Author Topic: Can witches become werewolves?  (Read 12278 times)

Itsy-Cat

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2015, 08:39:03 pm »
Good point. Thinking about it, the fae probably consider themselves a separate species, despite technically being able to interbreed with humans, and they probably always have done, (from the time when they were in power and humans were puny unimportant magicless people, to the iron-filled world where they tried to hide, then tried coming out, to the more recent retreating to reservations...) they always are...sort of like humans and able to interbreed, but they're not humans. So I guess the fae and humans are like wolves and dogs?

And I think the analogy of witches being a sort of breed of humans fits too.

        

pondhawk

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2015, 07:35:40 am »
I think probably so. It's hard to see fae thinking of themselves as the same species, and frankly it's hard for me to see them as the same species, as humans or even in some cases as other fae. Maybe humans and different types of fae fall under the same genus, like wolves and coyotes and dogs are all canids.

Or maybe it's just, you know, magic.

Kkat07

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2015, 05:58:26 pm »
I always got the impression that witches are human magic users. So they could be turned into werewolves-but considering most witches are black witches, most wolves wouldn't want to turn them, and if they were in Bran's territory, at least, he'd probably have Charles kill a black witch who'd been turned into a werewolf. I forget which book it's in, I think Frost Burned, where Adam is thinking that if Elizaveta realized how old he was, she'd try to make him turn her and he'd kill her first.
I think Samuel stated in  Silver Borne that if Ariana had been human, she'd have been turned to werewolf, but since she was fae she only suffered. Someone who's of fae blood but mostly human probably could be turned, but someone who is genetically more fae than human probably couldn't.
Since fae is such a broad category, it probably also depends on the type.
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Itsy-Cat

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2015, 10:47:48 pm »
For white witches, who aren't likely to be looking for extreme ways to get power, I'd guess they probably wouldn't be interested in becoming werewolves anyway, (unless it's for the same sort of reasons a human might, like Mercy's foster mother trying to become a werewolf because of that whole problem with the ageing human mate of a werewolf thing.) And as someone who'd already be a supernatural type etc, a witch mate may be even more aware of how dangerous the attempt to change into a werewolf is than a human mate might be? Or maybe they'd be about the same? ???

Anyway, with white witches, (assuming that the wolves are certain that they ARE a white witch), the risks and dangers are probably about the same as for regular humans.


I agree that Bran would not accept a dark witch turned werewolf, and would probably send Charles to kill them. Or do it himself if he felt it was too dangerous.
I suspect a dark witch's reasons for wanting to turn would be different to a human or white witch's reasons, with the exception of all of them possibly being interested in the immortality aspect.

The dark witches might be attracted to the idea of power (if the top three werewolves in the US are witchborn, but also male, and so weaker potential witches, and completely untrained in witch magic, then exactly how much more powerful could a well trained, female dark witch turned werewolf be?)
But then, they have the problem of the werewolves not accepting or wanting to create a dark witch turned werewolf (Adam mentioned that thing about never, ever turning Elizavita etc, so they are aware of the dangers, even if the witches themselves might not be aware of the fact that the three most powerful werewolves are witchborn etc, or might not have considered the implications).

So, if a dark witch did realise all this stuff, and considered the implications, realised how much power they could potentially have etc, they'd probably also realise that the werewolves would not be willing to turn them. And since the process of being turned involves being savaged to near death, but managing to survive, a dark witch who wanted to attempt the change wouldn't be able to be in control of the situation.
Even if they managed to convince a wolf to savage them in an attempt to change them, the wolf would likely make sure that the witch was killed in that attack.

So the dilemma for the witch would be how to get the wolf to savage them enough to turn, but not actually be killed. So... maybe find a wolf too stupid to understand the risks and agree to pay them a lot of money if the witch survived the change, and maybe spell them to never tell anyone about it? Or something like that.

Even then though, the whole process would still be very dangerous, and would a dark witch be willing to let themselves be that vulnerable at the time of being changed, even with the potential power they could get if they survived? I suspect that most of them wouldn't, unless they were desperate (e.g. getting old, like Elizavita, or suffering from some disease that becoming a werewolf could cure). I'd guess that they wouldn't consider it worth the risk while they were still healthy and powerful.

I do wonder though... from what we've seen in the series, witches in general do seem to know about the Marrok and his sons, and that the Marrok is the head wolf in the US and his sons high up in the hierarchy too. (Moira, the white witch mate of the Emerald city pack second, (I think?), knew, and so did the witches in Fair game that consulted for that other pack.) But do the witches know that those three most powerful werewolves in the US, possibly the world, are witchborn, or not?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 10:57:43 pm by Itsy-Cat »
        

pondhawk

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2015, 07:56:30 am »
That's a really good question. You would think it would be very strictly kept need to know information, but over the centuries even need to know information has a tendency to get known, or at least rumored.

Kkat07

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2015, 02:41:30 pm »
Some of them probably know that Charles has magic, but they might not know that he gets it from both sides of the family. Bran's mother has been dead for over a thousand years. Time enough for stories to turn into legend.
Most witches-excepting Bran's mother and Mariposa as far as we know-live a human life span, and the wars between the witch families apparently killed a lot of witches. So even if there are rumors about Bran being witch born,very few people could verify it. The fae know who he is, but the fae generally don't like witches and they don't share information without a price.
In Fair Game, Anna tells that witch Caitlyn or whatever her name is that Charles has magic on both sides of his family, come to think of it. So even though they don't broadcast it, I doubt Bran is overly worried about it. Now he would not want them to know that his mother held a pack of wolves under her control, or that it allowed her to live for centuries, but they can't do much with the knowledge that he is witchborn.
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Itsy-Cat

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Re: Can witches become werewolves?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2015, 01:57:41 am »
I'd forgotten that Anna told the witch in Fair Game about that, (though that witch was pretty scared of Charles at the time, so might not have really been listening, or processing what she was hearing, other than the fact that the wolf in front of her was scary and powerful.)
I think Adam said (about Elizavita) something about how if she ever really processed what she already knew about werewolves, she'd hunt him down and try to get him to turn her, and he'd kill her before he did that. So maybe it is not so much that the witches don't know, and more that the witches tend not to think through what they know about the wolves and what it might mean for them if they were changed?

On the other hand, the two witches we know of who did figure out how to control werewolves and gain their immortality, Mariposa and Bran's mother... well, they knew a lot about the wolves, and they had wolves under their complete control... but neither of them tried to become werewolves themselves.

Maybe that's because they'd have been too vulnerable during the actual change, and their enslaved wolves might have been able to break free during that time? Or maybe they figured they already had the power, immortality and the control over the wolves that they wanted, so why put themselves through the pain and suffering of the change if it wasn't really going to gain them anything more of what they wanted? I guess that would make sense.

So, maybe a dark witch who'd want to try and become a werewolf would be somewhere imbetween? So, one who had thought through and processed what they knew about werewolves, had somehow gotten over the fear of the Marrok and his sons, and realised they could gain power and immortality from becoming a werewolf, but didn't have the kind of knowledge that Bran's mother or Mariposa had, to get that power and immortality without actually becoming a werewolf themselves?
Maybe that's even happened in the past, but... a witch like that, (no longer scared enough of the Marrok, and with less knowledge about the wolves than Bran's mother or Mariposa,) well, they probably wouldn't last long. Even if they did manage to force/bribe/blackmail a wolf into turning them, they'd then be hunted down and killed as soon as the Marrok found out about it, and probably before the witch managed to learn to use the new abilities they had as a wolf?

« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 02:04:33 am by Itsy-Cat »