The Hurog Family

Patricia Briggs' Books => Characters Board => The Weres => Individual Characters => Topic started by: klasykrose on September 19, 2007, 02:27:16 pm

Title: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: klasykrose on September 19, 2007, 02:27:16 pm
If Mercy ever had children is there a possibility that they could be both Were and Walker?  I know you said that there might be a chance of having human, were, or walker.  But could there also be a combination of the two {were and walker}?

ETA: Edited for a title change. Elle.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on September 20, 2007, 10:12:46 am
Would that mean the kid would be schizophrenic? Or would the kid just hate themselves? ???
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on September 20, 2007, 11:48:58 am
It might be interesting having a were-walker combo.... like maybe they would have a wolf form, but not be bound to the moon.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on September 20, 2007, 07:10:56 pm
Well straightforward weres & walkers aren't completely tied to the moon.  Mercy can change or not at any time.  Weres do have to change at the full, but may at other times.  To me, that isn't an issue.
What I wonder is: would the child/ren look like mutts?  half of each?  with only one alternate shape, prone to silver poisoning?  Or would they have 3 shapes, human, wolf, & coyote?  How many of which charactaristics would they have?  Strength?  Rapid healing? succeptibility to silver & moon changes?  Longer lifespan, shorter, or normal human?  Or would there be a range of variations if she had more than one child, just like the mutt offspring of (for instance) a husky & a dalmation?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on September 28, 2007, 01:54:30 pm
ahhh... the wonderfully complicated world of genetics...

I think the mutt Idea is cool.... and they could have less strong versions of both the werewolf and walker powers.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on September 28, 2007, 07:11:44 pm
Or amplified, as sometimes happens in cross-breeding.  Now that would be seriously cool!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on September 29, 2007, 06:51:14 pm
I'm all for the each child getting a slightly different blend, that makes sense to me.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on September 29, 2007, 08:15:24 pm
Like the children in the Raven duology? she asked slyly.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: jenniwee on October 03, 2007, 07:40:05 pm
Actually, I wonder how Mercy's children will be accepted by the pack.  Will they be like church babies, where everyone loves them and makes over them.  Or will they have to be protected.  And will the combination of were and walker traits affect how the pack treats them.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on October 03, 2007, 07:51:19 pm
A little of all of the above I believe. ^^
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on October 04, 2007, 11:35:32 am
Depends on who you are talking with.
Warren, and some other wolves would probably love them.
Leah types would probably not have a problem with them being an appetizer.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: jenniwee on October 11, 2007, 09:28:24 pm
So, do you think were children never get sick?  No need for well baby check ups or immunizations?

Or what about having a baby walker in daycare?  "Really, she turned into a coyote in the middle of her nap?  No, I have no idea what could have caused that."

You'd probably go through alot of babysitters  ;).

But I think I'd like kids that stay healthy all the time.  I see our pediatrician way too much.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on October 12, 2007, 06:43:08 am
It would really suck if the kid bit someone in day care. :o

"Has he had his rabies shots..."
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 20, 2007, 01:03:45 pm
You know, I just thought about this for a couple of minutes, & it leads to some interesting speculation.
Because, as Charmed can tell you, kids bite each other anyway, & human bites are the worst to deal with.  It's weird when you think what animals lick, but human mouths are more full of disease than animal mouths as a general rule.
And we know that it takes being mauled nearly to death, or at least a bite to someone who's near death already to cause them to Change.  But what effect would a simple bite by a young were wolf, especially one who was born to it rather than Made, have on the child being bitten?  Would it get infected?  Cause a brief fever, like a cold?  Heal faster & more cleanly than if it had been a fully human child of the same age who bit them?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: jenglows on October 20, 2007, 01:12:26 pm
Most biters are toddlers around 18 months - 2 1/2 years and they rarely break the skin.  Usually, it's just a really nasty teeth imprinted bruise for a week or more. It takes a lot of force to break through skin - especially through clothing. Human teeth aren't that sharp when compared to animals that do a lot of puncture biting.  Even sharks use a side-to-side motion to tear instead of peirce flesh.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: jenniwee on October 20, 2007, 03:10:44 pm
Glows right.  My son is a biter and he's never broken the skin.  Besides I imagine most were parents would teach their kids not to bite pretty quickly. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 20, 2007, 03:19:17 pm
You guys (gals, but generically, I use 'guys') know more about it than I do.  I think my vision of this was formed in part by a tv show not too long ago where a new practicioner at an ER sewed up a teen aged girl's hand after she was bitten, making another Dr. there examine her credentials, finding out that the new person wasn't actually a doctor.  And I've worked in the dental field, so I've seen some pointy teeth!  Plus other stuff I've read where that's said, about how dirty human mouths are.
And I think you're right, if you had one of the rare were children, you probably wouldn't take him/her to daycare, you'd have pack/mates of pack members falling all over themselves to watch the kid until they were old enough to understand.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on October 21, 2007, 01:41:03 pm
Just like with a real wolf pack!

"Yes you have to watch the kids Ben... just because you eats cats doesn't mean they are allowed to."

 ;D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 21, 2007, 01:45:27 pm
Oh, Spryte, you should tidy that up & put it in the sarcastic or otherwise fatherly advice thread, too!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on October 21, 2007, 01:53:32 pm
I like that idea... in that case you'd better make sure you end up with Adam,Mercy, he has a pack he can make babysit for you!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on October 21, 2007, 02:13:20 pm
I plan on it Patti.

Hahaha! I can see Darrel having to babysit one month. *snicker*
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Iris101 on October 21, 2007, 04:43:56 pm
LOL  at least he's a doctor ;)  And it probably helps how fast he heals...

LOL  I can just see Adam making some kind of chart full of who babysits, and all the rules/times that go along with their kid :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 21, 2007, 07:01:03 pm
Lol, you all are forgetting that hypothetical kid has a built in babysitter - big sis Jessie. Although Mercy woudl probably love having Warren and Darryl babysit also.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 21, 2007, 07:14:03 pm
Yeah, but like any teen, Jessie's going to want & need time off for her own social life.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 21, 2007, 07:18:08 pm
True enough but that won't stop Adam and Mercy from having her babysit from time to time and the the teenage angst of being stuck taking care of her infant half-brother woudl provide some interesting minor storylines.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 21, 2007, 08:40:13 pm
Or half-sister.  And if the little one can shift the way Mercy did, there could be somer really fun subplots.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rob on October 21, 2007, 08:42:28 pm
Can we just take a moment...step back...and picture Stefan babysitting....I think I just cracked a rib or two...I think I need a doctor
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 21, 2007, 08:48:01 pm
Werewolf doctor?
Where's the barbecue sauce?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rob on October 21, 2007, 08:51:33 pm
Werewolf doctor?
Where's the barbecue sauce?

Planning on a late meal?  What'd I do to you, Patti?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 21, 2007, 08:56:06 pm
Naw, we'll just take one, over to the food fight thread.
It'll balance out your Adam's Rib.
At least, if the werewolf Dr. has enough self control.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on October 22, 2007, 07:48:57 am
I bet Medea wouldn't be to happy about a baby coyote running around bugging her.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Iris101 on October 22, 2007, 12:10:24 pm
Bugging her?  Id think she'd be happy as long as they didnt EAT her
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on October 22, 2007, 05:32:25 pm
true
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on October 22, 2007, 06:03:08 pm
She'd probably think it was Hers.  :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 22, 2007, 06:15:55 pm
Medea being Medea, she'd probably treat the kid as her own kitten, yeah.  Shoot, she'd treat BEN as her own kitten, given the chance.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on October 22, 2007, 06:19:46 pm
You betcha. I actually like Ben in some strange way. He's highly amusing.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Iris101 on October 23, 2007, 12:08:20 pm
Ben is one of my favorites :D

I know its kinda wierd but heres the order of my favorites, 1 being the most

1-Mercy
2-Adam
3-Mac(but hes dead)/Ben (he takes 3rd because hes alive)/Warren
4-Sam
-----------------
Ben and Sam go back and forth though depending on whats happening in the book.  But since the last thing that happened with Ben made me love him like a thousand times more hes ahead of Sam
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on October 23, 2007, 03:05:15 pm
mine goes:
1)mercy
2)sam/adam/and stefanare all tied here
3)warren and ben go here
4)zee
then i like mac and gabriel and jesse

ben is a favorite of mine i hope we hear more about him soon  ;D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on October 25, 2007, 10:22:41 am
I like Ben too. He makes me chuckle. Kyle is pretty high on my fav list. Just cuz hes a tricky bastard. I don't think I could order them though. I really tend to like whoever I'm reading about and forget the rest.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Iris101 on October 25, 2007, 04:15:16 pm
I dont really like Kyle too much right now.  But maybe that'll change if/when he gets more involved...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on October 26, 2007, 01:15:46 pm
i really like him too i forgot to put him on my list, he's probably in between 3-5
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on October 26, 2007, 07:16:31 pm
So... 4?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on October 26, 2007, 07:26:43 pm
around there because he's close to zee but after this new book i think i might like zee more moving kyle to closer to 5 but i like him in every scene so sround 3/4 yes
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on October 27, 2007, 05:55:43 pm
My fav characters are Mercy, Adam, Bran, Kyle, Warren, Ben, Charles, Tony, and Zee.... oh and we can't forget Wulfe... and their may be a few more....

oh shoot why do I even try?! They are all so interesting! Mercy sucks me into the story, Adam in turn scares and fascinates me, Bran makes me laugh and curious, Kyle is hilarious, Warren makes me smile, Ben amuses me, Charles makes me curious, Zee makes me laugh, Wulfe creeps me out...... and the other characters all have their own unique little things that make me like them (or want them to go away really intensely  ;D).

I like them all.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 27, 2007, 06:59:31 pm
So let's at least see some speculation on what charactaristics they would give Mercy's kids?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Iris101 on October 28, 2007, 11:50:33 am
I wonder how the vampires would feel about a Walker/Werewolf mix...With the Walkers ability to change instantly and their ability to ignore their magic, and the Weres ability to have enhanced abilities and pack protection I dont think they are going to like it too much
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on October 28, 2007, 12:10:55 pm
Well since we don't know the extent of Mercy's powers...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 28, 2007, 12:33:00 pm
No, we don't know the extent of Mercy's powers but the vampires hate and fear walkers in principle and are cautious of Mercy. The werewolf genetic contributions has the potential to add strength, speed, etc so a child with both attributes would not be on the vamps Christmas list. :P
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rob on October 28, 2007, 12:38:17 pm
Unless it was on the christmas list for dinner...especially the head vampire lady (I forget her name)...doesn't she have a taste for werewolves...imagine adding walker blood to the mix
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 28, 2007, 01:20:32 pm
ROB!!!!!!!!

How can you say such a thing?!

Those poor pups. Though, you are probably right. I don't remember her name either but she might like a walker/were for dessert.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rob on October 28, 2007, 01:25:17 pm
I'm stating a thought...I'm not the one who came up with the creepy lady vampire
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 28, 2007, 01:29:43 pm
How come you're all (all y'all're) too lazy to go over to the ID cards area & look up her name?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 28, 2007, 01:31:17 pm
Because I forgot about the ID cards: I tend to forget they exist.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on October 30, 2007, 08:06:19 am
her name is marsillia
and i dont think they would be too happy about it, especially since the vamps seem to know more about walkers than mercy does, they could be in real trouble if were attributes were mixed
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on November 03, 2007, 04:11:46 pm
Thank you soo much! Thats true, I forgot that Samuel was still just speculating as to Mercy's children all living and her being able to cross-breeds with a werewolf.  Plus the dominance of the werewolf over humans also.  Thanks again for clearing that up, and I cannot wait for your book  ;D

Kiersten
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on November 03, 2007, 07:52:20 pm
I don't like her... she rubs the wrong way....

but she makes a good power hungry vampiric mistress.

Sucks for Stefan that he's saddled with her though.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on November 03, 2007, 07:54:45 pm
but hes not connected to her like the others are, she bothers me sometimes-like her tapping-but i can live with her
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on November 06, 2007, 06:48:40 am
I wouldn't want to live with her. She might eat me. ;D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on November 06, 2007, 08:55:42 am
ha ha yeah, i wouldn't mind living with stefan though
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on November 13, 2007, 04:59:37 am
I would. I can't get bacterial endocarditis again.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kiersten Walks Funny on November 13, 2007, 10:11:13 am
don't want to know
but stefan is cool, i would live with him
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Fonseca on February 11, 2008, 11:50:44 am
Actually, more a question about babies in general.

Why can't a were couple procreate au natural or by test tube and then transfer the embryo to a non-were uterus?

Forgiveness if Patty previously answered, I'm new to the forum ;D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Grey Drakkon on February 15, 2008, 06:28:58 am
Personally, I think it's because the were baby ITSELF has the ability to change, and just winds up ripping itself apart.  I think at first it's forced to change along with the mother, but if she somehow manages to stave off the change, as the fetus gets larger it also gets affected by the moon's pull. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on February 15, 2008, 09:17:49 am
Personally, I think it's because the were baby ITSELF has the ability to change, and just winds up ripping itself apart.  I think at first it's forced to change along with the mother, but if she somehow manages to stave off the change, as the fetus gets larger it also gets affected by the moon's pull. 

But if the fetus has to change wouldn't the mother has to change later in the pregnancy to accomodate the baby. I don't think its possible for a human womb to have a wolf pup? I know in the Tortall series by Tamora Pierce - Daine had to shapeshift to accomodate her first child because she shapeshifted so much earlier in her pregnancy. Her daughter caught on to that and began to shift which Daine had to match her baby's shapeshifting shapes.

Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Nifty on February 15, 2008, 09:20:17 am
I know in the Tortall series by Tamora Pierce - Daine had to shapeshift to accomodate her first child because she shapeshifted so much earlier in her pregnancy. Her daughter caught on to that and began to shift which Daine had to match her baby's shapeshifting shapes.

I haven't read those books, but that sounds funny...and uncomfortable for poor mom!!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: rox_squirrel on February 15, 2008, 08:40:49 pm
Personally, I think it's because the were baby ITSELF has the ability to change, and just winds up ripping itself apart.  I think at first it's forced to change along with the mother, but if she somehow manages to stave off the change, as the fetus gets larger it also gets affected by the moon's pull. 

I don't think this is quite true because if the baby shifts and tears itself apart, how was Charles born?  his mom held off her change for the pregnancy and he was born fine -- no shifting in the womb is mentioned.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Grey Drakkon on February 16, 2008, 09:40:08 am
But if the fetus has to change wouldn't the mother has to change later in the pregnancy to accomodate the baby. I don't think its possible for a human womb to have a wolf pup? I know in the Tortall series by Tamora Pierce - Daine had to shapeshift to accomodate her first child because she shapeshifted so much earlier in her pregnancy. Her daughter caught on to that and began to shift which Daine had to match her baby's shapeshifting shapes.

   
   Hence the reason they wind up miscarrying later on in the pregnancy.  I think bringing in how other books does it doesn't do much for this situation, since in just about every other book SOME were babies are born, while in hers NONE are, except in one case.

I don't think this is quite true because if the baby shifts and tears itself apart, how was Charles born?  his mom held off her change for the pregnancy and he was born fine -- no shifting in the womb is mentioned.
   
   Ah, but she used magic to subdue the change, so she very well have been subduing his change as well as hers.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on February 16, 2008, 10:15:24 am
Quote
   Hence the reason they wind up miscarrying later on in the pregnancy.  I think bringing in how other books does it doesn't do much for this situation, since in just about every other book SOME were babies are born, while in hers NONE are, except in one case.

I forgot to mention this in my original reply  :P  But if/when Mercy gets pregnant it would then mean that she would have shift to accommodate the monthly change of the baby because as a human she wouldn't be able to bear a wolf cub - which is why I used the Daine pregnancy as an example. I think Mercy could bear a a werewolf pregnancy as her change is instantaneous and quick- not violent or prolonged as a were.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Grey Drakkon on February 16, 2008, 10:21:43 am
I agree with that, she'd be able to keep up with the cub if that's the way it works. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Iris101 on February 17, 2008, 09:46:11 pm
Ya, but how would she know it was changing?  Would its change also be violent?  Or would it inherit her ability to change quickly and easily?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Cole on February 17, 2008, 09:59:10 pm
i had a big conversation about this with grey before the forum started and i believe that the baby changes in the womb as a fetus and also tears itself apart in the process but as a werewolf the magic should allow it to heal quickly as but that could cause to much shock to the biological system to such a tiny mass from the amount of energy used either causing death to the fetus or the mother has a miscarriage from the shock of the major depletion of energy in such a short period of time
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on February 19, 2008, 07:23:42 am
Ya, but how would she know it was changing?  Would its change also be violent?  Or would it inherit her ability to change quickly and easily?

I think Mercy can sense if a werewolf changes so she should sense if the baby is about to change. And Charles's changes are much quicker and less painful.

i had a big conversation about this with grey before the forum started and i believe that the baby changes in the womb as a fetus and also tears itself apart in the process but as a werewolf the magic should allow it to heal quickly as but that could cause to much shock to the biological system to such a tiny mass from the amount of energy used either causing death to the fetus or the mother has a miscarriage from the shock of the major depletion of energy in such a short period of time
Great insights Cole - but what about Walkers? Mercy's mother found her one day as a cub - did Mercy change in the womb also?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CheeseBK on February 19, 2008, 08:04:30 am
could mercy's child not inherit the walker-thingy from her??? so that the kid can control the change, well, I mean only change when it wants to, not dependant on the moon cycle??? Or maybe it would inherit only bein a walker.... since one fourth (I hope I remembered it right) of the werwolf-kids are purely human, it could be that mercy has a child that only inherits being human from the dad and the walker-thingy from her?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: dsgholam on February 19, 2008, 10:24:19 am
Quote
And Charles's changes are much quicker and less painful.

In Alpha and Omega, Charles said his changes still hurt.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: jenniwee on February 19, 2008, 03:32:31 pm
I always thought the penchant for humans to miscarry came from genetics.  Like a woman's body would sense the fetus as a foreign material and attack it (actually rather common in real human miscarriages, leading cause of early miscarriage is genetics). 

As for hurting the woman, at 3 or 4 months the fetus is only about the size of a grain of rice or (later) a peanut, not really big enough to do damage to a mother.  Plus you have the fetal sac (not the uterus, this is a sac that surrounds the baby) and the amniotic fluid as a barrier between the fetus and the mother.  Besides, if a baby werewolf could tear his mother apart from the inside, why don't we see this problem in actual wild animals?  Plus, I have been told by many doctors, that you would be surprised at the gymnastics that babies in utero get up to, all without harming the mother, that's the way the system is designed  ;). 

As for the fetus tearing itself apart, I would think that would only be valid if we saw it happening with full grown weres.  I could see the idea of energy depletion as valid.  Growing a baby (esp in the first 3 months) is exhausting.  It feels as if you've been running a marathon every day.  (To explain, during this time your basically making a few pints more blood, plus forming most of the fetuses organs) so you need lots of extra nutrients to support that work.  So I could see a human mother not getting the necessary calories to keep up with both the natural growth of any baby and the additional calories needed to support a were, thus causing the baby to fail to develop properly, and causing a miscarriage.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on February 19, 2008, 05:38:53 pm
Wow! Great info, Jenniwee!  Sounds like you & Cole have nailed it.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Grey Drakkon on February 20, 2008, 06:27:47 am
Ah, you reminded us of something Jenniwee, that weres need to eat a fair bit more than your average human.  I can easily picture the woman's body aborting the fetus because it's "attacking" her body by demanding way more resources than the body is ready or able to provide. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on February 20, 2008, 01:20:11 pm
Great thoughts!!!!
There was a documentary about pregnancy on telly about a year or so ago and they said that during a pregnancy the fetus fights for the same resources that the mother needs and that can cause conflict with the mother.
So if everyones ideas are right then it could mean that Mercy would have trouble bearing a werewolf baby unless somehow her magic/physiology can compensate for  this.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: jenniwee on February 22, 2008, 11:55:08 am
Actually, Has you raise a good point.  Is there a magical reason that causes women to abort were babies?  Since the Fae can mate with humans and have half-Fae children, why can't weres?  Does the Fae magic protect them?  Or is something else going on?

We've looked at most of the physiological reasons for abortion, but not any magical ones.  That could have huge ramifications on the Mercy/baby issue.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on February 22, 2008, 12:55:15 pm
I think that maybe a factor actually- I have the impression that fae may have difficulty having kids with humans although they can interbreed with them. Perhaps its a similar thing like with the werewolves?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: LadyErehwon on June 24, 2008, 09:30:23 pm
OK - assuming that sometime in the future the "how" of carrying a werewolf baby to term is figured out, I want to ask a related question.  There are a number of other topics dealing with the how of carrying a were baby to term - my question is how many? 

The normal rate of natural (not in vitro fertilization) twins is about 1:80, and triplets are much higher (1:80^2 or 1:6400 - gotta love Wikipedia for quick checks!).

The normal number of pups in a (Gray) wolf litter is about 5.

So, are werewolves more likely to have multiple births?  Now I know that werewolves to date (excluding Charles) have been made, not born, and so have an altered human genetic code.  Taking that further, the propensity for multiple births might go up due to the number of required genetic mutations that have to take place for anyone to Change.  So, what do you think? 

(My sister-in-law is now expecting triplets, so I may have to come in later and hypothesize about multiple werewolf/werewolf-walker babies....)

Imagine - Jon and Kate plus 8 - the pups pursuit of playful pranks!  Or, take the image of the toddler walker from another post x3 - who bit who during playtime at daycare?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Sirikith on July 12, 2008, 03:50:16 pm
I´d say the human way with singular babies as standard. Weres spend most of their time in human form, so they should normally have only one egg ripen.
also the anatomy of canids is better equipped for dealing with a higher number of offspring-their uteri have two horns, and they have more than two "feeding devices"
would be very impractical if werewolf-mothers had to handle several babies.
last but not least, wolves are predators more vulnerable to hunger, cold and danger than humans, so they need more offspring so that a sufficiently great number survives and reaches adulthood. Werewolfs with their mostly civilized lifes don´t need to breed that fast to cover the loss-not to mention that they´re nearly immortal. and I don´t think the loss through dominance fights will apply before puberty. ans kills because of "not being albe to control the wolf" should also been seldom with born werewolves
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Snoopy on July 22, 2008, 11:40:13 am
He didn't perform any midnight laboratory tests on Mercy because he's not that kind of a man. 

Ah, Patty, that was beautifully put. So Sam!!
 :)


Edit: Okay, strange, where did Patty's post disappear to...?

Ah, found it, it's in the original Ask Patty thread... of course... Duh
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: munkee on September 25, 2008, 10:14:23 am
Perhaps I'm channeling another story line in this, but isn't the were-conversion like a virus? don't you have to virtually be almost killed in order for your body's natural defense system to shut down and for the virus to take over? wouldn't that mean that it could make a woman's womb a very unhospitable place for a fetus? kinda like getting clamydia for a human, if not stopped can cause sterility.....

and I don't think the were gene's take over until after the child is born.
I DOUBT mercy shifted whilst being carries by her very human mother. mercy was something like 3 months old when her mother found a coyote pup in the crib instead of a baby.

the body's natural tendancy is to protect the baby and it'll do that at all costs, inclding sapping any and all nutreints from mom. (brittle fingernails, bad teeth, so on) so unless there is an outside force (in humans and were's) such as a virus, the body will protect the baby. But if the body doesn't realize the virus it's already accepted kills off offspring....

I mean, it could very well have been magic that charles' mom used, or it could have been an herbal thing plus magic thrown in to counteract the virus from destroying the fetus.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Tambayo on September 26, 2008, 02:39:40 pm
Perhaps I'm channeling another story line in this, but isn't the were-conversion like a virus? don't you have to virtually be almost killed in order for your body's natural defense system to shut down and for the virus to take over? wouldn't that mean that it could make a woman's womb a very unhospitable place for a fetus? kinda like getting clamydia for a human, if not stopped can cause sterility.....

and I don't think the were gene's take over until after the child is born.
I DOUBT mercy shifted whilst being carries by her very human mother. mercy was something like 3 months old when her mother found a coyote pup in the crib instead of a baby.

the body's natural tendancy is to protect the baby and it'll do that at all costs, inclding sapping any and all nutreints from mom. (brittle fingernails, bad teeth, so on) so unless there is an outside force (in humans and were's) such as a virus, the body will protect the baby. But if the body doesn't realize the virus it's already accepted kills off offspring....

I mean, it could very well have been magic that charles' mom used, or it could have been an herbal thing plus magic thrown in to counteract the virus from destroying the fetus.
Given the physical changes (sharper senses, strenght, speed, metabolism, immunity, etc.) I got the impression that the virus actually rewrites part of the DNA. So a baby would have the changed DNA to build from and not a virus to fight. Meaning that a baby of werewolf and human parents would have DNA from 2 different species to mix.
Also the possibility of too high an energy demand on the mother makes sense. Especially taking the blending of 2 species DNA in to account.

After all the reason Bran has to take the pack public is because of the DNA difference in the blood that too many labs can now detect and no longer write off as contamination or mistakes.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: munkee on October 02, 2008, 08:49:58 am
hokay, so speaking from a genetic angle on all this, how exactly would the were abort a child then? According to the bran storyline, it's because of the change (also a few other authors have taken this route as well). If that's the case, then it has to do with the mutation of the genes when the were transforms. Since the transformation is mandatory whenever a full moon happens or whenever an alpha calls, it would make carrying a child subsequent to the moon and an alpha's whims. What is it exactly that makes the transformation deadly to the baby? I do not think the moon would call so much to a baby until outside the womb (let's just take that one for granted cuz if not, weird nightmares later). Could it be that the "wolf" is not capable of carrying a human child inside during the "call"?

ugh, my head hurts again.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Tambayo on October 02, 2008, 11:31:06 am
For starters changing is painful and that causes a stress reaction that a pregnancy doesn't handle well. Other possibilities are the inability to adapt to the different shape of the uterus, since that changes too.

Regarding human and were parent. Too different DNA species have a lot of misses in merging the genepairs correctly. Especially since human and wolf are not closely related species.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 21, 2008, 08:13:15 am
I may have forgotten or missed this, but what would be the chance of a she werewolf donating an ovum & her husband/mate the sperm, and having a baby carried by a host mother?  Maybe the she wolf's sister?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Good Mazoku on October 21, 2008, 12:56:42 pm
I may have forgotten or missed this, but what would be the chance of a she werewolf donating an ovum & her husband/mate the sperm, and having a baby carried by a host mother?  Maybe the she wolf's sister?

That's hypothetically possible, but first we have to determine a number of things involving werewolves, particularly about antigenes and chromosomes, otherwise the "host mother" might no be able to carry to term anyway. I'm not very into this kind of thing, but I think that's the basics. ;) With this I mean: we have to determine wether werewolves still belong to the human species or if they're another species entirely, since this kind of operation can be done only (if I'm not mistaken) with subjects belonging to the same species. :)

LadyErehwon, I'd say that it'd work mostly the human way, for more or less the same reasons that Sirikith said. :) Being that the main form of werewolves still is the human one, a human woman would have serious trouble handling a pregnancy with 5-6 twins: they'd be underweight at birth, prone to respiratory problems due to a higher possibility of an early birth, this kind of things. And their mortality rate would probably increase: I think in most multiple births (6+) I heard of, there was always a casualty or a dangerously close call to it. :-\ That's because we're not "thought" to give birth to more than 2 or 3 babies at the same time, naturally. I mean, take horses: one foal is ok, 2 foals is the death of both and maybe the mother's too. O_o We have a slightly higher variability, but still...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: caerali on October 21, 2008, 04:16:19 pm
***SPOILERS***

Quote
I may have forgotten or missed this, but what would be the chance of a she werewolf donating an ovum & her husband/mate the sperm, and having a baby carried by a host mother?  Maybe the she wolf's sister?









See I was thinking that too, way back when I was reading Cry Wolf.  I had read them out of order, hense my wild imagination.

But anyway . . .  I figured Sam and Mercy would hook up and given Mercy's unique genetics, she could be a surrogate parent for Charles and Anna.  As dominant as Samuel is, I thought maybe his close bond between his family would override some of the dominance that he exhibits and allow it to possibly happen.  He's a doctor too, which fit so well into my theory.  No, I didn't expect them to all go mate swapping, just possibly carry a child for them.  Not sure if Mercy would go for it though.  Of course, I don't know if she's overly eager to have children anyway.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 22, 2008, 08:14:12 am
Doesn't sound that way.  She is in her early 30s.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: tangent on October 31, 2008, 08:30:57 am
After my recent experiences trying to crate train a sweet female German Shepherd stray, I have to wonder -- would Walker/were youngsters/pups need to go in a dog kennel instead of a crib for a safe naptime/bedtime,just like Lab pups? 

I do have a photo of my friend's then five-year-old daughter who declared she was a puppy when I was babysitting.   She and my then five-month old Lab curled up in the Lab's kennel, and the child shut and latched the kennel door from the inside behind her saying "puppies can get in SO MUCH trouble we are good puppies."

Good thing Child Welfare didn't burst through the door at that moment <wry grin>"  I could just see trying to explain that one... did I mention she wouldn't "change" from puppy to girl even when I sat down with some ice cream? "I can't give this to puppies, it will make them sick"  did not initiate a "change" from this determined youngster.     

Too cute.

Best,

Tangent
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ArtAngel on October 31, 2008, 11:54:56 pm
I can sooo see a kid doing that! How cute!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: xanthee on January 11, 2009, 11:19:23 am
First time poster here...Actually first time poster on any discussion board...so thanks in advance for your patience.

Just a thought and would like to know if it is possible in Patricia's werewolf world.
I know female werewolves cannot have children on their own but this is the modern era. What about a werewolf couple using a human surrogate? I am surprised that Samuel being a modern trained doctor didn't think about it. Now that the wolves are public this would seem to be more feasible. With a surrogate it wouldn't matter if the fetus was human or wolf. It could be a really interesting subplot in one of the books.

Another idea is if werewolf has to become a wolf at least once a month, why doesn't the females just stay wolf until their child is born?...OK that may have other problems associated with it but it would avoid the miscarriage problem.

Patty I love all your books. I grew up in northern Idaho and I really enjoyed that the wolf series are based in eastern WA and MT. It is really well done and I feel like I am back there when I read your books.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Dobbythehouseelf on January 11, 2009, 02:37:11 pm
Well human wives of werewolves miscarry over half of the children they give birth to, any baby that isn't fully human.  My guess is that werewolf babies a drawn to change on the full moon and that causes them to miscarry. 

I think the possibility of a female wolf staying in wolf form was discussed on another thread but I can't remember where. 

Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: xanthee on January 11, 2009, 05:17:33 pm
Thanks for the reply.

I should have assumed that the idea of staying wolf has been discussed before.

My other idea about the surrogate is slightly different because the unborn would be pure
wolf in a pure human so maybe the miscarriage thing wouldn't apply.

Probably over thinking it or letting my imagination go too far....  :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on January 11, 2009, 09:31:56 pm
I think on that thread it was more or less decided that female werewolves couldn't remain in wolf form for the nine month for any of these three reasons, longer you stay a wolf the more strength the wolf half has, the fetus would return to human shape naturally and abort, or be fully human in the first place, and how would you explain your wife disappearing for 9 months?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ArtAngel on January 11, 2009, 10:18:14 pm
Here is a link to at least one of the children discussions. I think there are a few ;D

http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=933.0 (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=933.0)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: OmegaMarie on February 09, 2009, 09:09:59 am
I think on that thread it was more or less decided that female werewolves couldn't remain in wolf form for the nine month for any of these three reasons, longer you stay a wolf the more strength the wolf half has, the fetus would return to human shape naturally and abort, or be fully human in the first place, and how would you explain your wife disappearing for 9 months?

Nice thought, it would be hard to have a wife disappear for 9 months although if she had family from out of state she could visit...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on February 09, 2009, 09:19:22 am
Still, who's wife leaves for 9 months without the husband leaving as well? And most people can't afford to have that long of a break from a job.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on February 09, 2009, 09:49:20 am
One of the mods will shortly merge this thread with the other werewolf children threads.
(I'd do it now, but I've got to catch a bus!  Bye!)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Morgaine0000 on February 12, 2009, 05:20:50 pm
I think the main problem with the "stay wolf for 9 months" solution is that if human wives only can have a child who is fully human - it seems logical to assume that the wolf could only have a child who was only werewolf- and wouldn't be human at all.    And then, of course, you have all the logistical problems.   
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Michelle13 on March 09, 2009, 05:43:39 pm
Hello. New here, so hopefully I am not repeating.  ;D

If mercy were to get pregnant with a werewolf, i.e. Adam, The possability of multiple birth could be higher than say a werewolf/human mating. In an earlier reply it was mentioned that grey wolves have 5 pups average. With human anatomy a "litter" would be unlikely, but mercy isn't exactly human either. Coyotes tend to have 3-7 pups, just like wolves. And instead of a human/werewolf mating you are dealing with 2 canine species wolf/coyote (sort of, LOL). So would it not be possable for a multiple birth, say twins or triplets, from the cross with the various mutt abilities discussed? And, speaking purely hypothetically, Would the offspring of a were and a walker be able to have viable offspring themselves (3/4 were/ 1/4 walker) if they mated back into the pack, creating a subspecies of were who could reproduce?

This question has made my imagination take off at a run. LOL. :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CheeseBK on March 13, 2009, 02:31:05 am
michelle, I think your post is very interesting... I've been wondering about that myself a bit.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Nifty on March 17, 2009, 08:29:17 am
So would it not be possable for a multiple birth, say twins or triplets, from the cross with the various mutt abilities discussed?

In my imaginings, she has twins:  a boy and a girl.  I haven't named the boy, but the girl is Samantha. ;D

(I'm a dork.)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: alan on March 17, 2009, 12:59:47 pm
The boy would probably be named Adam.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: caerali on March 18, 2009, 03:36:22 am
Maybe twins, but I doubt to the point of triplets etc.  Biologicly speaking, canines are capable of sustaining multipule births.  Dogs have 10 teats, humans (and weres and walkers have 2).  They can have 5 on average (as stated earlier, but can sustain up to 10).  Humans, typically have one or sometimes two.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on April 15, 2009, 11:42:28 am
Actually I think Ms. Briggs has answer that question for us. Charles is the answer. They will be a mutt like Wolves and coyotes are out in the wild, but they will inherit gifts from both parents. Like Charles did. I don't think they would be affected by the moon because of Mercy's traits, but they will be able to shift as many times or faster then most wolves can. Cause basically a Wolf can mate with a dog,Coyote or a Hyena as well. However Charles has pretty much answer that question for us.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on April 15, 2009, 01:10:16 pm
Actually, hyenas are about as closely related to wolves as cats. They would not interbreed.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on May 25, 2009, 09:14:27 pm
My goof. However I think the children will inherit both traits from both parents like Charles.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on May 25, 2009, 10:08:39 pm
I believe Patty stated somewhere that in her mind you were either a walker or not, no halfbreeds. Because of that I think there could be human, walker, and werewolf children, not blendings. However, if that does happen I want to see which traits get thrown into the mix and which are removed. For example, a slow healing, short lived and hot tempered walk-were cross would be in alot of trouble.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on May 26, 2009, 01:54:52 pm
Also it could be they would be born one or the other. Which set of gene's will be the more dominate? Mercy's Coyote gene/Walker or Adam's WereWolf? Is the Walker ability pass from parent to child permanently or can there be two Walkers? A really good twist to this would be a set of twins. One being born a coyote/Walker and the other being a wolf with some of Mercy's Walkers abilities.

They don't even have to be identical twins either.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on May 26, 2009, 03:16:38 pm
Didnt the books mention that werewolves' genes were dominant?- so if Mercy ever got pregnant she would more likely be pregnant with a werewolf baby but I do like the twin idea especially since the twin sheep/lamb motif has cropped up several times in the books. *Cough* that walking stick! :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on May 26, 2009, 03:56:04 pm
They may be dominate to human genes, but that doesn't mean they're dominate to walker genes.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on May 26, 2009, 04:03:41 pm
Well the Walker genes and add the coyote element will definitely bring out an element of surprise as well as chaos. I bet the pregnancy would bring that out! LOL
But I suppose it would be interesting to see how that plays out- for instance if Mercy has a werewolf baby will it retain the Walker genes and pass it on to their kids instead?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on May 26, 2009, 05:09:20 pm
Another aspect to this question. The babies would be well protected as well. If Mercy and Adam felt that it was to dangerous to raise them currently in the city they are it. Then Mercy could take them to the Marrok and would be safe and spoiled there by him. I have feeling he wouldn't mind playing grand daddy and making sure the kids are kept safe in his pack.

The main reason I say that is because, Mercy has managed to alienate most of the other supernaturals near her. Who wouldn't take the advantage of kidding napping the kids from her or Adam? The safest place they would be is with the Marrok surrounded by his pack.

Also I don't think any one would be that stupid to mess with him trying to get the kids away from his protection.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: alan on May 27, 2009, 11:33:44 am
Mental picture  Bran + twins...yeah its as funny as i thought it'd be. :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on May 27, 2009, 11:45:50 am
Actually it would be kind of funny seeing him fawn over the kids. How often does he get the chance to be silly and goofy? Also having twins either identical to each other or different from one another would be something that would fit right in with Ms. Briggs world and story. Another question to answer, is which gender would get the Walker ability and which one would get the Were-Wolf ability?

We know that the Walker ability can be either gender. Just like the were-wolf gene as well. But which gender would be more suited for it?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: alan on May 27, 2009, 11:48:56 am
Depends on the type of person more than the gender.  Some female wolves are stronger than male ones.  Like the 13 year old.  She's the youngest to survive, sorry i forget her name.  But i'm not sure about any of this its more IMO then fact. ::)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CarolKat on May 27, 2009, 06:51:14 pm
Her name is Kara and I don't know of a werewolf gene per se as only Charles is born werewolf. Others never get the chance. Mercy having twins is a definate in my mind because the walking stick has befriended her,  I don't think after what happened in BC that the walking stick will do her harm at all.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on May 27, 2009, 08:24:05 pm
It would be neat if Mercy did have twins and identical, but one of them was a wolf and the other was a coyote. That way it would be confusing to people trying to identified which was which. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on May 27, 2009, 08:31:02 pm
If they were different species they wouldn't be identical. However, looking identical or similiar would also be interesting.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on May 27, 2009, 09:14:41 pm
They could be identical in human shape but different in changing shape.  Not to mention temperament.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CheeseBK on May 27, 2009, 11:48:53 pm
interesting ideas ;)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on May 28, 2009, 05:40:18 am
Give the coyote child Adam's temperament and give the Wolf child Mercy's temperament. That would even confuse people even more. Cause Adam is more patience then Mercy and that would be good for their child that is a Coyote and for thier other child give that one Mercy's temperament. It would fit the wolf aspect.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on May 28, 2009, 06:04:36 am
Or how about this- :D

A were coyote and a walker who shifts into a wolf!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CarolKat on May 28, 2009, 05:35:19 pm
Oh a were coyote what a concept and a shifter wolf my goodness Has..Is that even a possibility Were is an infection of sorts, Charles was the child of two werewolves so the infection could be passed. I don't think it's been established that were is genetic.shifter seems to be genetic so maybe a shifter wolf but I don't think a were coyote.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on June 02, 2009, 03:09:39 pm
I don't think it would be possible. The Walker aspect is linked to coyote form. It's a native American thing.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on June 02, 2009, 07:20:33 pm
No, it's not, at least not in this ficton.  Patty has said specifically that there are Walkers who have other shapes than coyote.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on June 02, 2009, 07:24:03 pm
and Patti plays the Patty trump card.

I'm not sure mercy can have a werewolf child. don't they become abortions in human women? wouldn't they do the same in a walker? I think Mercy is in for all of the heartache that christy (adam's ex) had with miscarriages.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on June 02, 2009, 08:46:53 pm
Is this in one of the books or was it in a forum conversion? Cause I'm very interested in that fact. So is my roommate. He's a big fan of hers as well. As for the childbearing, that's why Sam was interested in having Mercy as his wife. She can have kids safely and she's not required to change like Were-wolves.

She can go her whole pregnancy without changing from her human form. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on June 02, 2009, 08:55:35 pm
Werewolf women, don't have kids bcs they change every month and that kills the kid.
Human women can only carry human children to term bcs their body rejects the wolf. they have many miscarriages bcs 1/4 ish die (or maybe 3/4).

the question is which category is Mercy? Sam thinks not wolf.
Human or other. ?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on June 02, 2009, 09:04:15 pm
From what I read about Mercy, The whole relationship thing with Sam is because he knows she can have babies safely. Since she isn't affected by the moon and really don't need to change into her animal form. She is a blessing to the were-Wolf pack.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on June 02, 2009, 09:15:21 pm
Sam THINKS she will be able to have kids.
I don't think anybody knows and Patty isn't talking about it (at least not that I've heard).

I think it's part of the problem of a relationship between Sam and Mercy. It's all based on assumptions on maybes on could bes...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on June 02, 2009, 09:54:33 pm
All I know is that. She isn't affected like the Wolves are and can go without changing  forms if she wants to. Also since she is magical in nature why wouldn't she be able to met with Adam and have kids? She's not exactly human herself.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on June 02, 2009, 10:16:52 pm
All right, let's look at the points here.
Mercy does not have to change shape every full moon, so she won't spontaneously abort.
However, that doesn't mean she can bear children who are werewolves.
It also doesn't mean that her children would  be walkers.
Walkers are not 'non-human', they are humans with some extra abilities, like people who have extra good reflexes, or musical talent, or different skin pigmentation from their parents. 
Some of their children may inherit that something extra, some may not.
Yes, Mercy could have children by Adam.  Chances are poor that they would be werewolves OR Walkers; but better for Walkers. 
Or, it could be that she could NOT have children by a werewolf, only by either a basic human or by another Walker. 
Or possibly by some sort of fae.
Patty doesn't intend to do it any time soon.
Why should we get into arguments about it?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rob on June 02, 2009, 10:26:05 pm
And who's to say she is able to have children at all?  There are plenty of otherwise healthy women who are unable to conceive.

As Patti said, why argue......Patty is the writer and she'll deal with it as she sees best.  We just have to be patient and wait and see.

Quote
Until the day when God will deign to reveal the future to man, all human wisdom is contained in these two words,—‘Wait and hope.’

-Alexander Dumas, The Count of Monte Cristo

Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on June 02, 2009, 10:26:49 pm
yep ;D :D :D :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: alan on June 04, 2009, 10:31:31 am
I hate waiting.... >:(
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on June 04, 2009, 01:51:48 pm
Patience is a virtue. and it makes waiting easier :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: alan on June 04, 2009, 02:20:05 pm
Patience is a virtue. and it makes waiting easier :)

Yeah right!   ;)Don't make me laugh, this girl has no patience and would probably never call it a virtue, unless it was talking to someone she didn't like. ;) :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on June 04, 2009, 02:40:32 pm
Okay guys- sticking my mod hat now as this topic is verging way off topic ;)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on June 05, 2009, 02:52:17 pm
When it all said and done. I think Mercy is going to make a wonderful mother. Look how she did with her friends son and not to mention the relationship she has with Adam's daughter. If the two of them ever have kids, she'll be a great mother.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: primalSCREAM on June 16, 2009, 03:50:39 pm
I don't think Mercy is ready at all to have kids yet...she's way too independant and set in her ways....When she is ..I'm rooting for Sam....Idk  I just have a soft spot for him........
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on June 16, 2009, 04:02:34 pm
I don't see Mercy going back to Sam if she lost Adam.  And Patty has mentioned she has someone in mind for Sam; it isn't Mercy, who it turns out he doesn't actually love 'that way'; so it looks as though you're out of luck, Primal.

I am wondering what effect - if it's still with her - the walking stick will have on Mercy's children when she does get around to having them.  It seems to react to the current 'owner' or 'bearer' in varying ways; it seems to like Mercy, who isn't asking it for things for her, but for others as much or more.  And that needs to be moved to the walking stick thread.  Just wanted to bring it back to MERCY's children.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: primalSCREAM on June 17, 2009, 10:55:42 am
werecoyote? could it be possible?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Gwenhwyvar on July 02, 2009, 04:45:17 pm
This theory has been bouncing around in my head for a while now...


It is universally known that werewolf women cannot have children. This fact has nothing to do with any inherent infertility on their part, but the violence of the monthly compulsory change from human to wolf that spontaneously aborts any developing infant. This is widely known to be true.

It is also known that Sam, after Mercy left the Marrok’s pack, went into a period of mourning spanning several months where he stayed in wolf form. This is also true. From this understanding it should be safe to assume that a werewolf can stay as a wolf indefinitely, correct? No violent change monthly with the rise of the moon, just peace and quiet, if in a bit furrier shape than in human. 

Couldn’t then a werewolf female carry a pregnancy to term while in wolf form?

Werewolves are big, upwards of 250 lbs o more as wolves, more than large enough to carry even a human sized infant. So who is to say that it is not possible? If werewolves were not meant to propagate biologically then they would not be able to. The very fact that werewolf women are not rendered permanently infertile by their first change from human to wolf is possible. Look at Charlie! His very existence proves that werewolf + werewolf = werewolf. He was born from a werewolf mother who was able to use her magic to stave off the monthly change long enough to birth Charlie. But the effort killed her! There has got to be another way.

It is possible, but it seems to me that the werewolves are going about it all backwards. It is their Wolf that defines them, that sets them apart from the rest of the humans and fae. Why not embrace that fact a little closer? Given the facts that we know, the only way I can see to get a natural-born werewolf from a werewolf mother, without killing her, is for the mother to spend the pregnancy in wolf form.


Perhaps the answer to Sam’s anguish is little more than finding a werewolf mate who would be willing to try something unorthodox.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on July 02, 2009, 06:03:38 pm
My impression was that Sam spend most of the next month in wolf form. I don't think it was that long of a period little more then a month or two hat Bran knew for sure Sam spend a good portion of time as a wolf.  I could be wrong though, I lent my copy of MC out and I haven't gotten it back yet.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 04, 2009, 12:53:07 pm
That she has to be related to werewolves is already clear or she couldn't get pregnant by one, so the King's theory isn't that far off.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on July 04, 2009, 12:59:52 pm
She hasn't gotten pregnant by one yet...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pfefferminztee on July 04, 2009, 01:20:02 pm
Well, that is right, but it is presented as a given fact. :>
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on July 04, 2009, 01:27:19 pm
a given assumption.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Dathi on July 05, 2009, 06:26:54 am
That she has to be related to werewolves is already clear or she couldn't get pregnant by one, so the King's theory isn't that far off.


Errr... No.

She's human, they're human, they can breed.  She's Canis latrans, they're Canis lupus (sort of), they can breed.

Her canid-ness is genetic, not infectious. It's a very different syndrome. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on July 05, 2009, 10:33:35 am
It doesn't matter quite that much.  If relation to werewolves was required (more than being human), Jesse wouldn't exist, now, would she?  We already know that humans can have children by werewolves; they just have many miscarriages in the process.  That's also why Sam was so grief-stricken about his child who was aborted: odds were the fetus would have miscarried, but there was a chance, however small, that the baby would have lived. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on July 07, 2009, 03:52:37 pm
It doesn't matter quite that much.  If relation to werewolves was required (more than being human), Jesse wouldn't exist, now, would she?  We already know that humans can have children by werewolves; they just have many miscarriages in the process.  That's also why Sam was so grief-stricken about his child who was aborted: odds were the fetus would have miscarried, but there was a chance, however small, that the baby would have lived. 



No the only question is can a coyote/native-american shifter mate with a european were wolf shifter.  And because of the confidence exuded by samuel and the other older were's on this point, I lean towards confidence as well.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on July 07, 2009, 03:58:49 pm
Again, the question wasn't whether she could have them.  It was whether she could have them without the high rate of miscarriage that comes with werewolf/human matings.  Samuel thought it likely because she is a shapeshifter but she doesn't have to change.  However, Samuel has a certain desperation on the subject, which is what led to his actions with Mercy in the first place.  She might be just as prone to miscarrying werewolf children as a human woman, or not.  No one knows.  On the other hand, magic and Mercy have an odd relationship, which could effect the matter in either direction. 

Personally, I have no opinion on the matter.  Reading the books, I'd just as soon not have Mercy have children yet, because it would make adventuring less doable, particularly if she has a delicate/closely watched pregnancy.  But no special opinion on the possibility; depending on story needs, it could go either way. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on July 07, 2009, 04:27:57 pm
And this seems just a bit off topic. Shouldn't all of this be moved over to the mercy and the child question thread?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on July 07, 2009, 04:33:38 pm
* blushes with shame *  Sorry.  Got carried away by the argument. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on July 07, 2009, 05:11:39 pm
I know, I do it too, in fact, I deleted what I was going to say when I realised how off topic it had become. I think I mostly wanted to add the fact she was a walker might even cause her to be more prone to miscarriage. We just don't know yet.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on July 07, 2009, 07:29:03 pm
Again, the question wasn't whether she could have them.  It was whether she could have them without the high rate of miscarriage that comes with werewolf/human matings.  Samuel thought it likely because she is a shapeshifter but she doesn't have to change.  However, Samuel has a certain desperation on the subject, which is what led to his actions with Mercy in the first place.  She might be just as prone to miscarrying werewolf children as a human woman, or not.  No one knows.  On the other hand, magic and Mercy have an odd relationship, which could effect the matter in either direction. 

Personally, I have no opinion on the matter.  Reading the books, I'd just as soon not have Mercy have children yet, because it would make adventuring less doable, particularly if she has a delicate/closely watched pregnancy.  But no special opinion on the possibility; depending on story needs, it could go either way. 


I remember it was said in one of the books that all the children of a were and human parents are born normal.  They can be turned later but are born normal.  It seems to me that a large part of the misscarriages are because some of the kids are born were and the human parent can't support them or when the full moon hits it affects the baby and causes an abortion or something of the sort.

Seems to me that since mercy can change into a coyote without the physical trauma of change that forces an abortion with the female were's and instead near instantly converting from one form to the other, there is hope she might even be able to carry a were-baby to term.

I could be off my rocker on this one but that's what I think.  Plus it occurs to me that if the baby was going to go were while inside her, she might be able to share her magic resistance and stop the change or hold it off some how.  Who knows?



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on July 07, 2009, 07:33:27 pm
Seems to me that since mercy can change into a coyote without the physical trauma of change that forces an abortion with the female were's and instead near instantly converting from one form to the other, there is hope she might even be able to carry a were-baby to term.

Oh, there's always hope, and it's a nice indicator.  But despite a superficial similarity, Walkers and werewolves are very different creatures, with different magic, so it may not be sufficient.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on July 07, 2009, 07:35:02 pm
Who, indeed?  I think that's pretty much what Samuel is hoping, and why he wanted to marry her.

It's all guessing, though.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on July 07, 2009, 07:39:27 pm
Who, indeed?  I think that's pretty much what Samuel is hoping, and why he wanted to marry her.

It's all guessing, though.


For us the reader its all guessing, that's a given.  But we don't have a real solid indication one way or the other from the multi-centenial were's who have been in america for decades or centuries and who seem at least somewhat familiar with Mercy's coyote heritage.  They might know with certainty or as seems to be indicated Samuel and others are simply filled with hope.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: odile on July 31, 2009, 01:30:21 pm
Well if you go for genetics the werewolf genes seem to be dominant, seeing as human women miscarry 2 out of 3 times which is exactly the percentage you would get for a dominant genetic treat. Coyotes now seem to be either dominant or hyprid genetic treats otherwise for the genes to be resessive Mercy's mother would have to have carried the same marker as Mercy's dad in order to be expressed both would have to have 'handed' down the genes. Seeing that Mercy's mom has an exclusivly european heritage (if I remember it correctly) the coyote treat cannot be resessive. Dominant would mean the same likelihood for it to be passed on as the werewolf treat gets then they either cancel out each other or one of them is dominant to the other. Hyprid genes are quite scarce mostly occuring in plants such genes are in 1 out of three passed on in 1 mixed with the other genes and in 1 just not passed on. Seeing that Mercy and Adam are both human/animal the most likely is the dominant/resessive gene thing believing that both the coyote and werewolf treat are passed on dominantly their children will not have mixed abilities but be either wolf, coyote or human.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on July 31, 2009, 04:17:56 pm
It took me a little to work through that.
Once I understood that your computer has decided to put "treat" where you mean "trait", that the p kept being substituted for b in "hybrid", and that some of your punctuation got over run, I understand what you're saying, Odile.

Good genetic summation.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on July 31, 2009, 04:18:48 pm
But, it leaves out the magic aspect.  :-whistle
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Midangel on September 11, 2009, 01:11:07 pm
Hey Audrey, welcome to Hurog. It's great seeing so many international readers on Hurog.

I'll move your post to the Introduction thread here: http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3498.0 (http://hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3498.0) where you will get many more greeting from the wonderful users here at Hurog.

Again, welcome to Hurog.
Midangel, Wereboards Mod
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on September 19, 2009, 08:27:42 pm
Well if you go for genetics the werewolf genes seem to be dominant, seeing as human women miscarry 2 out of 3 times which is exactly the percentage you would get for a dominant genetic treat. Coyotes now seem to be either dominant or hyprid genetic treats otherwise for the genes to be resessive Mercy's mother would have to have carried the same marker as Mercy's dad in order to be expressed both would have to have 'handed' down the genes. Seeing that Mercy's mom has an exclusivly european heritage (if I remember it correctly) the coyote treat cannot be resessive. Dominant would mean the same likelihood for it to be passed on as the werewolf treat gets then they either cancel out each other or one of them is dominant to the other. Hyprid genes are quite scarce mostly occuring in plants such genes are in 1 out of three passed on in 1 mixed with the other genes and in 1 just not passed on. Seeing that Mercy and Adam are both human/animal the most likely is the dominant/resessive gene thing believing that both the coyote and werewolf treat are passed on dominantly their children will not have mixed abilities but be either wolf, coyote or human.


True.  However the question remains does mercy's ability to resist magic have any effect on the full moon effect on were wolves.  Is it possible or likely she could suppress the change which causes miscarriages in were babies, like charles mother did when she was pregnant with him.


The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on September 22, 2009, 05:05:02 am
I don't think she is affected by the moon like the wolves and didn't it mention some where in the books by Sam, that Mercy's natural magical abilities make it so she could change while she was pregnant?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on September 22, 2009, 02:53:35 pm
That is Sam's theory, it is not a fact.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on September 22, 2009, 04:56:52 pm
If I remember correctly, Sam's theory was that she could avoid changing during her pregnancy, not being tied to the moon like werewolves.  I don't remember any speculation about her having a special ability to change while pregnant.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on September 22, 2009, 05:54:30 pm
Yeah i second the avoiding the change thing. That's how Charles (or should I say Running Eagle  >D ) was born. His mom kept herself from changing for all eight months.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on September 22, 2009, 05:56:30 pm
I forget whoch book it was in, but Mercy mentioned that she once went 3 years without changing, and she also says that, unlike the werewolves, she does not have to change.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on September 24, 2009, 08:44:12 am
I forget whoch book it was in, but Mercy mentioned that she once went 3 years without changing, and she also says that, unlike the werewolves, she does not have to change.

does anyone remember which book? I don't remember it at all...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on September 24, 2009, 10:20:28 am
Moon Called. DOn't have it with me, so I can't tell you pages, in the first half I believe.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on September 24, 2009, 10:59:54 am
Moon Called. DOn't have it with me, so I can't tell you pages, in the first half I believe.


I suspect that if Mercy ever did get pregnant there would be a big horrahrah about her not changing.  And at some point she'd be forced to and there would be no problems with her being pregnant and changing.  Her change is so different from the were's that I don't see it as being an issue other than in the minds of the characters.  Still I wouldn't want to try it and be wrong.




The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on September 24, 2009, 05:49:06 pm
I think the magic that allows Mercy to change, would change the child inside of her as well. So no matter what form she was in, she would be pregnant. It would be hard on her animal form to carry a human baby, but the magic would change the child so that it would look normal in her animal form. This is just a guess tho. I want to say that Native American magic might work a little differently then the European virus that makes the Were-Wolf change.

If nothing else, Adam might suggest that Mercy for goes any type of shape shifting unless she really needs to. He would more then likely would want the children Mercy is carrying to be born and not put Mercy threw the anguish of losing the babies. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: YuleRule on October 11, 2009, 04:05:28 am
I thought that maybe Mercy's children would be werewolves, with the ability to rarely change into coyotes, and I wonder if Adam will allow Mercy to be with Sam, because he may like Sam.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on October 11, 2009, 05:27:52 am
I don't think Mercy would allow that.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: gryphon340 on October 11, 2009, 05:37:33 am
Why are we do want for kids for Adam and Mercy?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on October 11, 2009, 07:08:58 am
Because it would add to the story line. Sure it sort of destroys the story line as it is now, but think about this. Mercy has made some enemies that as a writer you could add in the element of the treats being directed towards her kids. Like they did in the TV series Charmed. In this case it would be directed towards both Mercy, Adam and the Marrok. Because of how important she is to him.

kids add another level of plot that could be added to the series if Ms. Briggs decide to more books about Mercy.

 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pfefferminztee on October 12, 2009, 08:05:11 am
I second that!

Moreover, it cannot always be sexual tension, that would be highly unrealistic. (And I don't say that there is no hot sex life in a long-term-relationship. It's just that other things get more important.)
Reading about Mercy and Adam starting a family, that would be totally great. :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 12, 2009, 04:46:48 pm
I second that!

Moreover, it cannot always be sexual tension, that would be highly unrealistic. (And I don't say that there is no hot sex life in a long-term-relationship. It's just that other things get more important.)
Reading about Mercy and Adam starting a family, that would be totally great. :D


While reading about Mercy and Adam starting a family might be interesting, it's not part of this topic. It's more of an offshoot. Let's keep this thread on topic please :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on October 22, 2009, 03:54:00 pm
I second that!

Moreover, it cannot always be sexual tension, that would be highly unrealistic. (And I don't say that there is no hot sex life in a long-term-relationship. It's just that other things get more important.)
Reading about Mercy and Adam starting a family, that would be totally great. :D


While reading about Mercy and Adam starting a family might be interesting, it's not part of this topic. It's more of an offshoot. Let's keep this thread on topic please :)




Boo hisss!  Any mercy and children questions would seem to necessitate family speculation.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on October 22, 2009, 03:56:26 pm
Well, you could start a thread on that topic and we can link the two :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 28, 2009, 06:27:50 pm
I had an off the wall thought here; a possible plot complication.
What if Mercy did get pregnant and miscarried, just like a typical human does 60% of the time?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on October 28, 2009, 06:32:37 pm
Then Sam will be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 28, 2009, 06:37:46 pm
Not necessarily; it would mean that that pregnancy didn't work.  See some of the other posts in this thread & elsewhere about how often some women miscarry.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on October 30, 2009, 05:06:41 am
Good point Patti- I wonder if the miscarriages from human women are timed near the full moon? Its probably around that time if a were baby would be lost because of the lack of magic and the capability of the mother to carry the child.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on October 30, 2009, 01:33:54 pm
Good point Patti.

That sounds like a very reasonable idea, provided it is the change that causes the miscarriage.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on October 31, 2009, 01:43:48 pm
Good point Patti.

That sounds like a very reasonable idea, provided it is the change that causes the miscarriage.



Would they know for sure it was the change?



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 31, 2009, 01:47:52 pm
And it wouldn't have to be; I repeat, non-werewolf couples have LOTS of miscarriages, and Mercy IS over 30, active, & gets thumped around sometimes.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on October 31, 2009, 02:09:07 pm
But if she does end up getting pregnant - you know for sure that Adam and the rest of the pack will go OVERBOARD to prevent that happening :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 31, 2009, 02:18:49 pm
To ATTEMPT to prevent it.  Ask Twobatfans among others about how sometimes there's just nothing that can be done. 

Oops, you mean getting thumped around.  Right.  Well, just because they try, that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on October 31, 2009, 02:22:59 pm
To ATTEMPT to prevent it.  Ask Twobatfans among others about how sometimes there's just nothing that can be done. 

Oops, you mean getting thumped around.  Right.  Well, just because they try, that doesn't mean it can't happen.

especially when you throw teleporting vampires into the mix.



the deposed king
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on October 31, 2009, 02:35:32 pm
Yep :D
No worries - I had like 2 bags of haribos today :S should have mentioned to prevent the thumping :P

But I think that is part of the danger especially if you have a rep of attracting trouble but it would be interesting later on to see. And to compare another werewolf who went through the same thing (Elena from the Otherworld series) She had the same fears and questions.
Another thing to keep in mind if Mercy ever does get pregnant it might create a bigger target on her and the baby because of the potential of her bearing a werewolf baby.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 31, 2009, 02:50:12 pm
Why would that make her &/or the baby/babies more of a target?  Research?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on October 31, 2009, 02:59:04 pm
Yep!
And the fact that in Moon Called you had the shadowy group testing new weres, if they could find a way to predict which people who is more able to survive the change then experimenting on a woman who could potentially bear a child who is a were could be valuable.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pink Elephants on October 31, 2009, 03:28:07 pm
Sinister...

But unfortunately, I don't think experiments on Mercy would yield usable results. One of the reasons the Fae and the Werewolves came out was because of all the unexplained forensic results they were getting. Science cannot account for magic.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on October 31, 2009, 03:28:45 pm
Well, given that Adam & possibly Bran, & maybe even Stephan would come down like the wrath of - all the werewolves in America - on anybody who tried it, and most of them aren't known...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on October 31, 2009, 03:47:45 pm
Wasn't Charles sent to kill some people that had been performing experiments on people? Or was it Bran in one of the Mercy books?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on October 31, 2009, 03:54:43 pm
It was Leo who was involved and selling them off - but we can start a new thread about this because I bet this is going to crop up as a plot thread :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on November 05, 2009, 06:17:40 pm
Even tho Ms. Brigg's has said she doesn't want Mercy to have children. There is some thing we have been forgetting about. Remember Mercy being raped by Tim and him using the magic fae goblet? As a plot device Mercy could had gotten pregnant by Tim, instead of Adam.

If nothing else the magic of the goblet could Mercy's body believe she was pregnant. Something similar to what happen to Anita when she thought she was pregnant and later found out she wasn't. Some thing likes this in a plot would be interesting. The first question would be how would she react to it and then the second question would be how would Adam react to it?   
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Avarel on November 05, 2009, 06:20:48 pm
Didn't the someone give her one of the day after drugs?
I seem to remember that...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CarolKat on November 05, 2009, 06:28:58 pm
Even tho Ms. Brigg's has said she doesn't want Mercy to have children. There is some thing we have been forgetting about. Remember Mercy being raped by Tim and him using the magic fae goblet? As a plot device Mercy could had gotten pregnant by Tim, instead of Adam.

If nothing else the magic of the goblet could Mercy's body believe she was pregnant. Something similar to what happen to Anita when she thought she was pregnant and later found out she wasn't. Some thing likes this in a plot would be interesting. The first question would be how would she react to it and then the second question would be how would Adam react to it?   

Mercy went on the pill when she knew she would be ending up in either Sam or Adam's bed.  She wasn't taking any chances, and we don't know how far Tim was in the act he may not have gotten there before she killed him he was still grunting as I recall.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on November 05, 2009, 08:07:27 pm
Wouldn't the magical properties of the goblet neutralize the effects of the Pill? After all, the Goblet had the ability to heal as well.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on November 05, 2009, 08:14:23 pm
Yeah, but no special fertility properties that were mentioned.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: gryphon340 on November 05, 2009, 08:15:14 pm
I think she was given the Morning after pill at the Hospital, if she went.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on November 05, 2009, 08:27:02 pm
I'm torn on this issue.  I don't think Tim wanted to get her pregnant, she was taking the pill, she may or may not have gotten a morning after pill, but the fairy goblet, AND the walking stick... plus, (again) the fact that some people are just naturally very fertile.  Was it Nottled who was on 2 types of birth control & still got pregnant?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on November 29, 2009, 07:41:24 am
I don't know, but I know what your talking about Patti. I knew a woman once in Navy housing that no matter how many times she took her birth control pills, she always ended up pregnant. Her husband refused to wear condoms or any pull out at the last moment.

Also I don't think it was what Tim would plan, but what might happen because of how carry away he got raping her. He wanted to dominate and control Mercy. Plus, we don't know exactly what happen either, Ms. Briggs sort of white washed over it. Which is fine, but it leaves a plot open to use later, maybe. 
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Has on November 30, 2009, 05:11:18 pm
I very very much doubt this plot point is going to be explored because of the ramifications in future books. I am with CarolKat about how far Tim went during the rape although it was vague. But Mercy was on the Pill I presume for at least 6 months or so and if she miss a pill or 2 it would usually take a few months for her reproductive cycle to get back in sync.
I dont think Tim wanted to get her pregnant he was planning on killing her albeit via suicide. Also Rape victims are usually given emergency birth control and there is a 72 hour window so I am pretty sure Mercy is covered on all basis.

Also you got to take account that Mercy consummated her relationship with Adam a couple of weeks later and for me thats too much of a soap opera element in the series- and I doubt Patty will use this as a plotline just my 2 pennies :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Ellyll on November 30, 2009, 05:14:16 pm
Yes, yes, yes, and yes.  :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: TheDoctor on December 01, 2009, 12:06:06 pm
That was such an intense part of the book, when Mercy was raped and the aftermath. The aftermath was the worst, so well done and intense it made you feel her emotions. I was so depressed (I get

really into my books  :-whistle) The whole thing with Ben... I actually like Ben alot now that he's not jsut a mouthy jerk. Glad there's more to him than just a transfer wolf from the UK.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: 2shay on April 05, 2010, 01:17:26 pm
I haven't read the whole thread.  Has anyone asked if Mercy will have twins?  Because of the walking stick?  One wolf and one coyote?  Many possibilities.  All fun.  And, of course, the whold pack would adore them!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pendle on April 13, 2010, 10:02:30 am
So, what will happen? Will Mercy be able to bear werewolf cubs? Will they be some odd Hybrid?

By hybrid, do you mean the animals mixing? What if all the werewolf/walker aspects can be mixed? Including the walker magics, or werewolf strengths? I can almost imagine Mercy's first child being a coyote with an allergy to silver.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ladylynx on April 13, 2010, 03:41:02 pm
If she did have any children, you know "BIG" daddy would make sure they we're safe from harm. I don't think any one would be stupid enough to mess with Bran. He would take an interest in the children and make sure they had what ever they needed.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pfefferminztee on May 08, 2010, 07:51:08 am
Big daddy...  LOL
But yeah, he would. And there would be Adam, too. And not to forget Sam.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: hopeless1 on May 08, 2010, 01:03:03 pm
big daddy.  LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: alan on May 13, 2010, 11:50:40 am
Big daddy? Lol!!!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ironkitten on June 30, 2010, 04:05:33 pm
Big Daddy - Adam , LOL

I was wondering the same thing with the walking stick what if Mercy had twins, that might not apply just to sheep. :)

I was thinking reading through this thread I could see like I think someone else post the first one being like the coyoted allergic to silver. But what about the were that could talk to ghosts ? I think someone else on the first page - in the Ravens series in the first book there is a case of crossed whatever with the sorcereress and the man/warrior. They had kids that had all kind of traits and I don't think any of them were just straight human perse.

Also I know you guys have brought up the rape and aftermath....Ben definatly earned my respect  at the end of that, I thought he was a jerk, and then I thought WOW - he must really like Mercy better than I thought and he just went up in my opinion of the lad. I had kind of wondered why he hated women though so much though - makes sense.  I get totally drawn into characters as I am reading as well, but I have to say I can totally relate to Mercy. I can't wait to see what happens. The wedding is one of the things I am looking forward too as well.  bOuNcY
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pendle on July 06, 2010, 09:47:17 am
The wedding is one of the things I am looking forward too as well.  bOuNcY

Yes, but will Adam ask her first?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CarolKat on July 06, 2010, 09:54:36 am
He already did kindof. He gave her a month, she didn`t really argue.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Pendle on July 06, 2010, 10:02:37 am
He gave her month to move in with him.

Mercy may not act like a "real girl", but I think she'll make him ask. :D Could be funny, her forcing him down to bended knee. LOL
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CarolKat on July 06, 2010, 02:44:40 pm
From Silver Borne:
"One more month ," he said finally."And then they -- and Samuel, too -- will just have to get used to it."  His eyes, the color of bitter, dark choclate, were serious as he leaned forward. "And you will marry me."

I smiled, showing my teeth."Don't you mean,'Will you marry me?'"
I meant it to be funny, but his dark eyes brightened until little gold flecks were swimming in the darkness. " You had your chance to run, coyote.  It's too late now." He smiled. " Your mother is happy that she'll be able to use some of the stuff from your sister's wedding that wasn't."


That was the proposal!  ;D ;D LOL
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ironkitten on July 06, 2010, 03:35:25 pm
yep there it is - I think that is as good as it gets for asking :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ArtAngel on July 06, 2010, 04:31:04 pm
Haha! I forgot about that part. Love it!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rai79 on August 12, 2010, 05:31:44 pm
I know that for Charles he gained an ability for changing faster and easier (not necessarily with less pain) so. I wonder if Mercy's child(ren) might gain the ability to change like she does but into the werewolf form? If that was the case her daughter even with the moon might be able to have children of her own.  :-whistle
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 16, 2010, 03:36:01 pm
I can see it now... a whole new breed of were/walker kids walking(no pun intended) around. >D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: CarolKat on August 16, 2010, 04:23:24 pm
Oh the images in my brain!!!!! >D >D LOL LOL LOL
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: The Deposed King on August 16, 2010, 08:14:36 pm
I know that for Charles he gained an ability for changing faster and easier (not necessarily with less pain) so. I wonder if Mercy's child(ren) might gain the ability to change like she does but into the werewolf form? If that was the case her daughter even with the moon might be able to have children of her own.  :-whistle


Just so long as her watered down walker blood doesn't play out like Charles's mother.  Just enough to survive resisting 9 full moon's and then croaks from the strain.



The Deposed King
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Rai79 on August 19, 2010, 11:11:43 pm
I meant more along the lines of since Mercy's change is pretty much instantaneous and completely pain free and gentle would a werewolf female with mercy's ability to change be able to carry a child even with the full moon making her change? From my understanding it is the long painful and difficult change that makes them miscarry.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 12:17:35 pm
Remember that the child would be both Walker and Wolf so getting two different kinds of magic to help her. Blue Jay Women was the daughter of a med. man and in MC Mercy says her dad was a med. man
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on August 20, 2010, 03:28:11 pm
Mercy's dad was a medicine man? On what page exactly in MC is that stated? All I can find are references to him being a Walker and a rodeo rider bit nothing about him being a medicine man.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 04:08:14 pm
I'm not sure what page it is on but I think it was where she was telling Mac about herself.(I have the books on my kindle and the pages aren't the same as the books.)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Zealith on August 20, 2010, 04:33:06 pm
It was near the begining of MC I believe. She said that he had bragged to her mother that he (or maybe his family) had big medicine.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on August 20, 2010, 04:34:09 pm
Ok, thanks. I'll try looking there. :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 04:34:37 pm
I think it said he was a decendant of many med. men
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ElefiNecol on August 20, 2010, 04:45:04 pm
It's on page 40 of MC- "She told me that he claimed to come from a long line of medicine men,.."
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on August 20, 2010, 04:46:24 pm
Thank you, Elef!  I was about to ask if it was in the Canon/ID Cards.  So... child of medicine men doesn't mean he's one himself...
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 04:47:57 pm
Sorry, but Blue Jay women wasn't a Med. person either and thanks for flipping through all those pages to find it :)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ElefiNecol on August 20, 2010, 04:52:53 pm
Thank you, Elef!  I was about to ask if it was in the Canon/ID Cards.  So... child of medicine men doesn't mean he's one himself...
Not a problem. :)  It is indeed in the canon on his ID Card (http://www.hurog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3048.0).

It wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being "special" in some way, but Patty has kept him enough of a mystery I see it going either way.  Love it.

Sorry, but Blue Jay women wasn't a Med. person either and thanks for flipping through all those pages to find it :)

Didn't have to flip much; I searched an electronic version and checked the ID Card before checking in the book.  :D  The librarian in me.


Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: charmed on August 20, 2010, 04:55:23 pm
Thanks Elefi  :-LOVE :-LOVE Our Hurog Librarian.

So, back to the topic. lgw, in what way were you thinking that the possibility of Mercy's biological father being a medicine man might be relevant to Mercy being able to have children?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on August 20, 2010, 04:56:04 pm
Her father was, and she had some magic of her own.  Perhaps like Bran has the potential, but not training....
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 04:57:45 pm
Thank you Patti. I was saying that both Blue Jay woman and Mercy have the advantage of having med. men in their magic.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ElefiNecol on August 20, 2010, 05:05:54 pm
 :-*

Ah, so reading back it looks like the original train of thought is is that Mercy's potential children could inherit potential magic through her family tree that could help them carry to a baby to term?
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 20, 2010, 05:09:55 pm
Yep, you just gotta love science :P But I don't know if all that magic would agree with itself. With the whole walker non-magic deal :-\
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: amyroo145 on November 09, 2010, 04:57:49 pm
So I just finished reading all the books recently, and then went and read them all 2 more times.  Anyways, I'm new here and did look around to see if this has been mentioned, and I didn't see anything.... Just follow my thoughts. 

Mercy said she was on birth control in Iron Kissed.  Now depending on the type of birth control, time can negate its effectiveness if not taken everyday.  Now think of what happens in Silver Borne...Hmmm.  A month without taking any birth control?  Her and Adam at Warrens apartment...  Mercy could be pregnant in the next book.  Any thoughts?  I think that would be pretty awesome! :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on November 09, 2010, 05:34:19 pm
First off, welcome amyroo 145. And that would be neat, but I think Patty said that Mercy wouldn't get pregnany anytime soon. Good idea, I didn't even think of it
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kkat07 on November 09, 2010, 05:46:28 pm
Adam's overprotective as it is.  If Mercy were pregnant, he'd probably try to lock her in the house and put deadbolts and bodyguards on every entrance to keep her safe.   LOL At least until she shot him.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on November 09, 2010, 05:54:34 pm
 :D LOL :DEither that or she went crazy
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: amyroo145 on November 09, 2010, 05:55:19 pm
True  LOL
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on November 09, 2010, 09:32:10 pm
Yes, but for MERCY's body, it was only one day.  So no issue.
She WILL need to get her prescription refilled right away, but at the time of SB, no problem.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: amyroo145 on November 10, 2010, 12:05:40 am
Oh good point.  I didn't even think of that until you said it. Or is it her percieved amount of time?  Moot point considering Mrs. Briggs already said no pregnancy for awhile.  Fun to think about though. bOuNcY
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on November 10, 2010, 12:25:02 am
It's magic; it's twisting time; she has not aged the ensuing month.  Remember the classic stories of folks who go "Underhill" and think they've spent a day or a week, and come out to a decade, five, a century gone.  And they aged only the day or week.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Spryte on March 22, 2011, 01:12:05 pm
Of course, there was that scene in RM where someone says that they think Mercy and Adam will be taking home a great gift with them. And we haven't figured out what that's all about yet. Can't remember who said it or what page it's on though... I'll have to check when I get back to my room...

I don't think we'll see Mercy the Momma soon, but it is fun to try to see if we can fit it in with previous plots isn't it.  ;D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: DandelionWine on March 22, 2011, 06:55:44 pm
OK, I just read this whole topic, it was pretty far down on the queue so I hadn't seen it earlier but here's my wag on things.

First off, let me say that I doubt she's going to come back from RM preggers...  but I don't see a child (or children) as the end of adventure for Mercy and Adam.  There's that one Catherine Coulter romance/suspense series with the married FBI agents who still get into adventures.  They have at least one child and they have a nanny, which I'm sure Adam and Mercy could manage and make sure they keep him safe at home... but the FBI couple still get involved.  Maybe a submissive wolf who joins the pack, or even the human wife of one of the pack... I dunno but it seems to me that it can be done.

Aside from that, here's my thoughts on weres, walkers and pregnancy and all that jazz...

Point ONE.  In order for a human to be turned, they have to be savaged so extremely that their body is too weak to fight the “infection” on the were’s saliva.  A minor wound that leaves the body strong enough to fight the infection does not result in the human changing.

Point TWO.
  The only time a human woman carries a werewolf’s baby to term is if it doesn’t have the were gene, and so is completely human.

Point THREE.
  My interpretation is that if the fetus has the were gene, a human woman’s body sees it as alien, or an infection to be fought against much as the ‘germs’ from a not harsh-enough were attack on a human, and so the early spontaneous abortion (a.k.a. a miscarriage)… much the way a pregnancy ends when there is a genetic flaw that the mother’s body can react to does.  To me, that means it’s not got anything to do with the fetus changing in the womb, which IMO is supported by point FOUR.

Point FOUR.
  A werewolf’s change is painful, violent and harsh.  Eentire muscles and bones re-align and readjust, probably also internal organs moving around to suit a wolf’s body instead of a human one.  THIS in my opinion is what causes a female were to lose her child, it’s the violence of her change, not the fetus’s.

Point FIVE.
  Charles’ mother Blue Jay Woman was able to carry him to term because he had the were gene and so did she, so her body saw the fetus as ‘normal’ and she had enough magic to NOT change with the moon.  Avoiding that violent change assured the survival of her baby, but also weakened her to the point that the birth was too much for her.

Point SIX.
  Mercy doesn’t have the were gene.  That probably means she is no more or less able to carry Adam’s babies than any other human woman.

Point SEVEN.
  Mercy has magic in unknown quantities and of unknown varieties which may cancel out Point SIX.  (River Marked Spoiler) She’s Coyote's child and is quite possibly holding a wildcard (or she IS a wildcard)

Point EIGHT.
  (River Marked Spoiler) Adam gained some attention from “Wolf” in River Marked.  Wolf got mad at him for nipping him and punished him, but that doesn’t mean he’s going to stay mad.  I’m thinking it was Raven who said that Wolf doesn’t hold a grudge the way Owl did, so maybe if Wolf returns after his sacrifice, he’ll bestow some blessing on Adam.  Not sure why he would, but why not?  How’s that for another wild card?

Point NINE.
  All this is my opinion and conjecture, and may be totally off the wall wrong!
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on March 22, 2011, 07:09:18 pm
Nice summary, DW.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on March 23, 2011, 11:54:16 am
And it has some very good points
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: wiccanmoonchild on June 05, 2011, 03:53:29 pm
I think that the longer we take the journey with Mercy, the more we are going to see that is not "the norm" with her, all of which will lead to her being able to carry Adams child....

 :P

Wiccan
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on June 06, 2011, 04:04:58 am
She trys to be normal 9) Somehow I don't think coyotes are supposed to be , they adapt yes, but look what happened after Mercy tried to be "normal" . Fea, vamps, wolves, walkers, and humans are all thrown into the mix.

"There is no such thing as normal. What one person considers normal, another considers odd. Who is in charge of what normal is or is not?" (edited by mod -- Midangel)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Midangel on August 17, 2011, 01:57:06 pm
Graywolf, please refrain from insults to other members when engaging in posts. On Hurog, when we debate, we do it politely. Name calling will not be tolerated.

Midangel,
Global Moderator.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: little gray wolf on August 17, 2011, 02:36:36 pm
insult was not ment and I appologize if any was infered
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Moonbeam on September 15, 2012, 02:07:42 am
Point FIVE.[/u][/b]  Charles’ mother Blue Jay Woman was able to carry him to term because he had the were gene and so did she, so her body saw the fetus as ‘normal’ and she had enough magic to NOT change with the moon.  Avoiding that violent change assured the survival of her baby, but also weakened her to the point that the birth was too much for her.
Reading this gave me a sudden idea.

Blue Jay Woman was too weakened to give birth successfully after too many months of staving off the moon change, but what would have happened if she'd given birth earlier than normal? Maybe she could have been just strong enough to make it through with a premature child? I think of this because, while back 100 or so years ago, a baby that is too premature could not have survived... but nowadays medical technology might be able to save a preemie were-baby.

I think of this because of... (Fair Games spoiler alert) Anna and Charles's conversation in Fair Game, where Anna tries really hard to think of ways that she and Charles could safely have offspring. Personally, I think that her idea of staying in wolf form the entire time is worth merit; but Charles's previous experience with a female were who did that is likely to prevent him from allowing that. Trying to stay human just barely long enough for a preemie baby to survive may be another option, but it seems really risky for both mother and child (as opposed to being risky for just the mother).

I don't know, medically speaking, how early of a birth is reasonable to expect that you could save the child if it is premature. I know one couple in real life whose daughter was born at 28 weeks, and she is doing fabulously now. But it was really touch and go for the first few months of her life. In fictional terms, I think a were-baby would have better chances of surviving outside the womb if not carried to term.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on September 15, 2012, 08:49:13 am
I agree with that last, Moonbeam, if the baby has got were genes through and through, with the "cut off a toe and it will grow back" persistence of health.  If the baby can breathe & take nourishment effectively, it might  survive from that short a pregnancy.

I have to admit, I hope strongly that somewhere down the road a human who loves a werewolf - perhaps a twin?  Or an adult daughter? will try being a host mother to baby/babies for a mated pair of werewolves, or simply for a female werewolf she loves, and bear what turns out to be the second known born werewolf baby.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: pcpoet on December 21, 2014, 10:33:08 pm
I JUST GOT DONE WATCHING A SHOW ON NETFLIX it was about the development of coy wolves in the united states. I was wondering if mercy ever had offspring weather they would be coy werewolves;
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: ironkitten on January 06, 2015, 03:27:48 pm
hmm interesting thought. A Coy werewolf? I will have to look into that. Personally we can try to logic this all out. I do think it would be possible that Mercy could carry out Adam's offspring, but that is up to the author. I used to play a genetics game called Pony Island. Where breeding and trying to get certain traits were sometimes just impossible. I tried to get pure bred with as little inbreeding and as many traits as I could get and ya - interesting combos. Plus I was looking at my two dogs and they are from a pure breed parents but the male shows more maltese traits and the female shows more s!*tzu. So I think Patty has a lot of room to play as it were if she decided to go down that road with mercy and adam. I even wonder if the kids would be like Mercy but possibly a little bigger than coyote and smaller than average were maybe and not bound by the moon or maybe the urge is there but can control it a bit more. Anyway just my thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: BillG on February 12, 2015, 05:38:05 am
So, could this be the children?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732657/Meet-coywolf-hybrid-wolf-coyote-taking-northeast-U-S.html
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: mellinatre on February 12, 2015, 10:07:08 am
so cool the pics of the coy wolf...they are so cute   :-LOVE and the info are so interesting so thanks for the link

Am I wrong in thinking that Sam and Bran seems to have always been pretty sure that Mercy is able to have any kind of baby?

For how I have read the books that sureness was the foundation of Samuel first infatuation with Mercy and Bran haven't ever denied that point...not even when it could have solved their problems in a less messy way

As how Bran is portraits book after book make me think that he would have stopped his son relationship talking frankly with him about how he was wrong in his assumptions if he wasn't pretty sure himself that Mercy can have human/wolf/walker children without any kind of miscarriage...if he was like 50% unsure I think he would have explained the why Sam's grand scheme would have blow in his hands in the long run...but he never say anything against the probability that Sam's idea was right...even after all those years he haven't ever told Mercy that he disagree with Sam in that department...and in a way for me this is a signal by itself...for me if even Bran think that is actually possible that really means that it is a probably sure fact L.O.L.

Mostly I think that Mercy isn't yet ready to even try to have babies right now, the only time that she was asked about it she caused a wreck due to a panic attack L.O.L. that isn't very promising....and probably right now a new baby would be helpful for her pack relationships

I am talking exclusively about Adam's pack (we already know how much more she would be hated by the Marrok's one for that), and I am thinking that it would helping her because Adam's pack seems to have been really strong and connected when Christy was pregnant (yep all the good old memories)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Itsy-Cat on February 13, 2015, 08:11:07 am
I suspect that Bran didn't disagree with Samuel's logic/assumptions in thinking Mercy could have werewolf, walker or human children because Samuel actually knows a lot more about the medical stuff than Bran does. Sam's the one who's been a healer/doctor for over 1000 years after all, not Bran, (who gives the appearance of knowing everything but actually doesn't.)
So if Samuel, using his extensive knowledge, came to the conclusion that it was possible, I think Bran would have just figured that Samuel was the expert, (probably more of an expert in that stuff than anyone else in the world), and so, even though they couldn't be absolutely certain that he was correct, Samuel's judgement on whether it was possible would have been a better source of information on that than anyone else, including Bran.

And with the panic attack in Frost Burned, that Mercy had when Jesse asked about when Mercy and Adam would have a baby? I'm pretty sure that it was coincidental that the panic attack happened just when that question was asked. Didn't Mercy wonder about it later and think about how she actually quite liked the idea of a baby, so why did she have a panic attack? I think the panic attack was actually due to her connection to Adam and the pack, who'd all been taken down by those rogue Cantrip agents at about that sort of time. (Mercy just didn't realise that until later.)
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: mellinatre on February 13, 2015, 09:15:37 am
It could be, it could be..also if with Bran is actually difficult to really know how much he know, I am only sure that it can't be all a consequence of his press  LOL

I think that probably Coyote could be more informed than the wolves in this matter...and maybe also Gary?
We don't know how old is he but it seems to be pretty old and it can totally be that he had a family or children a long time ago

Yep the kidnapping was a pretty incentive but I have always read it like a 50-50 factor between the two, and I don't know, Mercy seems okay about the idea of children but haven't made me think that she is actually ready to have one...but that are my personal interpretations of the facts, so I can be totally wrong
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Itsy-Cat on February 13, 2015, 09:38:33 am
I'm not sure that Gary or Coyote would know about walker+werewolf children either though. Yes, they're both old (especially Coyote), but the walkers are Native American and the Werewolves are European, and so they would have only been able to come into contact with each other relatively recently, when the European supernaturals travelled to the US. And then the vampires started slaughtering the walkers, until there were very few left.
And the werewolves are very territorial, and would likely try to kill or run off any walkers they found in their territory (Mercy being the exception since she was given to the Marrok as a baby, then Adam was told to look out for her etc, before he claimed her as a mate, but even she had problems with a lot of werewolves not wanting her around and only very grudgingly accepting her existence).

So I'm not sure there ever would have been any previous walker/werewolf children, because of all that. (The two supernatural types not coming into contact except for in recent history, then the walker population being decimated, and then the werewolf territorial nature not accepting rival predators).
Which would mean that neither Gary or Coyote would likely know what the possible result of a werewolf+walker child might be.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on February 13, 2015, 12:44:51 pm
Strange, I was sure I'd posted on this.
I think that the attack on Adam and the pack was more likely the main cause of the panic attack, but Mercy's not ready to have a baby yet, for a variety of reasons, most involving supernatural/mundane politics and how their group keeps getting tangled up in them.

As for werewolves not interacting with Walkers much since they've only been on North America for about the past 300 years... well, remember  the Vikings (and I think some Italians?) have been visiting for many centuries before that.
Since -as Adam found out quite unpleasantly!- there is a Wolf just as there is a Coyote, and his direct children might have come in contact with (and possibly had magic that nullified/counteracted that of weres) werewolves before now, it is possible that one or more of the Primals know, or that some of the other Walkers know - but has anyone asked either?

In any case, the Samuel/Mercy question is now moot, and it's going to be some time - if ever - that we get an answer about what genetics Mercy & Adam's children might have.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: pcpoet on February 14, 2015, 09:57:31 am
I think that Patricia Briggs is going to have a pregnant mercy story line eventually and a story line where Anna and Charles adopt or use a surrogate to have children. for the mercy books there is the walking stick that makes lambs have twins and the fact that coyote said he taught it some new tricks.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Patti L. on February 14, 2015, 10:46:58 am
Isn't it fun to speculate?  :D
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: pcpoet on February 14, 2015, 12:56:39 pm
speculation is what keeps you sane waiting for the next book
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: mellinatre on February 14, 2015, 01:13:02 pm
Amen pcpoet  :D

speculations is life
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Kristenann on December 15, 2015, 07:48:20 pm
Mercy seems so confident, strong, brave, and moral, and I'm sure part of this was due to being raised by her foster parents and by her observing Bran, but I wonder if it's also due to her nature as Coyotes daughter. Her mother gave her up when she was born, yes because she was young and also because her daughter turned into a coyote pup and she thought she'd be better off with Bran's pack, but that had to have somehow affected Mercy as a child. Her mother visited, but I don't remember how long or if she ever stopped, just that she eventually got married and had children, who she didn't tell about Mercy until Mercy had no where to go and ended up on her doorstep, and then Mercy mentioned how she stopped shifting and changed other behaviors to fit more into her mothers perfect family, but even though they were nice she didn't feel like she was a part of it.

And all through Mercy's childhood, she had her foster parents who loved her, and she had Samuel, but who else? The women hated her, even wished her harm, and Leah the queen of the town would of killed her, for reasons a child like Mercy didn't understand, she also mentioned to Samuel how she wasn't a part of Bran's pack and how it was made cleared to her, she was an outsider. Then her foster parents died, her foster fathers suicide shortly after Christmas, and Bran was going to send her to her mother, but she wanted to stay and live there, then when she's 16 and thought she found a place with Samuel she realized he didn't really love her like she loved him, and was sent off to her mother when she became "inconvenient" after spending her whole life with the wolves.

Now she's with Adam's pack, some of which would still love to see her dead no matter what she's done or will do for them, and even tried kicking her out of the pack in a way and ruin her relationship with Adam. She's accepted if as part of accepting him, but again it isn't easy when she's reminded she isn't like them, and won't ever really fit it, not that she's been letting it bother her. But if something doesn't change with them, I find it sort of sad Mercy will be spending her life like that, either married and mated to Adam.
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: mellinatre on May 09, 2016, 03:28:36 am
Oh gosh what if Adam and Mercy will have the first FEMALE born werewolf???
till now I have always thought that they would have a litle boy when they finally will feel ready to add to their own family, mostly because female werewolves have so many problems already when they are turned young but that actually don't put aside the possibility that they could have a baby wolf-girl and that could be the start of a new set of problems.....

btw now that I think about it I can add this as one of the very few reasons that make Jesse choose to become a werewolf herself...like be strong enough to protect her little sister and things like that in a society that make things so hard for female werewolves
Title: Re: Mercy, Children, and Family Questions
Post by: Nille on June 06, 2016, 09:58:30 pm
What if Mercy and Adam have more than one child. Like then wolves, dogs, coyotes, and many others have many pups every time they get pregnant? That if Mercy get pregnant and instinctivt stay in Coyote form because the child/children isn't human? bOuNcY How will Adam pull it of? Saying Mercy is on Holiday?  LOL