The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Characters Board => The Weres => Individual Characters => Topic started by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 04, 2007, 05:05:36 pm

Title: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 04, 2007, 05:05:36 pm
i dont think jesse would want to be one after seeing all the bad the weres did when they kidnapped her.  i think she won't want to be one
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 04, 2007, 05:20:36 pm
In spite of the years of good memories, and the were who rescued her?  And her dad?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 04, 2007, 05:23:29 pm
yes, i think it will be a while before whe even thinks about it after what that one wolf did to her.   she is definitely scarred.  especially seeing what were's have done to her friends also (warrren) and how they act (warren) when they loose control - she must have heard some of it
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Talking_Mouse on December 04, 2007, 05:33:01 pm
Adam may also counsel her not to become a werewolf until/unless she has found a male who is high enough in dominance to make he life in the pack enjoyable.  Being owned sexual by the alpha, as a unmated female, is not what I think Adam would want for his daughter. 

She may also not think the risk/reward ratio is that good.  More females than males die instead of becoming werewolves, so her risk there is high.   She also will not have her father's protection, unless he is her Alpha.  I doubt that, now, she wants her dad as her Alpha.  For any American teenager having her father being able to give a command and she has to obey it would be the pits.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 04, 2007, 05:42:04 pm
Fortunately, this probably won't come up for quite some time.  Don't forget, Jessie's a very smart, generally rather normal girl.  She (emotional scarring aside) knows she has time.  She can do all the 'normal' stuff for 30, 40, 50 years, *then* get changed.  And she won't have her mothers regrets of not being able to have children if she has children before she lets herself be tied to some male were.  And then there she'll be, a mom, grand mom, maybe a great-grand-mother, looking 20ish, no arthritis, no osteoperosis, so chance of having a child unexpectedly, or catching a disease from whoever she might manage to see before she's tied to whatever male were -- if the revolution hasn't come, and the mating thing can be put aside.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 04, 2007, 05:46:41 pm
true, but by then the world may know about vampires and not be accepting of any type of preternatural creatures so she may not want to get the rest of her  family involved in that more that she has to because of her dad

then of course there is her mom who, in my opinion, wouldn't allow her to become a were period
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 04, 2007, 06:02:54 pm
40 years from now (although legally in 5 or so) she's not going to be able to prevent it, unless she does something to extend her life too.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 04, 2007, 06:17:55 pm
thats true too, and jesse doesn't exactly stick by her mom as much as her dad
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pink Elephants on December 05, 2007, 07:15:49 am
I think she might do it just to tick her mom off.

But then not because she is a smart girl. The hair might be her way of rebeling though. I know it would drive my mom nuts.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 05, 2007, 09:49:23 am
i hink thats probably as far as jesse will go with her rebelion, i don't think she will really try to become a were with all the consequences
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pink Elephants on December 06, 2007, 10:03:49 am
She might tell her mom that she was going to become a were tho just to spin her up.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Spryte on December 06, 2007, 12:43:30 pm
I don't think Jessie will do anything so drasatic just to get a rise out off anyone. She's too smart for that. Furthermore, she's too mature for that. She may decide to attempt the change when she's older, but I don't see that happening for at least a few more years.

But then, who knows what may happen in the net couple of books that may change her mind.

There are several scenarios I can think of in which the only way for her to live would be for her to give up her human existance.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on December 06, 2007, 03:41:21 pm
ohh interesting developments, that could be a possibility
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: berneynator on March 10, 2008, 02:25:44 pm
Quote
And then there she'll be, a mom, grand mom, maybe a great-grand-mother, looking 20ish, no arthritis, no osteoperosis,

Is it specifically stated that old people, when changed, age backward to a peak state? I thought their cells kept regenerating perfect copies of what's already there, but if what's already there is damaged...

Also, on the topic of Jesse wanting to change- I have trouble seeing Adam going for that. He obviously loves her a lot and would be devastated if she died, and not very many women successfully make the change. As I think the 4th most Alpha/dominant male in the US, even if she tried to get someone else to do it she'd probably have a lot of trouble. I also can't see her making the change as a rebellious gesture- she's a smart kid, and taking chances with your life over your curfew or not being allowed to go far away for college is just stupid. She can wait her mother out, and I don't get the feeling she's really rebelling against Adam, even if she enjoys shaking him up once in a while and helping Mercy drive him nuts. On the other hand, if she did decide to make the change and found someone willing to help her, she's smart and strong and willful- exactly the kind of qualities you seem to find in someone who successfully makes the change.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Litwolf on December 23, 2008, 04:20:25 pm
So far, we've never seen Jesse's thoughts about living so close to her father's Pack. Sure, she's been caught in the middle werewolf problems (getting kidnapped by the wolves in MC, at the very least) and she's seen the violent lives the Pack leads (Warren getting very badly injured in BB) but we've also seen her to be very relaxed around Adam's Pack. Jesse said she went right up to Mac when he was in wolf form (a wolf she didnt know) and pet him. And, whenever she talks to Mercy about her being able to change into a coyote, I always get the feeling she says it in a wistful way, wishing she had a power like that.

But Im getting slightly off track.

My point is that she is very at home among werewolves. Obviously, this comes from having an Alpha for a father and, therefore, she is always surrounded by the werewolf way of life. Being able to see both the pros and cons of being a werewolf, do you think Jesse would ever consider attempting the Change to werewolf? More importantly, do you think Adam, her father, would ever let her make her own choice or would he outright refuse to let any of his wolves Change her?

I dont know if she would actually go through with it but I could see this being an issue in a later book; something to inspire a girl talk with Mercy and Honey, maybe?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Gerd D. on December 24, 2008, 04:05:08 am
I don't think Adam would allow anyone to change his daughter, as Alpha and father his protective instinks would overrule any reasoning there.

I guess being a werewolf and the added bonus of immortality must be tempting at Jesse age. On the other hand you go trough so many changes as it already is in that part of life, and Jesse did more so than some others, that she probably cherishes this small bit of stability that being just human brings. But then again, seeing Mercy's ability to shift to coyote free of any drawbacks ... well, that's certainly a different story.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kate on December 24, 2008, 07:20:28 am
I'm with Gerd. Given the low percentage of successful were-transformations vs. the high percentage of deaths, I think Adam would be right against it.

Of course, whether Jesse would listen to him if she really made up her mind... that's another story.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 07:27:09 am
There was a discussion of this earlier on another thread. 
My guess is that barring something life-threatening or old age, Adam would fight it.  Of course, if Jesse got attacked like Anna, say if she was traveling in Europe --!
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: gryphon340 on December 24, 2008, 10:23:57 am
if that happen there not be a eruo wolf left alive. sourched wolf policy.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 12:06:05 pm
That assumes it's casual or semi deliberate, Gryphon.
If someone like Justin, who turned Anna was unsupervised, though?  I can see a hunt for that wolf, yes, and maybe some general housecleaning of Europe, but no, the Euros would seriously fight back.
Or African, or Asian; whatever.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 12:28:40 pm
I can see Adam not letting Jesse change until she starts getting old. Then he will realise he is going to lose her and may not be so stubborn.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: gryphon340 on December 24, 2008, 12:55:37 pm
Adam wouldn't care he wipe them out, with a little help from David.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 02:06:14 pm
I disagree; he knows perfectly well that there are abbarant individuals; it was one such that turned him & David, after all.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: gryphon340 on December 24, 2008, 02:07:42 pm
Overprotactive father, not one left live.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 05:56:59 pm
Well, I'm sorry, I disagree.  Control freak Alpha, taking care of his whole pack, deed done, daughter alive & able to join his pack?
Surgical strike is still my opinion.

If she died, I could see the whole Columbia Basin pack getting behind that, but not if Jesse survived.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 06:01:49 pm
I have to agree with Patti here. (Sorry Gryph :-*) I can see Adam really wanting to go berserk and wanting to kill them all. But I don't think he would actually kill them, hurt them badly yes. But as Alpha he is too much of a politician (for a werewolf) to do anything irreperable.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 06:25:00 pm
Normally I'd agree with Gryph, but Adam is fourth strongest alpha in the US.  You don't get to hold that title for as long as he has without stupid amounts of self control and restraint.

He'd have everyone involved with changing her turned into fur rugs, but he wouldn't go all "Scorched Wolf" on the whole continent.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 07:06:36 pm
E brought up the reaction when Jesse was bullied by humans, and I promised a reply here.  Then I got distracted by customers, so I'm late.

When Jesse was attacked by those punks Adam was already strained by having the 'hole' from Mercy being declared his mate, but not accepting or denying it.  Honey mentioned how he took all of the negative effects on himself, how that left him off balance and not as controlled as he normally was.  I think now that he's getting resilution with Mercy (as implied by the teaser chapter) he would be much better able to control himself.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Ellyll on December 24, 2008, 07:08:23 pm
Hmm.  Good point.  :D
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 07:11:25 pm
Also. He was totally pissed off but he did not press the point even though he knew Mercy knew the scent of the kids... so that shows even more restraint
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 07:14:32 pm
Yes, although having Mercy be the one who knew might have been the one thing that kept him from flipping out.  Her effect in that situation could be attributed to either side of the arguement.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 07:15:17 pm
Hmm. True.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 07:22:04 pm
Sorry, hon.  I have an unfair advantate since it's daytime here, and I have no children to keep me up at night, too excited to sleep.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 07:29:11 pm
I had a thought a few minutes ago about Adam going berserk if Jesse was turned.
And that was; berserk, hmm.  Like Bran?  Now there's a scorched wolf/earth policy for you.  And even that was only one forest.  I think that's where Bran would step in.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 07:33:56 pm
I definitely see Bran around should Jesse be attacked. He would have to be. Adam and the pack would need him
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 07:37:47 pm
There would be vists, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: gryphon340 on December 24, 2008, 08:14:55 pm
Better yet Bran sourching the Ero wolves for turning her. with a little Help from David.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 08:16:02 pm
There.  What did I tell you?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 08:18:07 pm
Tell us? That Gryph just wants to see sme scorching OR
Tell gryph? That Adam would not do the scorching.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 08:18:49 pm
Both.  I think that Gryph is just blood thirsty when it comes to the Eurowerewolves.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on December 24, 2008, 08:21:11 pm
Both.  I think that Gryph is just blood thirsty when it comes to the Eurowerewolves.
Yup.  But mostly the latter.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: gryphon340 on December 24, 2008, 08:24:32 pm
I like Jesse too much to see her turned,  the semi innocence of her makes a grounding force for both Adam and Mercy and other pack members. If she was for reason by evil doers (doesn't have ero-wolves or Vamps).
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 08:27:01 pm
Actually gryph- I have to agree with that, for now. Not later though, when she starts getting old.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 08:28:37 pm
I agree with the grounding influence bit, Gryph.  I don't think that she's as enamoured of the were lifestyle as she is of the were's in her fathers pack.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 08:44:33 pm
She probably hero worships them. Although being a teenager living with so many muscular, testosterone filled men... drool. Lucky kid!  ;D
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: gryphon340 on December 24, 2008, 08:46:59 pm
She almost too young to drool, beside she got Mercy's shop boy wrapped around her finger almost as tight as her Father.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on December 24, 2008, 08:52:56 pm
She almost too young to drool,

Juliette was about 13 remember! And I hate to tell you but I started drooling in grade 3 ;D.

beside she got Mercy's shop boy wrapped around her finger almost as tight as her Father.

She is young and female. She may like Gabriel alot but she will definitely notice the wolves. You drool without being serious about it you know ;)
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: OTenshi on December 24, 2008, 08:56:32 pm
After being kidnapped by them, and seeing what some did to her father I seriously doubt she has that many dilusions left about their lifestyle.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: The Deposed King on December 25, 2008, 07:48:17 pm
Yes, although having Mercy be the one who knew might have been the one thing that kept him from flipping out.  Her effect in that situation could be attributed to either side of the arguement.

Adam knows that if he's over protective he could cause a rift with his daughter.  In most cases he probably couldn't restrain himself as he's the sole parental person looking out for her and he basically would have to act and once he started to act would over react.

But with Mercy his potential 'mate' dealing with part of the situation, he can avoid the sort of over protectiveness which might start driving his daughter out of his life, while at the same time have someone he trusts monitoring the more sensitive parts of the situation.  And of course having Mercy act as more of a parental/mother figure to his daughter, helps tie her more closely to himself and his family.  Showing a lack of trust in mercy is more likely to harm both his relationship with her and his daughter than anything else.  And he had other avenues of discovering what went on as needed.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: alan on March 31, 2009, 03:09:53 pm
I think if Jesse was Changed she be to stubborn to die without a huge fight.  And i dont think Adam could stop her from wanting to be Changed because she's just like him.  If it came down to it and she was old and starting to die perhaps Adam would change his mind because the threat of losing her to the Change was less hurtful then letting her die slowly from old age.  If he had a way to save his only child i think he'd do it.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Zealith on March 31, 2009, 03:21:35 pm
By that point there will be a good chance she won't be his only child.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: cavaliergirl on June 05, 2009, 04:07:25 am
I can't see Adam agreeing to let Jesse change.  It would have to happen as an attack that Adam couldn't stop, or behind Adam's back.  Once the change happened and she was going to live, well, he might short-term be angry, but would get over it fast.  He's old enough to have seen his contemporaries age and die, and he won't want that to happen to his daughter.  I don't think he would go beserk about the change.

However, he might lose it totally if the change failed.  It fails most of the time, and women are more likely than men to die. 

Supposing it succeeds, I wonder if Jesse would be dominant or submissive, or how dominant she'd be.  She manages to stand up to Adam's rage over the incident Gabriel saved her from, where the teenagers from her school attacked her.  That would take a lot of fortitude, especially for a kid.

Regarding speculation I've seen on the other threads about Jesse/Samuel, I don't think she'd be the right mate for Samuel.  Aside from all of the age considerations, Jesse is exasperated with her father's protectiveness.  I think he'd try to treat Jesse the same way, and it would make her unhappy. 

I'd love to, eventually, after the whole Mercy and Anna series end, see a series around Jesse.  I think, 10 years from now, she might do pretty well with Ben.  Jesse needs to grow up and Ben needs to heal.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on June 05, 2009, 05:58:28 am
Jesse's personality is frankly more Coyote, less wolf, so I wonder how that could work out, on the dominance issue.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: The Deposed King on June 05, 2009, 08:39:15 am
Jesse's personality is frankly more Coyote, less wolf, so I wonder how that could work out, on the dominance issue.

It seems to me the very change of becoming a were wolf and then later being in a pack structure, mean that if you were a round peg going into things.  You will be forced through their square hole.  So even if you were originally without sharp edges or sides, the square hole you're put through shaves off your smooth even surface and you end up more appropriately were-wolf personality looking.

She'd be changed by the experience that's a given.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: alan on June 05, 2009, 10:38:04 am
I think, 10 years from now, she might do pretty well with Ben.  Jesse needs to grow up and Ben needs to heal.

Ohhh, I never thought about that fully.  That'd be interesting, but would Adam let her and him?  I mean he knows that Ben is an *ss would he let her be with him?  Or even let him turn her?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: IvyBRT on June 05, 2009, 03:34:31 pm
Hmm... I don't think that they will change Jesse in to a wolf, but I do think that she will end up with a wolf as a partner. ;D ???
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: cavaliergirl on June 05, 2009, 03:41:24 pm
I think, 10 years from now, she might do pretty well with Ben.  Jesse needs to grow up and Ben needs to heal.

Ohhh, I never thought about that fully.  That'd be interesting, but would Adam let her and him?  I mean he knows that Ben is an *ss would he let her be with him?  Or even let him turn her?

Think about how Ben seemed almost hurt that Darryl, Adam and Mercy all wanted to keep Jesse away from him.  Obviously, Ben has deep issues.  Adam said that being a wolf would give you time to deal with issues, or time to destroy yourself.  If Ben deals with his issues and becomes a better person, why not?  Obviously, this would have to happen much, much later in the series.  Ben has certainly come a long way so far, from suspected rapist, to a man who stopped rapes, took a bullet and put himself in harms way to save others, and made himself vulnerable to help Adam and Mercy after the attack.  He's improving. 
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Gerd D. on June 06, 2009, 02:45:23 am
Hmm... I don't think that they will change Jesse in to a wolf, but I do think that she will end up with a wolf as a partner. ;D ???

Given that according to Freud we are prone to pick partners that remind us of our parents that sounds probable. :)
What ever he will be, I guess she is prone to pick the alpha males, which should lead to an interesting relationship where non is willing to bow down.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: The Deposed King on June 06, 2009, 09:57:40 am
Hmm... I don't think that they will change Jesse in to a wolf, but I do think that she will end up with a wolf as a partner. ;D ???

Given that according to Freud we are prone to pick partners that remind us of our parents that sounds probable. :)
What ever he will be, I guess she is prone to pick the alpha males, which should lead to an interesting relationship where non is willing to bow down.


Freud was a quack.  He advocated the scientific principle(his great contribution to psycology) without really practicing it himself.

But sure she's likely to pick a more dominant than submissive personality for a partner.  An alpha?  Doubtful, there just aren't that many out there and the ones that are are generally much much older than her and the chances of forming a genuine relationship are low.  A future alpha?  Mucn more of a possibility.


The Deposed King
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on July 09, 2009, 09:18:22 am
I wonder if Jesse will become a werewolf.  I wonder what Adam and Mercy's reaction would be if she asked to become a werewolf.  Such a risky proposition...

Can’t see it happening. Jesse seems sure of herself to a point. She’s a human chameleon, she’s got some insecurities she’s hiding from, but becoming a werewolf is way to permanent. But why do you think she’s hiding?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: The Deposed King on July 13, 2009, 04:09:44 pm
I wonder if Jesse will become a werewolf.  I wonder what Adam and Mercy's reaction would be if she asked to become a werewolf.  Such a risky proposition...

Can’t see it happening. Jesse seems sure of herself to a point. She’s a human chameleon, she’s got some insecurities she’s hiding from, but becoming a werewolf is way to permanent. But why do you think she’s hiding?

Because she's a teenager?  Or beyond that because she's a teenager whose trying to become her own independent person with a father whose an alpha/dominant werewolf? Because if you want a private life in such a situation you have to fight for whatever part of it you can't hide in plain sight?


The Deposed King
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on July 13, 2009, 04:45:09 pm
I just don't see Jesse going for it unless it's to save her life until she's at least 40.  She's HIGHLY aware of the reproductive issues for female werewolves, or even the wives of werewolves, courtesy of her mother's issues.  She's young to want children yet, so she may not be worried about it this minute, but she's also high IQ, and observant/smart.  She will be leaving her reproductive options open for the next 20 years, I believe.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Mister from Dresdenland on November 07, 2009, 08:24:12 am
She probably hero worships them. Although being a teenager living with so many muscular, testosterone filled men... drool. Lucky kid!  ;D

Of course, everyone would be able to smell it if she did. Including her father...
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Varg on November 07, 2009, 08:43:47 am
She probably hero worships them. Although being a teenager living with so many muscular, testosterone filled men... drool. Lucky kid!  ;D

Of course, everyone would be able to smell it if she did. Including her father...
Yikes! not a happy teenage moment if it happens....
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on November 07, 2009, 08:47:44 am
Also not a happy werewolf.  Not for a moment, either.  For a looooong time.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Mister from Dresdenland on November 07, 2009, 08:56:46 am
To be honest, I didn't think of the idea all by myself. A similar situation came up in Moon's Fury by Cathy Clamp and CT Adams. Reading through this thread reminded me of it.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ladylynx on November 29, 2009, 06:34:56 am
I think Jesse just might want to remain human to make a life for herself and give dear ole' dad grand kids down the road. She see's what the pack goes through and knows how she would be treated. As for Mercy, I would think considering their relationship with one another, She'll be happy to support Jesse any way she can. Their like big sister, little sister type of relationship. Even if Adam and Mercy get marry, it will always be that type of relationship with her. Mercy doesn't want to be the step mother. God knows, she has plenty of reasons why not, but be Jesse's friend and big sister to her.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 03, 2010, 08:22:40 am
Sorry if someone already asked this, but do the children of Werewolves have a higher probability of surviving the change? I think it makes senses.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on February 03, 2010, 08:47:42 am
No they don't. A child of a werewolf is 100% human so the chances of survival are the same as everybody else.

This is why I can't see Jesse becoming a werewolf. Her chances are poor. Worse for women anyway. That and Jesse has a slightly better idea how the game works.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 03, 2010, 09:40:52 am
Nope, or Samuel would be more likely to have surviving children.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 03, 2010, 12:22:23 pm
Is still don't see why its not like that. Even though the child of a werewolf is 100% human they would still carry genetic material from their werewolf father. These recessive genes could have an effect on their chances of surviving the change (good or bad). It makes sense, Genetic disorders can be passed down and even if a child does not demonstrate the disorder (children born human) they can still carry the gene.

People with a family history of cancer are higher risk. This doesn't mean they WILL get cancer but they are more prone to getting it. Why is it not the same with werewolves.

I actually have a hard time with the assertion that these "human" children don't inherit ANYTHING from their immortal parent. I'm betting they have better immune systems, heather hearts, longer life expectancies, and keen social senses. What if the "werewolf" is just burred really deep?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 03, 2010, 12:33:31 pm
That does seem logical, Lord Raken, and further, if the ability to survive the attack that turns the person is even partly genetic, it seems logical that the werewolf survivor's children would inherit that too.

However -- and anyone who knows more about genetics than I do (most people) should feel free to step in here -- sometimes that backfires, doesn't it? 
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Zealith on February 03, 2010, 01:23:44 pm
True, first of all how can we tell what influences who survives the change. It could be something completely unrelated to genetics, like having had a good meal before hand. (Though that's unlikely the cause.) However, if you're willing to pull epigenetics into this, there is a good chance that the survivability rate would change. Better or worse rate is is a toss up though.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 03, 2010, 01:38:25 pm
I agree that the determining factor could be something other than genetics, but I think it would have to be more concrete that "magic."

If I remember correctly, there was something in one of the books that talks about how the victim needs to be severely wounded enough so that the immune system and/or body can't fight back anymore. This suggest the "Were strain" is both magical and viral in nature.

Another question is: So do the children of Werewolves have a greater immunity to the change or a genetic predisposition? I'm leaning toward the latter.

Another thought. If they do indeed have the predisposition, then would they have to suffer as severe an attack as a regular human or could they be changed with lesser wounds?


Going on another tangent: If two people who are the children of or descendants of werewolves have a child could the recessive Genes express themselves and result in a natural born Werewolf? ( I understand that this is unlikely in Mercy's world) I mean, why does the child have to be born with the ability to change? Why couldn't it wait until the child had matures, like making it most of the way through puberty before the wolf traits really start to manifest? Kinda like puberty on steroids... you get all emotional, you're pumped full or hormones, new desires kick in, you get all hairy, and you turn into a monster once a month (ok, bad joke... sorry)
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 03, 2010, 01:45:28 pm
Okay, this is interesting but it doesn't actually bear on JESSE THE WEREWOLF.  Maybe we need to check for a more appropriate thread for this discussion?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 03, 2010, 03:24:27 pm
Okay, this is interesting but it doesn't actually bear on JESSE THE WEREWOLF.  Maybe we need to check for a more appropriate thread for this discussion?

Agreed. This probably merits another thread. Will you start it or shall I?

But I'll bring the conversation back to this thread. Basically my previous theories suggest that IF Jesse were to chose to become a werewolf or has the choice made for her then she should have a greater likelihood to survive the change. Of course this is all dependent of Briggs' world building that the rules she has created.

I think Jesse would rather be a Walker like Mercy (her personality fits better). I'm pretty sure Adam would be resistant to Jesse becoming a werewolf... more because of the possibility of Jesse dieing rather than becoming a werewolf. Adam is not the type of werewolf who hates what he is. He know there are benefits as well as challenges. If forced to chose between risking the change and watching Jesse die I think its safe to say that he would allow her to attempt the change.

But what if Jesse want to attempt the change while she's perfectly healthy? What would drive Jesse to want the change? What would make her willing to make the necessary sacrifices? I don't have any real answers to those questions.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: The Deposed King on February 03, 2010, 11:31:35 pm
Okay, this is interesting but it doesn't actually bear on JESSE THE WEREWOLF.  Maybe we need to check for a more appropriate thread for this discussion?

Agreed. This probably merits another thread. Will you start it or shall I?

But I'll bring the conversation back to this thread. Basically my previous theories suggest that IF Jesse were to chose to become a werewolf or has the choice made for her then she should have a greater likelihood to survive the change. Of course this is all dependent of Briggs' world building that the rules she has created.

I think Jesse would rather be a Walker like Mercy (her personality fits better). I'm pretty sure Adam would be resistant to Jesse becoming a werewolf... more because of the possibility of Jesse dieing rather than becoming a werewolf. Adam is not the type of werewolf who hates what he is. He know there are benefits as well as challenges. If forced to chose between risking the change and watching Jesse die I think its safe to say that he would allow her to attempt the change.

But what if Jesse want to attempt the change while she's perfectly healthy? What would drive Jesse to want the change? What would make her willing to make the necessary sacrifices? I don't have any real answers to those questions.


I have an answer.  Terminal cancer that's going to kill her within weeks.  At that point even Adam could be brought around to the idea... after he'd failed to find some sort of magical cure.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 04, 2010, 05:11:50 am
That could works but it seems a little too easy. What are the chances of Jesse developing cancer at her age? They already used that for the vet in Montana.

And I doubt the child of a werewolf would be anywhere near the "risk" group for cancer. She probably inherited some of her fathers immune system.

Why cancer? Could be some other disease... maybe it could even be a result of her were/human mix. How is that for making Adam feel guilty.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: berryblu on February 04, 2010, 12:02:56 pm
However, it does not seem that becoming a werewolf affects the basic genetic code of the individual in regards to reproduction.  Werewolf males produce normal human children without any of the magics of the werewolf themselves.  Whatever makes a werewolf does not affect the DNA of the person.  It must be wholly magical in effect, perhaps more of a magical disease that one catches but that is not infectious without an injury.  Therefore, Jesse would have the exact same chances of surviving as any other woman in that world, i.e. not very good.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: alan on February 04, 2010, 12:05:11 pm
Lucky her.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 04, 2010, 02:11:37 pm
I've always thought that even "magic" would leave marks upon the world that science could measure. It makes sense that if some magic changes you at that fundamental a level then it would also change you genetically... even if all the changes can't be explained by genetics.

A cool theory: In becoming a werewolf the magi digs up a bunch of old Genetic material from earlier evolutionary stages and combines it to create the blueprint of your wolf form. The genetics work with the magic to create the strong fast and health immortal that is a werewolf. A supernatural embodiment of our most basic and feral instincts.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2010, 02:49:17 pm
Again, THIS IS NOT ABOUT JESSE AS WEREWOLF.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: charmed on February 04, 2010, 02:52:36 pm
Any further off topic comments will be deleted without notice.  Extraneous posts reduce the utility of the forum. As always, you're welcome to open a new topic of discussion or find an already existign thread that covers your topic.

charmed, books mod
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: berryblu on February 04, 2010, 03:05:28 pm
Isn't the question whether or not she would want to be one, would choose to ask to be turned?   :-[  I'd think that if she knew it would be easier for her to become a werewolf it might be more likely that she would choose to be one.  However, I don't see that in this world, having a werewolf as a father makes any difference as far as her chances of success.  I agree that she has seen some bad things through connection with her father's pack, but then she has also seen some good things, too.  I think it could go either way, depending on her life and her own relationships within and outside the pack.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 04, 2010, 03:07:55 pm
And it's not as though "normal" human life doesn't have drawbacks she's experienced, like her mother's boyfriends, and how "attentive" her mother is...
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: charmed on February 04, 2010, 03:08:32 pm
Yes, the question is whether or not she might decide to attempt the Change.

DNA, genetics, etc are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

end mod mode

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote
However, I don't see that in this world, having a werewolf as a father makes any difference as far as her chances of success.

Since Patty herself has said this, I think it's a safe assumption :D
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on February 05, 2010, 03:47:29 am
Why would she choose to be one? She must know her chances are poor, there are only three women in the pack. And she could be quite dominant. Would she want to be at the bottom of the pack?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2010, 08:10:24 am
That's a good point, Pendle. I don't see Jessie putting up with only taking her rank from her mate. :P
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: charmed on February 05, 2010, 08:12:21 am
Neither do I. If sh edid choose to become a werewolf, she'd be pushing fo rchange. Heh, I can see her and Mercy ganging up :P
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on February 05, 2010, 09:43:04 am
Now that would be interesting. Lets fight for Women's rights.

Anyhow, would Adam want Jesse to change? I get the impression it's not a life he would have chosen for himself, so why would he want it for Jesse?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 05, 2010, 09:53:54 am
If you go back over the previous 5 pages, I think you'll discover that the concensus is that he would actively fight against having her change unless her life was threatened by not changing over.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kate on February 05, 2010, 09:56:59 am
Oh, yeah. My version of Adam would NOT be a happy puppy. But I also think that if Jessie really wanted to do it... she'd find a way. I'm just not quite convinced that she'd want to.  :)
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on February 05, 2010, 09:58:24 am
If you go back over the previous 5 pages, I think you'll discover that the concensus is that he would actively fight against having her change unless her life was threatened by not changing over.

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 07, 2010, 08:38:55 pm
I just don't see Jessie choosing to attempt the change. Even if she wanted to be a Werewolf, the likely possibility of death (does anyone know the % rate?) would be a very strong deterrent.... especially for a young life loving person like Jessie.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2010, 08:40:45 pm
That's been the general consensus.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 07, 2010, 08:48:22 pm
Neat..... now what?   bOuNcY
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2010, 08:52:17 pm
Move to a different question?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Avarel on February 07, 2010, 08:53:04 pm
Jesse AND the werewolf?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 07, 2010, 09:09:42 pm
Which werewolf is "THE werewolf?"  Still moves to being a different question.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on February 08, 2010, 03:47:18 am
Any werewolf. Do you think she'll end up mated to a werewolf? (Whens she older of course.)
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Lord_Raken on February 08, 2010, 07:28:57 pm
If Jessie does fall for a Were then I suspect we haven't met him yet. Mac was a good candidate for all of about ten pages before that story arch was slammed shut pretty hard.  :P

Ben would be a VERY interesting and slightly disturbing romance... but would absolutely amazing if done right. It would be a huge challenge to get that right, and I frankly think would muddy the waters a little too much.

It would probably end up being a new Werewolf, one that hadn't been a Were for more than a year or so. I also doubt that Adam would allow his daughter to be matted with one of his wolves. Correct me if I'm wrong but I can see a lot of issues within the Pack arising out of that. The Alpha's daughter mated to a lower wolf and that would trying to muscle up in the ranks because of it... On second thought it would probably never get that far 'cause Adam would kill that wolf first.  LOL
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kate on February 08, 2010, 07:33:13 pm
Once again, we're off topic of whether Jesse would BECOME a werewolf. If you think that whether or not she'd DATE a werewolf is an interesting topic (and i think it probably IS), then please feel free to start a new thread in the Shared World Comments area.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: charmed on February 08, 2010, 08:06:00 pm
or better yet, put it in the existing thread for that topic.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: 2shay on April 05, 2010, 11:59:24 am
I know that everyone has pretty much said everything on this topic.  I just wanted to add one thing.  I agree that Jessie wouldn't seek it and Adam wouldn't approve it unless her life were threatened.  Can werewolves be cured of diseases by changing?  I don't know if that's been in the books or not.  If so, I don't remember. 
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on April 05, 2010, 12:18:56 pm
It hasn't been specifically stated.  My best guess is that if a person was suffering anything from a rash to cancer (and cancer is considered a disease, Dr.Carter had it), and they were mauled to the edge of death, and survived to change, yes, the disease would be cured.  STD, allergies, MS, strep throat, e.coli, the flesh eating diseases, yes, yes, yes.  Now, something like cerebral palsy or Downs Syndrome - that's another kettle of fish.  I don't have a clue on those.  Downs is genetic; I don't know the causes of CP.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Varg on April 05, 2010, 12:24:12 pm
CP is damage done to the brain because of lack of oxygen during birth so seeing as becoming a werewolf seems to heal the damage done by ageing one might think it would heal something like that too. It seems a stretch though.
But that may be a reason why Jesse would change/ be changed if she were to contract some deadly or maybe debilitating decease the risk benefit ratio changes a good deal.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ironkitten on June 30, 2010, 03:18:34 pm
YA, but don't forget what happened with Dr. Wallace and his bone cancer either.
I really hadn't thought about Jesse being a were until I read this thread, I could see it later on. I don't think Adam would go berserk though if she was turned by a rougue were in say Europe, but I could see a surgical strike with Bran's approval and Samuel and David going with. I think Jesse does the hair thing to get at her mom. And right now I think with her new boyfriend there Gabrielle I don't see Jesse wanting to be turned. I do think she would survive the change though given what we know it takes to survive the change. I could even see Anna helping her out a little perhaps being part of Brans pack and not Adams later.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Snow Wolf on July 02, 2010, 03:05:14 pm
I think the hair is more for her dad then her mom.  gives him something "normal" to worry or get upset about.  As for changing maybe a few years but I would see Mercy having to help her talk Adam into letting her try and even then I don't think Adam could be it.  I think Bran would have to because he's strong enough to deal with Adam if Jesse didn't make it.  And Adam's to good a father not to go a little nuts if their only child died
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on July 02, 2010, 03:13:39 pm
I don't think Adam or Bran or any were Jesse knows would let her attempt the change.  They all love her and if anything happened to her, well... we don't want that to happen. 

I think the only way it would even be considered is if she was in danger of dying from some other mortal wound ( Like Blue Jay Woman and Bran) or if she was diagnosed with cancer.

Even then it would be difficult to find any wolf other than Adam who would attempt to change his daughter.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ironkitten on July 02, 2010, 05:19:32 pm
that is true.....I didn't think of that either CK. Ya I couldn't see Bran doing it except as a last resort to Adam, I would think if it happens at all Adam would it.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on July 02, 2010, 05:52:03 pm
Bran wouldn't change Jessie, Only Adam would under very extreme circumstances or a rogue imbecile since he would be dead right after!
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ironkitten on July 02, 2010, 05:53:56 pm
true enough.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on July 02, 2010, 06:01:07 pm
Well, short of a situation like where Rick, the Austrian Omega was changed.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on July 02, 2010, 06:43:14 pm
Exactly Patti, change her or she will die.  Only way I can see it happening.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Snow Wolf on July 02, 2010, 06:55:58 pm
we'll have to wait and see
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: alan on July 12, 2010, 03:07:54 pm
we'll have to wait and see

I hate waiting  :(
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on August 15, 2010, 12:39:57 pm
Adam would not change Jessie unless it was life or death. Remember, he thinks he is a monster and would'nt want that for his only child.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on August 24, 2010, 10:10:54 am
Adam would not change Jessie unless it was life or death. Remember, he thinks he is a monster and would'nt want that for his only child.

True. And then you’ve got the problem of the whole female inequality issue. And Jesse’s a strong willed girl.

I do think she would survive the change though given what we know it takes to survive the change.

I think surviving the change is more pot luck. I don’t think she’d risk it unless there was no other option. She's strong willed, yes, but her survival isn't guaranteed.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on August 24, 2010, 10:14:36 am
Somehow, in reply to Pendle's post, I think the female inequality issue may change soon, remember the fight between Mary Jo and Paul? bOuNcY
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on August 24, 2010, 10:17:57 am
It's changing, definitely, but it may take time. It won't be universally accepted.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on August 24, 2010, 03:25:06 pm
But remember that the wole "gay" wolf thing is starting to be accepted. It said that after Warren joined Adam's pack that more packs accepted gay wolves, maybe it will be like that? P. S. Can't remember where I read that, maybe SB?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Pendle on August 25, 2010, 02:52:00 am
SB definitely, off top of my head I'd say the dinner date?

Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Elle on August 25, 2010, 05:21:24 am
Starting to veer a bit off Jesse's topic but yes, SB dinner date.

I personally hope that the Jesse as a werewolf scenario is something that doesn't happen. If it ever did I think she'd make it, she's a very strong character but I'd rather she not, although it will be weird when she looks older than her father.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on August 25, 2010, 10:17:15 am
Thanks :DElle. I do think that would look a little wierd, but I like Jesse human, a bright happy human instead of a territorial wolf.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Victorymon on September 30, 2010, 03:22:01 am
I say she grew up under wolves so naturally she had asked her father when she will be able to do something like this too (I have to agree, the idea came while reading a different KA book) so I say: why not?

by the way: I feel sorry for everymon who come to her fathers place. (not topic, I know, but when would I ever talk about this?) the poor guy must know that Adam is a werewolf. how would this chat start?

Hello sir, I am xyz.
Hello xyz. How fast can you run?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on October 02, 2010, 10:43:54 am
LOL, but as said many times on this thread... Adam most probably wouldn't let Jesse go wolf
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Kkat07 on October 02, 2010, 03:49:36 pm
LOL, but as said many times on this thread... Adam most probably wouldn't let Jesse go wolf

I think victorymon was talking about any guy who was wanting to date Jesse in the last post, not just someone who might want to change her.  I may have read it wrong, though.
And to keep my post from being completely off topic, I'm ambivalent on Jesse being changed, unlikely as it is.  I kind of like her as a human, but I kinda think she'd make a good werewolf.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Victorymon on October 02, 2010, 08:48:40 pm
you got that right. I was talking about a human.
and I still think that she wants to be a wolf too.
bad example: anymon knows MASH? there was this story where a girl lived with her father and he was a soldier. and she was really angry when she found out that she cant go to the military. She tried everything and somehow she made it
what I just want to say: she knows about the werewolf-world. and she got many friends there. so there must be this nasty voice in her head, telling her: "you want that too, you know you want it!"
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on October 02, 2010, 09:11:51 pm
Well, remember Jesse is very intelligent and pretty observant.  She sees the pros and the cons of werewolf lives.  Some of her may well be saying "you want this", but other parts are doubtless saying no.  My guess remains that she still might try it in another 40 or 50 years, or if she's given a crippling injury or gets a debilitating disease.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Phe on October 05, 2010, 05:12:48 pm
I gotta say, I'm surprised by how very little Bran was mentioned in this thread. If Jesse did decide she wanted to take the risk and she met opposition in Adam, her best bet would be to take her case to Bran. As the Marrok, if he sided with her, he could see to it being allowed to happen, regardless of what Adam wanted.

As many possibilities for Jesse becoming a were have already been stated, I'm not going to bother adding any myself. But I think whether it is a life or death situation, or a choice decades down the line, Bran would be fair enough to her plight. He's old enough that he's not likely to bend because she is someone's daughter. We don't know what the situation was with Sam's kids, but I feel if he was willing to allow his own blood to try, provided you had good reason and were competent, I could see him agreeing to pull an overruling on it.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on October 06, 2010, 10:26:11 am
That and so l;ong as she knew the rules, which she probably already does
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Jabulani on November 09, 2010, 11:02:08 pm
Adam may also counsel her not to become a werewolf until/unless she has found a male who is high enough in dominance to make he life in the pack enjoyable.  Being owned sexual by the alpha, as a unmated female, is not what I think Adam would want for his daughter. 

She may also not think the risk/reward ratio is that good.  More females than males die instead of becoming werewolves, so her risk there is high.   She also will not have her father's protection, unless he is her Alpha.  I doubt that, now, she wants her dad as her Alpha.  For any American teenager having her father being able to give a command and she has to obey it would be the pits.

TalkingMouse, are unmated female werewolves really sex toys for the Alphas? I don't like that at all...
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: charmed on November 10, 2010, 02:18:26 pm
It says in one of the books, I can't recall which one, that unmated females are the Alpha's property (I think that's the word that was used) and yes, there was a reference, by Honey I think, that that includes sex.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: ArtAngel on November 10, 2010, 02:24:04 pm
That reference is in BB, when Mr. Beckworth was telling Mercy and Honey about Kara... and yes, sex is involved although Honey did say that the wolf takes over and makes is more bearable.

That's why Bran was so careful with which wolves went on the list for Kara's father to contact.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on November 10, 2010, 03:32:41 pm
That reference is in BB, when Mr. Beckworth was telling Mercy and Honey about Kara... and yes, sex is involved although Honey did say that the wolf takes over and makes is more bearable.

That's why Bran was so careful with which wolves went on the list for Kara's father to contact.
Which was a big part of how Anna dealt with what Leo & that pack did to her...
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Jabulani on November 10, 2010, 07:27:51 pm
Adam would not change Jessie unless it was life or death. Remember, he thinks he is a monster and would'nt want that for his only child.

But from what I've read here on the fora, Mercy is starting to change that for him - he seems to be slowly reconciling himself with the idea that it's not what a person is (except for the vamps), but who he is, that determines whether he's a monster or not. Or am I being a lunk again?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Jabulani on November 10, 2010, 07:31:49 pm
Thanks :DElle. I do think that would look a little wierd, but I like Jesse human, a bright happy human instead of a territorial wolf.

AND, not at all shy about asserting herself amongst the wolves - human or not! That might just be because she grew up among them, but I think she'd be like that anyways. It's good to see at least ONE human who is respected and loved by the wolves.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Janilee on November 10, 2010, 07:32:44 pm
I wouldn't say a lunk.  :)

Remember that a parent may accept dangers and difficulties for themselves that they would never allow their child. Even if Adam is slowly changing his thought processes, there will still be a knee jerk reaction when it comes to Jesse.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Jabulani on November 10, 2010, 10:12:41 pm
I wouldn't say a lunk.  :)

Remember that a parent may accept dangers and difficulties for themselves that they would never allow their child. Even if Adam is slowly changing his thought processes, there will still be a knee jerk reaction when it comes to Jesse.

Oh, I agree 100% with you. On the other hand, there's a time to let a child grow up and make her own decisions, too  :(  And that is where most parents, in my experience, fail miserably... >D
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on November 14, 2010, 02:42:20 pm
That, and Adam might actually BE her Alpha. She lives in the area of his pack anyway.(If she Cahnges)
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on November 14, 2010, 03:36:30 pm
No doubt about it Adam would be her Alpha, and LOL he's already her father so that's just a bit much don't ya think?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on November 14, 2010, 03:44:24 pm
I envision Jesse as someone who will retain close ties with her dad but move away to make her own life without him breathing down her neck, knowing he'll lean on local werewolves to watch over her.  So if she does choose to be changed, it's apt to be outside Adam's territory.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on November 14, 2010, 03:56:36 pm
I don't think Adam would go for that, unmated females belong to the Alpha remember.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on November 14, 2010, 04:02:35 pm
So does he want her 'belonging' to him with the implication of incest?  I think that if she was in the right territory, maybe with Boyd, for instance, he wouldn't have a problem... especially if she was already a mother, husband either dead, divorced, or were... and her mate either by choice or default?
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on November 14, 2010, 04:03:27 pm
I think I will have to stick with NO Werewolf Jessie.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: DandelionWine on February 11, 2011, 02:47:15 pm
That reference is in BB, when Mr. Beckworth was telling Mercy and Honey about Kara... and yes, sex is involved although Honey did say that the wolf takes over and makes is more bearable.

That's why Bran was so careful with which wolves went on the list for Kara's father to contact.

I don't think there's an automatic sexual involvement included.  I think it CAN be involved, and has been in the past to the degree that it's accepted by custom if it's the case in a pack, but it isn't the way Bran seems to behave or the way plenty of his pack Alphas do either even if Bran hasn't instituted a law against it.  He seems to be careful about what laws he shoves down the throats of the other packs but I think he's gradually trying to install Alphas in place who are more caring of their packs, more as their children, instead of possessions.  OK fairly aggressive and savage children, but still. 

The fact that there were any packs at all that were 'safe' to send Kara Beckworth to means that it's not a given.  Not to mention that Mary Jo isn't a big pass around pack within Adam's pack, and there is canon about Honey's change that says she was changed outside the Marroks territory, and that she's older than Peter, so yeah, who knows?

I think some of her life may have given Jessie a skewed idea about pack life since Adam keeps his pack pretty much on a straight and narrow and doesn't put up with much bad behaviour.   ... of course, she's pretty aware and smart too.  I don't think she's going to be all that willing to make the attempt.  I don't think she will unless later in life she gets involved with a WW and she decides she wants to keep pace with his lifespan.

She's got some years to decide, and it's usually the closest relative that mauls her.  There's a protocol about it and if she's still single that would have to be Adam.  I think that makes sure that everyone knows and understands and is sure of the decision.  I agree that Adam wouldn't be willing to risk it no matter how adult she is.  He's all about duty and all, but that's too far for him I think.

If she gets changed before she's a mature adult, I think it would be more likely that it's a rogue or an accident before Adam would go along with any attempt.  Hey, didn't Charles lose Leo's second Justin?   The one who turned Anna?  Either Charles was too injured or Justin left before Charles got there?  It seems like someone would have found and put him down by now... but? 
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Zealith on February 11, 2011, 02:58:48 pm

The fact that there were any packs at all that were 'safe' to send Kara Beckworth to means that it's not a given.  Not to mention that Mary Jo isn't a big pass around pack within Adam's pack, and there is canon about Honey's change that says she was changed outside the Marroks territory, and that she's older than Peter, so yeah, who knows?

IK states that Peter is much older than Honey, so I wouldn't take that as evidence. However, your theory does seem likely to me.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: CarolKat on February 11, 2011, 04:26:17 pm
If she gets changed before she's a mature adult, I think it would be more likely that it's a rogue or an accident before Adam would go along with any attempt.  Hey, didn't Charles lose Leo's second Justin?   The one who turned Anna?  Either Charles was too injured or Justin left before Charles got there?  It seems like someone would have found and put him down by now... but?

I could maybe see Jesse wanting to change if she married a were, but not until she had some kids.
Charles took care of everyone involved in Alpha & Omega, It was part of an anthology called "On The Prowl."  I think it is now offered as a single since some of the other stories were way over the top.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: DandelionWine on February 11, 2011, 05:24:32 pm
Yep, I was sure wrong on those two counts, thanks for that catch Zealith, and you too CarolKat.  :-[   I have that novella, and I see that Boyd shot Justin in the eye after Charles was incapacitated, but I still think one of Leo's higher ranking wolves slipped away somehow.  But, this is not the place for that!   Thanks for the catch both of you.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: alan on July 10, 2011, 05:37:17 pm
I think Jesse would be a great werewolf.  But making her one would be so hard on Adam even if he's not the one Changing her. 
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: little gray wolf on July 12, 2011, 02:54:02 am
She is too cheerful in my opinion to be a wolf. It is one of her defining characteristics, and it would be gone because of her wolf
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Itsy-Cat on May 29, 2012, 02:13:43 am
What if Jesse grew up and moved away, then at some point was attacked and changed into a werewolf, and then turned out to be really dominant (she is a lot like her father, after all,) like, the 5th most dominant wolf in the country, so that the only packs where she wouldn't be the alpha are the Marrok's or her father's.

Then say that, and she doesn't want to move to the Marrok's pack or back to where her Dad would be her alpha, so Jesse ends up as the first female Alpha and the male wolves just have to accept it.  :D

(There's that whole thing with less dominant wolves not being able to disobey an order from a more dominant one, isn't there? So, if that happened, (Jesse was turned and turned out more dominant,) and the regular male wolves tried to tell Jesse what to do, she wouldn't have to listen.  Yet if she told them what to do, they'd have to do it. LOL
And then they might get irritated and try to 'put her in her place' with a dominance fight, but, after Jesse was attacked in Iron Kissed, by the other teenagers, didn't Adam say "You'll have to start practicing aikido again, then... You're three years out of practice, and if you're only half their weight, you'll have to do better than that." Then Jesse said "Yes" with 'grim determination'. (Iron Kissed, pg 113.)
So, it seemed like Jesse had had training in the past, and was, after being attacked, determined to start training again. If she trains enough to be able to fight off someone twice her size, why shouldn't she win dominance fight too? (If the turning-into-a-werewolf thing happened.) Also, isn't Bran's wolf form fairly small? Size isn't everything. And I think I read somewhere that most packs don't get proper training like Adam's does?)
 
So, Jesse might get turned, end up really dominant, and so not have to obey orders, then some males (not all) wouldn't like the idea of their Alpha being a girl, so would challenge her, and she'd kick their arses and end up as the first female alpha.
And maybe she'd still be going out with Gabriel? (I like Jesse and Gabriel together.)

If that happened, maybe other female wolves would move to Jesse's pack (especially if they wanted to get away from one of those less-pleasant packs.)
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on May 29, 2012, 07:27:39 am
Difficult.  Interesting ideas, though.

I think that more than one time it's been said "Alpha is more than dominance" and I believe it.

First, I don't know if Jesse would want to be an alpha, given as much as she's seen of how it works in her dad's pack, but it might very well be less of a hassle than either being second (Warren being third, anyone?) or accepting the traditional "if you're unmated, you belong to the Alpha, if you're mated, you take your mate's rank, less .5" 
So she might be an alpha, but I don't see her (and we're talking years down the road, so who knows what other precedents there might be in the meantime?) jumping into Alpha more or less the minute she's changed.  She's in a "Gifted/ultra-smart" program at school, remember.  She's more likely to talk with her alpha, her dad, and Bran, and see about offering the option to other less traditional werewolves to join a pack with her.  Other gay werewolves, females who aren't happy with the traditional ranking, the damaged ones who don't exactly need Bran's help, but don't do well in a 'normal' pack.  Then form the new pack and have some more or less token rank establishment fights, and let it go at that.  If other alphas were offended by it, they would theoretically have to go to Bran for the right to challenge her, wouldn't they?  At least if they're North American werewolves.  What Euro wolves would feel or think or do about it - that's another kettle of fish.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Itsy-Cat on May 29, 2012, 11:35:48 pm
I think creating a sort of special-circumstances pack, led by Jesse, for those who don't fit in well in a traditional pack, but still want to be part of one etc, in that sort of situation, could definately be a possibility.  :)

As for those who might be offended by the idea, I don't think they'd be offended quite to the point that they'd feel the need to challenge Jesse, (especially if that might draw the wrath of Adam and Bran), if she wasn't actually part of any of their packs. Because they wouldn't really have much to do with her most of the time, except perhaps for at those Alpha meetings that they do every now and then. But since Adam and Bran etc would also be at those meetings, the offended alphas would probably behave themselves there.
I suspect they might deal with the fact that they didn't like Jesse's position etc by joking about 'Jesse's special pack', and making fun of it, but only amongst themselves (while being careful not to say anything in front of anyone who might tell Adam or Bran.)

Of course, it's possible that werewolf-Jesse-years-in-the-future being really dominant might not be such a big issue as it would be in the present time.
A lot of stuff has changed recently. There was the thing with other packs allowing gay wolves to join after Warren joined Adam's Pack, all the public stuff with fae and werewolves etc.
And then there's the fact that Adam's pack has said females can fight in dominance fights. After that, other packs might gradually follow that example. (And even if some of them don't want to, it might end up as something like some packs allowing it, so more females move into those packs because it's fairer etc, then the few hold-outs have to also allow it, or they loose all their females and it ends up as a sort of non-issue because it doesn't affect any of them in their pack.)
So, in that sort of instance, by the time Jesse is, hypothetically, turned into a werewolf years later and turns out to be really dominant, it might not really be an issue.
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: mellinatre on February 10, 2015, 07:20:22 am
I think that Jesse doesn't want to be a werewolf...in all this books she haven't ever talked or asked questions in this sense...and to me she is very opinionated young woman so if this is something she is actually thinking about she will be also vocal about it

a not impossible factor is coercion for me: due to the fact that Mercy, Adam and the pack in general have a lot of enemies it can be that to try to save Jesse life Adam try to change her after Jesse have asked for it...like Jesse is attacked by a vampire or fea or some other kind of monster and is in her death bed...they asked her if she want to try to become a werewolf and she say yes...that she prefers to live as a were than die

and for me any case scenario that I could imagine that will make Jesse think about try the change on her own without be in a life/death situation is if Gabriel is already become a wolf in the first place....so like a lot of human mates she will try the change
Title: Re: Jesse The Werewolf?
Post by: Patti L. on February 10, 2015, 09:20:02 am
That's roughly my opinion, too, Mellinatre.