The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Mercy Thompson | A&O Books Board => The Weres => Published Books => Topic started by: Letitia on February 04, 2009, 11:03:18 am

Title: [Mercy #4] Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 04, 2009, 11:03:18 am
Well, I got my copy in the mail at lunch time yesterday and had it finished a couple hours after supper! It's hard to decide where to start, so much happened in this book (and now I find myself, like a little kid, wanting to beg for "More, more, more!")...

It seems I should of been making little notes on things as I read, because it's hard to pick a point to start! I will just start with one topic, and maybe we can each think of something and then discuss it?

Okay - so - what a 'whoa' moment was Adam making Mercy pack (and, a bit ew)? I was not expecting it to be such an out-of-the-blue moment. It fits though, and giving Mercy no time to overthink it was a good thing. I like the way their relationship has progressed so far, there's lots of give and take. Adjustments. They obviously don't have it all figured out so far. The way pack magic works is still all sorts of confusion to me, but maybe that's because it is to Mercy. I really like that she stood up to Aurielle, it was about time. I think that can only help the situation, I mean Aurielle didn't like Darryl at first either. The pack dynamic, as Adam was describing it, was pretty cool. How they can sense what others feel about them, and Adam uses it to benefit the pack. I'd be interested to know more about the weres and the pack in the next book.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 04, 2009, 11:15:35 am
Well, I admit, I wouldn't have guessed that Adam can be that tricky. xD Of course, it was for saving Mercy from Stephan's mind-control but I think, maybe he had some utterior motives. Perhaps he just wanted to make her his for sure as soon as possible, because he sensed her thoughts about leaving.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 04, 2009, 11:20:29 am
Stefan definitely brought out the "territory marking" in Adam...

Speaking of Stefan, how sad did this book make you for him? Terribly, for me. He has so much love for Mercy (in my opinion) and no hopes of reciprocation. And Marsillia using that to play him like a pawn? No wonder he feels horrible about himself.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: nina86 on February 04, 2009, 11:50:28 am
Okay so I finally had time to finish the book and I have to say a have mixed feelings.  I love this series but something about this particular book felt off and I dont know exactly what it was.  At first I thought it was the dialogue it felt at times too forced or unnaturally sappy and at other times I felt it was because of Mercy and Adams chemistry felt off.  Maybe they were just suffering from what a lot of main characters go through once they finally get together and the relationship doesn't live up to expectations. And at times I just thought the main plot didn't quite blend well enough with the subplots.

I just don't know and I was just wondering if I was the only one who thought this book felt different from the others in the series?  Maybe the book will be better the second time around
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ElefiNecol on February 04, 2009, 12:02:37 pm
I loved the book.  I agree that it felt different from the rest, but I felt that Patty provided Character Growth which is something many series lack.  To me Adam and Mercy already had an established relationship, be it newly acknowledged, I thought that although they were still settling into the relationship they are mature adults and it didn't have some of the drama that some books focus on for ages.  I don't want to read an entire series in which the hero takes for ever to learn or resolve anything.  I think what highlighted the character growth for was p. 110 when Mercy realizes and even laughs that they are all trying to protect each other, and is mature enough to not try to run off and save the world on her own.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 04, 2009, 12:14:37 pm
I understand what you  mean and I agree with Elefi about the character growth!
But also I think this is the book where we actually get to see the real Adam - although we got glimpses of him in Iron Kissed. Adam has been on edge for most of the time since he was introduced in Moon Called. First his daughter gets kidnapped and then Sam comes along to compete with him for Mercy's affection and its kept him holding onto his control.
Once Mercy accepted him and became his mate he could truly relax- with Mercy he could be truly himself and we saw that. Its the same thing with Mercy - the rape left her vulnerable but like that revelation in the car it also shook her up in a way to make her realize that she is needed but also needs to have that family/pack and like all families yep you get the ones you cant get on with but they are still family.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 04, 2009, 12:40:01 pm
Nina, to me the book did not feel as "edgy" as the other books.  Adam certainly isn't as edgy in this one as he is in IK or even BB.  The scary portions -- like with Blackwood -- did not seem as dark and tense as in the other books.  I'm all for sappy, so I was happy with the way Adam and Mercy's relationship played out in BC, but I didn't detect as much sexual tension as has been between them in previous books.

When I finished reading BC the first time, I'd say that my reaction was positive, but not necessarily over-the-moon "yay!"  But here's a problem that I have:  I NEVER like hardbacks as much as paperbacks.  That's always been the case with me, and I honestly think I have this ingrained bias against hardbacks that colors my perception of the story itself.  So when it comes to a hardcover book, I'm never quite certain about the "truthfulness" of my reaction.  Am I reacting to the story?  Or to the format?

Now, having read BC several more times, I like the story quite a bit, but it still doesn't seem to have the same "heft" that the other books have had.  (Honestly...maybe that goes back to the format thing.  In the paperback, the pages are small, the words are small and close together.  The story LOOKS substantial.  In the hardback, because of the formatting -- the words are big and spaced farther apart, the lines are spaced farther apart -- the story doesn't LOOK s subtantial.)

One thing I really liked a lot was the relationship between Mercy and Adam.  Loved the part at the dojo when the brown belt was coming on strong and Adam just stood by and let Mercy handle it.  When the sensei asked him why he didn't get involved, Adam makes it clear that he trusts Mercy's skills but also her common sense (to ask for help if she needs it).  I thought that was very respectful, and to me it spoke directly to the fear that Mercy had had (in previous books) that Adam would coddle her too much in his alpha/dominant need to protect.  In the scene after Adam makes Mercy pack, she thanks him for making some hard choices where she was concerned -- like when he used his alpha mojo to force her to drink the fairy juice.  Then later, when Mercy told Adam that hostage-taking is for bad guys...but he was fortunate to have such a great sidekick....  I liked very much how it was clear in this book that Adam and Mercy are peers and partners...equals.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 04, 2009, 12:59:51 pm
You know, I think BC is way much better than IK. In IK I've thought the beginning pretty tiresome and Mercy's behavior towards Adam was just plain immature, though the end really pushed the book higher in my opinion. I had not expected that.
In BC I started to like Mercy a lot more. I totally agree with Has. Mercy has grown up, she and Adam are now above all this drama and I really like that.

And about Stephan, as I wrote before, it was just heartbreaking to see him suffer that much. He really is an adorable character and shouldn't doubt about himself that much, though it makes him even more likeable. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 04, 2009, 01:06:08 pm
This book does have a different feel than the others, but I too agree it has to do with character growth... The only thing that I miss in this book, that the others have, is the sexual tension. BUT, because of the events in IK - well - I just don't think Mercy is feeling sexual at all. Toward the end of the book she's getting there though. I think the playfulness and the sexualness will return in the next book. I mean, you can't have a character go through that and then just not have it affect them, and change the dynamic for a while.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 04, 2009, 01:29:48 pm
This book does have a different feel than the others, but I too agree it has to do with character growth... The only thing that I miss in this book, that the others have, is the sexual tension. BUT, because of the events in IK - well - I just don't think Mercy is feeling sexual at all. Toward the end of the book she's getting there though. I think the playfulness and the sexualness will return in the next book. I mean, you can't have a character go through that and then just not have it affect them, and change the dynamic for a while.

I agree- but I think they were both taking things slow and easy because of Mercy's rape. But I definitely have the same feeling especially how Mercy likes to rile up Adam. That scene in the car was the precurser to that :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Midangel on February 04, 2009, 01:42:24 pm
I LOVED this book. Has to be my favourite in the series so far. ;D

For me, this was Stefan's book. We finally saw the person he is, the one he claims that doesn't exist any more, but the way he put his head on top of Mercy's at the end of the book, really pulled my heart strings.

Now, I adored Adam in this book. Again, we saw the side of him that we didn't get to see in previous books which makes sense. Before, Mercy didn't let him get close, therefore we didn't get to see the loving side of him. Now that she is his mate, and part of the pack, Adam is much more lighter, though I'm not sure I'm using the right word. He hasn't lost his intensity, but the love he shares for her and his pack shone in this book.

I have to admit I was kinda disappointed that we didn't get to see the smexy event with Adam and Mercy. I would have loved to read the scene when they were making love. But hey, perhaps next book. :D

Regarding Sam, I just want to cuddle him and never let go. My gosh, who saw his pain when he was looking at what 'could' have been his. I hope someone comes along soon, and makes Sam happy. He really needs it.

There is so much more to discuss, but for now my brain is spent. LOL


Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Howl~n~Growl on February 04, 2009, 02:44:25 pm
Wow, where to start. I really loved this book. so much so that I want the next in the series *in demanding voice of a spoiled brat* NOW!, NOW!, NOW!, NOW! *croses arms and stompts feet* (what can I say my children taught me well.. :) )

As much as I agree that this was Stefans book, because it showed us more of the side of him that we kept catching glimpses of in the other books, I have to say it was even more about Mercy growing up.
I think that when Mercy put her fingers in Stefans mouth to help detach him from Adam and he completly closed up not wanting to attack Mercy, it showed Adam just how much Stefan really did love Mercy even though he was a vampire.

I understand what you  mean and I agree with Elefi about the character growth!
But also I think this is the book where we actually get to see the real Adam - although we got glimpses of him in Iron Kissed. Adam has been on edge for most of the time since he was introduced in Moon Called. First his daughter gets kidnapped and then Sam comes along to compete with him for Mercy's affection and its kept him holding onto his control.
Once Mercy accepted him and became his mate he could truly relax- with Mercy he could be truly himself and we saw that. Its the same thing with Mercy - the rape left her vulnerable but like that revelation in the car it also shook her up in a way to make her realize that she is needed but also needs to have that family/pack and like all families yep you get the ones you cant get on with but they are still family.

I also agree with this, it was nice to see the "real" Adam.

I LOVED this book. Has to be my favourite in the series so far. ;D

For me, this was Stefan's book. We finally saw the person he is, the one he claims that doesn't exist any more, but the way he put his head on top of Mercy's at the end of the book, really pulled my heart strings.

Now, I adored Adam in this book. Again, we saw the side of him that we didn't get to see in previous books which makes sense. Before, Mercy didn't let him get close, therefore we didn't get to see the loving side of him. Now that she is his mate, and part of the pack, Adam is much more lighter, though I'm not sure I'm using the right word. He hasn't lost his intensity, but the love he shares for her and his pack shone in this book.

I have to admit I was kinda disappointed that we didn't get to see the smexy event with Adam and Mercy. I would have loved to read the scene when they were making love. But hey, perhaps next book. :D

Regarding Sam, I just want to cuddle him and never let go. My gosh, who saw his pain when he was looking at what 'could' have been his. I hope someone comes along soon, and makes Sam happy. He really needs it.

There is so much more to discuss, but for now my brain is spent. LOL

And I agree with this too...you guys just say it better than I do. :)

One of my absolute favorite parts was when Adam took Mercy to bed and just held her through out the night.

Nina, to me the book did not feel as "edgy" as the other books.  Adam certainly isn't as edgy in this one as he is in IK or even BB.  The scary portions -- like with Blackwood -- did not seem as dark and tense as in the other books.


I think Blackwood was completly freaky and scary in his own right. The only other Vamp in the series that has his feel of creepyness is Wulfe. The other vamps are scary in their own right, but last time we had a Demon Vamp, and Wulfe says he can make another, and now we have..had a vamp that knows..umm..knew how to steel other creatures powers from them, and he did it! What is scarier than that?
Well, ok so there might be something scarier than that in the next book, but come on, that's pretty darn scary if I do say so myself.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 04, 2009, 02:50:55 pm
Yep this was really Stefan's book - in many ways this book carries on the theme of loyalty from the previous book. But this book was also about double crosses - I loved how it ties with the title :D

For instance- Blackwood has he got ties with the wolves in The Marrok. Has Bran got a traitor? Gerry and his plans and the tranq darts. Tag - Please I hope hes not a traitor. How did he know about something so personal?

The vampire with bloody hands- he was definitely more creepy out of all the vamps. Has he got a similar ability as the grandmother vamp?  And it looks like he was using Estelle and Benard to gain access to the Seethe and Marsillia knew it because they wouldnt be able to hold it together.
And then her betrayal towards Stefan - it was definitely heartwrenching. Like the Weres it looks like the vampires need those ties and healthy ones to be healthy. I think Stefan's ties to his menagerie and to Mercy and other humans helps him to keep his humanity if that makes sense.

That scene with Sam was also heartbreaking and that made me concern because it really looks like that Sam was going to lose it even though Mercy felt he was going to be alright :(
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 04, 2009, 02:53:55 pm
Well, didn't Mercy said something about a ghost that gave Blackwood information about the Marrock? So no traitor there.

But yes, I am feeling for Sam, too. He has never seemed that instable before in the books - except in Blood Bound when he wanted to eat the hurt baby, but that was because of the vampire-demon-thingy.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 04, 2009, 02:58:47 pm
I might have missed that I was reading the ebook and I felt like I was missing things at times the formatting wasnt that great on mobipocket - but still he was working with Gerry and he was definitely spying on the wolves. I wonder if he was involved in anything else. It definitely sounds like he was closely watching Mercy until he lost track of her when she left the Marrok.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 04, 2009, 03:01:23 pm
You know that was probably her luck. If she hadn't left them, maybe he would've gotten her earlier and without her having Stephan and the Walking Stick for self-defense.. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 04, 2009, 03:05:37 pm
Yep definitely!!!
Especially since he was on a lookout for another walker!
Did anyone get the impression that the walkers have a longer lifespan or was it because of the numerous blood exchanges?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Howl~n~Growl on February 04, 2009, 03:46:38 pm
i did get the impression that walkers had a longer lifespan, but it could have been the blood exchanges.

I like the thought that they are granted a longer lifespan, cuz I want Mercy to be around for a long while, and have a chance to spend a long time with Adam.  ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 04, 2009, 04:47:17 pm
 I like how we were able to learn more of Mercy's abilities, that of being able to control ghosts.

I also thought much of the dialog was just amazing. I mean who else was laughing their head off when Mercy and Adam were talking abuot Medea, every time. ^_^

I like how we're able to see that Adam's ex-wife hurt him, so he was feeling a little vulnerable himself.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 04, 2009, 07:16:44 pm
For instance- Blackwood has he got ties with the wolves in The Marrok. Has Bran got a traitor? Gerry and his plans and the tranq darts. Tag - Please I hope hes not a traitor. How did he know about something so personal?
Yeah, I think it was mentioned that Blackwood had a ghost spying on the Marrok's area. Gerry came to him because of his reputation with weapons, but he sent Gerry away with no memory of the conversation (according to Blackwood himself, who certainly isn't a reliable narrator!). So I don't think there's a spy in the Marrok's camp. (But I could be all rose-colored glasses on this.)

Quote
The vampire with bloody hands- he was definitely more creepy out of all the vamps. Has he got a similar ability as the grandmother vamp?  And it looks like he was using Estelle and Benard to gain access to the Seethe and Marsillia knew it because they wouldnt be able to hold it together. And then her betrayal towards Stefan - it was definitely heartwrenching. Like the Weres it looks like the vampires need those ties and healthy ones to be healthy. I think Stefan's ties to his menagerie and to Mercy and other humans helps him to keep his humanity if that makes sense.

I got the sense that the bloody gauntlets somehow connected the vamp to the truth chair, so that he would "feel" the truth of it and not rely on Wulfe's pronouncement. But yeah, he seemed a scary dude and definitely was up to something. I felt bad for Stefan and, curiously, for Bernard. Bernard did have the best interests of the seethe at heart, and I wonder if Stefan's loyalty will bite him in the butt eventually. Marsilia's nutters.

Quote
That scene with Sam was also heartbreaking and that made me concern because it really looks like that Sam was going to lose it even though Mercy felt he was going to be alright :(
Yeah, for sure. Sam needs someone, a family, someone who can be what he wanted Mercy to be. But then again, I wonder how that could be done without seeming sort of deus ex machina. But we must trust in Patty. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on February 04, 2009, 07:24:34 pm
I wonder if Mercy will ask Sensi Johnson to teach her Nagita kata for use with the walking stick? What does the Oak tree mean a new alliance for her, more spy by the fae, or is Oakman just hanging around to repay him. will the Oakman teach Mercy more about the walking stick and it's maker?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2009, 07:25:45 pm
Quote
Yeah, for sure. Sam needs someone, a family, someone who can be what he wanted Mercy to be. But then again, I wonder how that could be done without seeming sort of deus ex machina. But we must trust in Patty.


*smirk silently*
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 04, 2009, 07:28:46 pm
I wonder about the oak too, was that the oakman, or somehow did he transplant the tree that had told him Mercy would save him?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2009, 07:32:27 pm
I believe that the sapling IS the oakman, Zealith.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kravbeast on February 04, 2009, 07:34:38 pm
Just a short note to say that I loved this book...BUT I wanted more loving between Mercy and Adam. The only thing I am dissapointed with is that my book will not be autographed because Ms. Briggs's tour is not coming to my state. :'(
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 04, 2009, 07:35:32 pm
I believe that the sapling IS the oakman, Zealith.

That's what I thought, too, Patti.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 04, 2009, 07:39:44 pm
I didn't even think of it until gryphon340 mentioned it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2009, 07:51:40 pm
I hope the oakman will teach her more about the stick and He who made it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 04, 2009, 07:59:23 pm
I think if who ever had written the book knew about the fae who'd made the stick they would have mentioned it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 04, 2009, 08:02:58 pm
Lugh is a pretty major figure in Celtic mythology, actually. But that's a good point. Maybe they didn't know who made it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 04, 2009, 08:18:22 pm
Good point. I didn't recognise the name, but I also admit to knowing next to nothing about celtic mythology.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2009, 09:32:48 pm
I faintly recognize it, and it's entirely possible that [1 .] the writer of the book didn't know he'd made the stick, and [2.] now that Mercy knows, she can cross reference between him & the stick, both in the book and on the web.
When, of course, she gets a chance.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: retro on February 04, 2009, 09:39:14 pm
I loved the book, mercy and adam progressed in a natural way. they arnt fighting there atracion anymore. he was givinh here the space she wanted but the attention she needed. as for blackwood not being scary or dark, he bite her twice without here remembering that had a effect given her reacent attack. and he was rapeing her freind magicly she just didnt remeber it that is a diffrent kind of threat but no less dark
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Roz on February 04, 2009, 09:43:47 pm
Um, did I read too long into the night & go surreal or was there a definite theme going on w/ sheep/lambs? What with Mercy's necklace, magic walking stick, Stefan's flock, etc.
I've added Stefan (along w/ Bran) to my list of great men characters whom I hope kicks their bad women habit to the curb.

Thanks Patti for another great book. The only author on my shelf who hasn't written a book that I didn't like.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 04, 2009, 09:58:20 pm
Well, the neckless thing does make sense, and there may be a real story about a stick that increases the yeild in a sheep flock.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Demi on February 05, 2009, 02:36:36 am
I liked the book. But when i was finished i took
Annas Book and read it again. AFTER that i was
wondering about myself.
Don´t get me wrong i really love Mercys Books.
I like the coyote detective mechanic, stayalive-woman.
I know her pace ist fast. Maybe thats why i took Annas
Book after it - I don´t know.

I have still many questions, but i have some answers
to my last, i am curious about Mercy and the Pack and
how she will fit and feel in it. Finally she belongs - even if
there are some which look down on her.

I liked that Bran came to see her. Although Samuel said she is
like a daughter for him, she is still kind on alert around him. Maybe
she dosen´t believe it yet or it is a habit?

I was happy with Adam and Mercy, i was sad because of Stefan.
And Samuel... for him and Honey and Anna
I am still waiting/hoping for the walking stick to help with baby werewolves :)

Personal note: I would like to tell so much more from
what i think about this book, i liked it a lot, but i still really can´t express myself very well
in this language, and maybe some things are not expressed
though i tried. But reading works fine now :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2009, 08:04:55 am
I noticed the lamb/sheep theme, too, and I liked it.

Demi, your post was fine. Your English is surely a lot better than my... well, any other language. :) Yes, Mercy is still on alert around Bran. I think that's because she knows quite well how powerful he is, no matter how well he hides it from almost everyone else. Plus, there's a LOT of history between the two of them, not all of it good. It's not that he's been awful to her, more that he (admittedly) made choices for her that might not have been as perfectly thought out as he thought. And even though I think it turned out well in the end (and I think Mercy thinks so), she really hates having people make choices FOR her.

That's one of the things I was so enjoying in the book, was Adam reinforcing over and over again that he would let her stand on her own.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 05, 2009, 08:57:46 am
And Mercy having the honesty and goodness to thank Adam for doing something he knew she would hate.  I really loved that scene, where she acknowledges his love by thanking him for making hard choices for her in spite of his fear it would drive her away.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 05, 2009, 09:02:49 am
I really liked Mercy's discovery about Bran having such a soft spot for her. It was touching.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Midangel on February 05, 2009, 09:17:04 am
I really liked Mercy's discovery about Bran having such a soft spot for her. It was touching.

I liked that part also!

I was chatting about it with Has, but we noticed that Bran seemed to have some other troubles perhaps. With Mercy noticing how tired he was?

LOL, I agree with Roz. I'm also adding Marisilia into my 'she must go very far away' along with Leah. :P

Edit: I can never spell Marisila's name right. lol
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 05, 2009, 09:26:28 am
I bet, we get to know about Bran's problems in the Anna novels. :>
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 05, 2009, 09:27:30 am
Quote
Yeah, for sure. Sam needs someone, a family, someone who can be what he wanted Mercy to be. But then again, I wonder how that could be done without seeming sort of deus ex machina. But we must trust in Patty.


*smirk silently*

Are you smirking because you know something and aren't sharing?  >:(
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 05, 2009, 09:38:19 am
I'm accidentally privy to something I'm not sure about the ethics of repeating, but I have my flaws, I smirked.  *hides head in shame*
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2009, 09:40:09 am
Don't repeat it here, at least without a MAJOR spoiler notice and a long series of return/enters, so I can skip over it. I try to stay spoiler free. This thread, though it's marked spoiler, doesn't count for me because I've read the book.  8)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 05, 2009, 09:40:41 am
......

Evil, pure and simple evil!

.....

I'm in shock

.....

That was so evil!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 05, 2009, 09:45:39 am
*buffs nails/talons modestly*
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 05, 2009, 10:43:39 am
i did get the impression that walkers had a longer lifespan, but it could have been the blood exchanges.

I like the thought that they are granted a longer lifespan, cuz I want Mercy to be around for a long while, and have a chance to spend a long time with Adam.  ;D

I think Walkers probably could have as long a lifespan as weres, if not for two things: 1) They seem to be loners by nature, no packs to speak of, and 2) They have a knack for finding trouble and causing trouble just as their wild kin.

Mercy obviously fits into the second part but she has found a pack to be a part of... So, her odds at a long life are improved. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 05, 2009, 10:45:38 am
Quote
Yeah, for sure. Sam needs someone, a family, someone who can be what he wanted Mercy to be. But then again, I wonder how that could be done without seeming sort of deus ex machina. But we must trust in Patty.


*smirk silently*

Don't smirk silently! If you know something, Patti, please PM me!!!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on February 05, 2009, 10:47:58 am
I'm accidentally privy to something I'm not sure about the ethics of repeating, but I have my flaws, I smirked.  *hides head in shame*

I adore Samuel.  That was a cruel smirk.  Now I'm hanging by my thumbs.  :'(  ;) :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 05, 2009, 10:52:46 am
Ditto! And we don't even know if we will find out in the next book! I'm guessing Patty maybe slipped something in when she and Mike had supper with Patti? In which case... maybe Patty slipped it in on purpose so Patti can tell us!
Buahahahaha!
Like I can't rationalise things >:D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on February 05, 2009, 11:24:34 am

Regarding Sam, I just want to cuddle him and never let go. My gosh, who saw his pain when he was looking at what 'could' have been his. I hope someone comes along soon, and makes Sam happy. He really needs it.

Not to be spoilerish . . . but Patty's got someone very nice all picked out for Sam.  Don't know if there's little wolves in the future, but she's VERY long-lived, so he needn't be alone again.  And now, I'll shut up before Patty biffs me.  Just thought you should know.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on February 05, 2009, 11:37:48 am
* GLOMPS startled Mike *   :D

Oh, thank you so much, now I can rest my thumbs - the hanging was killing me!  :D 

Sam's my favorite (I know, we're not supposed to have favorites  ;) ), and I'm so glad Patty's taking care of him.  ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Midangel on February 05, 2009, 11:41:58 am

Regarding Sam, I just want to cuddle him and never let go. My gosh, who saw his pain when he was looking at what 'could' have been his. I hope someone comes along soon, and makes Sam happy. He really needs it.

Not to be spoilerish . . . but Patty's got someone very nice all picked out for Sam.  Don't know if there's little wolves in the future, but she's VERY long-lived, so he needn't be alone again.  And now, I'll shut up before Patty biffs me.  Just thought you should know.

You just made me Squee out loud (and I hate sqeeing) which resulted in me spluttering with my cold and sore throat. :D

All I can say is YAY and add myGLOMPS along with Ellyll. Plus, I hope Patty doesn't biff you.  LOL

 

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 05, 2009, 11:43:51 am
Oh My
Mike you so made my day with that little tidbit - thank you!!!!
Another GLOMP  ;D  :-*



I bet, we get to know about Bran's problems in the Anna novels. :>

Yep that is what I was thinking. I just got the feeling that he was really exhausted and even though rape aftermath and the fallout out of that especially since he regards Mercy as a daughter it would take its toll on him but I think its more. Bet Leah is being naughty perhaps???

Another thing - I also realised something else about Bran and Mercy. I think I raised this with Midangel - I think Bran wasnt as controlling to Mercy as he could be because I think he loves and cares for her as a daughter but also because I think he likes her independent spirit and spunk like the same way as Adam. He can appreciate that he can be himself around her and he knows that she knows what he is really like.
Another thing - Bran asked Mercy to leave to protect her from other wolves who would have realised the same the thing as Sam did. Thats going to cause trouble and alot of tension in the pack- and Sam did state he wanted to claim her before another older wolf did.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 05, 2009, 11:49:20 am
Uh, that is great news, thx! ^-^

And yes, I think so, too. Because of Mercy being an insider but still an outcast it is easier for Bran to relax.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 05, 2009, 11:57:45 am
Bet Leah is being naughty perhaps???


Grrrrr....Leah.   >:(  Grrrr....

(And yay!  Happy news about Sam!  Woot!)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 05, 2009, 12:30:35 pm
Oooo! Thank you Mr. Mike!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Midangel on February 05, 2009, 12:41:13 pm
Bet Leah is being naughty perhaps???


Grrrrr....Leah.   >:(  Grrrr....

(And yay!  Happy news about Sam!  Woot!)

I'll add in my growls too! I want to shoo her away from Bran.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: x11tech on February 05, 2009, 02:16:13 pm
.
.
.
I have to admit I was kinda disappointed that we didn't get to see the smexy event with Adam and Mercy. I would have loved to read the scene when they were making love. But hey, perhaps next book. :D
.
.
.

Comment intended for the author (Patty):

There is already another author out there who treats all her characters as sex toys.  I'm not opposed to an occasional sexual interlude, but if it becomes anything more than that, I'm going to have flashbacks to another series I already left (in one book I understand one of the books starts with and goes on for an extended amount of time about a single encounter...  no plot at all except related to the drama surrounding who's schlepping whom.)

So, this is the one thing I hope we don't see an excess of in Mercy's stories. 

Edit: And to be honest, I'm fine with "fade to black" treatment.  I don't need the sexual interludes in my books to make them feel "more real" to me.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 05, 2009, 03:41:57 pm
Thanks Mike! I'm glad to know Sam's going to get someone. I just hope Patty manages it so it doesn't feel too much like she's just doing it to make us fans happy.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on February 05, 2009, 05:11:48 pm
Spoilerish Reassurance???   ???

If you'll pardon my slight failure of diplomacy, NOTHING she could write could keep all the fans happy.  Forcing a happily ever after on everyone isn't realistic.  Sam's been through heck, and frankly, without an anchor of some sort, is probably going to end up on Charles'  "to-do" list, which would lead to all sorts of drama and angst, but probably not make an enjoyable story.  Some fans are going to be upset that the ultimate "Lone Wolf" got tied down, and complain that it's pandering to the myth that couples are happier.  Some fans are going to be upset with WHO he ends up with, because she's not necessarily the most charismatic being out there.  Some folks are going to whine if they CAN have kids, and others will complain if they CAN'T.   Heck, there's going to be some readers who are upset that he's getting together with a WOMAN.  So, Patty will tell the story HER way, but since that doesn't involve Charles hunting and killing his older brother, Sam's going to to have to find a reason to embrace life again, and TRUE LOVE fits that bill better than just about anything else.   

Hope I haven't ruined the story -- Patty will tell this with a LOT more sensitivity than I did, and she's pretty good about hiding the fact that events often happen based on what makes a more enjoyable story.   And now, I'm going to go play somewhere else, before I get slapped with a hot waffle iron.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: opramum on February 05, 2009, 05:29:44 pm
But I wanted Sam for MYSELF ....  ::)! <evil cackle>
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 05, 2009, 05:48:17 pm
That's alright, you can go ahead and pretend who ever he ends up with is you. :b
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2009, 06:51:45 pm
Oh, Mike, you didn't ruin anything. Now I'm looking forward to seeing who it is! ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 05, 2009, 07:29:09 pm
Huuum, some interesting insights in this read. I don't have much to add, but maybe just some thoughts about Mercy. At the end of this book she is quite a bit more formidable then she was before I think. She learned of her ability to command ghosts as a walker. She also gained the mate bond with Adam as well as the pack bond. I am not sure how much power she can draw on through it, not being a Were. But she is the mate of the Alpha so that might have some crossover to her.

I am now racking my brain going over all the long lived uncharismatic females we've seen in the books trying to match one up with Sam. So far coming up with Zilch! I keep thinking of all the female vampires!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2009, 07:33:52 pm
Maybe it's Lilly the crazy vamp?  ::)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 05, 2009, 07:39:21 pm
Mike, you just made my day! I know it must be really frustrating for Patty that no matter what she writes someone is always going to be upset that she did not write her story their way ::). I love your post, it was to the point. Love it  :)

My first thought was Baba ::), maybe it was the uncharismatic part. I liked her though. Maybe I'm just being hysterical from lack of sleep ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 05, 2009, 07:41:57 pm
 :D I she uncharismatic though? A little crazy, but she came off as nice crazy!

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a Fae though. If the possibility of kids is there, it can't be a Were then... I am just thinking here, but I am gonna think hard about all the Fae we know about.

Baba though? Would be interesting to see how they met and courted!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on February 05, 2009, 08:01:14 pm
OK, just to keep from burning too many brain cells.  Sam's lady hasn't yet shown up in any of the books.  I'm not sure WHEN the stars are going to line up for poor Samuel, only that they will.  Some plot threads are very sketchy going forward, and some are pretty firm.  The how and why (and possibly even the who) are still very lightly drawn, so it's no use getting too worked up.  Even Patty couldn't give you much more than I've already blabbed, and she may change her mind about the timing and details several times yet.

I just wanted to acknowledge that Sam needs a bit of good news on the romance front eventually to prevent a very ugly descent into despondency and madness.  Since he deserves better than that, consider the fairy godmother duly summoned, with her magic wand fully charged.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 05, 2009, 08:08:58 pm
Thanks for clearing that up Mike! Now I won't have to worry about cerebral hemorrhage tomorrow at work when I get bored and my thoughts start to wander! :D

It's good to know Patty hasn't forgotten about Sam! I was getting worried about him. *bows* Thanks for the inside info Mike!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2009, 08:41:06 pm
Although, if Patty's looking for ideas, we've been batting about ideas for Samuel to have crossover nookie with ladies from other series.  ;) ;D :P
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mystify on February 05, 2009, 09:18:00 pm
I finished the book today and I thought it was great. I don't know if I can explain this very well, but I love the way Patty tells stories and after not reading a book of hers for so long, this story was something new and yet so familiar at the same time. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Anyway, it was a great book and well worth the hard cover price even though I'm pretty sure I will also be buying it in paperback too because I can take those in my bag a lot easier and this entire series is on my keeper shelf. I'm definitely looking forward to the rest of this series.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on February 05, 2009, 09:48:13 pm
I have to say it's just a relief to me to know that there is someone out there for Sam. That makes me happy.

I got my copy today and it's gorgeous! I didn't think I could love Adam anymore but I do, but I adored him in BC. I think he and Mercy are a great fit and the most telling of that to me was his comment about her making him laugh. He needs that and she needs the security that comes from knowing he loves her.

Best line for me: Like Napoleon trying to take over Russia.

The image that invoked was priceless.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Snoopy on February 05, 2009, 10:59:09 pm
I loved "I'll spy your little eye and squish it"!! That made me laugh so hard!! :D

Ditto for Warren's and Kyle's hot tub scene...

I also thought it was great that Mercy had to fight her own way free of Blackwood in the end, without Adam or Sam or whoever coming to the rescue (well, Stefan, but he only made it a little easier for her). I think that'll go a long way to her regaining her self-confidence.

And it was cool how these events tied up what happened in MC and BB.

Overall, I loved BC. I think it's the best in the series yet.

And a big YAY for Sam and his future lady!!! I'm happy for him - and I'm glad we haven't 'met' her yet, or otherwise I'd go crazy trying to guess who she might be...  ;D :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 05, 2009, 11:32:20 pm


And a big YAY for Sam and his future lady!!! I'm happy for him - and I'm glad we haven't 'met' her yet, or otherwise I'd go crazy trying to guess who she might be...  ;D :D

Yeah. For a short moment I feared it might be Marsilia. xD
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CheeseBK on February 06, 2009, 01:53:13 am
I just loved the interaction between Adam and Mercy. Still teasing in places, but also very caring and tender... and I just adored Adam for how he dealt with Mercy's panic attacks and issues.

How he brought her into the pack was a great moment, IMO... it just shows how much he loves her, he got so scared he didn't think of pack laws or anything else, he just wanted her to be safe and his.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 03:05:12 am
I know!!!!

I wonder if Mercy's Coyote effect will have any interesting repercussions as well in the pack bonds. I didnt expect her that she would actually join the pack itself but it does make sense in a way. And I wonder how other wolves outside the pack will feel about that as well because they are all linked via Bran. And I bet Leah and a few others arent happy about this at all- would Adam and Bran have to deal with the fallout from other wolves? Other than dealing with the tension within his own pack.

I also wonder what type of  bond gift they are going to share as well. I bet its something really surprising and interesting ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Snoopy on February 06, 2009, 03:10:33 am
Oh, yes, I never thought of that, but I think Leah will be royally pissed!!! :o Not only can Mercy have kids, she's now part of the pack(s), which makes her even more Bran's daughter than she was before, sort of. Leah will absolutely resent that!!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 03:22:59 am
Ohhhhhh explains why Bran looked tired and exhausted because I bet she gave him a piece of her own mind to him about that!
And I think that is Leah's main resentment towards Mercy - yep the possibility of having werewolf children because then she might as well resent human women as well if that was main reason. But the main reason is that Bran LOVES Mercy like his sons and he doesnt allow alot of people to get close to him like that. Its something that Leah cant have and hates Mercy because of that as well as her being a coyote!

Its funny but when Mercy talks to her mother about Sam and being an outsider because she felt like one herself - shes not one anymore and she never really was. And I loved Adam's explanation about other weres facing prejudices inside the pack but then we all have that in families. :D                                                                                                                        
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: nottled on February 06, 2009, 06:12:55 am
Whew! I finally finished it without succumbing to the spoiler thread!!!

I agree that this book had a entirely different vibe. Adam and Mercy both were so much more relaxed and real to me. I don't think any of us could maintain that state of perpetual "tension" without snapping so it's good to see that they've gone a bit 'loosey goosey'.  :D

Her naked behind wiggling in the air was more than amusing. I wasn't disappointed with the love scene at all. I thought it was sweet and tender, as it should have been after her rape. I love that he's helped her create new memories to override the horrible ones. That's what healing is all about, eh?

I got a huge kick out of the 'Wait, I'm in the middle of a revelation" line.  :D That, and the 'thank you' speech she gave Adam. Both made me love Mercy just a little bit more for realizing the gifts in her lap.

I do feel that the poor girl has been brutalized physically more than any of us could possibly stand without ending up a bit, 'wabbit.' I hope she gets a substantial break before Patty sends her on another adventure. It'd be nice for them to have a little stretch of 'happy and quiet' before the next drama.

Thank you, Mike, for the reassurances that Sam will find love. I don't think I could survive his mental breakdown. I LOVE SAM SOOOO MUCH!!!! (Crying like Holly Hunter in Raising Arizona)

Also, I think it was an interesting tidbit that the mate bond could be disolved........(pursing lips and thinking of Bran and Leah)  :-X
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 06, 2009, 08:22:28 am
Hey, I had an amusing thought.

Now, be aware that I haven't actually had a chance to finish reading the REAL version yet and get the 'Mercy, the walking stick, lambs' thing in its entirety. 

Nonetheless, it struck me that Patty Briggs has some influence in that department too. 

Because,

wait for it,




this board is full of twins too!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 06, 2009, 08:24:39 am
Hey, I had an amusing thought.

Now, be aware that I haven't actually had a chance to finish reading the REAL version yet and get the 'Mercy, the walking stick, lambs' thing in its entirety. 

Nonetheless, it struck me that Patty Briggs has some influence in that department too. 

Because,

wait for it,




this board is full of twins too!

*confused* Huh? I think I missed something...
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 06, 2009, 08:29:40 am
Ah, an in joke, I'll have to get it into the "Tribal Knowledge" area. Basically, several of us here, because of perceived similarities, have declared each other long lost twins.  I'm twinned to charmed, Has and - is it Good Mazoku? have declared themselves twinned, and so on.  Sometimes there are 3 or more of us in one twin pack!  :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 06, 2009, 08:31:53 am
Aah - I see, I see. How sad to be untwinned.  :P
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 06, 2009, 08:34:42 am
Keep posting, especially in the book recommendation area and Patti's Place, that's where you're most likely to find your lost twins!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 08:35:18 am
Pssst I can claim you if you want! :D

better go back on topic :S

I wonder if the stick will use those lamb/flock elements since it seems to crop up so much. In many ways Mercy is in charge of a flock right? :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on February 06, 2009, 08:38:28 am
I like how Mercy is developing a relationship with the fairy walking stick. It's like it's a little puppy that's following her around. A very helpful puppy. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 06, 2009, 08:43:59 am
Pssst I can claim you if you want! :D


Yay! Now I know how Mercy must have felt!  ;)


I like how Mercy is developing a relationship with the fairy walking stick. It's like it's a little puppy that's following her around. A very helpful puppy. :D

It is the cutest walking stick I've ever heard/read about! I just hope it doesn't get a mean streak in it as it did with past owners. She has no flock of sheep, but she does have a pack of weres.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 08:50:16 am
:D - definitely join us in the books section lhasser!

I think as long as Mercy doesnt take the stick for granted I think it will be okay. I think the stick will cause something with the pack! She is co alpha and I wonder what the pack and matebond will also be affected. She is a coyote after all and they attract chaos and mayhem :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Demi on February 06, 2009, 08:51:33 am

Not to be spoilerish . . . but Patty's got someone very nice all picked out for Sam.  Don't know if there's little wolves in the future, but she's VERY long-lived, so he needn't be alone again.  And now, I'll shut up before Patty biffs me.  Just thought you should know.
Thank you so very much for this!!! I was worried about him. Thank you!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Letitia on February 06, 2009, 08:53:40 am
:D - definitely join us in the books section lhasser!


You will have to direct me on where to go - still getting used to navigating around the forum.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 06, 2009, 09:26:20 am
I think as long as Mercy doesnt take the stick for granted I think it will be okay. I think the stick will cause something with the pack! She is co alpha and I wonder what the pack and matebond will also be affected. She is a coyote after all and they attract chaos and mayhem :D

Hm. You know, the stick causes sheep to have twins. Maybe it will cause the pack to start having twins? :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 06, 2009, 09:49:03 am
Uh, maybe Mercy is going to have twins. xD
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 09:55:03 am
How about weresheep :D

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g82/Hascape/twinlambs.jpg)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 06, 2009, 09:55:13 am
Uh, maybe Mercy is going to have twins. xD


Well...Mercy was a "sheep," at least for a little while.  While she and Adam had sex, at least, she was still Stefan's "sheep."  (The blood-bond between Stefan and Mercy was broken at the end by Blackwood's feeding on her again.)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 10:36:08 am
You know thats a really interesting point- its like Mercy is at the centre of all these type of bonds and magic- vampire/werewolf/even fae with the stick and the cup. They all affected her but what if she somehow affects them back in some ways. Blackwood fed on her to gain control of ghosts, and I wonder if Stefan got a temporary boost in powers about that.

The interesting developments is definitely going to be the pack and the mate bond though :D

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on February 06, 2009, 10:40:32 am
I just wanted to acknowledge that Sam needs a bit of good news on the romance front eventually to prevent a very ugly descent into despondency and madness.  Since he deserves better than that, consider the fairy godmother duly summoned, with her magic wand fully charged.

Which was just perfect, Mike.  (Hence the startling glomp.  ;) )  For the rest of it, I've never been disappointed by one of Patty's stories yet, so I don't expect I will be this time.  Just think how boring it would be to read stories where you already know how they're going to turn out!  :)

On a totally separate note, about the walking stick.  Was I the only person who thought it might have healed Mercy after Blackwood beat her up and she thought he might kill her?  She was holding the stick for a long time, and then she was much less badly hurt than she expected to be. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 06, 2009, 10:42:35 am
Was I the only person who thought it might have healed Mercy after Blackwood beat her up and she thought he might kill her?  She was holding the stick for a long time, and then she was much less badly hurt than she expected to be. 

Oh...I credited the mate-bond for that.  Werewolves heal quickly, so I thought that Mercy was picking up on some of the pack-mojo through the mate-bond, and that was why the bruises were fading even as she watched them.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 10:49:18 am
That is what I was thinking Nifty!!!

Or it could be the vampire blood- but I think Mercy might use the pack bond/mate bond in a similar way that Mariposa shared with Asil's mate.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on February 06, 2009, 11:03:25 am
I was thinking too it was the vampire influence both Blackwood sucking on her neck and Stefan. *shivers*
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 06, 2009, 11:08:15 am
I was thinking too it was the vampire influence both Blackwood sucking on her neck and Stefan. *shivers*

Well...the only reason I didn't think it was the vampire influence was that (my understanding was that) Blackwood severed Stefan's bond with Mercy when he started feeding off her again (the 2nd time).  And Mercy severed Blackwood's bond with her when she killed him.  So at the end of the book, she's no longer tied to either vampire, and is only tied to Adam and the wolves. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 11:16:07 am
But it could still be a factor though because she fed from the blood- it more like a cell regeneration thing?
This is so a question for Patty - but I bet we get the evil grin lol
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 06, 2009, 11:45:20 am
Yeah, count me among those who thought she healed faster because she had just taken in Blackwood's blood. But the other possibilities are intriguing as well.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 06, 2009, 12:40:07 pm
Maybe it has been a mix of all three?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 01:36:18 pm
I found a really interesting link that explains who Lugh is in mythology - also the job interview is great! :D

http://www.godchecker.com/gotw/007_lugh.php
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 06, 2009, 01:40:50 pm
Thanks Has! Nice one, I didn't know anything about it. ^^
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 06, 2009, 01:41:17 pm
That's really funny, Has.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 06, 2009, 01:44:29 pm
Let me preface this with I do not consider myself a part of any organized religion. I just know Christianity and the Bible very well. Nor am I saying that BC is Christian literature or putting forth a Christian view of the world. Think of it like how Joss Whedon used Christian symbolism throughout Buffy, even though he considers himself to be "an angry atheist existentialist." The Bible is considered the best story ever written for a reason.

Being a fan of both Joss Whedon and well written books, I look for a unifying theme and how everything fits that. With BC is it Mercy as lamb. If you look at every action, every character, it ties to the idea of being a lamb. I will only address a few things here.

my single most favoritest moment was page 71 after Adam tricks her into eating flesh and blood to save her from Stefan and Mercy doesn't get mad, quite the opposite. I read it several times and started to cry. This is one of those turning points in the entire series that changes things.

I need to go back and find the exact passage in MC, but I love why Mercy wears a sheep instead of the more traditional cross. In BC, she most definitely became a sheep, but not Stefan's or Blackwell's. She doesn't need the necklace. She was what Jesus was, the Lamb of God. Mercy has always been willing to do things for others, but BC takes that to a whole new level. She decides not to yell at Adam, because she wasn't going to the be one to exact the price. She wasn't going to get her pound of flesh, so to speak.

Mercy is the hero of the book, so it is Mercy who ultimately has to save the day, but Mercy and Adam are a unit and what can be said of Mercy can also be said about Adam. Adam initially saves Mercy from becoming one of Stefan's sheep by offering his own blood when Stefan is injured, thus making his own sacrifice. When Mercy has to take Stefan's blood to save her from becoming Blackwell's sheep, just like Mercy didn't get mad earlier when she took Adam's blood, Adam didn't get mad at Mercy.

Mercy and Adam willing to sacrifice their own anger for the good of the other is a greater sacrifice for these two than being willing to put their lives on the line for others. Much of Mercy's character growth is about sacrificing ideas that were once survival mechanisms. page 256 "Because it was Adam, I let him in, accepting him into my secret heart. Something settled into place with a rightness that ran into my soul."

She isn't there all the way, as shown with her relationship with the pack. When things moved too quickly, it affected not only Mercy and Adam, but Darryl and Warren. However, she is willing to accept that some in the pack have problems with it and doesn't respond with anger or self defense. If anything, she used it for self-reflection.

Chad being deaf didn't just make him an interesting character. As it says in Matthew 11:15 "Let anyone with ears listen" which echoes Jeremiah 5:21 "Hear this, O foolish people, who have eyes, but do not see, who have ears, but to not hear." Mercy is willing to stay behind to save Chad, thus becoming a lamb who is willing to sacrifice herself for the greater good. Chad is all of us. He cannot see the ghosts, but he has faith in Mercy when she says they are real. John 21:29 "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet come to believe."

Stefan is referred to multiple times as the Soldier, but it is Stefan's role as a sacrifice that Marsilia uses to save herself. Chad means warrior. Its origin is Celtic. Corbin is Gaelic and means a steep hill. Mercy had to climb that hill to save Chad from his father's inability to accept ghosts as real.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on February 06, 2009, 01:54:43 pm
I don't like this idea about lambs too much. I cannot see Mercy as a lamb, because lambs don't sacrifice themselfes, they are sacrificed. It is a wholly passive thing in my eyes. Moreover, lambs are young and immature creatures, they cannot make any decisions, they follow the flock. This doesn't fit to any of the characters in the novels.
Sacrifices must be made by all of us, you may call it compromise. That is how relationships work, but that doesn't make you into a lamb.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 06, 2009, 02:18:32 pm
Of course I had trouble finding it, since the actual explanation is in BB, not MC (though I loved the image of Samuel taunting Mercy with "Mercy had a little lamb")

"I don't wear a cross. As a child, I'd had a bad experience with one. Besides, a crucifix was the instrument of Our Lord's death -- I don't know why people think a torture device should be a symbol of Christ. Christ was a willing sacrifice, a lamb, not a cross for us to hang ourselves on; or at least that's my interpretation."

I would not associate anythihng Pfefferminztee with Jesus, who is the lamb that Mercy wears around her neck.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 06, 2009, 02:41:29 pm
Well, I haven't really examined -- or tried to examine -- any symbolism in the series.  I HAVE noticed that Mercy has a profound belief in God, and she considers herself a Christian.  I don't know if Patty is trying to incorporate those elements deliberately into the story, or if they're simply surfacing because that's a part of her own life.  "Write what you know" and all that.  I do think that in Mercy, Patty has created a deeply moral character, someone of strong convictions and a bone-deep decency.  That's one of the things I like so much about her!  She has tremendous purity of heart.  I have to say that that's a nice thing to see in the urban fantasy genre, in which so many protagonists are "anti-heroes."  There's no ambiguity about Mercy.  She's just through-and-through good.

One of the things we learned in this book is that as a walker, Mercy could have been denied access to her (one would assume God-given) abilities if she had acted in a way that was not, hmmm..., moral (for lack of a better way to put it).  The walker who had been taken and held by Blackwood was still a walker, but was unable to utilize his gifts because he had killed another man unjustly.  Since Mercy CAN access her gifts, it's reasonable to assume that her behavior, over the course of her life, has passed muster with The Powers That Be.  Obviously the divinity sees and recognizes Mercy's purity of heart.

In Blood Bound, we discovered that Mercy's little lamb pendant worked against the vampires because it had her faith to back it up.  For me, this speaks again to her purity of heart.  That doesn't mean that I think her faith is better than anyone else's.  Just that her faith is there and it is profound -- profound enough to offer her protection when she needs it.  Also in Blood Bound, when she had to perform at Uncle Mikes, she chose to sing a Christmas carol, O Holy Night.  Even though her audience was not Christian, they still recognized her choice as a "power ballad" -- and not only, I'm thinking, because of the technical difficulty of the son.  But rather the words, the message...and Mercy's own belief in the message. 

Also, the run-in with Baba Yaga is significant with respect to Mercy's purity of heart.  After reading Bone Crossed, I googled Baba Yaga.  The information I came across said that typically she's not the protagonist of her story, but that she has been known to grant favors and has no power over the pure of heart.

Another testament to Mercy's purity of heart is in Bone Crossed when she chides Adam and tells him that hostage taking is for bad-guys.

Then there's the walking stick and its affection for Mercy.  We don't know why it likes her so much, but maybe it likes her because Mercy doesn't use it.  She's swung it as an actual weapon, but she herself has never tried to access or use its powers.  (In this book, the oakman used the stick, not Mercy.)

And we see how she is with others:  asking Stefan teleport Chad to safety at the end, even though it meant she'd still be in Blackwood's possession and at risk; her refusal to kill Wulfe when she found him in his lair, because at that time she just didn't have a good reason for doing so; the testified truth that Mercy is no thread to the vampires (unless they specifically come after her); her concern for Kara; her protection of Paul, of Ben, of Warren... 

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 06, 2009, 02:55:02 pm
I like how Patty incorporated Christianity into Mercy. By the way, who thinks there's a good chance for conflict with Adam there? Religion is often a big part of how people look at the world and how they react to it. But it seems like much of the time authors don't really give their characters religion.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 06, 2009, 03:00:36 pm
I found a really interesting link that explains who Lugh is in mythology - also the job interview is great! :D

http://www.godchecker.com/gotw/007_lugh.php

Okay, for the truly devoted...

Back in the mid-80s I read a trilogy by Kenneth C. Flint called the Sidhe series.  The books are Riders of the Sidhe, Champions of the Sidhe, and Master of the Sidhe.

They tell the story of Lugh of the Long Arm, from the time he was tossed into the sea and saved by Manannan Mac Lir until the end when he battled against Balor.  

http://www.mindspring.com/~pjones/kcf/rots.html

Sometimes they're hard to find...or expensive when you do find them.  But if you're interested in Celtic mythology, they're a good read and addition to your personal bibliography.  The books are small.  I tracked them down again a few years back and found the writing to be a little more stilted than I had remembered from my youth, but as a teenager, I'd loved these books.

Also, in college I took Irish Lit and read a book called Cuchulain of Muirthemne.  (It's pronounced Ku-HOO-lin of Mur-THEV-na.)  Cuchulain, I believe, was Lugh's son.

From Amazon:  "This is Lady Gregory's collation of the Cuchulain cycle. Cuchulain was a mighty warrior, 'the Hound of Ulster', the hero of 'the Red Branch', a band of elite fighters of ancient Ireland. Cuchulain is the subject of numerous tales set in pre-Christian Ireland, including the pivotal 'War for the Bull of Cuailgne'. The mythological and supernatural elements are tightly interwoven in this saga, including the ever-present Sidhe (fairies); and Celtic gods and goddesses, particularly Morrigu, the goddess of war. As for the battles, they are principally composed of single combats as hair-raising as any in the Iliad or the Mahabharata. The female characters are vivid and self-motivated. The saga is overlaid with episodes which could be echoes of ancient myths, for instance the story of the two shapeshifting swineherds. There are sections of great poetry embedded in the text, particularly the lament of Emer on Cuchulain's death." (Quote from sacred-texts.com)

So...if you guys want more Celtic mythology, have at it!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 03:06:41 pm
I like how Patty incorporated Christianity into Mercy. By the way, who thinks there's a good chance for conflict with Adam there? Religion is often a big part of how people look at the world and how they react to it. But it seems like much of the time authors don't really give their characters religion.

I agree with you there- that scene in Blood Bound - when Adam lashed out about God I think there it might crop up again. But then perhaps Mercy will help smooth that over- she seemed to help him when she pointed out holding the bad guys to ransom wasnt a good way to do things.

But this also raises the theme of the hero! Remember Uncle Mike has called Mercy a hero several times!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 03:24:24 pm
I was lurking at Charlaine Harris' site and I came across some wonderful tidbits that a lucky reader who met Patty at one of the signings- I hope they dont mind if I copied their posts- but here is the relevant bits :D

Quote
Of course she didn't say anything significant or spoilerish. She wouldn't have as much fun if she told us everything. She does have a contract for another 3 Mercy stories and she already knows where she wants to go with the stories and said she'll write more if they ask her to.

She received several questions regarding the writing of backstories for some of our favorite characters. I specifically remember saying she would never write Adam's or Zee's stories because they were just "too terrible and grim." I don't recall anybody asking specifically about Sam.

She spent some time talking about Mercy's tattoos - Mercy has only the paw print and some small tribal bands on her biceps. She's not supposed to bring that up in the books as it creates a conflict with the cover art.

If I remember anything else I'll post it for you!

Quote
Oh I forgot - she mentioned needing to set a future book in Portland (where I live) because she has a "wedding to plan." I haven't read the current book but I thought she might be referring to Mercy's family? She also specifically said that Mercy's mom would be playing small but important roles in the next few books.
http://charlaineharris.master.com/texis/master/search/showmsg.html?id=498ca97715&Catid=474477a40#m498ca97715
Thank you RedIrish - I hope you dont mind me snurching the post!



Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 06, 2009, 03:25:49 pm
There are several lines in the book that make me think the next book is going to be much darker.

p 71 "Adam was used to paying for the consequences of his choices--and sometimes the choices were hard ones."

Mercy is set up to be very pure of heart in this book (another aspect to the lamb), that I think the next book will push that. There are several times where gut levels she wishes something would happen to someone who has crossed her, but her heart/mind take over and she talks herself out of those feelings.

Her choices always involve either she gets hurt or someone else does. She always chooses herself. What is her breaking point? What happens when the choice is between who gets hurt and she isn't an option? What if it is between Adam and someone else? What if it is between Adam and Sam?

What if she has to consider a bigger picture? Now that she is the Alpha's mate, she needs to start looking at the bigger picture. She already has admitted she isn't a big picture sort of girl.

The last line was very telling. When Marsilia says she wishes she could kill Mercy, her response is "right back atcha" with no moral correction, unlike other places in the book. How much better would Mercy's life be with Marsilia dead? Will Mercy be given an opportunity to do kill Marsilia? Will she take it?

Mercy has been through a lot over the course of the series. That has to affect her in more ways than PTSD. Will she reach a breaking point where she starts to really question whether the means matter that much? Will she start to see the big picture? Will being part of the pack influence her this way?

One of the things I love most about Patty's weres is how complicated the magic surrounding them is. Now that Mercy is Adam's mate, how much will he have an influence on her and how much will she care?

I see the next book being very dark.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 06, 2009, 03:40:40 pm
Quote
Oh I forgot - she mentioned needing to set a future book in Portland (where I live) because she has a "wedding to plan." I haven't read the current book but I thought she might be referring to Mercy's family? She also specifically said that Mercy's mom would be playing small but important roles in the next few books.

Maybe her stepsister's wedding?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 06, 2009, 03:45:06 pm
I think so ;D - and RedIrish posted another tidbit- makes me think what happened during Adam's past other than his forced change and Christy.
Quote
OK - one last thing I just thought of -
the Emerald City Pack will figure into the next book Hunting Ground and so we'll see Seattle because there aren't enough hotel rooms in Bran's little town. So lots more Bran! Yahoo!

She said Zee was NOT a hero - in fact he was nasty and she didn't think she could write his back story. We'll get little tidbits about Adam's background in the future but what he endured was too terrible to be written. THAT caused her to talk about the gut-wrenching scene with Tim in Iron Kissed. It was very difficult for her to put to paper. But once she decided it needed to be written she finished it in a day.

It was really interesting to find out how much she KNOWS her characters - like they're real people she's known for years.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 06, 2009, 08:58:44 pm
Quick correction; it's not "step sister", it's half sister.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 06, 2009, 09:20:31 pm
So Patti. Is Mike's tid bit the one you know and won't share?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 06, 2009, 10:01:49 pm
Not saying no more. :-X
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 06, 2009, 11:18:27 pm
Opps, thanks for catching that Patti.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 06, 2009, 11:35:51 pm
I may just be more sensitized to it.  We about fell over after our mom died when our half sister by her showed up.

She couldn't find our mom while Momma was alive, because the half sister had been looking for her under her maiden name.

But she has (unlike the rest of us, curiously) the "Stark" nose that Momma & her sisters got.

So the half sisters were apt to have been floored when Mercy showed up on Momma's doorstep.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: caerali on February 07, 2009, 04:49:52 am
The last line was very telling. When Marsilia says she wishes she could kill Mercy, her response is "right back atcha" with no moral correction, unlike other places in the book. How much better would Mercy's life be with Marsilia dead? Will Mercy be given an opportunity to do kill Marsilia? Will she take it?

I took this scene as a bluff on Mercy's part, due to being raised by wolves.  The 'show no fear' sort of thing.  Marsilia standing alone at her door was enough opportunity if Mercy had been inclined to.  She had the high ground.  I have no doubt it will happen though.  Mercy seems to only kill those who directly threaten her life and I can't place a point where Marsilia had done so.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2009, 09:26:32 am
I always took that as an emotional rather than intentional statement.  Both want the other dead.  Marsilia won't do it because of seethe politics and rules.
Mercy won't do it, as everyone else is saying, because she's got the moral & legal issues, plus, yes, Marsilia hasn't directly attacked her or any of her loved ones/those under HER protection, such as it was - not 'is', not now, but was. 
It's, to my mind, something like the difference between conspiracy to commit murder and first degree murder.  Mercy's watching against the conspiracy turning to action, but not willing to mete out the death penalty on it as she would have done for someone - like Andre - caught in the act.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 07, 2009, 09:32:14 am
You know what might be really interesting if something does crop up between them - which side will Stefan end up. But I think that creep vampire who was Bernard's master might turn up again. I could see him planning to take over the Seethe - it looked like he kind of instigated that especially when he viewed Marsillia as being weak and getting rid of the stronger members like Andre and Stefan.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2009, 09:38:51 am
Well, as Mercy said, Marsilia's 'bug-nuts', and even paying attention again, not up to date on vampire politics world wide.  I think she's painting herself into a corner, reacting rather than acting, because she doesn't know what else is going on, and the fast pace of the modern world is beyond her grasp


Additionally, I think the fact that some of the fae have come out, and the werewolves now, puts her in a delicate position.  I really don't think it's going to be long until someone with a big enough 'voice'/power to be heard pipes up with "If fae & werewolves exist, vampires probably do to; what are we going to do about it/them?"
And then the fat will be in the fire.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 07, 2009, 10:20:06 am
Marsila is a enigma to me, even after reading it twice I can't tell if she really planned all that, or if a lot of it was coincidence she said she did just to make herself look good. Making the best of a bad situation.

I also don't see Mercy randomly killing Marsila for simple spite factor.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 07, 2009, 10:43:11 am
The thing about the line about Marsilia is it's the last line. Why did Patty choose to end the book that way? It didn't bring the focus back to her relationship with Adam or Sam. It didn't bring it back to anything to do with the pack. The line could have been followed with something, but it wasn't. What was the reason the meeting even took place? We already knew what was in the letter.  The meeting didn't have to be written. Then we would have been left with Mercy reconnecting with Adam as the ending.

Unless we look at the book thematically. Marsilia's speech brings us back to the theme of sacrifice, but it is Marsilia making the speech about Stefan. Thematically it works, but the last part of the book is usually about the hero, so how does that last passage relate to Mercy?

Writing my own novel has made me sensitive to things like first and last lines of chapters and books and the order things are presented. Those are things writers spend a great deal of time on. When the perfect line lets itself be knows, bells go off. Even if the writer doesn't know why they are, they do. What made bells go off about that line?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: franken_stein on February 07, 2009, 07:16:05 pm
Aghhh, what a great - and also horrible - time for me to get into this series! I JUST discovered Patty's books this past month and I've been going through them as fast as I could. I was excited to find out that a new one was just about to be released, and I ended up buying Bone Crossed when I was almost done with Iron Kissed. Then as SOON as I finished IK, I went straight into BC. (That was awesome, because it picked up right where IK left off!) So yeah, I read all four books without much pause in between, because they were that good. Aughh! But NOW what am I going to do?!

I'm going to give this thread a more careful read, but I'm happy to see there are others who loved Stefan in this book too! He's been one of my favorite characters since book 1 and I was feeling a little bit like he doesn't get enough love. I love Mercy, Adam, Sam, Warren, Kyle... but I want more Stefan!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 07, 2009, 07:21:32 pm
What are you going to do now? Read Alpha and Omega and Cry Wolf of course!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 07, 2009, 07:22:19 pm
Welcome to the boards franken_stein! We all try to cope by speculating like crazy on the next books or discussing the published ones. We also play any number of games and push other authors on unsuspecting (or not) newbies. So watch out!  :o
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: franken_stein on February 07, 2009, 07:25:50 pm
Welcome to the boards franken_stein! We all try to cope by speculating like crazy on the next books or discussing the published ones. We also play any number of games and push other authors on unsuspecting (or not) newbies. So watch out!  :o

Aw, thanks for the welcome! I actually made an intro post a couple of weeks ago but it was wiped when there was the server glitch, so this is kind of a newish account.

Oh, and Zealith - I certainly will move on to Cry Wolf now! I've been meaning to, I was going to get to it as soon as IK was done but I didn't finish it before BC came out.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 07, 2009, 07:39:24 pm
After your done Cry Wolf, there is always Patty's other books! Dragon's Bones and Dragon's Blood, Raven's Shadow and Raven's Strike!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2009, 07:41:57 pm
On topic; I noticed that in the ARC, Charles was referred to as "Samuel's oldest son".
Well, Samuel is his brother, as we know, and that got fixed, but it's still glitched in this edition; it now says "Samuel's OLDER brother" or "Bran's OLDEST son", and we know that Samuel is a good - millennium older than Charles.

And "When Demons Walk" "Steal the Dragon" and "Hob's Bargain".
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 07, 2009, 07:59:13 pm
Even though I read it twice I still completely missed that! The rest of you are paying a lot more attention then me.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2009, 08:07:40 pm
I had more time to see it in - at least in the early version - so I noticed the partial repair in the real version.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Teagan on February 07, 2009, 09:40:59 pm
YAY! I Finally got it, and I must say I enjoyed it very much. I haven't done the customary second read through, but I realized something caught my attention while I was reading.... Since when has Samuel been Bran's second? I thought he was Bran's third? That's what his ID card says.  Mercy mentions it on pg 34, not too far from the top.

And if someone's brought it up before sorry for making you guys repeat yourselves ^^;
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: caerali on February 08, 2009, 04:05:38 am
Well the part with Samuel being his second -- I don't know if that was an error -- or maybe he really was second until he left.  It might explain why Charles has such a sour stomach about some of his duties in Cry Wolf.  He's not become accustomed to his roll yet.  We might have to put that up for the next chat session or in an ask patty.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 08, 2009, 06:07:36 am
Just looking for a topic on the forum to say hi, as of yet I haven’t found  it so I might as say it here “hi” *waves*, while I’m reading through the discussions.  BC was awesome. The characters have grown and developed and are now well established. And I love Stefan, I feel sorry for him in this - he was used and I didn’t like it. I want to see more of him in the future. He’ll go back to Marsilia, but I hope he doesn’t make it easy for her.

On topic; I noticed that in the ARC, Charles was referred to as "Samuel's oldest son".
Well, Samuel is his brother, as we know, and that got fixed, but it's still glitched in this edition; it now says "Samuel's OLDER brother" or "Bran's OLDEST son", and we know that Samuel is a good - millennium older than Charles.

I did notice this when I was reading through BC. I stumbled past it then doubled back thinking that’s not right. Maybe it was a mistake but then again Mercy’s grown up believing Charles was the oldest of the brothers. Old habits die hard and all.

but I realized something caught my attention while I was reading.... Since when has Samuel been Bran's second? I thought he was Bran's third? That's what his ID card says.  Mercy mentions it on pg 34, not too far from the top.

I have always thought that Samuel was the third as well. That Charles has been second for a lot longer than the time Samuel disappeared anyway. Like in MC where Mercy lists the powerful wolves. Bran one. Charles two. Samuel Three. Adam four. You remember she memorised this with her foster father. Perhaps Charles became second when he became the pack assassin.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: caerali on February 08, 2009, 06:10:54 am
Wow, you have a better memory then I do!  LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 08, 2009, 06:17:05 am
Wow, you have a better memory then I do!  LOL

Yeah, I have a habit of picking up and retaining a lot of useless information that would not help me if my life depended on it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 08, 2009, 09:34:25 am
The thing about the line about Marsilia is it's the last line. Why did Patty choose to end the book that way? It didn't bring the focus back to her relationship with Adam or Sam. It didn't bring it back to anything to do with the pack. The line could have been followed with something, but it wasn't. What was the reason the meeting even took place? We already knew what was in the letter.  The meeting didn't have to be written. Then we would have been left with Mercy reconnecting with Adam as the ending.

Unless we look at the book thematically. Marsilia's speech brings us back to the theme of sacrifice, but it is Marsilia making the speech about Stefan. Thematically it works, but the last part of the book is usually about the hero, so how does that last passage relate to Mercy?

Writing my own novel has made me sensitive to things like first and last lines of chapters and books and the order things are presented. Those are things writers spend a great deal of time on. When the perfect line lets itself be knows, bells go off. Even if the writer doesn't know why they are, they do. What made bells go off about that line?


Ohhh that is a very interesting point!
At the end of MC - Mercy arranges to meet up with Stefan and the next book it deals with the vamps and Stefan.
At the end of BB - Mercy gets the pic of Adam and in IK she decides to choose Adam. This also  suggest that Mercy has the ability to strengthen ghosts abilities/prescence which happens in BC.

And the end of of IK you have the working through the issues with Adam - but I think that ending in BC will throw more of a twist at Mercy and Marsilia. Although they may both wish each other dead. They both have stated that they would like each other in different circumstances. And I dont think being a walker and a vampire is the main cause but its Stefan. Mercy would have liked Marsillia if not for the fact that shes  bug crazy and used Stefan in the way she did. And Marisillia would have liked Mercy if Stefan didnt have feelings for her - hes the only one that is actually stopping them both from harming each other because if he wasnt in the picture then Marsillia would have probably attacked Mercy outright even if she didnt have ties with the wolves.

I think the other vampire - Bernard's master will definitely crop again and you know that saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend what if Mercy and Marsillia have to team up again just in case he has another sneaky plan to take over the Seethe?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Teagan on February 08, 2009, 09:44:23 am
What a great memory you have Pendel! I completely forgot that scene and even then was questioning my memory about Samuel.  I guess I could mosey on over to the ask Patti section and maybe she'll clarify.

And I think Charles has been the assassin for a while, not just recently. I always thought he was sour about it because before he didn't really majorly care what happened to him, whereas now he has Anna and he wants to be able o spend lots of time with her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 08, 2009, 01:41:47 pm
Just looking for a topic on the forum to say hi, as of yet I haven’t found  it so I might as say it here “hi” *waves*, while I’m reading through the discussions.  BC was awesome. The characters have grown and developed and are now well established. And I love Stefan, I feel sorry for him in this - he was used and I didn’t like it. I want to see more of him in the future. He’ll go back to Marsilia, but I hope he doesn’t make it easy for her.

On topic; I noticed that in the ARC, Charles was referred to as "Samuel's oldest son".
Well, Samuel is his brother, as we know, and that got fixed, but it's still glitched in this edition; it now says "Samuel's OLDER brother" or "Bran's OLDEST son", and we know that Samuel is a good - millennium older than Charles.

I did notice this when I was reading through BC. I stumbled past it then doubled back thinking that’s not right. Maybe it was a mistake but then again Mercy’s grown up believing Charles was the oldest of the brothers. Old habits die hard and all.

but I realized something caught my attention while I was reading.... Since when has Samuel been Bran's second? I thought he was Bran's third? That's what his ID card says.  Mercy mentions it on pg 34, not too far from the top.

I have always thought that Samuel was the third as well. That Charles has been second for a lot longer than the time Samuel disappeared anyway. Like in MC where Mercy lists the powerful wolves. Bran one. Charles two. Samuel Three. Adam four. You remember she memorised this with her foster father. Perhaps Charles became second when he became the pack assassin.

Say "hi" here:  http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?board=18.0

I think this reference was to level of dominance, not to pack position.  Sam bowed out of the pack position, but he's still more dominant than Charles is; just like Warren is really more dominant than Darryl, but acts as third rather than second, for the good of the pack.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mimi on February 08, 2009, 01:47:54 pm
Hi Patty,

WOW!  Bone Crossed was great.  I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially the parts where Mercy came into the pack and she and Adam are flushing out their relationship.  They're not overly sappy, but they obviously care very deeply for each other.  Terrific characters in another terrific story.

I do have a question, though.  I was really surprised(confused)  that Stefan's flock survived.  I mean, isn't it more in character for Marsilia to have really killed them all?  Or, is this integral to a future plot line?  It just struck me as being a bit out of the blue, that's all. 

Anyway, thanks again, and I'm really looking forward to the next Charles and Anna book!

Moved from "Ask Patty" to avoid spoilers for those who haven't read the book yet.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 08, 2009, 02:01:37 pm
I think the other vampire - Bernard's master will definitely crop again and you know that saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend what if Mercy and Marsillia have to team up again just in case he has another sneaky plan to take over the Seethe?

I can very easily see this happening. One thing this book did was expand Mercy's universe in many ways. We already knew there are other fae, but we see several more, one of who is connected to wolves. We already  knew there are vamps outside of Marsilia's seethe, but this is the first time we see any. We learn more about pack and vamp magic. I don't think Patty can shrink the universe. From here on out, creatures outside of Mercy's inner circle have to play important roles and that universe has to keep expanding, like a Big Bang. This is one thing I love about UF.

I had an evil idea. What would be worse and more dramatic than Mercy helping Marsilia? If Mercy has to bond with Marsilia, maybe to give Marsilia the strength to beat Bernard's master. 1) There's the whole Mercy not trusting Marsilia, so bonding will really suck 2) Marsilia is more powerful than Stefan. Just because he isn't powerful enough for the bond to affect the entire pack through Mercy's bond with Adam, doesn't mean she isn't. That could  be the very reason she needs to bond. Perhaps the pack can strengthen her. 3) Someone will have to kill Marsilia to end it, that someone being the one creature who knows her daytime resting spot.

There are lots of things set up in BC. The snow elf might even make another appearance, to counter Marsilia's control of the pack. The most significant magic in this book is the idea of a vampire bonding. In the beginning, Adam and the other wolves feed Stefan so he can't bond with Mercy.

I'm thinking a lot about Bran's appearance and what he says. He offers to show Mercy how to break the bond with Adam. Her response, "not yet." That's got to come back and bite her on the ass. If she knew how, she could sever the tie before Marsilia bonds with her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 08, 2009, 02:09:30 pm

I think this reference was to level of dominance, not to pack position.  Sam bowed out of the pack position, but he's still more dominant than Charles is; just like Warren is really more dominant than Darryl, but acts as third rather than second, for the good of the pack.

When it comes to Samuel's status, I think we have to consider his temperament. In CW Bran doesn't send him out because he's a healer, not a killer. Even though Charles is hurt and Bran knows Samuel can do the job, Bran also worries about what it would do to Samuel.

When it comes to Charles, I think we have to consider his ability with magic. Charles is an interesting wolf, being able to change effortlessly and do magic, even when out of his mind with silver poisoning. Samuel's dominance over Charles could be one of respect and nothing to do with actual power. It could also have to do with how Charles views brother wolf.

I would hate to see what would happen if Mercy and/or Anna were ever in danger and Samuel and Charles had to fight. Hopefully, Bran would be nearby and box them both in the ears.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 08, 2009, 02:29:58 pm
Lunasea, what great ideas you come up with!  I wanted to let it rest, but I'd forget what I was going to say, so I had to open a second tab.  :D  I have to have your whole reply in front of me so I can quote and argue/discuss with you.
Let's see. 
First:

Quote
We already  knew there are vamps outside of Marsilia's seethe, but this is the first time we see any.
Basically true, but not 100%.  Consider the sorcerer vamp from Blood Bound.  While Andre may have made him, he wasn't really part of the seethe.

Quote
I don't think Patty can shrink the universe. From here on out, creatures outside of Mercy's inner circle have to play important roles and that universe has to keep expanding, like a Big Bang. This is one thing I love about UF.

Yes!  I'm with you here!

Quote
Just because he isn't powerful enough for the bond to affect the entire pack through Mercy's bond with Adam, doesn't mean she isn't.

I have to disagree with you here.  I don't think there could be a vampire strong enough to fight against and beat ALL the wolves in the pack at once, which is clearly stated as the reason vamps don't take Alphas; they can't.

Quote
Someone will have to kill Marsilia to end it, that someone being the one creature who knows her daytime resting spot.
This would, in my opinion be best, but it isn't the only possibility.  Marsilia would most likely not want to retain the bond; she knows how to end it, and so does Wulfe.  Even just going back to Stephan for blood exchange would break it again.

Quote
In the beginning, Adam and the other wolves feed Stefan so he can't bond with Mercy.

Not entirely correct.  There are several reasons they feed him, and (maybe because my imagination is lacking in this area) that one never occurred to me.  I thought the reasons were
1. to keep him from draining her.
2. to keep him from hating himself after.
3. to pay him back for his help with the demon ridden vamp.
4. to get more information from him.
5. to retain him as a sometime ally.
maybe even
6. because he's a friend of Mercy's.

And you may have some real 'dang, did she see that coming!?' points in your last paragraph.  Marsilia or someone else, I think you're right that the 'not now' is going to bite her & the pack, bigtime.

Thank you for making my brain work!  :-*
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 08, 2009, 03:16:36 pm
Quote
In the beginning, Adam and the other wolves feed Stefan so he can't bond with Mercy.

Not entirely correct.  There are several reasons they feed him, and (maybe because my imagination is lacking in this area) that one never occurred to me.  I thought the reasons were
1. to keep him from draining her.
2. to keep him from hating himself after.
3. to pay him back for his help with the demon ridden vamp.
4. to get more information from him.
5. to retain him as a sometime ally.
maybe even
6. because he's a friend of Mercy's.

page 14-15
"I should have tried to stop Adam--I'd fed Stefan before without any ill effects that I knew of, and I was pretty sure that Stefan cared whether I lived or died. I wasn't so sure how he felt about Adam. But I remember Stefan telling me that there "shouldn't" be any problems because it had only been once, and I'd met a few of Stefan's band of sheep--the people who served as his breakfast, dinner, and lunch. They were completely devoted to him. Don't get me wrong, he's a great guy for a vampire--but I somehow doubted that those young people, mostly women, could live together devoted to one man without some sort of vampire meserism at work. And I'd sort of had my fill of magical compulsion for the year."

Magical compulsion is an important thread running through the series and I can't see it magically disappearing. It will come back into play, even in regards to the pack. That was why Mercy was reluctant to bond with Adam in the first place.

When something is mentioned as impossible or really hard, like a vamp bonding with an alpha, it tends to happen somewhere down the line. We've already seen a vamp who wasn't affected by the sun (brilliant how Patty did that). We've seen a non-wolf bond with an alpha. When Mercy killed Tim, that was a loophole in the impossible. Figuring out ways to explain the impossible is one of the fun things about writing.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 08, 2009, 03:24:09 pm
Quite true!  That's something that Lois McMaster Bujold does well, and it's why Patty said, a while back, that she wants to grow up (as a writer) to be LMB.
Chasing people up 'impossible' trees, and then sawing at the branches, is one of her strengths.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 08, 2009, 03:29:09 pm
You know I bet Mercy's Coyotiness is also going to be a factor in all the bond magic as well. She is a being that attracts chaos - and if a vampire or another magical being tries to take advantage of the pack bonds, I bet they will get a nasty surprise. Blackwood thought he would get another puppet - makes me wonder what shape the other walker was as well. Patty did say not all Walkers are coyotes- they can be elk/deer and even wolf!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 08, 2009, 03:48:18 pm
Also, as I understand it - Yote, help me out here - Coyotes aren't pack animals.  Loners or pairs bringing up cubs and then drifting apart.  That could help make Mercy resistant to letting anyone else link into the pack through her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: darklightsun on February 08, 2009, 04:56:27 pm
I do have a question, though.  I was really surprised(confused)  that Stefan's flock survived.  I mean, isn't it more in character for Marsilia to have really killed them all?  Or, is this integral to a future plot line?  It just struck me as being a bit out of the blue, that's all. 

I do not want to assume that I know Patricia's plans for Marsilia, Stefan or his flock, but I believe that no matter how evil Marsilia is Stefan is truely the only being that she loves (outside of Andre).

This is totally speculation on my part, but I can see a point where Marsilia will see her own insanity, and passes the seethe to Stefan.

I just want to know who Bernard's creator is, and how he will effect the future of Mercy's friends.

DLS
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lunasea on February 08, 2009, 04:59:57 pm
Two things to add to the discussion.

1) page 234 Mercy tells everyone to wait because "I'm in the middle of a revelation." Darryl teases her "We'll have to wait for her revelation. We have a prophet for our Alpha's mate." Nice throw away line, but there are no such thing in well written books like Patty's. That revelation about what blocks her from giving herself to others will play an important role in her future and probably the pack's as well. In that same passage, part of her revelations "that meant he protected me from the vampires...and I protected him from what problems I could." What if this breaks down, Adam can't protect Mercy from vamps and she causes problems rather than protects him?

2) We know when Mercy was open to Adam, the mate bond settled in and she was connected to the pack bonds. This was so strong it overwhelmed four people. Darryl and Warren were able to step in and "tuck you back into your own skin." This does not bode well for the bonds to be weaker than normal. As Samuel said "The trick is to join with the pack and with Adam--without losing yourself to them. It's instinctual for the werewolves, but I expect you are going to have to work on it." I'm sure that working on will factor heavy in the next book.

Chaos could work for Marsilia or anyone who tries to take advantage of Mercy's bond with Adam. You can't predict who will get the nasty surprise. That's the nature of chaos.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 08, 2009, 09:05:19 pm
She is willing to sacrifice herself for someone she loves and so did He. As such there is bound to be common themes. So the similarities are going to happen.
Just my two cents on the discussion :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: DeDanann on February 09, 2009, 06:40:25 pm
I know a little about Celtic Mythology, in case anyone's intrigued about Lugh and the spear.  If not, just skip on past.... ;)

The web page with info about Lugh was humorous and interesting...but they missed a detail at the end.  Lugh actually wasn't accepted into the group because he was a great warrior...he was accepted because he was multi-talented.  When he asked to be admitted, they asked him what skills he could bring to the table.  Every time he mentioned a skill, they said, "That's great, but we already have someone who does that."  So at the end, Lugh says "Well, but do you have someone who is master of all of those skills at the same time?"  And they had to admit they didn't have anyone like that.  So he wasn't admitted for being any one thing, but for being all of those things combined.  That's why he's known in the mythology as Lugh Samildanach, which means something like "master of all the arts" or "multi-talented".

The other interesting thing about him is that he is the one who killed Balor of the Evil Eye in the last great battle between the Tuatha De Danann and the Fomorians, and he did it by casting a spear at Balor's eye.  He had a great magical spear called the Gae Bolga (if I remember right), but I'm not sure whether he made it himself.  In fact, I sort of doubt it because I think it was one of the main four ancient treasures of the Tuatha De Danann, which they brought with them from the four cities they migrated from when they moved to Ireland.  It's also known as the Spear of Lugh.

Lugh was a half-blood, the son of Balor's daughter Ethne, and Cian, a man of the Tuatha De Danann.  It was Lugh who helped the Tuatha De Danann come up with their battle plans so they could free themselves from Fomorian oppression.  There's a bit more about the events that actually sparked off the rebellion...but that's Another Story.

And now back to your regularly scheduled BC thread.  ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 09, 2009, 06:51:23 pm
Thanks for the info dump. :) Now I know more than I did.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Morgaine0000 on February 09, 2009, 09:34:22 pm

I do have a question, though.  I was really surprised(confused)  that Stefan's flock survived.  I mean, isn't it more in character for Marsilia to have really killed them all?  Or, is this integral to a future plot line?  It just struck me as being a bit out of the blue, that's all. 


I didn't think it was out of character or out of the blue, because she made it pretty clear that she did it to manipulate Stefan.   She wanted him to come back to her eventually.   I also thought it was kind of foreshadowed when Stefan told Mercy that Marsilia and Wulfe could break the connection between a vampire and his slaves.   

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 09, 2009, 09:45:58 pm
Yeah, and in a weird way, I think it's almost MORE sadistic that she didn't kill them, but just tortured him for no reason other than to meet her own ends. b-tch. >:D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Talyn on February 09, 2009, 10:02:49 pm
So, if the Oakmen was correct and the stick was made by Lugh... I wonder what else it can do?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 10, 2009, 09:13:35 am
It looks like it can change to fit into what it needs to be- Uncle Mike even said it although at the time it didnt make sense lol

But when Mercy was being raped - I think it helped her gain perspective and jog her out of the spell of the cup. With Fideal it helped to beat him back until Zee arrived and the spear against Blackwood!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 10, 2009, 10:22:38 am
I can understand why she didn't kill them. I suppose she didn't want to push him away completely but wanted an avenue open for his return to the seethe. Anyway like darklightsun said she loves him.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 10, 2009, 10:36:46 am
I noticed an interesting titbit...

Mercy and Adam have been to see Pirates of Penzance twice now! I wonder if anyone else spotted it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 10, 2009, 10:47:23 am
I think that was an injoke for the bone crossed thing :D- when the title was first known we speculated that it involved zombie pirates lol
In a way there was zombies and pirates ;D  But I think Mercy and Adam must be fans of the musical!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 10, 2009, 10:58:36 am
Lol. Zombie pirates now that would have been interesting, after more vampire ghosts anything is possible.

On the topic of zombies - what do you suppose that Blackwood thought Amber had become exactly? Ghoul?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 10, 2009, 11:14:40 am
I think she was kind of a ghoul - but arent ghouls more like zombies.  I think Blackwood found a way to hold back the spirit from crossing over. I have theory that walkers are able to travel different realms- Mercy found herself in the Fae realm she didnt just sense it or saw it. What if she can do a similar thing in the dreamworld and even the borders between life and death.

And if Walkers can control ghosts- they can stop them from crossing over?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 10, 2009, 11:36:47 am
I believe ghouls eat human flesh, beyond brainzzz! and are supernatural but not dead themselves, as zombies are.  Where's a dictionary?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 10, 2009, 11:37:58 am
She doesn't care about them herself but knows that Stephan does, so yes, it was for her own ends; this is a peace offering to him that she thought up ahead.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on February 10, 2009, 12:25:24 pm
Just finished the book and absolutely loved it! Although I enjoyed BB and IK, MC was still my favourite until now, but now I'm not so sure.

I thought it treated Mercy's recovery really believably and I loved Mercy and Adam's getting together - there were so many ways that could have been a let down with such a long build up, but I thought it was perfect.

I found it very sad that the first walker Mercy hears about other than herself (and her deceased father) is dead - so she knows now there was at least one other out there, but he's gone.

I'd like to know too what caused Mercy's fast healing - pack link or blood transfer, and if the pack is it permanent and what other changes in herself might she find - other were traits?

I liked the tree appearing outside her window. I'm not sure it's the oakman, my feeling is it's just his way of saying thanks and perhaps putting a marker of some sort on her, a 'this person helped me' type thing.

Very glad that Blackwood is dead, very scary that he'd watched her from childdhood - ug. And thinking of ug, very creepy vampire with the bloody hands too, I wonder if he'll be back and what his story was (apart from being a thoroughly nasty sort of person I expect).

I guess that nasty Lee from the dojo might turn up again too, he seems the type to hold a grudge.

And a final one - I wonder if Mercy will have any trouble from the bones having been on her door for a few days? Some people must have seen them there before they were taken off. I loved Mercy's discussion of it with Tony too - my favourite quote from the book:-

"Our green painter had a limited vocabulary and occasionally mixed up a professional working woman with a garden implement."  :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on February 10, 2009, 03:09:41 pm

I liked the tree appearing outside her window. I'm not sure it's the oakman, my feeling is it's just his way of saying thanks and perhaps putting a marker of some sort on her, a 'this person helped me' type thing.


I wonder if the tree is kinda like giving out a phone number. The oakman said the oak spoke to him, maybe this oak will tell him about Mercy so he can keep an eye on her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 10, 2009, 04:06:06 pm
That feels more likely to me than the oak being the oakman.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on February 10, 2009, 04:55:25 pm
the oakman has been stuck in one place for too long. I suspect he has  a desire to travel.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 10, 2009, 05:03:16 pm
the oakman has been stuck in one place for too long. I suspect he has  a desire to travel.
I'm not so sure. I think he wuld want to find a secure place and take the time to heal before he is ready to face the world again.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: gryphon340 on February 10, 2009, 05:14:48 pm
wonder if the new oak tree is there as gift, but what does do for the fae, it is a spy for the Grey lords? Wonder what the trip to New Mexico will be like willit be part of the new Novel or wiil it be a short story?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 10, 2009, 08:00:32 pm
1.  What trip to New Mexico?
2.  Trees aren't ordinarily nomadic, so I can see him planting himself somewhere.  There's plenty of sunlight in Eastern Washington, free breeze, and I think he's pretty sure Mercy would see to it that he got water, so it might well be him.
3.  If the Gray Lords did nothing for him in most of a century, what makes you think they'll notice he's free, let alone set him spying for them?  I think he's taking refuge with Mercy & Lugh's walking stick.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 10, 2009, 08:25:38 pm
She wanted to go to New Mexico to tell her old roomate about Amber's death.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 10, 2009, 08:28:06 pm
I just had a wicked thought! What if the other roomate is the witch in witch's brew?  :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on February 11, 2009, 05:06:29 am
'scuse me for jumping in after only reading the first page (I take the time to read the rest later, promised):

Regarding Stefan's love for Mercy, I found the end quite telling, it seems that Marsillia does share more than a passing affection for her soldier, she was going almost soft in her concern over him.
I did wonder with Stefan how much is love for Mercy and how much is just a strict personal honor code he follows.

The phone call with Adam, about only the bad guys taking hostages, made me wonder what Adams was reacting to in that moment, his past as a werewolf or events from his past in the Army?
He certainly did, or at least did witness, things that shook his view of the world and himself and forced him to reevaluate his concepts of good guys and bad guys I'd say.

I loved Ymir, the Snowelf. 'twas funny. :D

What I didn't like was the scene between Bran, Samuel and Mercy.
I felt there was to much Show&Tell going on to keep me immersed in the story, I would have liked that part a bit subtler.

The highlight of the book is certainly Adam's & Mercy's tender moment, great romance writing that gave you this warm tingling feeling and I simply adored how this feeling by way of extention reverberated in the scene between Kyle and Warren. They are a cute pair.

Where the book took me by surprise was with Amber's death, I never particularly warmed to her during reading the book but when she appeared as a Zombie I felt actually sad for her.
Funny how a character can grow on you.

Oh, and the usual critique: Me want more Jesse!


I am now racking my brain going over all the long lived uncharismatic females we've seen in the books trying to match one up with Sam. So far coming up with Zilch! I keep thinking of all the female vampires!
To bad it isn't Marsilia, then he could bitch Stefan in the future. :D


One of the things we learned in this book is that as a walker, Mercy could have been denied access to her (one would assume God-given) abilities if she had acted in a way that was not, hmmm..., moral (for lack of a better way to put it).  The walker who had been taken and held by Blackwood was still a walker, but was unable to utilize his gifts because he had killed another man unjustly.  Since Mercy CAN access her gifts, it's reasonable to assume that her behavior, over the course of her life, has passed muster with The Powers That Be.  Obviously the divinity sees and recognizes Mercy's purity of heart.
I found it more noteworthy that Blackwood points out that for him these powers still worked, so that power is not some God given gift but something that comes from within and is angled on your belief in yourself and your actions.


The thing about the line about Marsilia is it's the last line. Why did Patty choose to end the book that way? It didn't bring the focus back to her relationship with Adam or Sam. It didn't bring it back to anything to do with the pack. The line could have been followed with something, but it wasn't. What was the reason the meeting even took place? We already knew what was in the letter.  The meeting didn't have to be written. Then we would have been left with Mercy reconnecting with Adam as the ending.
That last line did remind of the way (sorry for the OT comparision) a Punisher Graphic novel ended, with the Punisher saying to himself and a rape victim that died in revenge spree:
"I wish I could kill them all for you."
The line sums up the Punisher and his motivation perfectly.

Back On-Topic: Mercy is speaking from a point where Marsilia did hurt one of Mercy's extended family in the worst way possible, and she knows that Stephan can't kill Marsilia, he would much rather die if it came to that.
So it most probably is just a wish statement, it is just a "I would kill you if I could".
Though we know that Mercy is not willing to kill unprovoked, and not only for fear to lose her abilities, and just as the Punisher must accept that he can't stop evil from happening, Mercy is simply anknowledging to herself what she wishes for but can't possibly accomplish.


I believe ghouls eat human flesh, beyond brainzzz! and are supernatural but not dead themselves, as zombies are.  Where's a dictionary?
Not quite sure but I thing Ghouls are regularly referred to as corpse eaters, Zombies are classic, magically created work slaves, so Amber was certainly closer to being a Zombie than to being a Ghoul, IMO.


I liked the tree appearing outside her window. I'm not sure it's the oakman, my feeling is it's just his way of saying thanks and perhaps putting a marker of some sort on her, a 'this person helped me' type thing.
Thought the same. :)

Quote
Very glad that Blackwood is dead, very scary that he'd watched her from childdhood - ug. And thinking of ug, very creepy vampire with the bloody hands too, I wonder if he'll be back and what his story was (apart from being a thoroughly nasty sort of person I expect).
I so had Viktor from Underworld before my minds eye when he stood up. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 11, 2009, 04:39:09 pm

One of the things we learned in this book is that as a walker, Mercy could have been denied access to her (one would assume God-given) abilities if she had acted in a way that was not, hmmm..., moral (for lack of a better way to put it).  The walker who had been taken and held by Blackwood was still a walker, but was unable to utilize his gifts because he had killed another man unjustly.  Since Mercy CAN access her gifts, it's reasonable to assume that her behavior, over the course of her life, has passed muster with The Powers That Be.  Obviously the divinity sees and recognizes Mercy's purity of heart.
I found it more noteworthy that Blackwood points out that for him these powers still worked, so that power is not some God given gift but something that comes from within and is angled on your belief in yourself and your actions.

Ah, the powers themselves are inharent. But that doesn't mean he could use them. Blackwood could use any inharent magic, presumably, if the Indian hadn't trained his powers Blackwood would have still been able to use them. So it may be karma, it may just be subconcous guilt.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mimi on February 11, 2009, 05:08:49 pm
Yeah, and in a weird way, I think it's almost MORE sadistic that she didn't kill them, but just tortured him for no reason other than to meet her own ends. b-tch. >:D

Yes, I thought so, too.  But, I also would not have put it past her to actually kill them all.  And, I guess from the way I've interpreted her character I took it at face value that they had all died since Stefan's connection had been severed.  I know she's so sure of Stefan that she felt she could do this and he still wouldn't turn away from her, but I'm not so sure it worked.  He certainly didn't seem very happy to see her when she showed up at Mercy's door.  It's going to be very interesting to see just how loyal he is in the next book.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 12, 2009, 05:15:48 pm
I tend to agree with the reason being subconcious guilt.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 12, 2009, 05:21:38 pm
I think his loyalty was already tested to it's outer limits and he stayed loyal. He also said he understood Marsillia's reasons, so he went back instead of just remaining neutral. In a way, I think this episode will be more of a challenge for the core of decency he still has. It might just confirm to him that he is doomed to be a monster, and cannot ever escape that fate. Hopefully Mercy can help him through that.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: SiFiFan on February 12, 2009, 09:25:12 pm
Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

1) I'm glad there will be someone for Samuel and that we haven't met her yet. She will have to be someone special to get Mercy's stamp of approval. (Not that Sam needs her approval). :)

2) Regarding the quick healing Mercy experienced after being beat by Blackwood. I attributed it to the lingering healing effects of drinking from the fae goblet. It never occurred to me that the pack bond or the blood exchange had anything to do with it. (Hmmm more for me to ponder).

3) I agree, I think the oak tree is a gift from oakman and a statement that Mercy is a friend to the fae.

Finally, like most everyone else I want more and I want it now!! Dang, I hate having to wait another year for the story to continue...

SiFiFan
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 12, 2009, 09:32:15 pm
On #2, one problem;  The damage the Fideal did has not healed.  Stitches, remember?  And the bruising she anticipated from the incident in the dojo.
Plus the hickeys Blackwood put on her at Amber's house.
Nope.  Don't think so!  Nice try, though.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ElefiNecol on February 12, 2009, 09:34:43 pm
I guess I attributed it to the vampire feeding since not long before she was commenting on the vampire feeding having other effects, i.e. making her stronger.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: chickidee04 on February 12, 2009, 09:56:08 pm
I just finished the book today and I have to say I was very pleased with the way Marsilia's plot unfolded. The reasons for her actions were explained to the reader in a way that was easy to understand without being a bad-guy monologue. And despite Marsilia being a nut bag, she's still a vamp, and I think everything worked out the way she wanted it to, except that Stephan didn't come running back to her.

About Stephan, I've been thinking about his character and how he several times went out of his way to show Mercy what a "monster" he is, and I think he's trying to convince himself as much as her. Sure, he's known as the Soldier, he's very old and very powerful, but I think he fears he's become a softie. He obviously cares about his sheep and Mercy, and this surely is seen as a weakness to the other vampires, and possibly even making him question himself. He told her repeatedly that he would have killed her if Adam hadn't been there when Marsilia dropped him in her trailer, but to me it sounds like he was trying to convince himself that he's still a big scawy vampire who doesn't let his feelings cloud his judgment. He needs to believe that he would have killed her without hesitation. The fact that he was so easily manipulated by Marsilia (who is a few cards short of a full deck) probably indicates to him that he's losing his touch, which makes him very vulnerable to attack from other vampires. He's probably afraid for his (un)life.

I'm not usually a fan of spoilers, but I must say I am glad there is a woman for Sam who hasn't been introduced yet, because for one horrifying moment I thought he might take notice of Jesse.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on February 13, 2009, 02:48:34 am
I'm quite frankly amazed (and scared) how a easy a little fooling around, and harmless flirting can put even a good-guy in a bad light with you gals. :o

You know, men (and I guess werewolves) do think, very occassionally, of something else, too. ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on February 13, 2009, 06:41:28 am
Actually, I'm a little scared by it, too, Gerd, and I am one of 'you gals'.  Especially since I didn't see any flirting in that scene at all. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 13, 2009, 06:47:23 am
Me either- I saw it as brotherly/sisterly joshing, I think its because Sam hasnt got anyone to be matched up with and it was a fun scene - hopefully we will get to meet and speculate about Sam's mate in a later book. And I bet it will be several candidates :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 13, 2009, 08:04:14 am
I'm with Has and Ellyll, I saw nothing wrong in that scene...
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ElefiNecol on February 13, 2009, 08:06:50 am
Yeah, me too...  Sam is such a white picket fence kinda guy.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Howl~n~Growl on February 13, 2009, 09:15:16 am
I must have missed something, cuz I didn't see anything wrong either, just Sam being Sam...was there supposed to be flirting there? If so I completly missed it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: chickidee04 on February 13, 2009, 09:17:12 am
I didn't read anything into that scene, either. It was just something that occurred to me while musing about how I'd like to see more of Jesse, and how I'd like to see happiness for Sam.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Howl~n~Growl on February 13, 2009, 10:00:12 am
oh, ok.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on February 13, 2009, 10:07:31 am
Ah, I see.
Well, I think the idea of Sam hiting on Mercy was creepy enough if you follow it through but far as I recall nothing actually happened so we can count that as a lapse.
But hitting on Jesse would be nothing short of suizide (not to mention immoral). :D

Though, I guess it becomes more difficult to build out sound morals as immortal among mortals.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: SiFiFan on February 13, 2009, 12:06:15 pm
Question - On page 295 the oakman tells Mercy that (the fairy staff) "..follows you because it owes you service. And because it likes you."

Can anyone explain why the staff owes her service? I don't remember Mercy doing anything special for the staff, it just started following her around.

Anyone know the answer?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 13, 2009, 12:12:02 pm
Maybe because she helped the fae?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 13, 2009, 12:17:59 pm
Killing Tim? - the staff was with the fae that was murdered, and Tim was one of the people behind the killing.
Or it sees Mercy as a worthy master- in the stories the stick only turned against the people who took advantage of it. Mercy has been referred to as a hero I think its attracted to that. Also she is worried for its safety while she was at Blackwood's  house and I bet it never had a master who felt like that before ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 13, 2009, 12:26:14 pm
Actually, didn't the staff start following her around while she was investigating the murder that Zee was charged with? I figured that the staff liked that she was trying to help the fae.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on February 14, 2009, 12:24:14 pm
I agree with Kate - the first time it met her was very early on, so perhaps it was acting on her thoughts and intentions?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 15, 2009, 09:55:44 am
I think that is right about the stick- Nifty raised a really good point about Mercy being pure hearted and Uncle Mike has reffered to her as a hero - so perhaps the stick is also attracted to those traits as well. Lugh from the legends sounds like a hero and perhaps Mercy reminds the stick of him maybe :D

I forgot to mention this in one of my earlier posts! But do you think we will see more of Courtney. Although she paid for the paints and the labour for her graffiti - I dont think that is the last we will see of her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 15, 2009, 10:04:04 am
I think Courtney will continue to make trouble.  Unless or until someone sits her down with that damned video.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 15, 2009, 10:08:04 am
That is what I was thinking :( - even though there is clear evidence that Tim killed Austin which he admitted to the tape.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Gerd D. on February 15, 2009, 10:27:50 am
I think Courtney will continue to make trouble.  Unless or until someone sits her down with that damned video.
And even that may not help, if she's stuborn enough she will find other ways to lie to herself and make the world conform to her view.
I guess it may well be that we will encounter her again in league with some radical group, why she could even go and hook up with Adam's ex. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 15, 2009, 11:15:16 am
And Zee's lawyer and her group. . .
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 15, 2009, 12:07:16 pm
Patty did say shes got more plans for that lawyer and especially high profile Mercy is getting from the fallout from Tim and being linked with Adam. I think they are definitely targets from a hate group like them and I can see Courtney adding fuel to the fire so to speak.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on February 15, 2009, 01:35:33 pm
I agree. I think Courtney won't attack again directly but will stir up trouble elsewhere.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 16, 2009, 03:44:44 am
I forgot about the lawyer in Iron Kissed! If that many enemies did not mean more books I would feel sorry for Adam and Mercy :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 16, 2009, 04:06:11 am
I know poor Mercy especially- I bet Adam or Sam for that matter wouldnt be happy that Mercy actually told her who she was to that lawyer.
But I wonder how the John Lauren society will regard the werewolves - will they consider them as a threat or just monsters.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 16, 2009, 10:04:44 am
Werewolves are a miniscule portion of any population, but they are (many think of themselves as) monsters, so that's not a really good question.  However, The JLS thinks of all things magical as threats, so yes, I don't doubt that they consider werewolves as a threat and will include them in their hate list.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tish on February 16, 2009, 12:13:28 pm
I was thinking too it was the vampire influence both Blackwood sucking on her neck and Stefan. *shivers*

Well...the only reason I didn't think it was the vampire influence was that (my understanding was that) Blackwood severed Stefan's bond with Mercy when he started feeding off her again (the 2nd time).  And Mercy severed Blackwood's bond with her when she killed him.  So at the end of the book, she's no longer tied to either vampire, and is only tied to Adam and the wolves. 

I thought her healing and strength was due to the mate bond as well. Her and Adam has just cemented it before she left for Spokane.  And in Cry Wolf Charles tells Anna about the couple who's WW is mated to a blind woman and she can see when he's in the room with her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 16, 2009, 12:40:19 pm
Just because the bond with Blackwood is gone, that doesn't mean that the strength/healing effects of drinking his blood are instantly gone too, any more than all the effects of the fae goblet were gone when Tim died.
That's my take.
But, yes, pack & mate bonds could also be part of it, poured in from Adam when he felt her need. 
Come to think of it, she could probably get those stitches out right away then too.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 21, 2009, 09:51:22 am
I just realised something about the alpha/pack bonds! Adam uses the bonds to help him heal and Mercy is his mate so perhaps there is something to it because she is the co-alpha!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on February 21, 2009, 11:45:40 am
Ok, hopping into the discussion late, just finally broke down and bought the hard cover. First off, wow! The part of Mercy being made pack had me re-read it twice to fully understand what had happened( I read at such a fast clip I miss things from time to time). This book closed down a few threads (retribution for killing Andre' and what Adam and Mercy's status is) but opened new avenues that I hope are explored, such as her ability to control ghosts. Now I see why Vamps feared walkers so much. All it would take is her to command a ghost to shove a steak into a Vamp so she could kill him.

Overall this is another shinning example of why her books are so popular. The only complaint I have is that I had to buy a hard cover  >:( Now I'll have to trade it and get the paperback when it comes out.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 21, 2009, 11:53:50 am
Hey, Tanis.  Wouldn't it be nice if the publishers could offer both simultaneously?

My editor/word geek side came out to play.  I looked at this sentence:

Quote
All it would take is her to command a ghost to shove a steak into a Vamp so she could kill him.
And had this picture of someone trying to shove a filet mignon through Marsilia's chest.
Then I wondered if in this world, like Robin McKinley's "Sunshine" there are specific types of stake that are more effective, and if some werewolf horticulturist, like Asil, grows the specific tree types.  With or without mistletoe.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on February 21, 2009, 11:55:06 am
Like the rowan stake Zee gave Mercy?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 21, 2009, 12:08:10 pm
D'oh!  Yes. . .
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: PurpleMoon on February 21, 2009, 06:43:09 pm
you see my theories about vampires and ghosts are extremely WILD lol  ;D ... I have some of these sometimes, so I was thinking the other day about Grandmother death, she was a vampire and still, was a ghost after Blackwood killed her (maybe I should put this in the ''what if...'' section)...So What if a vampire is nothing but a more elaborate type of ghost? See, vampires are not alive, they're dead, they only pretend to breathe to appear more human...maybe this is part of the vampire magic, blood magic, that bounds the spirit/soul/ghost to the body, not like a zombie that is bound with ordinary magic, the blood magic would be something a little stronger AND, of course, the older the vampire is the stronger the blood bound between ghost and body would be and harder to a walker to take control over the ghost *inside* the body, that's why the new vampires still have to feed from their creators, the bond is still not complete, not strong enough ...  So, in my theory, it wouldn't be the point of the walker ordering ghost to kill a vampire but the walker being able to control lesser vampires against their master...uhhhhh...that would be SO cool LOL.... but just my wild wanderings...
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 21, 2009, 07:03:35 pm
And interesting idea. Maybe mercy will soon find she can comand vampires too.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 22, 2009, 05:41:10 am
I've been thinking about the possibility of Mercy controlling vampires and I'm not sure it's possible. Afterall, she couldn't control Amber, she only got her to leave her body, once she had taken away the only one reason why Amber stayed behind.

Then I thought perhaps she could kill a vampire getting their spirit to leave the body in a similar way. But, again perhaps a vampire has more than one reason for staying behind in the first place, especially if you have to break all connections.

As for ghost being used to stake a vampire - wouldn't that take up a massive amount of energy? And perhaps Mercy would need a vampire ghost or one that's not a repeater.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 22, 2009, 06:49:26 am
I think he will remain loyal to her, perhaps he thinks he owes her for keeping him alive when he was first turned into a vampire, afterall by rights he should have been killed. But I think he will make her work for his return but I also feel that he needs to go back, and that would all make for interesting reading.

Does anyone get the impression that a lone vampire is as bad as a lone wolf?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 22, 2009, 11:44:09 am

Does anyone get the impression that a lone vampire is as bad as a lone wolf?

Good point, Pendle; it does seem that way from the examples we've seen, doesn't it?  I wonder if Lily the musician had a period when she was essentially alone, and it's contributed to her problems?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Good Mazoku on February 22, 2009, 12:00:19 pm
I just realised something about the alpha/pack bonds! Adam uses the bonds to help him heal and Mercy is his mate so perhaps there is something to it because she is the co-alpha!

Meaning that Mercy could now heal faster thanks to the mate bond to Adam? :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 22, 2009, 12:12:53 pm
^ Yep- we were speculating about earlier but Adam uses it to help himself at times when he needs it. Perhaps the healing instinctively/unconsciously happened especially when Blackwood beat her up badly. She mentioned she was expecting something was broken, So perhaps it was a combo of the vampire blood and the pack/mate bond.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 22, 2009, 12:21:10 pm
Or... now that Mercy is growing in her powers does she have any other hidden talents starting to make themselves known? Like accelerated healing?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 22, 2009, 12:22:59 pm

Does anyone get the impression that a lone vampire is as bad as a lone wolf?

Good point, Pendle; it does seem that way from the examples we've seen, doesn't it?  I wonder if Lily the musician had a period when she was essentially alone, and it's contributed to her problems?

I seem to remember that as soon as Lily rose the vamp that made her was executed and Lily was kept because of her talent with the piano? I had not received the impression that there was any time between her turning and her maker's execution.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 22, 2009, 12:27:44 pm
Ohhhh good point about that- Its like she discovers something about her powers or they get unlocked especially when she does something worthy. Maybe this is why the other Walkers have stayed away to see what direction she goes into- like the other walker whose powers diminished because of his past sins.

Although I am not sure if Mercy will have accelerated healing ala werewolves/vamps, but I do think that the pack/mate bonds and the vampire blood helped her to heal.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 22, 2009, 12:31:02 pm
Yeah I'm not convinced that accelerated healing (that fast anyway) would be one of the powers that may pop up now, but I thought it might be an interesting idea.

I like how you took it one step farther though. Isn't there a thread somewhere that says we may find more walkers in book 6? That leaves one book for more powers then one or more walkers reveal themselves to her?
Now I'm going to wonder for a while :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 22, 2009, 12:39:10 pm
Well I mentioned this before but I think Walkers are able to travel into different realms hence their name- Mercy was able to enter that Fae Lord's realm. I think they have the ability to travel in the dreamworld and perhaps even the border between life and death and they do have a link with dead people. Maybe another reason why the Walkers was hunted is that they may have attacked the vampires when they were dreaming perhaps.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 22, 2009, 12:41:15 pm
I forgot that bit about travelling between realms!
Good idea about vamps' dreams though.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 22, 2009, 01:11:31 pm
Could be; I don't remember the references to her that closely.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 22, 2009, 01:14:39 pm
I just realised something about the alpha/pack bonds! Adam uses the bonds to help him heal and Mercy is his mate so perhaps there is something to it because she is the co-alpha!

Meaning that Mercy could now heal faster thanks to the mate bond to Adam? :)

If she has acquired the power of accelerated healing through the mate bond then the aging process should also slow down for her. What do you think? Afterall aren't you meant get some kind of gift through the mate bond?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 22, 2009, 01:16:02 pm
Lilly's meant to have the mental age of a small child. (I think it said that BC.)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 22, 2009, 01:18:01 pm
She already has; she's getting at least some of Adam's thoughts.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Good Mazoku on February 22, 2009, 03:29:08 pm
If she has acquired the power of accelerated healing through the mate bond then the aging process should also slow down for her. What do you think? Afterall aren't you meant get some kind of gift through the mate bond?

Uhm, that's an interesting possibility. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 22, 2009, 03:30:39 pm
And shes part of the pack as well- and that is the first time a non werewolf managed to join one so I bet that adds to the oomph factor as well ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on February 22, 2009, 04:16:15 pm

Does anyone get the impression that a lone vampire is as bad as a lone wolf?
[/quote]

I definately saw that when Mercy was talking to Stefan at Adam's he thought he dreamed the blood tie to her the only one left...

Stefan was one of the few that were strong enough on their own not to live in the seethe, and he thought he was totally alone without the connection of those he fed from and Marsilia his maker or is she really his maker?

Then what of Blackwood as a lone vampire he appears to have gone beyond the rules as well when he took on the powers of the ones he fed from and exchanged blood with
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on February 22, 2009, 07:41:23 pm

Then what of Blackwood as a lone vampire he appears to have gone beyond the rules as well when he took on the powers of the ones he fed from and exchanged blood with

Blackwood was something other than your typical vamp, hence the name "The Monster". His ability to absorb the powers of those he feeds off makes him more unnatural than other vamps. To be honest, I'm not sure why he was alone, but could you imagine how powerful he would be if he had others he could borrow powers from?

And I too do not think Marsilia's actions were out of character. She does what is best for the Seethe. That is why Bernard was spared but Estelle was killed, she sought to betray Marsilia for the sheer want of power. Yes, she is insane, to a point. But she really does what she can to make sure her own survive. In a way, she did what had to be done to prevent the Seethe from being torn apart by feuding vamps. Would Bran have done the same thing? How many times has it been hinted that Bran has killed the innocent to protect his own? In this aspect Marsilia was actually more merciful than Bran. She elected to severe Stephan's link to his flock instead of just killing them.

The only reason that Stephan did not go back right away was because Mercy was put in danger. Not just from Blackwood (that was actually a side plot, Marsilia had no hand in that at all) but she had a literal death warrant put on her place of business, which by Marsilia's admission is much like her second home as no other vampire save Stephan can enter it. If Mercy had not been involved, Stephan would have returned to Marsilia right away. I think that is one of the reason's why she has such a distaste for Mercy, oh and the fact that she's a walker. But, I think its also been eluded that Marsilia see's a bit of herself in Mercy, thats why she said in another place and time she might have liked her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on February 22, 2009, 07:59:13 pm
D'oh! I really did not mean steak, I ment stake.... um yeah, I did.... I'm sure. Though death by a rare t-bone would be a good way to go!

I like some of the idea's here about Mercy's powers. I do agree though that Mercy being able to kill a vamp just by telling them they are dead is a bit far out there. But, the one about them being able to cross the realms is something a bit meatier though. Remember the Russian Fae commented on how Mercy broke their rules of going to their realm, but did so in the best interest of Fae, so even they are at odd's on how to view her. I'm thinking that because she has been joined with a wolf pack, she is going to be become something that no other walker has ever been. And what if her and Adam have kids? What will they become? That is another reason I think that the Vamps are so wary of her. If she gains strength from the pack bond, had her own powers grow, she could become one of the toughest creatures in the Tri-city area. She not only has the support of the local wolf pack, but she seems to have at least one of the stronger Fae's at her back, and probably the second strongest vampire as a friend as well. Next book should be really really interesting!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CheeseBK on February 24, 2009, 02:46:53 am
D'oh! I really did not mean steak, I ment stake.... um yeah, I did.... I'm sure. Though death by a rare t-bone would be a good way to go!

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: nottled on February 24, 2009, 11:28:40 am
As I re-read, I'm discovering two things.

I'm pissed off that Mercy's rape robbed her and Adam of the joyous, intense hotness that should have been their first time making love. I thought the scene was sweet and appropriate but muted, due to the circumstances. I'm really hoping that when Mercy has a chance to heal, Patty will revisit their physical relationship in a less sensitive, more fun way. I think the bottom wiggling scene was a good step in that direction.

Secondly, I'm very glad Mercy has finally decided that no man is an island. I think if it had carried on, I'd have been annoyed. It's what has turned me off about the Anita Blake series. The gall to reject people that only want to love you in a repeated fashion out of 'self preservation' really pushes my buttons, for some reason.

I love her courage in the way that she was willing to insult Marsilla in a room full of vampires, for the love of Stephan. However, if she'd actually run away at the beginning to save her friends I'd have hated her a little for it. Knowing that the vampires would kill whether she was there or not and that the wolves would tear the world upside down looking for her in fear and panic, was selfish and cowardly. Like I said, I'm glad her bond with Adam forced her from doing it.





Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 24, 2009, 11:50:06 am
Secondly, I'm very glad Mercy has finally decided that no man is an island. I think if it had carried on, I'd have been annoyed. It's what has turned me off about the Anita Blake series. The gall to reject people that only want to love you in a repeated fashion out of 'self preservation' really pushes my buttons, for some reason.

I love her courage in the way that she was willing to insult Marsilla in a room full of vampires, for the love of Stephan. However, if she'd actually run away at the beginning to save her friends I'd have hated her a little for it. Knowing that the vampires would kill whether she was there or not and that the wolves would tear the world upside down looking for her in fear and panic, was selfish and cowardly. Like I said, I'm glad her bond with Adam forced her from doing it.


AMEN, Sister! I felt EXACTLY the same way. When she was going through some of those mental gymnastics, I was seriously worried, but I should have had trust in our Patty. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: nottled on February 24, 2009, 11:53:44 am
Yep, gotta trust that she won't take us there. It's what I love about Mercy. She's tough and ornery but when it comes right down to it, she's appreciative of the people around her. That's what makes me love her.  ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 24, 2009, 12:36:12 pm
I dont think she would have gone through with it though although she had doubts- I did like the fact she went whew I am broke so I cant leave anyway. But I think it was just the stress of everything plus the aftermath of Tim's attack and then Marsillia knowing she just didnt want more people she cared about getting hurt with her problems. But I am glad she got over that - also its hard for her to let people in which is why her revelation at the end has made her aware that she pushed people aside so she wouldnt get close just in case she got hurt again.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: nottled on February 24, 2009, 02:58:18 pm
You're right Has, it had a means to an end but I think I'm getting tired of that quality in heroines. Not Mercy in particular but that whole ideal.

I'd love to see one girl who was strong, kick ass and just fell in love with complete abandon, regardless of the consequences. A fool in love, that's what I want! ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 24, 2009, 03:05:15 pm
Same here - its like the romances that work in my eyes is the ones who are totally and implacably in love their guy!
I love that scene where she goes to Aurielle - MINE :D
That scene showed that Mercy isnt one to back away now and its a full commitment you dont really get in some urban fantasy - well the ones who have the multiple love interests. But I think thats changing though.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: nottled on February 24, 2009, 03:20:19 pm
That was one of my favorite scenes in the book. I loved the 'epiphany' and her acceptance that she was Adam's and vice versa.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Spring on February 25, 2009, 08:49:47 am
I was a little confused about Stefan's bond to Mercy at the end of Bone Crossed.  On the top of page 273 Patty wrote "but your ties to the wolves and to that other vampire-...-have blocked him" but on page 305 Patty wrote "I came to tell you that we no longer share a bond.....I imagine when he fed from you again."  How was Stefan's bond able to stop Blackwood from making her Blackwood's servant and yet not be there once Blackwood ate from her? (That was why Stefan could not find her there without Marsilia's help.)  Does she still have a bond with Stefan (that helped her) that Stefan is not aware of?(the bond being unusual and does not give him her location) 

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: PurpleMoon on February 25, 2009, 09:24:21 am
I think that, technically, there never was a bond between Blackwood and Mercy...grandmother death told her that it would take a couple of feedings, maybe months, for him to have control over her...BUT since he had already fed from her he could know, as any other vampire, where his food was, when Stefan fed from her this `bond` (vampire/food) was broken and substituted by Stefan's...when Blackwood fed from her again, at his den, he broke Stefan's touch to HIS food (mercy) so Stefan couldn't know where she was right? Am I making sense? that's what I think anyways....
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Lorikeet on February 26, 2009, 02:17:05 am
Hi,
first I have to say: I'm new here. (Hi to everybody) I've read all the Mercy Books (bone crossed in english the other ones in german). I hope I will not make too much mistakes, for english is not my native speech.

And now I will start to discuss  ;)
Fact is, Stefan was not pleased about having no bond any longer with Mercy. But very interesting was, that while she had the bond with Stefan, the bond to Adam was not fully complete (he couldn't feel her right I remember).

If I understand it right, the bond with Stefan was ended through something which the magician made. But I do not trust him real. So let's see if the bond really exists no longer!

Greetings to all
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on February 26, 2009, 08:35:37 am
It worked out like this: Blackwood feed from Mercy twice and had the original bond. When Stephan fed from Mercy on the way back he broke Blackwood's bond with his own. The third time Blackwood fed from Mercy he broken Stephan's bond in the same way, but his bond was dissolved when he died. So now Stephan lost his bond and Mercy is bondless. Neither of these bonds really had any effect on her bond with Adam as that was on a whole other level. Her bond with Adam and the pack wasn't affected by either bond with Stephan or Blackwood, Mercy just temporarily glitched it when she lost herself in the pack.

As far as Stephan lying about her bond, I don't think thats the case. As my above paragraph states, the bonds of one vamp can be removed by the placement of another vamp's bond as long as the bond is weak enough. When Blackwood died Mercy lost the latest bond to a vamp she had, so she is no longer bound to any vamps. Stephan was probably more upset about this because Mercy was the last bond he could feel since he lost the bonds to his herd. Kind of like if a normal person lost all memory of where they put all their food and now had to go out and search for something to eat. Maybe there was a slight emotional attachment as Stephan views Mercy as a friend outside of the vamp realm, but it I do not think it was much more than that.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on February 26, 2009, 08:37:52 am
Blah, I'm not in it for the romance, I'm in for that action!

 ;D ;D ;D

All joking aside, I can see your point. After too much of this "Must sacrifice myself for those that I love no matter how much I suffer" you just want to smack that person. Even in my depths of testosterone I too grow tired of that. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on February 26, 2009, 09:20:23 am
I love that scene where she goes to Aurielle - MINE :D
That scene showed that Mercy isnt one to back away now and its a full commitment you dont really get in some urban fantasy

Actually, it wasn't just that.  I think that scene was intended to show that Mercy's not going to be a burden to Adam as his mate.  Obviously, choosing Mercy has his mate and then making her Pack creating some problems for Adam in that not everyone in his Pack is happy about it.  Now...either Adam has to expend energy to deal with that kind of rebellion...or Mercy, as his mate and a fairly dominant person in her own right, can take care of it herself.  Which she does.  That's why she's telling Aurielle to "suck it up and deal with it."  She's not just staking her claim on Adam and making sure that his people know she's committed and there to stay.  She's also saying, "If you've got a problem with me, come to ME...don't go running like a whiny little wuss to Adam and add your problems to his already full plate."  She's making it clear that she's able and willing to shoulder some of the burdens of pack-alpha.  She's Adam's PARTNER.  She's not just his girlfriend or his "pack and only lover."

In the few scenes we've seen with Leah, Leah hasn't done that.  She uses Bran's power for her own purposes.  We haven't seen her try to use his power for the betterment of the Pack.  Mercy's making it clear that she may now be able to access Adam's power and position and authority, but she'll do so for the benefit of the Pack.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on February 26, 2009, 12:40:21 pm
I so agree with you there- hence why I dont thing things are going to work out for Bran and Leah in the long run even if they manage to work out their issues. Leah sees that as a status thing while Mercy appreciates it and understands the full implications of being an Alpha's mate.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on February 26, 2009, 02:06:59 pm
Leah could learn, if you can teach an old dog new tricks. ( :) )

Bone Crossed.
I agree that Mercy is taking up part of the responsibility, and in the car she isn't even using pack 'magic' to do it. (I don't think). Major difference from Leah's attitude.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on February 26, 2009, 04:57:29 pm
I so agree with you there- hence why I dont thing things are going to work out for Bran and Leah in the long run even if they manage to work out their issues. Leah sees that as a status thing while Mercy appreciates it and understands the full implications of being an Alpha's mate.


Leah doesn't have much else for an option. Maybe she tried when they were first mated but Bran stiil wouldn't warm up to her.
I like Bran and dislike Leah but put them in the same room and it's Bran I want to slap... um and then run... very fast.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on February 26, 2009, 05:04:46 pm
Virtual slapping, over the computer. less dangerous that way.

Does an Alpha's power work over the phone?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: IvyBRT on February 26, 2009, 05:41:09 pm
I liked the book... But it left me heart broken for Sam. I want more Sam! I need more Sam! I also did like the progess in Mercy's and Adam's relationship. It was a litlle weird when  Adam made mercy pack, but i'll survive. ;D (lol)

P.S.  Did I mention I need me some Sam? ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on February 27, 2009, 10:54:58 am
Leah doesn't have much else for an option. Maybe she tried when they were first mated but Bran stiil wouldn't warm up to her.

We’ve not seen enough of Leah to really judge her - though some of her actions don’t paint her in the best light. I think she’s very insecure in herself and just acts out in reaction. She probably did try to get closer to Bran when they first got together, but she was never going to match to Charles’s mother. And she’s going to feel that and take it out on others.

I might be wrong, she might brash and selfish all of the time. I’ll just have to wait for  more snippets.

Did I mention I need me some Sam? ;)

I think we all need a bit more of Sam - when he’s at his best, he offers some of the best moments in the books. But when he is just going through the motions that’s hard to read. And things are going to get worse, before they get better.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ena on February 27, 2009, 05:19:32 pm
I wonder if Marsilia really endangered Mercy by painting the bone-cross on her door, since no vamp can enter the building besides Stephan?
In my opinion it was part of the plan to force the rebels to action like the hole outcasting of Stephan was.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: PurpleMoon on February 27, 2009, 05:42:36 pm
the vamps have other beings under their service...I assume fae, so there would be no problem for them to get in there and harm Mercy since she was an enemy of the seethe, she was also an enemy of the seethes's friends
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on February 27, 2009, 05:49:03 pm
They also mentioned that the bone cross would start to attract nasty other-worldly beings of all kinds, and since the bone cross indicates that Mercy's business is no longer under the vampire's protection, she'd be at their, well, mercy. No pun intended.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tirya on February 28, 2009, 10:07:06 pm
Okay so I finally had time to finish the book and I have to say a have mixed feelings.  I love this series but something about this particular book felt off and I dont know exactly what it was.

I am finally getting back to re-reading the book (it's been a long month) and I think I've put my finger on what bothers me about this one that I didn't notice in the earlier ones (or at least not as much).

The flow is different - more partial sentences, more sub-thoughts in parenthesis, more "asides" that to me make the book feel more "choppy". I only really noticed it this time through because it was like they would grab me and shake me out of my "zone" as I ran over them.

Examples:

Quote
He'd had to go to Washington (the capital -- we were in the state) this weekend to clean up a little mess that was sort of my fault.

(Since she just mentioned DC in the sentence before, this seemed a little redundant?)

Quote
So we jumped in my Vanagon (my poor Rabbit was still in repairs from the damage a fae had done to it last week).

(Why not "So we jumped into my Vanagon, since my poor Rabbit was still in repairs..."? Why the sotto voce comment?)

Quote
Sensei stood up, and I followed suit. He looked at Adam.

Who bowed, fist to hand and eyes hidden behind dark sunglasses he hadn't been wearing when I'd first glimpsed him in the doorway.

(Starting the sentence, let alone the paragraph, with "Who" really confused me at first - I thought the sentence was going to be a question, not a statement that Adam bowed first. If it had read "Adam bowed, fist to hand..." it wouldn't have bothered me as much, even with the repetition of the word "Adam".)

Quote
Bernard stood on the bank, the gun held with obvious familiarity with the barrel pointed at yours truly.

(To me, even though I love the first-person POV in the series, this was just a little too "buddy buddy" with the reader. Dunno if that makes any sense.)

Quote
"I bet you did. Are my Samuel and your Adam hovering over you and giving you a bad time?" His voice was full of (false) sympathy.

(The "false" in parenthesis, as an aside, really bugged me here.)

There's also one part about someone lying on Mercy's bed, and there's a whole aside sentence about how (he'd just turned on the small lamps on the bedside table) that to me was totally distracting from the actual meat of the scene, but of course I can't find it now.

Don't get me wrong - I thoroughly enjoy the book and the story, but to me it also felt a little different, and I think this is why.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 28, 2009, 10:13:00 pm
Gah!  My writing style is infecting Our Hostess!  Get her an antidote, quick!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on February 28, 2009, 10:24:59 pm
hey, I like what you write and I like what Patty writes.

I think the story was lighter, especially after IK. It needed a lighter writing style.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: PurpleMoon on March 01, 2009, 07:09:10 am
Quote
I like Bran and dislike Leah but put them in the same room and it's Bran I want to slap... um and then run... very fast.

never run from a werewolf Artangel, it just makes them madder lol

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: rolange on March 01, 2009, 09:00:00 am
Okay so I finally had time to finish the book and I have to say a have mixed feelings.  I love this series but something about this particular book felt off and I dont know exactly what it was.  At first I thought it was the dialogue it felt at times too forced or unnaturally sappy and at other times I felt it was because of Mercy and Adams chemistry felt off.  Maybe they were just suffering from what a lot of main characters go through once they finally get together and the relationship doesn't live up to expectations. And at times I just thought the main plot didn't quite blend well enough with the subplots.

I just don't know and I was just wondering if I was the only one who thought this book felt different from the others in the series?  Maybe the book will be better the second time around

I'm finally getting around to posting about the book. I read a few weeks ago and intend to read it again soon. But I have to agree with you, there was something off in this book. Whether it was the pacing or Mercy interaction with Adam or just Mercy herself. And I'm not sure how much of that has to do with Mercy really not being herself yet either, after the events of Iron Kissed. I felt it was a mistake to take so much of the book away from Finley to Spokane, where I found myself wondering not only why I should care but what was going on? Why was Mercy even there? Of course, it came to a head at the end but it took a long time to get there. I was craving more Adam/Mercy scenes, and more Sam scenes as well. I also thought there could have been more to the Bran scenes. I did love the role Stefan played in all of this and his character go fleshed out nicely. I've posted a review at http://rolange.livejournal.com/12808.html#cutid1 (http://rolange.livejournal.com/12808.html#cutid1) my lj site for those who care to read. It's just my opinion. In the end, I did love it of course, but for most of my reading it did feel...off, like you said. So, you weren't the only one.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Anya on March 01, 2009, 05:45:09 pm
Quote
I like Bran and dislike Leah but put them in the same room and it's Bran I want to slap... um and then run... very fast.

never run from a werewolf Artangel, it just makes them madder lol



lol! but then again with bran, you'd never know how he would react.  ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 01, 2009, 06:26:53 pm
Actually, the slap for mad; run for trigger chase and kill. . . .  not so good an idea.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on March 02, 2009, 07:23:29 am
Okay so I finally had time to finish the book and I have to say a have mixed feelings.  I love this series but something about this particular book felt off and I dont know exactly what it was. 
I just don't know and I was just wondering if I was the only one who thought this book felt different from the others in the series?  Maybe the book will be better the second time around

 But I have to agree with you, there was something off in this book.

Rolange and Nina...just out of curiosity...do you think your feelings could have anything to do with the format of the book?  That it was in hardcover, I mean?  I've noticed that I have a completely unconscious bias against hardcover books.  They ALWAYS feel "off" to me, especially when I've been reading all the previous ones in a series.  They always feel shorter to me than paperback books, even if they are indeed the same length (number of words).  And they always feel overall as if the story is "less hefty."  I can't really explain it better than that.  I think it's psychological or something...a reaction to the larger font, the larger paper, the greater amount of white space between lines and in the margins.  Anyway, my initial reaction to Bone Crossed was not as enthusiastic (overall) as I had wanted it to be...until I re-read it three or four more times.  I liked it more with each subsequent re-reading.  But even still, it's hard to shake that feeling that the story was far less substantial than Iron Kissed or Blood Bound.  I'm totally blaming the format for that.

I wish I had the will-power to put off reading #5 until it was out in paperback, but I know that won't happen.  *sigh*  But yeah, the format DEFINITELY impacted my overall enjoyment of and response to Bone Crossed.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on March 02, 2009, 12:41:46 pm
I also think that Mercy's POV is a factor as well- and its straight after IK and she's still coming to terms with the rape and add the fact that  Marsillia and Blackwood  are after her as well. Mercy is feeling is pretty fragile despite her brave front. Also Adam has been on edge most of the time in the previous 3 books - the mate issues within his pack, Sam, Jesse being abducted and Littleton and the demon- it would make him more grumpy than usual so when Mercy chooses him he can finally relax. And both of them dont want to rock the boat so to speak - Adam has to deal with backlash of Mercy being his mate and being part of the pack, plus his own guilt and feelings about Mercy being attacked. And Mercy doesnt want to give him additional grief because she can see the repercussions of what is going on, so I think that is why the feel of the book is different.

But I got a sense things will change anyway- it has to and that is a sign of good writing because there is development and change- and this is a HUGE change for everyone in this book it feels like the first 3 books sets up and establishes the series/characters but the end of IK and BC is definitely the start of a new arc/chapter for everyone!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on March 02, 2009, 01:19:02 pm
I definitely agree with you Has! BC was a little off and uncomfortable but we are looking into Mercy's soul after she was raped and that kind of thing is never comfortable!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on March 02, 2009, 01:33:22 pm
Bone Crossed is different than other books in the series.   I'm not sure it's bad, just different.

First of all, realize that a good author is always learning.  Patty's never tried to plot anything this long previously, and it presents some challenges she hasn't faced previously.  Books should be tense, fast-paced, and leave the reader wanting more.  That works well for a while, but after three books of breakneck speed, rapid-fire adventure and considerable damage the characters are on the edge, there's plot threads hanging like a frayed rope, and the suspension of disbelief is starting to unravel around the edges.

So, Bone Crossed had the usual mystery/monster plot, but it was only one of several plots being woven together.  It wasn't quite as edgy, or as powerful in some ways, as the previous books.  But it gave the characters a chance to work out a few issues, tuck a few plot threads back into place, and get things settled just a bit.  Basically, it's a transition between the "Innocent Girl Gets Inducted to the Nasty Paranormal World" part of the story, and the "Mature Heroine. Tired Of Posturing, Rearranges the World" part of the story.  The action will ramp up again in the next one!

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 02, 2009, 01:49:19 pm
Quote
Basically, it's a transition between the "Innocent Girl Gets Inducted to the Nasty Paranormal World" part of the story, and the "Mature Heroine. Tired Of Posturing, Rearranges the World" part of the story.

 :D Love that categorization!   ;D

And even in series, you have to do the same thing as the main book;  build to a climax, recover, build to next climax, recover, lather, rinse, repeat. 

 It took until the fourth book for crying out loud!  Most authors get the slump in the second book.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: franiwolf9 on March 02, 2009, 03:01:11 pm
wow I can't wait until
Quote
the "Mature Heroine. Tired Of Posturing, Rearranges the World" part of the story.


Thanks so much Mike for providing some clarification, it is greatly appreciated. I'm totally ready to dive back into Mercy's world and was just sighing over the "long" wait until the next Cry Wolf series book is released.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: rolange on March 02, 2009, 05:28:50 pm
Okay so I finally had time to finish the book and I have to say a have mixed feelings.  I love this series but something about this particular book felt off and I dont know exactly what it was. 
I just don't know and I was just wondering if I was the only one who thought this book felt different from the others in the series?  Maybe the book will be better the second time around

 But I have to agree with you, there was something off in this book.

Rolange and Nina...just out of curiosity...do you think your feelings could have anything to do with the format of the book?  That it was in hardcover, I mean?  I've noticed that I have a completely unconscious bias against hardcover books.  They ALWAYS feel "off" to me, especially when I've been reading all the previous ones in a series.  They always feel shorter to me than paperback books, even if they are indeed the same length (number of words).  And they always feel overall as if the story is "less hefty."  I can't really explain it better than that.  I think it's psychological or something...a reaction to the larger font, the larger paper, the greater amount of white space between lines and in the margins.  Anyway, my initial reaction to Bone Crossed was not as enthusiastic (overall) as I had wanted it to be...until I re-read it three or four more times.  I liked it more with each subsequent re-reading.  But even still, it's hard to shake that feeling that the story was far less substantial than Iron Kissed or Blood Bound.  I'm totally blaming the format for that.

I wish I had the will-power to put off reading #5 until it was out in paperback, but I know that won't happen.  *sigh*  But yeah, the format DEFINITELY impacted my overall enjoyment of and response to Bone Crossed.

I'd have to say, for me, it didn't make a difference whether it was paperback or hardcover. I initially wasn't going to buy it in hardcover because I prefer paperbacks. But when I saw it in the bookstore I was so excited that I had to have it. I approached with as much enthusiasm as I would any of the Mercy books.  I did think, however, that for people coming to it because it is hard cover...it was probably the weakest in the series. But even when I say that, I don't mean that it is a weak book on it's own, just in comparison to the previous books. Moon Called, Blood Bound, and Iron Kissed were so much stronger plot wise and emotionally.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Lorikeet on March 05, 2009, 03:40:45 am
Sorry, I didn't mean I do not trust Stefan. He is not false, but I don't trust Wolfe!
And I remember, Stefan had a kind of bond to Mercy before Blackwood had one. Because of this Adam made his in a hurry-up way.
But it's right, let's wait what will happen in the next books.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: stephanieolden on March 06, 2009, 10:15:25 am
ok so i read bone crossed and i loved it.
but im a little confused about what exactly happened between mercy and adam. my friend also read the book and was as confused as well. so did they or didn't they have sex. i know in her other books that she doesn't really do into detail, but im not sure if they did it or didn't. i also read the anna and charles books and in their book it was more defined you knew that it happened. it was also kind of out of the blue she was spending so much time with stefan and then see has sex with adam. she also didn't seem that excited about what happened because there were no comments about it.
thanks
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on March 06, 2009, 11:49:16 am
Yes. She did.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Tanis143 on March 07, 2009, 02:26:03 pm
I can see what Mike was talking about, though I could not have voiced it as well as he could. I did see that several loose threads were closed up (Adam and Mercy are mated, bout time. The whole vampire issue is solved (for the time being at least). Even Tim's angry cousin is finally brushed off, at least for now. The only major plot thread I see that's still open is Bright Future, they are still there and with the fact that Were's are out in the open they may group them with the Fae as needing to be removed to promote the human future. I dont see BC as a plot builder but more as a plot finisher. Almost like the previous three sat next to each other seamlessly but left a jagged edge on top. With BC over all three of them, almost all of the jagged edges are cleaned up and smoothed over and now we have a platform that new issues, twists and turns will arise to amuse us.

The only question that I have for Patty is how many other supernatural creatures is she going to experiment with? We have two types of were's, Fae, Vamps and with Cry Wolf we now have witches. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Demi on March 08, 2009, 02:21:39 am
The only question that I have for Patty is how many other supernatural creatures is she going to experiment with? We have two types of were's, Fae, Vamps and with Cry Wolf we now have witches. 

Well i think in Mercys World there is everything you heard off.
The question is if they will show up, or if they prefer to stay hidden
because there is no need to show themselfes.
And witches we had in the first book, they are part of the start  :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on March 08, 2009, 05:32:27 am
The situation was down played because she was still healing.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on March 08, 2009, 05:35:59 am
So did Blackwood take Stefan's and Mercy's bond as his own? Like Marsilia's and Wulfe's power of breaking bonds eluded to?

That's the only way I can see it happening without the bond reverting back to Stefan upon Blackwoods death. Unless Stefan's lying.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 08, 2009, 09:28:28 am
Yes, Elizaveta cleaning up after the guys who came after Alan.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 08, 2009, 09:29:32 am
Yes, and I'd say Pendle even under played it; she's going to be mentally & emotionally healing for some time to come.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 08, 2009, 09:31:48 am
I don't see any reason it should go back to Stephan.
It's not stuck to anyone.  It's more like cowboy A catches a mustang (Mercy) Horse thief B(lackwood) steals it.  Cowboy gets the mustang back.  Horsethief B steals it again, and then dies.  The mustang goes free.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: stephanieolden on March 08, 2009, 08:15:00 pm
ok thanks. i really wish she would have waited though i just thought it should have been special for them after what happened in the other books and it didn't really seen that way.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 08, 2009, 08:24:56 pm
Special isn't always possible for first time with someone.  That's one of those romantic fallacies that screw up so many relationships.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: charmed on March 08, 2009, 08:27:25 pm
It also depends on how you define "special". For them they were together, comfortable, neither felt particularly pressured and it was a mutual decision. They enjoyed themselves, even made a game fo it. That's a pretty good first time methinks :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ElefiNecol on March 08, 2009, 08:30:00 pm
In other words special does not always mean big passionate event?  :)  I thought it was more on the sweet side personally, and much more in character then it could potentially have been.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: charmed on March 08, 2009, 08:31:32 pm
In other words special does not always mean big passionate event?  :)  I thought it was more on the sweet side personally, and much more in character then it could potentially have been.

Exactly :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on March 09, 2009, 01:36:59 pm
It was encreadably sweet, I couldn't have wished for better between them.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: kas913 on March 09, 2009, 03:22:10 pm
I thought that it was great!  I mean, no matter how long she waited after being raped, it would have been difficult and brought up painful memories.  Adam was so sweet and slowly helped her overcome those memories.  Once she can finally put that all behind her, then they can have some more passion, but that first time really had to go slow.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: kas913 on March 09, 2009, 03:28:04 pm
Great way of explaining it Patti!  Stefan and Mercy's bond is completely broken and I think that she would have to do a blood exchange again to ever have that back (and I can't see her doing that unless absolutely necessary).  But I don't think that Stefan was too happy that the bond was broken.  Personally, I think that he has a crush on Mercy.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on March 09, 2009, 04:41:39 pm
at that point, mercy was the only one in stefan's head, wasn't she? Maybe he was melancoly over being alone in his head.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on March 09, 2009, 06:46:30 pm
Rather more than melancholy, unless you use the old fashioned meaning of it, which we've replaced with 'deep clinical depression'.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on March 09, 2009, 06:54:05 pm
Stefan's an old fashioned kind of guy.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on March 09, 2009, 08:28:34 pm
I just re-read BC and bawled my eyes out again :'(.

Not in a bad way :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on March 12, 2009, 06:02:05 pm
ok so i read bone crossed and i loved it.
but im a little confused about what exactly happened between mercy and adam. my friend also read the book and was as confused as well. so did they or didn't they have sex. i know in her other books that she doesn't really do into detail, but im not sure if they did it or didn't. i also read the anna and charles books and in their book it was more defined you knew that it happened. it was also kind of out of the blue she was spending so much time with stefan and then see has sex with adam. she also didn't seem that excited about what happened because there were no comments about it.
thanks

remember that the events with Tim were only a week and a couple of days previous Adam very patiently worked through her memories and when either he or both of them started to get carried away he reverted to teasing, rasberry on her belly and faking hurt from elbow to his head.  In CW Anna was the victim of perpetual abuse from the day she was changed.  Mercy's situation is totally different.  Adam loves her and she has discovered she loves him too.  In IK after Jessie is attacked Adam tells Darryl he should have gone after her sooner,but because of Christy (ex-wife) he wasn't sure he ever wanted another woman again. When Adam told her she was like Medea at his touch and that's how he knew she wanted him as much as he wanted her it was a healing for both of them there was no need to be more explicit in what happened when Adam "got down to business" He had healed her wounds and his own and replaced them with the ones that will last forever.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Spring on March 13, 2009, 06:52:57 am
Thank you!  I had not thought about there being a bond/connection with Blackwood even though Mercy was blocked from becoming his servant.  I had thought it meant there was no bond at all between her and Blackwood due to her other connections.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: white_unicorn on March 13, 2009, 11:15:58 am
I just loved the scene... And even though I got a bit confused in the beginning it became clear as I read through it... after all, Tim was  a week and a bit before but don't forget the Blackwood "Monster" and his abuse in the form of biting Mercy while she was unconscious... (At least that's how I thought it...

Still, I... wouldn't want it any other way (as the saying goes) Anna needed... to 'learn' how to be in a normal relationship after 3 years of abuse, and at the time they thought the mating bond would be created through sex...
Mercy and Adam had to heal other wounds and there was no 'pressure' to create the bond, it was already there...

(Plus, it gives me hope that someday I'll be able to write something like that for my own characters.... ;D)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: kas913 on March 22, 2009, 08:46:10 am
First off, let me say that I am pretty new to this discussion board and so I haven't read everything on this thread yet.  So I apologize if someone has brought up this question already.  I loved Bone Crossed.  I thought that it showed some real changes and growth in Mercy.  Yes, this book was different from the first 3, but I think that I would get bored with a series if it didn't reinvent itself once in a while.

The part that's been bugging me was the section where Mercy was stuck in the cage.  At one point, she shifted and was able to get through the bars between her and Corbin's cage.  Why couldn't she have shifted and gotten out completely?  Couldn't she have done it while Amber was downstairs and had the key?  Or even if she was worried about Blackwood, couldn't she have waiting until he was sleeping and then slipped out to either attempt to kill Blackwood, or even just to get to a phone to call Adam?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on March 22, 2009, 10:35:44 am
But Blackwood has hostages. She waited until the young boy and his dad disappeared before she started revolting.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on March 22, 2009, 10:18:04 pm
But Blackwood has hostages. She waited until the young boy and his dad disappeared before she started revolting.

That's true. Remember how she could have escaped from the trunk before Blackwood even put her in the cage? She still stuck around because he would hurt the kid (sorry I forgot his name)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on April 08, 2009, 10:02:01 am
That's true. Remember how she could have escaped from the trunk before Blackwood even put her in the cage? She still stuck around because he would hurt the kid (sorry I forgot his name)

Chad.

She could have gotten free at any time. But she was facing her fears head on. I suppose she's like a dominant wolf in that sense - there to protect others, like when she attacked Blackwood so he couldn't get Corban.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on April 08, 2009, 10:12:40 am
I just loved the scene... And even though I got a bit confused in the beginning it became clear as I read through it... after all, Tim was  a week and a bit before but don't forget the Blackwood "Monster" and his abuse in the form of biting Mercy while she was unconscious... (At least that's how I thought it...

Mercy and Adam had to heal other wounds and there was no 'pressure' to create the bond, it was already there...

I agree about the opening, but she needed that and humour to begin the healing process. It was sweet, the Medea comparisons were funny.

I'm glad there isn't a big ceremony with the mate bond and what not - that would have been too weird. It was good that the mating thing happens spontaneously almost, (afterall, I don't think Adam knew what he was doing!) And it can't be forced.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Fluckegirl on April 14, 2009, 06:47:26 pm
ok so i understand that Amber in BC wasn't technically a zombie but i don't understand what she was really or how she got to be that way. Something was mentioned about her being broken but i don't get it?Any ideas?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on April 14, 2009, 07:33:25 pm
I think her spirit stayed in her body because she felt she had to stay to protect her son.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mdauben on April 17, 2009, 11:26:36 pm
After a long delay, I was finally able to read Bone Crossed this week.  It was overall a pretty good read and was well worth the wait  There were a couple of things that I was less than happy with, however.

The Aftermath of Iron Kissed
When Iron Kissed originally came out, like some others I had voiced the fact that I didn't particulary like reading about what happened to Mercy in the garage and thought the book could have been better without that particular event.  Some discussion of the topic here alowed me to view it from a different view point and understand why Patrica wanted to include it.  One of the things that made it easier for me to accept was how Mercy was (seemingly) able to move past the event and start her relationship with Adam at the end of the book.  One of the things I have always liked about the series and the character of Mercy is what a strong, independent person she is.  We found in this book, however, that she was not as "over it" as she seemed in the end of Iron Kissed.  Her feelings and responses in Bone Crossed were probably more realistic than the quick recover we thought we saw in the last book, but for me at least it was still disappointing to see her regressing in her recovery from the traumatic events of the last book. 

I admit I hated to see our strong, self-confident heroine suffering from panic attacks and bouts of fear.   Now, there were plenty of other scenes where Mercy was brave and strong as usual, so its not like the character had a total personality change.  Perhaps its just my continued discomfort with the subject that is influencing my personal perceptions of those aspects of the story.  :-\

The Climax of the Story
I was really enjoying the storyline in this book.  Some new plot threads woven together with some exiting threads.  Very exciting right up to the end, which I found kind of... disappointing.  The whole thing left me with a feeling of deus ex machina.  It was like nothing Mercy did really mattered in the end.  The "staff of sheep farming" just suddenly (and for no apparent reason) became a "spear of vampire killing" and solved the problem.   ::)

The final scene in the book with Mercy, Stephan and  Marsilia seemed to end kind of abruptly, too.  I actually thought for a minute that I was missing the last page or something.  Not bad, it just didn't seem to end on the definite final note like the previous books did.

Now, just becuase all I mentioned are a couple things I didn't like, does not mean there was not a lot that I did like about the book.  The whole series is one of my favorites and depsite any reservations I may have about some aspects of the book, I still really enjoyed it and thought it was a welcome addition to the series.   ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mdauben on April 17, 2009, 11:46:32 pm
I do have a question, though.  I was really surprised(confused)  that Stefan's flock survived.  I mean, isn't it more in character for Marsilia to have really killed them all?  Or, is this integral to a future plot line?  It just struck me as being a bit out of the blue, that's all. 
I admit I was kind of supprised when that was revealed, but I don't think it was really that out of character for Marsilia. 

She probably could have cared less about the people in Stephen's flock but even if she didn't understand why she knows that he cares about them.  Remember, the whole thing was just a ploy on her part, and she always planned that Stephen would return to her seethe when it was over and their estrangement would only be temporary.  So she didn't want to do something permenant that could not be undone between them.  The problem was she didn't understand that there were things besides actually killing his flock that he still might have a hard time forgiving her for.  ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 18, 2009, 09:17:20 am
Well put.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on April 18, 2009, 10:05:59 am
Yeah that is! Actually it reminded me of a similar incident :), when Stefan did not get that Mercy holds him responsible for killing those two people even though Wulf actually did it.

That strikes me as pretty ironic.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on April 18, 2009, 02:18:54 pm
Yeah that is! Actually it reminded me of a similar incident :), when Stefan did not get that Mercy holds him responsible for killing those two people even though Wulf actually did it.

That strikes me as pretty ironic.

OOoooooh, that's a good point.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on April 18, 2009, 02:21:31 pm
The Aftermath of Iron Kissed
When Iron Kissed originally came out, like some others I had voiced the fact that I didn't particulary like reading about what happened to Mercy in the garage and thought the book could have been better without that particular event.  Some discussion of the topic here alowed me to view it from a different view point and understand why Patrica wanted to include it.  One of the things that made it easier for me to accept was how Mercy was (seemingly) able to move past the event and start her relationship with Adam at the end of the book.  One of the things I have always liked about the series and the character of Mercy is what a strong, independent person she is.  We found in this book, however, that she was not as "over it" as she seemed in the end of Iron Kissed.  Her feelings and responses in Bone Crossed were probably more realistic than the quick recover we thought we saw in the last book, but for me at least it was still disappointing to see her regressing in her recovery from the traumatic events of the last book. 

I admit I hated to see our strong, self-confident heroine suffering from panic attacks and bouts of fear.   Now, there were plenty of other scenes where Mercy was brave and strong as usual, so its not like the character had a total personality change.  Perhaps its just my continued discomfort with the subject that is influencing my personal perceptions of those aspects of the story.  :-\


This? Was one of the things I loved most about the book. The realistic way in which it dealt with what would be a horrible experience that Mercy went through. Different strokes, I guess. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 18, 2009, 09:31:24 pm
I just read a short review in Locus magazine for Bone Crossed, and I'm with that reviewer, who said something to the effect that he or she loved the fact that Mercy neither brushed the whole thing off unrealisitically nor wallowed in it; she had it happening and did her best to cope, with the help of friends and loved ones.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ladylynx on April 19, 2009, 09:06:31 am
I think Bright Future is going to be Ms. Briggs reoccurring villains. Like Ms. Hamilton has and even Ms. Harris has in her books. This way when you want to add additional problems to the main character's life you can bring these groups in to make trouble or write a whole story with them in it. Also with Were-Wolves coming out your going to have all sorts of hate and religious groups saying something.

As for Adams and Marcy's mating goes. I think the Marrok had figure to do that with them. Mercy means so much to him and he knows her nature really well, that he needed someone that was patient, nice and a gentlemen to win her over. He knew those two would hit it off. Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but I'm sort of feeling that Adam has allot of traits similar to Bran. so Bran knew he could trust Adam with the second most precious thing in his life.

I think down the road Sam might find what he wants either in another shifter or in a normal person. Heck, a Fae might be good for him. The two could have fun.   
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: midnight on April 19, 2009, 11:50:41 am
I completely understand what your saying mdauben,  :) but for me, my favourite part of Patricia's writing is that whilst she is writing a fictional story, she also incorporates a realistic perception into her characters and storyline. By doing that she makes the characters more real and believable. I enjoy reading books like that.
I guess its like what Kate said different strokes ;) 

 
Ladylynx,  ;D what i fantastic thought. I completely forgot about Bran and how he felt about Mercy. Now that I think about it, i can see how Bran might might approve of Adam for his Mercy.   
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on April 19, 2009, 12:51:36 pm
He might have been manipulating them toward that from the moment he sent Adam up there. 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Nifty on April 23, 2009, 12:51:41 pm
I completely understand what your saying mdauben,  :) but for me, my favourite part of Patricia's writing is that whilst she is writing a fictional story, she also incorporates a realistic perception into her characters and storyline. By doing that she makes the characters more real and believable.

This is it for me in a nutshell.  When I was introducing my friend Yours Truly to the books, I kept saying that the characters were psychologically sound.  That was my ringing endorsement.  Ha!  But I LIKE that about them.  I like that they behave in a way that is reasonable and rational.  Makes them relatable...for me, at least.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mdauben on May 03, 2009, 07:36:27 am
This? Was one of the things I loved most about the book. The realistic way in which it dealt with what would be a horrible experience that Mercy went through. Different strokes, I guess. :)
Yes, I guess so.  I made sure to try and frame my comments as something I didn't care for, rather than saying it made the book bad.  I think I can understand (as much as a guy can, perhaps) why some readers find the material compelling and even important.  I can even understand why Patrica wan't to include it in her books.  Its just my personal feelings when I read it that make me not enjoy (if that's really the right word) reading about it.   :-[
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on May 06, 2009, 01:15:36 am
I've found a little detail, that irritates me in BC - yes it took a long long time and a few re-readings.

When Mercy is caught in the cage and desperately searching for a weapon, she doesn't get the idea to use the magical stab herself, it is the Fae that mentions it. Why doesn't she even think about it? I mean, even if it woudln't be a magical stab it still would be a better weapon than nothing.
But apart from this little detail I still think that BC is one of the best books in the series. And yes, I like the way Mercy copes with her rape. It is realistic and I would've hated it if she could have shrugged it off that easily. I hate those super-uberheroes.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: charmed on May 07, 2009, 12:41:21 pm
Quote
Thank you for your wonderful books and this great place to discuss them.

I was wondering... At the trial in Bone Crossed, Marsilia goads Mercy into giving a speech about what would happen if the seethe created another demon-ridden vampire, and then she whispers to Mercy that "That was for my Soldier. You tell him that."  I was confused about exactly what "that" was:  that Mercy wasn't a threat unless vampires forced her to be, that creating another demon-ridden vampire would get vampires wiped out so nobody should do that, that humans were more than "food"...  What did Marsilia intend to give Stefan through Mercy's testimony?

Thanks, and happy writing!
asked by ShadoWolf in Ask Patty


The Soldier is Stefan's nickname, and Marsilia knew that he didn't approve of her decision to make another demon-ridden sorcerer. I believe that she was trying to let him know that she wasn't unaware of the risks, and perhaps implying that Marsilia may reconsider her decision.

That's my 2 cents worth :)

EDIT: added original question - charmed
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Louve_des_bois on May 11, 2009, 10:15:40 pm
I agree with Stephanieolden, it was confusing. I had to read twice, thinking "is that It?" There was a thread about Patty writing her first love scene, yes I was expecting more. At least more than in Alpha & Omega, where it was pretty clear it happened.

So I was confused and disapointed.

I like BC plot, and Patty story telling is spellbinding, but her writing is not as good as usual. I find myself reading more than once a sentence, because it is not clear what Patty means.

Okay I am a foreigner, granted, but in previous books I did not have this problem.
Also I have to read the book quite fast, because the characters' behaviour is less and less believable if I start to imaginate the scene in my mind.

I hope Ms Briggs is not loosing her skill under the pressure to write more. Perhaps it will be worthwhile to wait more to get a better finished book.

I like BC, but I think it is the weakest of the serie.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: keyboo on June 27, 2009, 11:37:45 am
I have a few quick questions.  I've been all over the site and haven't seen it, so if the answer is out there just point me in the right direction and I'll check it out.

In the beginning of BC, when Stefen is dropped in Mercy's place Adam feeds him, then Peter (a very non-dominant wolf) and then they wait for Ben to show up, but Darryl is there the whole time doing nothing.  When Adam suggests waiting for Ben, Darryl "Looked like he'd been slapped."  Why didn't Darryl help with the feeding and why did he seem to take such offense to Adam suggesting they wait for Ben?  Was it as simple as he REALLY didn't like vampires or was there something more to it?  Especially about Ben?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on June 27, 2009, 12:01:40 pm
Some of each, is what I assumed.  Darryl probably has a near pathological fear/dislike of vampires, & doesn't think much of Ben, so he's bothered on several levels by the fact that Ben will be doing this but he can/will not.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on June 27, 2009, 06:25:28 pm
I agree with Patti, I thought it was that he had a problem in his past connected to vampires. Ben is towards the bottom of the pack hierarchy, so having Ben do something he can't/ won't might be a pointed... point? whatever.

I think Adam just chose Ben bcs of the time they spent in the church basement together.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 01, 2009, 06:55:42 am
Maybe it is, because Adam didn't want to weaken his second in command, but instead chooses wolves that are more dispensable.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 01, 2009, 07:05:17 am
I've found a little detail, that irritates me in BC - yes it took a long long time and a few re-readings.

When Mercy is caught in the cage and desperately searching for a weapon, she doesn't get the idea to use the magical stab herself, it is the Fae that mentions it. Why doesn't she even think about it? I mean, even if it woudln't be a magical stab it still would be a better weapon than nothing.
But apart from this little detail I still think that BC is one of the best books in the series. And yes, I like the way Mercy copes with her rape. It is realistic and I would've hated it if she could have shrugged it off that easily. I hate those super-uberheroes.

Two reasons, I suspect.
First, she thinks of it as a STAFF, not a 'stab' or spear.
Second, it takes a heck of a lot of strength to THROW a spear right through someone's heart.  I don't think Mercy had that strength at that point.  Hadn't she been fed on and or beaten?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: twix on July 01, 2009, 11:30:43 am
It seems to me that he does still have a bond with Mercy. Blackwood had other forms of Magic that could have blocked Stefan. I mean he was able to know when exactly Mercy was alone when he was clear in Seattle. I think after Blackwood's bond was broken it went again to Stefan. I also think that maybe Stefan lied to her about the broken bond. I'm not sure for what purpose. Maybe he wants to stay tied to her without her knowing. Obviously Stefan loves Mercy (he whispered words of love to her, killed people for her and put his own life in danger for her) but he loves his mistress more. The only reason I think that is because he went back to her and when he could have turned against her and saved Mercy (and all of her friends if he did) he stayed true. And he used cleaning Mercy's hands after the trial to bother his mistress more than anything, like he was trying to prove a point and get a response from her. I think the fact he turned up at the exact moment Mercy and his mistress were fighting shows that there is some sort of bond still in place.

Stefan obviously doesn't trust himself too much around Mercy. He was sure he would have killed her. He keeps trying to tell him he is a monster and that he isn't her hero (I'm not exactly sure why that line bothered him so much). He also told her not to thank him for the second blood bond because she might not thank him later.  That shows there might be more about the second time than he let on. Maybe? Also after just one blood exchange he was able to get so far into her head he almost took her over. When she told him that he started saying you weren't meant to... then changed it to I didn't mean to. Which also showed there bond might be fairly strong already. After the second exchanged when she appeared as a coyote by her side, he looked down like he knew she would be there. Did he know? And at the lake when they were talking to Bernard she felt him tug something out of her when he pulled out his sword. Did he somehow have access to her magic?

Anyway those are some thoughts. But I do wonder if he loved his sheep the same way he loves Mercy now. Did he start out loving them all before he ended up controlling them? Bernard said he loved her more but is it true? So many questions. I love his character and his relationship with Mercy is intriguing. There interactions were my favorite of the book. :) I love Adam and Mercy together. I really do but the possibility of a Stefan/Mercy relationship is totally growing on me....

So I do think he loves both woman but I think he doesn't feel worthy of Mercy and I do think they still share the bond....

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 01, 2009, 12:28:09 pm
I wasn't aware of the difference between 'staff' and 'stab', but thank you. :3
And yeah, she could have failed when she tried to use it, but still, if you are in a cage and searching desperately for a weapon against an enemy that is going to destroy you, wouldn't you use anything, even a staff, to defend yourself?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on July 01, 2009, 12:35:15 pm
Does Mercy know how to throw a spear?
It's hard to do, especially accurately. The fact that she had trouble throwing it to the Oakman in the first place indicates that she doesn't know how to/ can't throw a stick very well.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 01, 2009, 12:38:15 pm
She didn't need to throw it she could poke him with it or something.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on July 01, 2009, 12:39:17 pm
I think Stefan was bothered by the hero line because it is an ideal he can't live up to. He is afraid that when Mercy realizes this she will hate him for deceiving her.

Possibly someone in the past saw him as a hero and he was unable to save them. Stefan wouldn't want to risk that happening again.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on July 01, 2009, 12:42:18 pm
a poke isn't going to do much good. It takes a fair amount of strength OR a fair amount of skill to take out someone with a stick.

If you are going into a fight you are probably better off with a weapon you know how to use than one you don't. Mercy knows hand to hand combat, and she knows how to fight as a coyote. Fighting with a stick is beyond her experience.

A lot of stuff will carry over, but the middle of a fight isn't the best time to find out what will work and what won't.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 02, 2009, 12:12:08 am
Maybe you are right. But somehow, I think it would have been more satisfying if she would've thought about using it, but then dismissed the idea.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 02, 2009, 12:31:47 am
Well, she's in the habit of thinking of it as something to be protected, not to protect her!  Witness how she kept sending it away while she was his captive.

Also, besides the 'keep "The Beast" from getting this power' mindset, she doesn't trust the stick; it's fae, so there's always a price.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on July 02, 2009, 06:46:30 am
Also, I didn't get the sense that the staff has an obvious pointy end, like a spear.  Nobody's suggested, "Gee, that's a sharp end on that staff" or anything similar.  So, I can see where it wouldn't occur to her to throw it as such, or stab with it.  I had the sense it was more of a magical thing - since Lugh made it, the knowledgeable would know it could be used as a spear, but Mercy didn't have that knowledge.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 02, 2009, 09:43:33 am
Well, both your explainations sound logical, so I guess you're right. From no on BC is flawless to me indeed. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on July 02, 2009, 12:35:57 pm
flawless except for Charles being the firstborn. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 03, 2009, 12:38:57 am
Uh, you are right. xD
Ah, and some of the German is wrong again, but that doesn't count. It makes it more charming.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CheeseBK on July 03, 2009, 12:58:34 am
Uh, you are right. xD
Ah, and some of the German is wrong again, but that doesn't count. It makes it more charming.

yup. ;)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Interpreter on July 03, 2009, 10:06:07 pm
Hello All,

I am a new poster and have read through most of the postings on this thread. I really enjoyed all the Mercy books.

I am thinking that the Oakman will play an important role as her new neighbor. I had the thought that he might make a passage to underhill in her backyard.

I agree that Sam is in pain and needs to come to a place of healing.

I give Patty so much credit for allowing Mercy to go through her PTSD. Kudos to Adam for supporting her.

I hope that Mercy gets to boss around Tim's spirit.  **Evil Grin** JK, the world is better off without the slimeball.

Ahhh... Stefan. My heart goes out to him.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 09, 2009, 09:57:56 am
Blackwood had other forms of Magic that could have blocked Stefan. I mean he was able to know when exactly Mercy was alone when he was clear in Seattle.


I don’t think Blackwood had any more magic other than what was shown. He did know when she was alone but wasn’t that something to do with the vampire ghost? And Mercy’s abilities have never been a secret from the supernatural world, you just had to look in the right place to keep an eye out.

And he used cleaning Mercy's hands after the trial to bother his mistress more than anything, like he was trying to prove a point and get a response from her. I think the fact he turned up at the exact moment Mercy and his mistress were fighting shows that there is some sort of bond still in place.


The bond was still in place at this moment, but Mercy was always going to go “toe to toe” with Marsilia. I loved that scene especially how everyone’s playing one-upmanship games. But Stefan wins with the hands. I love there interaction and relationship, but Stefan will never over step the line with Mercy, he might piss Adam off in toeing that line, but he wouldn’t cross it. He’s a gentleman.

Stefan obviously doesn't trust himself too much around Mercy. He was sure he would have killed her. He keeps trying to tell him he is a monster and that he isn't her hero.
 

Yeah, he’s got a very low opinion of himself, funny how he seems the most human character.

And at the lake when they were talking to Bernard she felt him tug something out of her when he pulled out his sword. Did he somehow have access to her magic?
 

No. He was drawing on her presence. Vampires need their sheep not just for blood, but they somehow make their “master” more powerful.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 09, 2009, 10:10:05 am
I give Patty so much credit for allowing Mercy to go through her PTSD. Kudos to Adam for supporting her.

I agree, wouldn’t have been right if she just bounced back. She should still be going through it in the next book, it’ll be six weeks later, won’t it? But plenty of time for Adam to put a dent in her mixed up feelings.

I hope that Mercy gets to boss around Tim's spirit.

Here’s hoping that Tim doesn’t come back as a ghost. I think she would run to Mexico and live wild.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 09, 2009, 10:38:48 am
I've got two theories:-

1.) By creating another demon-ridden vampire she was hoping to go back to Italy. Perhaps Stefan wants to go back home too and Marsilia wanted to do something for him to make it possible.

2.) Perhaps Marsilia wanted Mercy’s reaction. Didn’t Mercy say she would hunt them all, but where does Stefan come into that equation? Maybe Marsilia wanted to turn Stefan and Mercy against each other so that she can get him back.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on July 11, 2009, 12:57:04 pm
Stefan obviously doesn't trust himself too much around Mercy. He was sure he would have killed her. He keeps trying to tell him he is a monster and that he isn't her hero.
 

Yeah, he’s got a very low opinion of himself, funny how he seems the most human character.

Maybe that's part of what makes us human. Self-doubt.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Interpreter on July 11, 2009, 04:15:55 pm
I don't think that Stefan would willingly lie to Mercy and tell her that the bond between them is broken if it is not.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 12, 2009, 09:47:45 am
I don't think that Stefan would willingly lie to Mercy and tell her that the bond between them is broken if it is not.

No, I don't think he would lie, but remember in BB when he said nothing would come from the first blood bond. Probably because nothing was meant to come from that incident but you can never be too sure what's going on in Stefan's head.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 12, 2009, 09:48:44 am
-- or Mercy's reaction to magic!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Artemis on July 23, 2009, 09:05:37 am
My take on it was that Marsilia was showing the other vampires that Mercy had killed with the seethe's consent and her action had done no harm to the seethe, so she couldn't be a target for retribution -- sort of making her safe in a back-handed way. But maybe I am trusting too much in Marsilia's "kindness."
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 24, 2009, 11:05:13 am
My take on it was that Marsilia was showing the other vampires that Mercy had killed with the seethe's consent and her action had done no harm to the seethe, so she couldn't be a target for retribution -- sort of making her safe in a back-handed way. But maybe I am trusting too much in Marsilia's "kindness."

Maybe. Kind of like saving Stefan from facing Mercy's death, that would badly hurt him.

But then again Marsilia set up the whole scenario - she got what she wanted in the end.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Interpreter on July 25, 2009, 12:18:45 pm
Marsilia set the whole thing up from the beginning. She knew that there was a plot against her and needed Stefan to be outcast in order to catch the others in the plot and punish them. She needed Andre dead too. She decided to let everyone believe that she wanted another demon rider vamp because that would incite mercy to kill him, Stefan to protect mercy, then Marisilia could outcast Stefan, and thus rob the take-over its legitimacy because Stefan would not support it. That was what the trial was about.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on July 25, 2009, 12:33:21 pm
"tell him I didn't mean it"
"It wasn't real."

she wanted mercy to tell him everything was OK, he was forgiven and he should forgive her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 26, 2009, 06:32:46 am
Yeah I like that idea. Not sure about Stefan being forgiven though - he didn't do anything wrong! The whole scenario fell into place in the end and Marsilia's just sneaky and underhanded.

I'd like to know more about the other vampire (can't remember his name) Bernard's maker. And more of the games he's playing. And whether he came from Italy as well.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 26, 2009, 09:09:32 am
What Stefan did wrong was hiding Mercy's species from all the other vampires, particularly to Marsilia.

I don't remember if we ever did get the name of Bernard's maker.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 26, 2009, 09:53:19 am
What Stefan did wrong was hiding Mercy's species from all the other vampires, particularly to Marsilia.

I understand that but I don’t see it as wrong. Stefan saved Mercy’s life, if her existence was known to the seethe she would have been executed simply because her face fits. And hiding her identity didn't put the seethe in any particular danger at the time. Unless it wasn't his decision to make but it still saved from a worse outcome.

If you look at a different way and Mercy was killed by the vampires when she first moved to the tri-cities, then the vampires would have been wiped out by the werewolves when Bran found out.

Anyway just because Marsilia was jealous doesn't mean he did anything wrong and shouldn’t have to be forgiven.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 26, 2009, 09:55:47 am
I agree, but I'm human. 

Marsilia isn't, and it's her thinking that is involved here.  To her & the other vampires, Stefan did wrong in hiding that Mercy is a Walker.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 27, 2009, 11:06:02 am
Yeah true but Marsilia's got a lot more to be forgiven for. It's a tick for tack world.

Do you think her place in the seethe is settled? Or will there be anymore revolutions in the next books?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Interpreter on July 27, 2009, 11:39:10 am
The plot against Marsilia was started before BB because of her lethargy and not taking notice of her surroundings. Now that Marsilia is aware and has stirred, I think that she will not be challenged again. I think that she was challenged only because of her lethargy, which Sam and Mercy helped her recover from in BB.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Artemis on July 27, 2009, 04:32:21 pm
I think that Marsilia's biggest concern was the safety of the seethe -- she would have to balance Mercy's vampire-killing skills against Bran's anger. And I can't remember ... did anyone know that Mercy was brought up by Bran when she came to the Tri-Cities?

Marsilia tells Mercy that Stefan understands keeping the seethe safe above all, it was the danger she put Mercy in that really made Stefan angry. However, Marsilia probably thought it was an acceptable danger -- since she was acting in what she believed was the beste interests of the seethe.

We tend to sympathize with Mercy, since we see all the events from her point of view. It'd be interesting to see Patty do a short story from a villian's point of view -- even though she's got a ton of other stuff to do!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 28, 2009, 03:25:56 am
And I can't remember ... did anyone know that Mercy was brought up by Bran when she came to the Tri-Cities?

It was an open secret – if they looked in the right place they would have found the answers.

Marsilia probably thought it was an acceptable danger -- since she was acting in what she believed was the beste interests of the seethe.

Yeah. But I'd like to know what exactly Bernard’s maker was up to. Not many vampires live in America perhaps he wanted to set up his own court or something similar to the Italian vampires.

It'd be interesting to see Patty do a short story from a villian's point of view -- even though she's got a ton of other stuff to do!

That’d be good like an anthropology or something.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: tellner on August 03, 2009, 01:27:10 am
One thing I really liked a lot was the relationship between Mercy and Adam.  Loved the part at the dojo when the brown belt was coming on strong and Adam just stood by and let Mercy handle it.  When the sensei asked him why he didn't get involved, Adam makes it clear that he trusts Mercy's skills but also her common sense (to ask for help if she needs it).  I thought that was very respectful, and to me it spoke directly to the fear that Mercy had had (in previous books) that Adam would coddle her too much in his alpha/dominant need to protect.  In the scene after Adam makes Mercy pack, she thanks him for making some hard choices where she was concerned -- like when he used his alpha mojo to force her to drink the fairy juice.  Then later, when Mercy told Adam that hostage-taking is for bad guys...but he was fortunate to have such a great sidekick....  I liked very much how it was clear in this book that Adam and Mercy are peers and partners...equals.

That's just it. Adam wouldn't have "handled" it. The teacher wouldn't have let it start. Not with a student just a few days post-sexual assault who had had to kill her attacker. No way. No how. And if it did he wouldn't have let her spar a brown belt who hits too hard and has an attitude problem. And if that unlikely thing happened he would have stopped the bout a few seconds in when it was obvious they were going too fast and too hard for safety.

This wasn't a strength of the book. It was a serious weakness for anyone who's spent time in the martial arts or self defense world.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Dani on September 06, 2009, 10:52:47 am
There was a book series I read as a kid that had "zombies" rather similar to this. (its been too long for me to remember the name of the series, sorry.) In that most spirits stayed attached to their bodies because of a sense of possession. After all, what do you have if you don't have possession of your own body? What happened was that the spirits would stay bound to their bodies until the bodies had completely rotted away and nothing was left. Then, the spirits typically stuck around mourning the loss of their bodies but for a few that somehow became more sentient and would interact with the outside world.

Thats pretty much how I pictured Amber, except that the reason she stayed was for her son and not because of an attachment to her body and that when her body finally would rot away, she would have stayed as a spirit to watch over him had Mercy not intervened.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: mrsj on September 12, 2009, 08:56:42 pm
I just get to read Mercy Thompson Series and just finished reading "Bone Crossed"..

I have several mixed feelings about Adam and Mercy and at the same time.. I feel sad for Stefan..
Will he ever get a chance with Mercy? I doubt so..
Poor Stefan.. :(
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on December 17, 2009, 07:08:33 am
I have just re-read Bone Crossed. And I dont know if this has been mentioned anywhere I tried to search but had no luck... Why did Mercy heal so well after Blackwell beat her up? Was it the blood exchange with Blackwell that did it? The mate bond with Adam? Or is Mercy forming new healing powers? I didnt notice this the first time I read the book for some reason or I could have just forgot since I barreled threw it when it first came out. Re-reads are good for catching things I miss the first time around.  :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on December 17, 2009, 08:16:54 am
Best guess by me, it's still the vampire blood exchange, with potential for some pack magic from Adam.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on December 17, 2009, 10:31:55 am
That's what I thought too. With being Adam's mate now, I'm assuming Mercy has gained faster healing abilities. I'm sure we will learn more about it in Silver Borne.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 11, 2010, 07:32:19 am
Stephan's blood in Blood Bound didn't have any healing powers, it only functioned as a short-term pain-killer and hyperpotential stimulant. So my guess is, it is the bond with Adam that helps her to heal faster.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 11, 2010, 04:37:31 pm
I don't think it was the blood exchange with Stefan I think it was the ones with Blackwell.  Remember he had fed off many different types of fae and a walker as well. Just because the ability to call her was stopped by the exchange with Stefan doesn't mean other things would go away as well.  It may be pack magic but I think that the healing is a wolf thing not a pack magic thing. Don't forget that at the time of the healing Mercy's connection to the pack and the mate bond with Adam was short circuited.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 12, 2010, 05:22:27 am
Stefan's blood does heal. Didnt Stefan's blood help heal his blood donor with the cancer?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 12, 2010, 07:32:07 am
That wasn't specific to Stefan though. He was attempting to find a spin that would allow the eventual reveal of the vampires...so the healing property of their blood is a good angle.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 12, 2010, 07:40:18 am
Thank you Elle. That's a better explanation to what I was trying to say.  ;)  I was trying to respond to Pfefferminztee's post - I should have Quoted her.


Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 12, 2010, 07:46:33 am
Heh. I could have read upthread.  :-whistle
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 12, 2010, 07:52:22 am
No worries... you actually answered my question.  :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 13, 2010, 10:35:38 am
Stefan's blood does heal. Didnt Stefan's blood help heal his blood donor with the cancer?

The cancer went into retreat, she wasn't completely cured. Wasn't she worried that the cancer would come back when Stefan disappeared in BB?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 13, 2010, 03:11:05 pm
Yep!
I think Vamp blood keeps things in stasis or holds things back. And being a sheep is like an inbetween state to becoming one. I think it heals but it not as well as regenerating or being youthful like being a werewolf.
Also in Bone Crossed - Stefan did state he had something to say to Mercy about the blood exchanges but got off track when the other vamps distracted them in the river front. Maybe Stefan knew of the effects and wanted to prewarn Mercy?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 14, 2010, 09:39:01 am
Stefan's blood does heal. Didnt Stefan's blood help heal his blood donor with the cancer?

But that was leukemia. I think it just works if the failure is in the blood. I don't think it can cure everything, like a broken bone or insanity or things like that. 
So I think CarolKat may be on the right way to explain this. Blackwell did indeed drink from a lot of different creatures, who knows what his blood was capable of.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 14, 2010, 03:41:03 pm
I went back and re-read a bit.. Stefan healed Mercy's hands by licking them after she was in the Truth Chair. But again that's not from blood exchange.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 14, 2010, 03:57:32 pm
No, that was saliva. 9)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on January 15, 2010, 03:53:10 pm
soooo, if you kiss a vampire you get magic healing?

that is just gross.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 16, 2010, 04:08:29 am
LOL Now that's made my day! LOL

It must be temporary healing. Or specific to Stefan. (I'm making it up!)

But he licked her nothing more, and it's like his bite. Stefan left no marks.

*Collapses into a laughing fit.*
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 16, 2010, 09:30:45 am
Blackwell's saliva has the same powers. He left his marks on Mercy on purpose.

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 18, 2010, 05:53:25 am
I'm thinking that all Vampires can heal with their saliva. Not just a Stefan and Blackwell.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on January 18, 2010, 09:09:06 am
I know that Patty decided to have vampire saliva heal minor wounds.  The idea was that if a vampire fed from a human casually, clouded their mind a bit, and DIDN'T leave a distinctive pair of puncture wounds, the person would never know what happened.  Even for the sheep, it just makes sense not to leave them open to infection.  

Now, however, I'm having visions of vampires on production lines, spitting furiously, while an advertiser in a Billy Mays voice shouts, "ONLY VAMPODINE IS MADE WITH 20% GENUINE VAMP SALIVA, THE MIRACLE DRUG OF THE CENTURY.  OUR  PATENTED COMBINATION OF VITAMINS AND ESSENTIAL OILS TRULY MAXIMIZES IT'S HEALING PROPERTIES.  JUST WATCH THIS DEMO.  BOB - IS THIS KNIFE SHARP?  (SCREAMING FROM OFF CAMERA. . .)   I GUESS SO.  WELL, IT'S YOUR LUCKY DAY.  THAT MAY LOOK LIKE A SERIOUS WOUND, BUT WITH THIS HANDY TRAVEL-SIZE SPRAY BOTTLE OF VAMPODINE, YOU'LL BE AS GOOD AS NEW IN MINUTES!!! THAT'S RIGHT FOLKS, THROW AWAY YOUR IODINE, TRASH YOUR BETADINE, VAMPODINE IS HERE!!!"
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 18, 2010, 09:20:32 am
 *headdesk*  LOL LOL LOL   That's too funny!

Mike - You just gave me a mental vision of QVC...
"If you call in the next 20 minutes, you can get a vile of vamp saliva for just $29.99, its going fast, so hurry up and call!"
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Mike Briggs on January 18, 2010, 09:25:21 am
I love calling it a 'vile' of vampire saliva rather than a vial -- truth in advertising!   LOL LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 18, 2010, 09:41:38 am
*snickers*  :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 18, 2010, 11:21:37 am
LOL Now that's made my day!

Guess I wasn't too far off the mark. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Varg on January 18, 2010, 11:51:49 am
*snicker*
LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Piper on January 18, 2010, 04:12:25 pm
That was to funny!! Loved it!! LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ArtAngel on January 18, 2010, 09:59:29 pm
 LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: charmed on January 19, 2010, 03:47:26 pm
 LOL LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 19, 2010, 05:26:59 pm
 LOL VAMPODINE I want some!  LOL LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on January 19, 2010, 05:33:56 pm
Hmm; it would be handy for those cat scratches that take forever to heal.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 20, 2010, 02:23:24 am
I bet it works against wrinkles, too. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: IvyBRT on January 20, 2010, 10:55:53 am
lol!!!  LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 20, 2010, 11:58:24 am
Hmm; it would be handy for those cat scratches that take forever to heal.

Yes it would. My cat scratched me right across the wrist, it's in a bad place. The scar will fade within two years. In the meanwhile I'm waiting for the awkward question from work colleague, "are you self harming?"

Vampodine could be my cure. Though it might not work on scars, just fresh bites. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: wiccanmoonchild on January 20, 2010, 01:07:42 pm
 LOL . . .  LOL..... LOL

oH mY,
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on January 20, 2010, 01:57:35 pm
Might last less, I got a scratch, same place, as bad as a cat scratch, and it faded in about 6 months.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on January 20, 2010, 02:06:41 pm
*whisper*  ummm, we are off topic.


So, I really want to hear more about the Oakman.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on January 20, 2010, 02:19:41 pm
Yeah, and how that oaktree is related to him.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: charmed on January 20, 2010, 02:46:04 pm
Related? Hmmm, I just assumed it was a regular oak tree that he used magic on. It never occurred to me that it might be a relative. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on January 20, 2010, 03:02:42 pm
That's not quite the type of related I ment. How it was connected to him, I guess I should have said.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: charmed on January 20, 2010, 03:05:49 pm
Ah, ok. Got it :D  :-[
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 20, 2010, 03:48:55 pm
LOL

Mercy helped the Oakman and could get a gift in return...I don't like fae favours, there's always something nasty attached.

Unless all she got was the tree, at least her backyard looks better. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 20, 2010, 03:52:47 pm
Or is the tree the Oakman... or his home?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on January 20, 2010, 06:34:05 pm
I'd sort of assumed it was him, but if it had been, Mercy wouldn't have said "thank you".

I wonder if it's a child of his, somehow.  I'd be curious how old it "should" be.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 20, 2010, 06:34:35 pm
You mean the tree in Mercy's yard? I always thought it was a gift from the Oakman to Mercy as a thanks for her part in rescuing him. Just a tree. I thought after his years in captivity he would go to live in Underhill to regain his health.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 20, 2010, 06:54:57 pm
I don't think it's "just a tree". I think it has something like the walking stick and will follow her when she changes residence.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 20, 2010, 06:57:28 pm
Interesting theory. :) I'm surprised at how many readers have different ideas about it. I do like the idea of it following her but I don't think it's anything more than a tree. Good 'Ask Patty' question.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 21, 2010, 03:51:32 am
I thought he died and at the place of his remains grew that tree.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 21, 2010, 05:04:29 am
I thought he died and at the place of his remains grew that tree.

That's what I thought too.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on January 21, 2010, 07:09:17 am
I threw a question in the 'Ask Patty' section about it.

I have to say I'm definitely curious what everyone else is thinking about this oak tree. :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 21, 2010, 08:01:50 am
I thought he died and at the place of his remains grew that tree.
That's what I thought too.

The oakman did die. But why would Mercy bury him in her yard?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 21, 2010, 08:06:54 am
I thought he died and at the place of his remains grew that tree.
That's what I thought too.

The oakman did die. But why would Mercy bury him in her yard?

Yeah, well, he used his last bit of magic to put his 'remains', which are the oaktree, into her garden. Perhaps that's the way he can rest in peace?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on January 21, 2010, 08:07:24 am
We don't know for certain that the oakman died.  Mercy took his body out in the sunlight, because she said that fae were much more resilient, and it might help him.  And then his body was gone.  I got the sense that he might be alive, and that the oak tree was a definite indicator that he was alive and grateful.  

Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on January 21, 2010, 08:25:35 am
I agree, I think the oak tree is a definite sign that he lived - whether he gave the tree or is the tree is another question.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on January 21, 2010, 09:55:29 am
He died at Blackwell's house; how would that bring his tree to Mercy's place?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Kate on January 21, 2010, 10:33:03 am
Same way the walking stick keeps showing up?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: alan on January 21, 2010, 01:07:24 pm
 :-LOVEWalking Stick
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Has on January 21, 2010, 01:43:33 pm
I dont think the Oakman died. My thoughts are that either he's recovering and healing in her yard or the tree is a gift from the Oakman but I dont think he's dead. I got a feeling we will see him in future books ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on January 21, 2010, 01:48:22 pm
Has, that's an excellent guess/set in my opinion, about what I was thinking of.  Couldn't get/didn't bother to get it into words like you did, though.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on January 21, 2010, 02:41:28 pm
you know...

mercy seems to be attracting alot of Fae sidekicks, what with the walking stick and the oak tree and the book...  Tad and Zee.... Nemain kinda liked her...

you have to wonder if all of those threads are going to appear in the next book, or if some of them aren't going to be resolved.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Ellyll on January 21, 2010, 02:58:51 pm
Okay, those of us who were in the 'Donnell didn't die' camp are correct.  The oakman lives.  :)

See HERE (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4013.msg211874#msg211874)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 21, 2010, 06:59:52 pm
Awesome!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pfefferminztee on January 22, 2010, 12:50:53 am
Even better. :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on January 22, 2010, 05:22:37 am
Makes me wonder what the Oakman knew about the walking stick. Does anyone think the walking stick will leave Mercy soon?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 22, 2010, 05:36:21 am
Okay, those of us who were in the 'Donnell didn't die' camp are correct.  The oakman lives.  :)

See HERE (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4013.msg211874#msg211874)

Mystery solved! Very nice gift for Mercy.  :D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on January 22, 2010, 06:55:28 am
Ooh, good to have that known. Glad he lived. Nice tree.  :)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 22, 2010, 07:36:36 am
Somehow I think when she moves in with Adam that tree will follow, after all it is a gift for her from the Oakman.  I don`t think he`d want someone else taking care if it
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on January 22, 2010, 08:21:45 am
Somehow I think when she moves in with Adam that tree will follow, after all it is a gift for her from the Oakman.  I don`t think he`d want someone else taking care if it
That when is an interesting point, Mercy wasn't sure she was going to, though I guess if Sam sorts himself out then she'd be more likely to.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: lilliana on January 22, 2010, 08:23:51 am
Plus, Mercy really likes her independence. I think moving in with Adam will come much much later.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 22, 2010, 03:21:39 pm
I am sure at some point (don't know when but it is certainly not an if) Mercy will move in with Adam, they are mated after all.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on January 22, 2010, 03:23:15 pm
And heaven knows, short of the gooberment (or Christie) confiscating all his belongings, HE's not moving in with her!
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on January 22, 2010, 03:24:52 pm
Very good point Patti!  LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: faeofwind on February 03, 2010, 12:08:45 am
about Darryl's vampire phobia?

I was hoping it would come into play later, but it didn't and now I'm terribly curious!

Just wondering if anyone put any pieces together from previous novels. I love a good secret.

(New to these forums, so hello to everyone!  :P)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on February 03, 2010, 07:01:30 am
Hi faeofwind, welcome!

Yes, there's definitely a story there and I can't wait to hear what it is as well. There hasn't been any real mention of it before BC and Darryl's not a very old werewolf so maybe it was something that happened in the Los Alamos pack? I'd love to know where the phobia came from.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Temari on February 03, 2010, 08:13:54 am
Would it need to come from something specific? I could quite understand someone generally being phobic of vampires, they are pretty scary, and Stephen certainly was at the time Darryl saw him.

another thought - was it actually a phobia of vampires? Or of relinquishing control by letting Stephen feed?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Zealith on February 03, 2010, 08:31:33 am
Maybe he just has issues with being bitten.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 03, 2010, 11:05:12 am
But he doesn't have a problem fighting for his place as Adam's second, so it's not just biting... And Adam seemed to basically know about and accept it, so it's been there long enough for him to have learned about it.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Avarel on February 03, 2010, 11:20:18 am
In order for Adam to know about it, it has probably come up as an issue before...

Exactly what was the relationship between the vampires and werewolves before Mercy killed Andre?
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: midnight on February 03, 2010, 01:24:19 pm
Also, in bc Adam mentions that on a full moon night, in werewolf form he can read any member of his pack. He uses this power to build a strong pack. It might be that Adam has seen memories of Darryls past, specifically regarding the vampires.


 
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: dixiehellcat on May 10, 2010, 06:54:20 pm
Ok, I'm about halfway thru BC, so reading as little of the discussion here as possible so as not to spoil the upcoming goodies, but I simply must squee--Mercy knows about the Bell Witch! (dances) And what facts she quotes are spot on, too. Bless you, Patty!!  bOuNcY

(it takes so little to make me happy, like someone shouting out Tennessee's most famous creepiness.)
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Aglaia on July 08, 2010, 12:08:23 pm
Hey okay i keep meaning to ask but i'm always forgetting  :P
In Bone crossed when Stefan heals Mercy's hands, i don't understand why Adam gets angry? Am i being niavie  :-[ ?

I like Mercy, thought the show was for Marsilla, i don't understand why Stefan was trying to anger Adam or if he even was?
Anyone care to explain ?? 
Thankyou     ~Kelly
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: CarolKat on July 08, 2010, 06:13:15 pm
OK, here goes.

Adam was angry because Mercy is his mate even though at that point it is not yet final. Stefan doesn't know that  she has accepted Adam as her mate and at this point she is in essence one of his "sheep" and even though Stefan would never take advantage of that he still loves Mercy in his own way (she treats him just like anyone else) he needed to play this up for Marsilla and stick it to Adam just a little.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on July 08, 2010, 07:56:44 pm
And Adam, as a werewolf, and as a man who has come to love Mercy, was claiming her romantically, as well as denying Stephan's claim. 
He also is very worried for her, either at Stephan's 'hands' or at those of the other vampires.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Pendle on July 09, 2010, 05:09:23 am
Also, as her mate, Adam feels he has the right to protect and care for Mercy, whereas Stefan infringes.

And even he said “Mercy belongs to anyone she chooses”, he’s probably miffed about the deeper meaning. He doesn’t want to lose her.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on August 14, 2010, 05:51:31 pm
I've got to agree. Mercy is the kind of person who doesn't care about a little bit of mess, while Adam is a neat freak through and through. That and what would the pack do about Mercy moving in I wonder? :-whistle
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on August 18, 2010, 03:41:09 pm
That and the whole Dominant=protective thing LOL
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Elle on December 30, 2010, 09:26:28 am
Have started Bone Crossed this morning. Such a great opening scene with Mercy and Adam. I'm definitely curious about Margi and hope we see more of her. I'd love find out why Darryl has such issues with vampires.
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ElefiNecol on December 30, 2010, 09:42:44 am
I read it a few days ago; I think one of my favorite moments is when Marsilia says, "I do think I would have liked you, Mercedes..." "If you weren't what you are, and I wasn't what I am."  So many "Onions" in the books.  ;D
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: little gray wolf on February 04, 2011, 08:21:52 pm
onions? ???
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2011, 08:24:26 pm
I suspect she means it's like an onion, you peel back the surface, and there's a new layer with different meaning, and you peel that back, and there's another, and another, and...
Title: Re: Bone Crossed Discussion
Post by: ElefiNecol on February 05, 2011, 08:04:17 am
Exactly. :)