isn't shared by everyone.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Ellyll on July 23, 2009, 09:41:51 am
It's shared by me, at least.  :) 
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 23, 2009, 09:53:22 am
Me, too. I think the way sex is presented in this series is one of its plenty advantages.
And for a fact I know that my fiancee wouldn't like the books so much, if there'd be as much sex as say in the Sookie Stackhouse novels.

Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Lakritz on July 23, 2009, 10:24:59 am
I'm with Artemis, Ellyll and Pfefferminztee on this issue!
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Has on July 23, 2009, 10:31:06 am
I'll def add my name from the above.

And I think I know this sounds trite but the love scene was more about healing and helping Mercy getting back on track. The whole tone suggested that - she has been shattered physically and emotionally and its rebuilding herself and being stronger and Adam is definitely a part of that.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: IvyBRT on July 23, 2009, 10:42:20 am
I started the reading Mrs. Briggs books because they are clean. I really don't miss or need the sex in her books. She has been able to keep many of us entertained with her stories with out the need of graphic/explicit sex. If I want to read a book with more sexual details then I just simply choose a book/series by a different author.
 :D
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: primalSCREAM on July 24, 2009, 03:57:23 am
I totally agree with you guys...sometimes the sexual tension is more exciting than being sexually explicit. I also get really put off by the use of gutteral street terms in describing sex....not my thing...that's why I like Patty's books...she still gets the sexual tension across without the vulgarity.... :D
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Midangel on July 24, 2009, 05:48:07 am
You see, I love sex scenes when they are done extremely well. It can be gentle, without going into description; it can be raw, hot steamy sex where it matches the passion inside of the characters or it can be erotic going into the kinky side that suits the tone of the book. I enjoy all of these type of scenes in books.

But, in this instance with Mercy and Adam after the rape, while I was wanting more description, I can understand why the scene played out that way. :)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 24, 2009, 06:05:31 am
I have to admit, somehow I can't imagine Mercy as the steamy sexy one in the femme fatale kind of way. I don't think she is that kind of woman.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Midangel on July 24, 2009, 06:54:23 am
Oh I agree. I wouldn't want to see those type of scenes in the Mercy books. :)

What I'm trying to say is that, I equally enjoy those type of sex scenes in other books... oh dear, I'm afraid I'm not explaining this very well. I'll keep quiet now.  :-[  LOL
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Has on July 24, 2009, 07:08:02 am
Nope I totally understand what you are saying :D

I also think like Mid and the other said that the tone of the scene would have been wrong if it was all hot and heavy. But I'd say that Adam and Mercy can generate heat- the massage scene in BB and the shower scene in IK was filled with sexual tension. ;D
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 24, 2009, 07:09:52 am
Oh, of course, they are hot, but it is a different hotness than say, Jeaniene Frost.

Title: Re: Sex
Post by: charmed on July 24, 2009, 09:08:27 am
You see, I love sex scenes when they are done extremely well. It can be gentle, without going into description; it can be raw, hot steamy sex where it matches the passion inside of the characters or it can be erotic going into the kinky side that suits the tone of the book. I enjoy all of these type of scenes in books.

I agree. I enjoy all varieties, as long as they are well done. Patty has established that her books will not have steamy, graphic sex scenes and I'm ok with that. I have other authors for those.  :D ;D
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: white_unicorn on July 24, 2009, 09:22:15 am
I agree with you guys...

1st, it's the whole "after-rape" and the very 1st time for them.
2nd, I am starting to think that too much details just spoil it... It may be what i read lately but I prefer less details and more feeling in what I love reading....
3rd, from what I have rea of Mrs Briggs... I just can't see her writing in as many details as some oter writers, and I am quite glad about that.

If you read Cry Wolf you will see that in different stories different approaches are required...

So, yeah, I do like reading some sex scenes with a lot of passion and steam... but sometimes it's better to have as few details as possible....  >D O)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Zealith on July 24, 2009, 10:08:50 pm
I admit I enjoy the leave it up to the readers imagination approach.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on July 24, 2009, 10:44:49 pm
Funny that the tactic works so well for both horror and sex.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Nifty on August 28, 2009, 07:23:16 pm
Oh I agree. I wouldn't want to see those type of scenes in the Mercy books. :)

Okay, I'll confess:  Every once in a while I like to try to imagine an Adam-and-Mercy sex scene as written by Lora Leigh.   >D  Works for me!!  Ha!

But on the whole I think Patty has done the Adam-and-Mercy scenes really, really well.  I think she's great at capturing the draw and pull between them...all that sexual tension and frustration and flirtation.  And in Bone Crossed (and Iron Kissed), she captured the tenderness of their emotional connection.  There's tremendous mutual respect and trust and caring between those two characters, and I think Patty's done an excellent job of showing that to the readers.  I also think that the reserve with which Patty writes those scenes -- meaning that she doesn't sit like a fly-on-the-wall and relate every move they make -- is in keeping with the characterization of Mercy and Adam themselves.  It's not that either one is particularly shy or modest, but it seems to me that they ARE private.

Title: Re: Sex
Post by: littlebittysami on August 30, 2009, 12:37:01 pm
You know, not everyone wants over descriptive and at most times painfully florid sex scenes in books. I read these books because of that. I stopped reading MaryJanice Davidson because of her characters being annoying as well as her overtly boring sex scenes. I don't need to know where tab A goes,  I have a perfectly good imagination for such things. Seriously if this bothers you so much Stephanie, then you just might not be reading the right series. 

I'll echo the others here in saying that considering the rape and Mercy's recovery, I think Patty hit the right note in telling but not showing us the sex between Adam and Mercy. 
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Mike Briggs on August 30, 2009, 12:51:44 pm
I think that Patty will probably continue to soft-peddle the sex scenes.   I know she's tried to write explicit scenes a couple of times, but hasn't been pleased with the result.  Some authors do pretty well with the thirty-page graphic depiction of the act, with all the proper adjectives and euphemisms.  It doesn't seem to work for Patty.

Part of the problem, I think, is that real love doesn't depend on gymnastics or perfect physical proportions.  By putting too much emphasis on the physical details, authors often diminish the mental/emotional aspects.  Making love is beautiful, but it can also be undignified and rather silly.  I'm not saying Patty will never put a hot, explicit scene in a book (after all, that's her decision to make), but I think she's happier with a discrete "fade to black" or less detailed coverage.



Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on August 30, 2009, 12:53:53 pm
I think that the consensus here is that we prefer her approach.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Artemis on August 30, 2009, 01:06:07 pm
Seconding, Patti L. I think that anyone who reads these books knows not to expect a graphic sex scene, and if they like those sorts of things, there are a lot of other authors who provide them. People like a lot of different things, and there's a book out there for just about every taste.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: berryblu on August 30, 2009, 03:26:53 pm
 :-LOVE  I love both types of books.   ;)  You don't have to like only one of them.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on August 30, 2009, 03:30:53 pm
Right, you just want to have them clearly defined, so you know what you're getting in the first place.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: berryblu on August 30, 2009, 03:47:05 pm
 :)  Not really.  Sometimes it is not possible to include that info.  Giving the ending of Iron Kissed away on the back blurb or elsewhere would have spoiled the events for me.  Rape is not a general theme of the Mercy Thompson series and was unexpected, IMO.  However, the urban fantasy genre does consist of very dark themes and I feel that anyone not wanting to read such shouldn't pick these books up.  That seems to be different to me from placing warnings on books.  I would not want to see that.  Everyone is just fine with blood and gore, but put in some rape or sex of some kind and a few people go bonkers, IMO.  The communities written about in many urban fantasy novels are based on might makes right.  To me sex just understood to be one method of control, a very accurate RL one, too.  I just know that Patricia Briggs isn't as explicit as some other authors, but even the amount in her books is over the edge for others.   9)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: nottled on August 30, 2009, 03:58:46 pm
Well, I do like both. It's sad that often where you have good writing you can't have the other descriptive sex scenes.  I find that I have to give up one to have the other. There are a few that have both but not too many.

The fact is that I find the characters in these books extremely sexy and if the sex scenes could be more graphic and keep Patty's signature style, I'd eat it up and lick my fingers afterward! LOL

That being said, I would hate to see Patty write in a way that she's not comfortable with simply to appease the wants and needs of her voracious readers! It would diminish the art and that simply will not do.

I can take those boys into my own head and nobody will be the wiser. >D
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Has on August 30, 2009, 06:33:21 pm
What nottled said :D

But on one point about sex scenes- there can be well written ones and it can convey real emotions and meaning as well. Just because its sexy doesnt mean its useless but again it depends on the strength of the author and half of the time tension is just as important that the doing the horizontal tango. THAT is missing in a lot of books. But that is an important point about violence and gore Berryblu, I find that is more disturbing and upsetting if its not done right than a meh sex scene.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Midangel on August 31, 2009, 04:06:31 am
What you three said above. :P Couldn't have put it better.

That is what confuzzles me also, berryblu and Has. Why is violence and gore acceptable in books for most people, but when sex scenes come into it, it seems to be derived as tawdry or trashy?

I'm speaking in general terms.  ;)

Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Gerd D. on August 31, 2009, 04:17:00 am
Well, give me blood and gore and flying body parts over descriptions of sex any day. :)

But let's face it, IMO most of the time you have a better chance of finding a scene with blood and violence in it that is bloody violent, than a sex scene that is sexy...
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Carradee on August 31, 2009, 07:33:13 am
I'm with Gerd D., for a different reason.  I'm waiting for marriage, so sex scenes make me uncomfortable.  I don't want that much detail.  I don't want to know or be thinking about that, at this point.

I think the flippant, casual "Oh, look how fun this is!" tone might be much of what turns me off, because that also disturbs me when applied to violence.  (The detail that my parents flipped about the Anna and Charles scene in Cry Wolf and called it "provocative" likely also contributes to my discomfort.)

Also, sex is personal and special and (theoretically) private, unlike violence.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Zealith on August 31, 2009, 02:47:18 pm
I'm with you Carradee.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Morgaine0000 on September 01, 2009, 06:53:10 pm
I am fine with graphic sex scenes or not.. whichever the author thinks make sense.   I think the problem with the sex scenes in some non-Patricia  urban fantasy is that they are extremely creepy because they border on (or are completely) nonconsensual - and all the characters seem to think that is ok.  I don't see that happening in the Mercy or Anna books, so I am happy either way.   
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: white_unicorn on September 05, 2009, 01:08:26 am
well, I don't really mind on the blood and gore descriptions... or the adult, consensual, love-induced (is that even correct? or do i write the opposite of what i mean? :-[) anyway, if the 2 (or more) characters are adults that know what they are doing (and i do not have to read every little detail) i am fine with it... it's mostly on the part where hormones get the upper hand and the logic and feeling of the character is left behind...  now that! (together with rape scenes and the like) when written too graphically will not endear the books and writers to me...

(i hope i make sense and you understand what i mean)... O)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Artemis on September 05, 2009, 10:39:41 am
My feeling on sex and violence in books is that I prefer for it to be there for a reason -- to move the story along, show us something new about a character, etc. Not just where the author says, "oh, the pace is lagging a little here, I'll shoehorn in some sex/violence to keep the readers entertained."

One of the reason that I love Patty's books is that because she never does that.

All that being said, I am more comfortable with explicit violence than sex. I don't know why.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on September 05, 2009, 10:56:25 am
It's what we've been trained to.
For those who grew up on the Christian Bible, Cain killing Abel was bad, but not as bad as the eating from the tree of knowledge & becoming ashamed of nudity, and leading onward from there to sex.  As I understand the arguments.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Dani on September 06, 2009, 10:42:58 am
I agree with most of the posters here as well, I think Patty did an excellent job of writing that scene. While I do agree that it is a little vague, it seemed a bit in keeping with the tone of the situation to my mind; simply because these books are written from Mercy's view. While yes, our heroine is usually the ballsy in your face type, on this particular topic she's completely out of her element. There's no way she's completely over what Tim did to her, and remember, some part of her feels that what happened is partially her fault and that she betrayed the pack and especially Adam. This scene is an integral part of her healing process and I attributed the vagueness as Mercy kind of being shy about talking about it. We know it happened, but we don't really need to know all the details and her shame and fear about past events and getting over them.

As for the violence, most people wouldn't have too much of a problem talking about how they trashed the high school bully who was picking on somebody to teach em a lesson, but be honest, most of us don't go around sharing stories of our sex lives with everyone.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Lakritz on September 07, 2009, 09:32:24 am
I do think the reason, why a lot more people have problems with explicit sex scenes than with explicit violence, is that even a well written sex scene can be deeply embarassing or even disgusting (because the techniques, or the shape/size/colour/whatever of the body parts described turn you off completely) - and it's supoposed to make you feel good! You want to identify with the people in the book and get some of thier excitement and "positive vibes" to rub off onto you - but what if they suddenly do things, you personally wouldn't? And how boring, if they just do what "everybody does"? And I (overweight, visibly middle-aged, short legged, not into sports) surely have given up trying to identify with the bodily action of young slender heroines, with legs two miles long and "rosy nipples on small but perfectly shaped breasts"!

With violent scenes, most of us don't want to identify too closely with the acting personae - so it doesn't matter that much, if what they are doing matches our imagination of violence. And most of us don't have that much experience with sword fights, wholsale slaughter, torturing etc. that we would find all the wrong descriptions in a mediocre scene - we buy a lot more crap in that line of writing, than in the sex scenes... where most of us have at least some experience and can judge that some of the things described are just not anatomically possible! Violence is supposed to bring on the adrenaline and after that the relief - funny enough that often works, even in badly written scenes.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: thebeadedchihuahua on September 07, 2009, 06:20:43 pm
I liked the fact that I could leave the sex scene to my own imagination. I could see and feel the emotion between Adam and Mercy. It felt genuine and not based on libido.

I also like the fact that I can allow my daughter to read these when she becomes a teen and not worry about her reading a detailed sex scene. I have read many young adult novels that go into detail about sex.

Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on September 07, 2009, 06:30:58 pm
Yes, it's as I think I said somewhere else, TBC, funny how the bare suggestion works so well both for sex & for horror.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: paige on October 04, 2009, 02:15:32 pm
Im okay with how she wrote it this time. I think it was appropriate after the rape and everything. But I do hope that she will go into a little more detail in future books:)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Linnea on October 11, 2009, 09:45:49 pm
I do see what the original poster meant about the scene being overly tentative, unlike the rest of the writing.  It's one thing for the characters to be tentative in their actions, and another thing to read a scene and suddenly feel the author's discomfort and tentativeness...Not that I was ever expecting erotica from Mrs. Briggs, but in the scene with Tim, I didn't even realize he was having sex with her at first, it happened so vaguely.  It wasn't until the description of playing back the security video that I got the hint, then I had to go back and reread the scene.  Something as terrible and immediate as rape shouldn't be that vague.  I don't think that a person going through such a horrible experience gets the relief of experiencing it though a fuzzy filter.

~Linnea
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Carradee on October 12, 2009, 03:13:24 am
in the scene with Tim, I didn't even realize he was having sex with her at first, it happened so vaguely.

...I caught on fine.  :/
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Ellyll on October 12, 2009, 07:53:43 am
I don't know, it was pretty clear to me on the first read.   :-\
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: IvyBRT on October 12, 2009, 01:51:50 pm
Since I was not expecting it, it was not clear to me when I was reading it. When I caught on I was like "What just happened here?" so I re-read some of it. :-\
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on October 12, 2009, 01:55:19 pm
Shows you how old & cynical I am; I expected Tim to do that to her, so I figured that's what it was right away.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: CarolKat on October 12, 2009, 02:09:02 pm
I caught on right away as well so it must be the old and cynical, I saw it coming before they even left Tim's house.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: IvyBRT on October 12, 2009, 02:14:24 pm
I knew that he was going to do something bad... I was just not expecting it to be rape. I just never thought that Mrs. Briggs would put that in there since the previous books that I had read were sex free books LOL
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: CarolKat on October 12, 2009, 02:19:40 pm
Yes but the evil surrounding him was so intense and the fact that she didn't want anything but friendship & her knowledge of the artifacts he had really pushed him over the edge. remember the scene in his bedroom at the house?  If it hadn't been for his greed in wanting the walking stick I think it would have happened then.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: IvyBRT on October 12, 2009, 02:59:41 pm
Yes but the evil surrounding him was so intense and the fact that she didn't want anything but friendship & her knowledge of the artifacts he had really pushed him over the edge. remember the scene in his bedroom at the house?  If it hadn't been for his greed in wanting the walking stick I think it would have happened then.

Good point... I did not see it then  ;)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Has on October 13, 2009, 03:23:01 am
I agree about the house and the car ( the parts leading up to the rape was very clear) and in a way the walking stick saved her life again in the sense Tim was after it- I think the scene in the Pizza place and then later on during the meeting I think Tim planned to rape Mercy to get back at her because of slight on his pride.
That kiss she shared with Sam was pretty much the turning point I think and dont forget he had the charisma ring so he probably thought he would have had a chance to gain  a woman's attention so he thought he was irristable.

I think description during the rape was fitting because Mercy was out of it because of the fae drink affects and as well as the fact that she was being attacked and she was in shock.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Nifty on October 13, 2009, 08:48:15 am
Shows you how old & cynical I am; I expected Tim to do that to her, so I figured that's what it was right away.

I NEVER know these things ahead of time.  I don't think it means I'm not old and cynical.  More like...I'm just obtuse.  But honestly, I don't have a "strategic" brain.  It's why I can't play chess and am lousy at most card games.  (When we play card games at home with my family, they always fight to sit on my left because I only play for myself and tend to "feed" cards to the person on my left without thinking about it.  There's always a lot of table talk with the other players reminding me that the person on my left is collecting certain cards.  I'm horribly, horribly obtuse.)  When I read a book, I'm only focused on the moment...I can't ever imagine "ahead" to consider what someone might do. 
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Zealith on October 13, 2009, 11:47:04 am
Same here, at least when I'm reading books or watching movies. I live in the moment with those. In games I'm a little better with anticipation.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Nurslings on November 14, 2009, 01:32:59 pm
I was OK with how Adam and Mercy got together in this book.  I felt it was appropriate.  I enjoy the sexual tension between them much more than I would like to read graphically, in exacting detail what happens between them.  Since Adam is so chivalrous, and wanted to wait for Marriage/Mating Ritual, and Mercy was recently raped, I'm glad that Patty wrote it the way she did.

That being said... a little bit more detail in future books would be welcome  :-whistle
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on March 04, 2010, 12:13:02 pm
I'm just re-reading Blood Bound, and came across the point where Mercy finally gets her shower after Stefan gets her back home from the first confrontation with Littleton, and she specifically says there "Littleton hadn't raped me, but he'd violated my body just the same."  So that's another bit of damage layered under what Tim did to her in Iron Kissed, and reinforced by/with what The Monster did to her in Bone Crossed.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Pendle on March 04, 2010, 12:32:35 pm
Yeah, she was badly beaten then. Her world's tough.

Other aspects from her life like her abandonment issues, as well as the rape, could have increased the severity of her panic attacks. And who knows what Blackwood did to her in BC.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Kate on March 04, 2010, 12:39:46 pm
Which makes her "epiphany" in the front seat of the SUV with Adam and the other members of the pack even more powerful. She acknowledges all she's gone through and decides to work on letting it go. (I don't think it's ever that easy... but once you decide to let it go, you can start working on it!)
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Pendle on March 04, 2010, 02:12:19 pm
It's the initial acknowledgement of emotional wounds that's the most important. Otherwise your stuck in a rut, which is where Samuel is at.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: script_ed on March 13, 2010, 02:11:06 pm
So, after four books in the Mercy Thompson series I can't help but feel that I'm left high and dry.  I know I know this is intended to be a mystery and possibly even a lore based fiction novel but for goodness sake... toss me a bone (no pun intended).  Even the sex described in the last book left much to be desired (given she was a recovering rape-victim at the time and tenderness and discretion were admittedly a must for this particular scene).  Quite possibly there will be more in books to come but at the moment, I'm starting to feel like maybe Ms. Briggs isnt really all that comfortable writing intimate moments.

I actually felt the same way, until I read A&O, then I realized that she isn't hesitant on writing the sex scenes. Their scenes are not as descriptive or prolonged as some other romance authors, but definitely more than what Adam and Mercy were written as having. So, I concluded from absolutely no canon that it must have been a character/plot consistency decision. And I lean towards character being Mercy was in a place of healing, which is what Adam was offering, so she focused that scene on the healing aspect. I wouldn't be surprised if in future books we have a more steamy encounter. I am not sure though, because my portent devices can be a bit finicky.

As to what others were posting: Although given the right character and plot line I do enjoy some of the sex scenes, usually I can not stand reading just romance novels...there has to be some threat of death or violence or paranormal for me to enjoy a book, meaning sex isn't the integral point. However, I do love anticipation- in music, books, movies, what-have-you, a few more scenes of Adam and Mercy playing were-karate in the garage would be enough to satisfy me.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: vlntflwr on March 15, 2010, 06:06:37 am
Finally someone who agrees with Steph!  What's with all the ragging on the comment?  I see both sides of the coin here. The first encounter, although 'tentative', was about healing for Mercy, but there was little to make me feel like this scene inspired healing or passion.  The scene does fall along with the 'here and now' of Mercy and Adam's relationship.  They couldn't afford to be hot and heavy just yet, so I'm hoping that in Silver Borne we'll see more between the two.  I find it's more about the bond, and not about the physical between the two of them. Which is fine and dandy, but Mercy and Adam deserrve a little more.

As for sex in novels in general...what harm is there if the story is good, the plot is awesome, and you're just as eager for the the characters to hook up as you are about cracking the case before the characters.  Ex: Law & Order SVU: Olivia and Elliot, Buffy and Angel, House and Cuddy, Bones and Booth, Clark and Lois etc. (I know it's silly but am I right)   
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: Patti L. on March 15, 2010, 08:21:36 am
I'm perfectly happy to have the sex off camera.  It's like they used to say, don't put your best wares in the window; put second best, tantalize the customer into the store.  Yes, we're "inside the store" when we read the book, but sex is like horror in this; what happens in the reader/viewer's mind is going to be better/worse by a quantum amount than what we can put on the page/screen.

After all, Mercy was - under coercion - "in love with" Tim when he raped her, and that's been recorded, it could theoretically be described in great detail, maybe even from multiple angles.  And since she was "in love with him", it should be tender, right?

Does that happen?

No.

It's scarier/creepier for NOT being detailed, and I am more pleased than not for having it so.
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: script_ed on March 15, 2010, 11:03:09 am
I'm perfectly happy to have the sex off camera.  It's like they used to say, don't put your best wares in the window

lol, I've never heard that saying before, but I like it. I especially agree with it regarding other variants of media, such as hot coffees on video games. Movies especially so, since I sat down to watch a harmless action flick with my younger siblings and ended up having to turn off the TV during a sporadic steamy scene, which, I in turn, had to profusely apologize to my parents about why I introduced such material to them in the first place. There's nothing wrong with alluding to the sexual encounter. And there is, as in life, a fine line between erotically tasteful and just plain raunchy, which is usually a matter of perception. So, I would recommend reading A&O as well, and if you don't feel as though the sexual tension is as you would like it there, I wouldn't expect anything more lasciviously written in the Mercy series.

[Regarding Tim&Mercy] It's scarier/creepier for NOT being detailed, and I am more pleased than not for having it so.

I think it's a great indicator for how great a writer she is, because she doesn't need to be verbose about her explanations. The tonality and character descriptions are written such that the reader understands in a few paragraphs what happened, why it happened, how all involved feel about it, and the reader develops their own personal emotional reaction to those events without a never-ending explanation that lasts for pages, she continues on the story line. The concept of Mercy in her coyote form and submitting to Ben was enough for the reader to empathize with her at that moment, or when the writing pans to Adam's reactions to watching the tape, not what was actually on the tape, is more telling of what violation Mercy underwent. I think it's easier to write: a as it happens to b and than c occurs here, but it's a much better story when you learn about d and e and how it relates to the beginning of events- a. So, anyways, I agree with the Tim scene it was tastefully written leaving just enough -ick factor to empathize with the characters, but not enough for me to be disgusted and unable to ingest anymore- such as Precious, have you tried reading that?

To vlntflower: Agreed, no harm with the sex scenes, reading is a personal experience and as long as it's not a prolonged play-by-play and has a central story- a real story with an abundance of character development, close calls, and paranormals- well, then I'm a happy little reader, but then again some may consider me a closet lech, just on this side of tasteful walking that thin line.  ;D


Title: Re: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: HavParker on October 28, 2010, 09:49:54 pm
I don't know if its been said yet, but it worth pointing out that the series is narrated by Mercy and she may chose not to reveal everything to you. Only what she wants you to know. And as for the rape scene, I think she's mostly blocked that out. She probably couldn't describe it fully to anyone.

When writing in the first person, you always have to take into account what the character knows and how or to what extent they'll discuss something.
Title: Re: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: mercybound88 on January 13, 2011, 02:17:53 pm
I know this is an old post, but I just wanted to put in my opinion.  ;) I happen to agree with the original poster. After following the series from the beginning I was hoping for more detail in the scene between Adam and Mercy. Now, I don't want a raunchy scene because I don't think that would fit with the series, but I would have liked it to be somewhat like the scene from Cry Wolf. I thought that scene had enough detail without going overboard. During the scene between Adam and Mercy, however, I had no idea what was going on. I was actually confused during some of it and one of my friends didn't even know if they had actually had sex or not. You can have enough detail to be clear about what is going on without going overboard. In addition I have to agree with the poster that said they didn't know what Tim had done to Mercy until after it was done. I too had to go back and reread it, because I didn't realize what he had done at first either. My best friend who reads the series also felt the same way. Overall, I LOVE the series and I'm glad it isn't dripping with sex like most other books are, but a little more detail would be nice and I'm sure Mrs Briggs could do it in a tactful way as she demonstrated in Cry Wolf.
Title: Re: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: Patti L. on January 13, 2011, 06:41:07 pm
If you've read "Silver Borne", their scene at the end of that is more explicit, and should satisfy you.
Title: Re: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: little gray wolf on June 02, 2011, 05:14:39 pm
I'm happy the books aren't explicite. My mom and I share an Amazon acount, so she reads some of the books that I do. Anything too explicit would be acward and it leaves the books open to younger readers. 
Title: Re: Sex
Post by: issah26 on June 02, 2011, 09:28:21 pm
I'm just re-reading Blood Bound, and came across the point where Mercy finally gets her shower after Stefan gets her back home from the first confrontation with Littleton, and she specifically says there "Littleton hadn't raped me, but he'd violated my body just the same."  So that's another bit of damage layered under what Tim did to her in Iron Kissed, and reinforced by/with what The Monster did to her in Bone Crossed.

It seems that she was emotionaly and blood (bitten) violated in Bone Crossed, physically in Blood Bound, and sexually in Iron Kissed.
Title: Re: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: Sadie on June 18, 2011, 01:34:36 pm
Just read through this discussion and have some comments. Imagine that! Sorry in advance for the treatise.

I write fiction (not published) and started writing what would now be categorized as erotica. I don't anymore and my reason for moving away from highly explicit sex is because I wanted to delve deeper into the emotional connections of my characters. I'm fond of Nora Roberts and her love scenes, which are hot but get more into the heads and emotions of characters than the mechanics of love making. I won't turn down a steamy hot love scene if it fits the book, but I'm less concerned on the physical aspect and more intrigued by the emotional. I think Patty does an excellent job of showing us the emotional connections between Adam and Mercy. She has a steamy scene here or there (when Mercy deigns to share the details of Adams prowess with us :D) and those are fun. But it fits the tone of the books and the series for Patty to write more fade to black scenes. If she were to start writing incredibly detailed scenes in the Mercy books, it would be completely out of place, in my opinion.

Now, Mercy and Adam's first time was tentative and gentle and about healing and connecting, again in my opinion. I've survived rape. I know the panic that can occur when someone you love touches you or crowds you in a way that reminds you of the rape. I know how hard that first time can be after, even when you want to be ready. Sorry if this is TMI and it's leading up to a point. I think the scene was spot on for Mercy and for Adam. It was when Mercy leaned on love and when she started to really banish Tim - not to mention all the other scars she has carried in her soul. She's a strong one, our Mercy. I think it took her making love to Adam and finding that oneness that comes from pure, true love that helped her move forward and heal.

Now, I would need to reread the books with an eye to all that lead up to and occurred after Tim to know if my opinions hold true, but I know this is how I felt when reading BC and SB. I may be transferring my own experience onto the books, but at the end of the day, isn't that what we all do? :)

Title: Re: Sex in the Mercy Thompson Series
Post by: little gray wolf on June 19, 2011, 01:42:38 am
You have very good points. Thanks for your POV