Author Topic: Legislation of the werewolves  (Read 16813 times)

jenniwee

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2008, 10:38:55 pm »
Actually Has, they're testing before birth.  My OB-Gyn informed me at my last visit that next time he would do the quad-screen, a (not-always-accurate) test that screens for several genetic disorders.  It has a high rate of false positives and if that happens you get to have an amnio (oh, yay).  Interestingly, in my earlier pregnancies the test was either not offered  (when I was 25) or I could refuse it (when I was 29).  Of course this is a different doctor, but now that I'm over 30 (barely, I'll be 32 in March) the test is presented as mandatory.  I'm sure I could refuse it (and we're considering it), but then you get to go through all the doctor lectures.  Sigh.

Plus if the baby fails the APGAR at birth, there is a whole slew of tests, your pediatrician will insist on.  Of course, many times that's good.  It's always better to know so you can start treatment.

Still, prenatal testing does lead to the abortion of disabled children (I'm really not judging here) and considering where our society has gone in the past, that has scary connotations.

Ellyll

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2008, 08:20:12 am »
My sister had all of her kids when she was over 30 and the doctors did just assume that she'd have those tests.  She told them absolutely not.  So you can opt out if you want to, although it is, of course, a personal decision.  I do think it's wrong of the doctors to present it as if it's mandatory; it is, and should remain, a decision to be made by the parents. 
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jackie

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2008, 08:33:11 am »
Folks, it definitely has scary possibilities.  My brother and SIL had their first child when she was almost 40 (brother was younger, but not a lot).  Their docter tried to insist on an Amnio test simply because of her age.  At the time they asked what good and bad could come of it.  Mostly at the time it was an invasive procedure to detect genetic birth defects that had the possibility of injuring the fetus or aborting the child.  After finding all the Drs could do at the time was to allow an abortion if problems were found, they decided against the test.  They wouldn't have chosen abortion if any of the conditions that could have been diagnosed were found.  It wasn't that they were anti abortion, or that they would condemn others for a different decision, it was just that they decided they would love and raise their child regardless, so the test was an unneccesary risk.  They did do all the non invasive, non risky tests, just not that one.

Now days, I believe we're getting to the point we can correct some birth defects very early due to these tests.  I hope this is the direction things continue to go.

Patti L.

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #33 on: February 28, 2008, 01:40:55 pm »
Hmm.  This might go into the to have or not to have children thread, it's getting off topic, but I'll throw in a thought anyway.  Anyone read "The Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon? 
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Ellyll

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2008, 04:37:22 pm »
Folks, it definitely has scary possibilities.  My brother and SIL had their first child when she was almost 40 (brother was younger, but not a lot).  Their docter tried to insist on an Amnio test simply because of her age.  At the time they asked what good and bad could come of it.  Mostly at the time it was an invasive procedure to detect genetic birth defects that had the possibility of injuring the fetus or aborting the child.  After finding all the Drs could do at the time was to allow an abortion if problems were found, they decided against the test.  They wouldn't have chosen abortion if any of the conditions that could have been diagnosed were found.  It wasn't that they were anti abortion, or that they would condemn others for a different decision, it was just that they decided they would love and raise their child regardless, so the test was an unneccesary risk.  They did do all the non invasive, non risky tests, just not that one.

Now days, I believe we're getting to the point we can correct some birth defects very early due to these tests.  I hope this is the direction things continue to go.


That's exactly how my sister and BIL felt about it.  From their perspective, it was a potentially dangerous test to no purpose (and, by the way, I know a few people who got false positives and spent months agonizing, only to give birth to perfectly healthy children), since they weren't going to abort their children in any case. 
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You let a wolf save your life, and you pay and you pay, and you pay...

charmed

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2008, 08:43:05 pm »
Hmm.  This might go into the to have or not to have children thread, it's getting off topic, but I'll throw in a thought anyway.  Anyone read "The Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon? 

Veering a bit off topic. I can move these posts over to the Children thread if you all want to continue discussing this issue.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 06:00:18 am by Wicked Witch »
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dsgholam

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2008, 10:46:47 pm »
Going back to the legislature part, it seems to me that the werewolves, vampires, fae, etc... would be covered under the hate crimes enhancement act in the U.S. That would not necessarily protect them from being discriminated against by the government, but it would make anyone who committed a crime against them eligible for harsher punishments than someone who did not commit a hate crime.

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Temari

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2008, 01:42:56 am »
PattiL - I read that book and loved it.

I've just started a Elizabeth Moon thread in the authors to open up the chat on it...

Has

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2008, 09:57:49 am »
Going back to the legislature part, it seems to me that the werewolves, vampires, fae, etc... would be covered under the hate crimes enhancement act in the U.S. That would not necessarily protect them from being discriminated against by the government, but it would make anyone who committed a crime against them eligible for harsher punishments than someone who did not commit a hate crime.

But I don't think that would be the case, although the government will try to use that as a way to control the situation as well as spinning the legislation as good PR; and ensuring that they dont look like they are discriminating against the werewolves/fae. But the fact is although the fae can portray that they are helpless and not dangerous, with the werewolves its much more difficult especially with the situation with Adam getting caught tearing Tim's corpse apart on camera- If the supernatural beings are deemed to be not helpless than they can pose a danger and no spinning/PR can help their cause to the public.
I wonder though  whether the government will use the werewolves for other purposes especially since the werewolves are involved with the military.  I also wonder what the other governemnts will do to their population of werewolves/fae in comparison to what the US one is doing. Will they be discriminated and travel to the States for amnesty or will it be the other way round of the legislation goes through because there will be no way that packs along with Alphas that could live in a territory together.
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dsgholam

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2008, 12:25:33 pm »
Well, no minority within the United States is completely helpless, yet they are all covered under that act. The exact wording of what constitutes a hate crime under that act is:

Quote
A crime in which the victim was selected ”because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation of any person.”

It seems to me that since werewolves are being looked at as having a disease, they would be covered under the disability part of that act, as well as fae, vampires and werewolves being races of people. Since that is already in place, it seems to me that Bran would be in a situation to take advantage of that and other pre-existing laws, at least within the United States.

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Has

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2008, 12:40:10 pm »
But I dont think Bran wants any kind of legislation to pass through - remember in IK Bran was adamant that the bill that classed werewolves as an endanged species should  go through because the werewolves might be forced or encouraged to live in reservations like the fae. That will be a total nightmare because you cant have packs living together because the Alphas would end up with dominance issues with each other.
But I suppose they could be classed with a disability type bill where they might be protected from discrimination but then they may be forced to wear a sign/ or admit they are werewolves which goes back to the earlier argument of what the Nazi's did to the Jews and other minority groups. I can see that happening because whatever the case- there will be certainly some sections in the governement and other social bodies who will demand that all werewolves should be declared one for safety issues.
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jackie

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #41 on: February 29, 2008, 06:02:32 pm »
There is often a difference between the law as written and how it is enforced.  The law sets a higher standard, we hope.  As any young  black or hispanic man can tell you, he often gets hassled or even picked up by copswithout any provokation.  My son only looks hispanic and he has had trouble with it.  Luckily it hasn't gone any further for him than a hassle, but we know others who now have records because they were not even in the wrong place, but just convenient.

Patty has already been dealing with the difference between human law and enforcement, and supernatural law and how it's enforced.  Should make for lots of good books.

grommet

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2008, 12:28:55 pm »
Zealith the term which was used early in the twentieth century was eugenics.  Thats my recolection. 

Zealith

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2008, 01:43:59 pm »
Then I was close, thanks.

dsgholam

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Re: Legislation of the werewolves
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2008, 11:06:28 am »
Going back to the part about being a werewolf being like a disease, something like HIV, is kind of misleading because I do not believe anyone would willingly elect to be infected by HIV, but almost every werewolf willingly elected to become a werewolf. Sure that doesn't apply to people like Adam and Anna, but it still muddies things legally as to whether werewolves really ought to be treated like anyone infected with a disease. Furthermore, I'm going to go against my own previous point in that while no minorities protected under the Hate Crime Enhancements Act are completely helpless, none that is considered somehow disabled has that disability come in the form of superhuman strength and a longer life span. So, basically it is a very interesting situation and I'll be curious to see how Mrs. Briggs handles it.

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