Author Topic: Female werewolves, women's rights, and female pack?  (Read 103848 times)

DandelionWine

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Re: Female werewolves, women's rights, and female pack?
« Reply #330 on: August 01, 2015, 12:43:28 pm »
 Well stated Oh Prince!  One other thing is, it shouldn’t be forgotten that it’s not just the older Alphas, or the more misogynistic newer wolves who may not want the status quo to change!  As Catchmeifyoucan said, there are older females like Honey who aren’t entirely sure that THEY want too much change too soon either!   Mary Jo was certainly willing to get in the ring in Silver Born though to be fair, while death may have been a risk, she actually knew her opponent didn’t really want to kill her too.   Adam allowed the fight in a subtle way simply by not objecting to it, which he probably could have even in the poor position he was in with his pack, but by letting it happen, he actually gave female pack members the chance to continue the forward momentum if they really want to, without forcing it down anyone’s throat.
 
This is not a thing that can be easily dictated, and anyone who thinks it can be is probably fairly young in wolf years and even in human life experience.  It needs to grow and develop organically, with some nurturing along the way, including some fertilizer and proper pruning.  Bran can prune some of the worst abusers and offenders, but Alphas like Adam with Mercy by his side is helping to nurture the best behavior too. 
 
Oh yeah, we shouldn’t forget that Bran is a very old wolf.  We see him as pretty darn forward thinking, but I bet he’s not exactly positive HE wants things to change too much either.  The fact that he’s allowing it to happen may just be all he can manage.  My best guess is that he’s adopting a wait and see attitude, holding the option to act if and when it’s necessary.
 
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Prince of Pain

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Re: Female werewolves, women's rights, and female pack?
« Reply #331 on: October 05, 2015, 12:43:43 am »
On the Bran front while I tend to think that he's sympathetic to the pro-you-can-die-in-challenges-too movement.  I'm not exactly sure how sympathetic he really is.  I mean he could be all like, yeah I wish with all my heart that Santa was real too but since I have yet to see him this millenium... Or communism for werewolves makes a great argument in theory but fails spectacularly in every real live test...

If the later is the case then I tend to think that we come to the second facet of his personality.  Which is he's the Marrok but he knows that holding a bunch of Alphas together isn't all gum drops and lolipops either.  Which is why he's take a really big hands off policy to date.  I mean Anne the Omega was in a really disfunctional pack with a dictatorial Alpha who had an insane mate and it was only when they started flagrantly violating pack law 'and' the pack began to destabalize in a bigger and bigger way that he took action.

If he's willing to put up with a certain amount of bad behavior from the non-touchy feelly packs (read violent and brutal law of the jungle packs), I could totally see him (out of fairness) pulling the same move with the pro-right-to-get-yourself-killed packs.  I.e. so long as your pack is stable and there's not a lot of violent oppression of its members I'll monitor and see, even if just like Santa Clause I have yet to see such an animal, or like communism for werewolves, I have yet to see that social system succeed for us in practice.

Wait and see and strongly advise and then if he has to send in Charles to clean up the mess afterwards.




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lostbird

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Re: Female werewolves, women's rights, and female pack?
« Reply #332 on: October 05, 2015, 05:35:27 am »
... I don’t personally think Bran is either for or against women in the packs having a different role in any pack, it’s more a case of him not interfering with the decisions of any pack’s Alpha as long as said pack is solidly under the Alpha’s control and functioning well in society so neither his pack nor any other packs are in danger.  Bran isn’t big on change, he just recognizes that it is sometimes unavoidable and will probably need to be managed.
... we shouldn’t forget that Bran is a very old wolf.  We see him as pretty darn forward thinking, but I bet he’s not exactly positive HE wants things to change too much either.  The fact that he’s allowing it to happen may just be all he can manage.  My best guess is that he’s adopting a wait and see attitude, holding the option to act if and when it’s necessary.
I don't think these sentiments can be stressed enough. I can't remember where, but I do remember that at some point Bran likened his role to that of a prime minister more than a king. I see him as more of a benevolent dictator (as someone else has mentioned). A close read of all the MT and A&O books shows that he tends to listen carefully and observe as much as possible before he makes a decision. NO decision he's made has EVER been made on the spur of the moment or just because there seems to be growing consensus. Using the Warren example, Bran (and Charles) had to have known for some time that Warren was gay. Yet he left it up to Adam--an alpha he trusts--to deal with this 'problem' within his own pack on Adam's own terms. It's pretty clear that Bran is not going to just step in and upset the NA alphas apple cart for the sake of human-centric social/political correctness.



chloe

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Re: Female werewolves, women's rights, and female pack?
« Reply #333 on: October 08, 2015, 09:08:05 am »
Yes, I agree. Bran's main goal is to protect his wolves and keep them alive (note: alive, not necessarily happy).  If any action in the packs causes deaths or may cause deaths (except legal dominance fights) he steps in.  But only after careful observation and evidence that yes, wolves are dying.  His forward thinking and willingness to change is also shown in his relationship with Mercy.  I mean, she is a coyote!  And now she's Adams mate/wife, so almost like an Alpha of a pack.  Of course, she is a useful tool too, ridding Bran of problems in the Tri-cities area.  Sometimes I liken Bran to the fey.  They will let you live if you are interesting and don't cause too much trouble for them.  I liked the beginning of Fair Game where Anna argues with Bran about Charles.  I'd like to see more interaction between Bran and Anna.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 09:10:03 am by chloe »

chloe

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Re: Female werewolves, women's rights, and female pack?
« Reply #334 on: October 09, 2015, 07:04:57 pm »
Mel said in april:
Quote
I have to say loving the new wolf in "Dead Heat", I think Chelsea is a step towards a future female Alpha, can't wait to see where Patricia Briggs is going to do with her creations next 

I am in total agreement about Chelsea being a future female alpha.  That's the first thing I thought of when she was turned.  She is witchborn, so is Bran.  I seriously suspect that part of Bran's power is due to his part witchiness, even though he supposedly suppresses it.  She is also super protective of her family, to the extent of hurting herself over them.  Another big Alpha characteristic.  I really hope Patty does something like this with Chelsea!

Also, this is a great thread.  I've really enjoyed reading everyones well thought out arguments about female power in the packs.  So great to know others have the same thoughts as me!  :)