Author Topic: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts  (Read 36111 times)

Michelle13

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Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« on: March 09, 2009, 06:04:47 pm »
I am curious about the Shi She Kai Kan that Mercy practices. It is mentioned several times, and Mercy thanks her Sensei and credits the form as keeping her from being killed. I can't find this variety online and was wondering if anyone has more info on it or knows of a dojo that practices it?  Thanks. 8) 8)

Linnea

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2009, 01:31:45 pm »
I found a few search results for Shi Sei Kai Kan.  Is that right?  Sorry I can't help more.

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Mike Briggs

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 08:58:56 am »
Let me weigh in here a bit.  I practiced this style for a number of years.  It's a hard style, with elements of both inner and outer circle styles, but probably more of an emphasis on inner circle.  It's Japanese in origin, but I can't remember the name of the town where it originated.  My sensei learned it in Chile, from a very traditional master.  Unfortunately, my sensei didn't speak Japanese, and was more interested in the combat than in the philosophy or origins of the style.  I do know it's a rare style (there are literally hundreds of local or regional styles in Japan and the Pacific Islands).   

Looking at the more common styles, I found it most similar to Sabaki style.  There's a pretty decent book called Sabaki Method: Karate in the Inner Circle that shows many of the same techniques and philosophies.  As far as I know, Sensei Ito, who recently moved back to Japan, was the last master of this style in the US.  My old sensei has chosen to certify under a different style to continue teaching, since there's no recognized organization here in the US, though his teaching is remarkably similar.

One final note.  After moving back to the tri-cities area, I've managed to touch bases with several of my old karate buddies, including the only two black belts that our sensei ever awarded.  Both of them are crippled up from various injuries sustained in training.   :(    They're now doing Tai Chi.

Sensei Chandia is still teaching in the dojo in Kennewick WA, if you're up to the workout.  My son will be attending!~




« Last Edit: March 14, 2009, 09:03:42 am by Mike Briggs »
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Nifty

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2009, 08:51:04 am »
Mike, I have a question maybe you can answer.  In the second book, after Stefan and Mercy's first run-in with Corey Littleton, Mercy goes to her garage and walks into her office and the people there are struck by her battered face.  She makes a comment about the stupid white-belt, and someone else pipes up with how he'd rather fight a slew of black-belts than one white-belt.  (Or something like that.)

That whole scene threw me for a loop a little.  I don't know much about martial arts, but I thought white was the lowest level belt, and that the colors went up to black, and then once one attained that standing, one could advance through levels while still being a black belt.  (I hope I explained that clearly.) 

So I wasn't sure if the whole thing was an inside joke about untrained white belts being more dangerous than a black belt...or if the belt system came full circle at some point and that after progressing through a certain number of levels as a black-belt, one earned an ultimate designation as a white-belt.

Again...I'm SUPREMELY ignorant about all matters martial arts, so I just didn't know.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 09:38:07 am by Nifty »
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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2009, 09:18:03 am »
There is a saying that the best swordsman in the world doesn't fear the second best, he fears the worst. That's because beginners will often do things people who've been doing it for a while would never think of. Doesn't mean the punch won't connect, just means it won't connect the way the more experience person would have thought. ^_^
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Mike Briggs

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 09:44:57 am »
Hey there Nifty!
You're right on the belt system.  While every system has a different progression of belts they almost all start with white, and end with brown then black.   In martial arts, one thing you learn is control.  We sparred without padding, and you depend on your partner to "pull" a strike that you've failed to block effectively.  Bruises are fine, but nobody likes broken bones.  When I was studying, a green or brown belt was generally a six to seven year proposition, a black belt more like ten.  That's meeting three times a week.  Basically, if a black belt hits you hard enough to do damage, he meant to.  Also, because everyone is practicing a similar style, you have a good idea what to expect from an opponent who's been there a while.

White belts are not as skilled, but they're unpredictable.   It's considered extremely bad form to hurt a white belt, so the more skilled combatants are definitely going to be taking it easy on anyone wearing one.  However, the white belt can't extend the same courtesy to their sparring partner. Because they don't know what they're doing, they may try anything, including some crazy stunt they saw on a bad Kung Foo movie.

There are a number of things that you can't do safely while sparring.  For example, that jumping, spinning back kick that Mercy used in Bone Crossed.  Because you're spinning, the kick is pretty much committed before your target comes back into view, and there's a tremendous amount of force in it.  By the time you realize that your sparring partner is just standing there like a dummy, it's too late, and you're going to REALLY hurt him.   So, the more skilled students will never use that kick while sparring.  Some leg sweeps and most nerve strikes are the same way -- they simply can't be used safely, so they're practiced in very controlled conditions and not used while sparring.  A white belt probably can't do those moves effectively, but he may try!

Also, the light belts still haven't figured that you're not competing with the other members of your dojo.  The whole zen of self-mastery comes a little later.  They're eager to show that they're committed, and anxious to show their fighting skill.  This enthusiasm makes them dangerous -- they're often swinging for the fences, with no control, and making no attempt to spare their partner.  

 That's why I'd rather face a couple of dark belts than a white belt, at least in sparring.  The dark belts will probably win the match, but we'll all be laughing as we head to the showers -- even when they win I won't get badly injured.  The white belt is far more likely to actually hurt me if I give him half a chance.

Does that make more sense?
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Nifty

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 10:07:56 am »
Thanks, Mike!  It does makes sense.  It was more or less what my initial thought was -- although of course not as refined and fully realized as your explanation! -- when I first read that scene.  But again, based on my woeful lack of knowledge of all things "kung foo," I just wasn't sure if there was another explanation.

I've enjoyed the couple of sparring scenes Patty has included in the series.  (The one with Mercy and Adam in Blood Bound, and then the one in Bone Crossed at the dojo.)  I may be uneducated when it comes to martial arts, but I readily admit to a love of what I call "Hollywood-style martial arts."  That's how I always explain my sick addiction to Walker: Texas Ranger to my friends. ;D 

My dorkness runs deep.  (Because, seriously...how else DOES a 38-year-old woman explain a fondness for Walker: Texas Ranger?)

Oh...and Steven Segall (sp?) movies.  I like how he just stands there all serene with his hands folded in front of his abdomen, and then all of sudden there are a couple of "Waaaaah!" moves and six bad guys are in various states of disrepair at his feet.  Awesome.  (I'm telling you...D-O-R-K.)

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Mike Briggs

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 10:24:04 am »
Steven Segall has been a guilty pleasure of mine for a long time.  He's using Aikido  (with, I think, a little Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for flavor).   The plot lines are terrible, and I wish he'd just own up to being overweight rather than continually trying to hide it.   You can be heavy, and still be an amazing martial artist.  However, unlike many others, he's not using wires or some "mystic mojo moves" (at least not that I've seen).  If you go to a good Aikido instructor, you'll see the same moves being taught, and they work ALMOST as well as they do on film.   

Walker: Texas Ranger, I don't know as I'm a huge fan.  Punch, punch, block, block, spinning roundhouse.    I think the same fight choreography was used in every episode.  I LIKE his spinning roundhouse, but c'mon.  If I EVER spar with Chuck Norris, I know what I'll be looking for, especially if he throws a right cross first.  Helmet please!   ;D
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Nifty

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 10:42:14 am »
Chuck Norris' tears can cure cancer.  Too bad he has never cried.

Chuck Norris does not sleep.  He waits.

Chuck Norris once won a game of Connect Four in three moves.

When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

Chuck Norris' calendar goes from March 31st to April 2nd.  Nobody fools Chuck Norris.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D


I think I knew that Segall's style was Akido (sp?) with the ju jitsu (sp?).  That's what Adam teaches Jesse, too, if I recall correctly.  I have a friend who has a black belt in a style of martial arts -- can't remember the style; it's not super-common -- and my friend suggested that if I ever wanted to do martial arts myself, Akido would be a good place to begin, because (he said) it's more of a defensive style, using your opponents' movements and momentum against him. 

Anyway...
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jackie

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2009, 12:56:54 pm »
I chose Aikido as a martial art for my son to learn because it was traditionally taught as defensive only, to the extent that the strikes used to start a lesson are defined as NOT Aikido.   They are also particularly well known for taking and teaching any student.  (including a wheelchair bound friend).

My son was very prone to impulsiveness leading him to haul off and hit people.  I wanted a system that didn't arm him better for making mistakes before the discipline kicked in. ;)

edited for typos
« Last Edit: March 17, 2009, 03:42:39 pm by jackie »

Mike Briggs

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2009, 02:31:53 pm »
I like Aikido.   It's an excellent defensive art, and you don't have to be a gung-ho testosterone jockey to get good at it.  Moreover, some of the simplest techniques are also the most powerful, and can be used with only modest training.  For example, there are a series of wrist and elbow locks that I used to "borrow" form Aikido when sparring with Karate types.

However, no martial art is perfect.  Shi She Kai doesn't have any grappling moves -- it was designed for massed combat, and the philosophy was that if you're busy controlling some guy with an arm lock, his buddy is going to kill you.  Shi She Kai is not much good for holding, controlling or subduing an opponent; it tends to leave them broken.  Aikido is the far end of the spectrum.  It's excellent for defense, and a perfect choice for subduing an aggressor.  However, if the attacker brought friends, you may be in trouble.  Aidkido has several techniques that can be used to produce breaks and grievous injury, but it's not as efficient at putting people down hard.

I'll mention that Shi She Kai worries me a bit -- regardless of the provocation, if you seriously injure or kill someone there is going to be a trial, and quite possibly some jail time.  Aikido makes it much more likely that your opponent will walk away unharmed, which greatly reduces your chances of jail time.  It's hard not to like that!
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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 01:59:43 pm »
I practiced Aikido for some years during my teen-years and I loved the philosophy behind it and the way it allowed you to throw your opponent off-balance using his force, not yours. :) However, after a while I came to realize that Aikido is fit for self-defense only if: 1) your opponent doesn't want to kill you, and 2) you have ample spaces to maneuver. Meaning, if you're in a narrow alley and 2 people are keeping you on the bad-end of a knife, you're doomed. The main flaw of Aikido, as in many others japanese martial arts, is that it expects respect on both parts, while it clearly isn't so in real-life situations. :-\

But for getting to know your body and become more fluid in movement and to learn how to fight with other people and saying "Thank you" after they threw you for a couple meters in the air, then Aikido is great and that's why I loved it. ;)
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jackie

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 03:21:25 pm »
Exactly why I chose it for my son!  He needed more lessons in how to give and receive respect than he did in effectively hurting people. ::)  He learned to move well and to understand the space around himself and others.  And he made friends both with adults and kids his age.  Both were personal challenges for him. 

Faolan

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 08:29:46 pm »
I'm a 2nd degree blue belt in Aikido and lemme tell you, you can use those moves on anything. Some members of our dojo use certain Aikido moves on their cattle and livestock. Personally, it works well with dogs too.

My family had a lot of wolfy dogs(Spitz, Husky, etc.) and whenever they play-fought with eachother, it was always step forward and spin. Aikido has a the same elements: Moving forward and turning and spinning. I had always envisioned it as a werewolf-y way to fight, so you can imagine my joy when I read that Adam and Jesse knew Aikido. It also seems like it's be good against multiple foes. I've seen a 4 foot something girl put in a middle of a circle of about 8 grown men, and then fling them around. While giggling.

The Wolf is also one of the animals my Sensei uses to illustrate the concepts of Aikido. ^_^

Patti L.

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Re: Shi She Kai Kan - Martial Arts
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 09:22:19 pm »
Somehow I missed the earlier posts about the white belts and how they're more likely to hurt you. 
Reminds me of the adage about how "The best swordsman in the world doesn't worry about fighting the second best, he worries about the WORST; he has no idea what the idiot will do!"  Because he (or she, thank you very much) hasn't developed the habit of attack, parry, repose, etc., and when you're expecting them to go thisaway, they've gone thataway, and you find yourself run onto their blade.
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